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Forums > Social Discussion > Unrest in Tibet - Dalai Llama to resign?

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:I guess everybody has followed the 'recent news' (oxymoron) about the unrest in Tibet and the reaction of the Dalai Llama, better speaking his "threat" to step down as the 'Dalai Llama', if violent unrest continues in Tibet.

You reckon it's just a political bluff?

You reckon ppl will continue to worship him, even if he's not the 'Dalai Llama' but just an "ordinary man"?

You believe that there is "cultural genocide" committed by the Chinese in Tibet?

You think that sitting and meditating will lead to the "liberation" of Tibet at any stage?

I refrain from polling on this one but feel free to post your opinion.....


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted: Written by : yell fire


if the Chinese population was white, Christian and capitalist, would you feel differently?




That's no less that suggesting that I'm racist.

You will get no more discussion out of me for that.


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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by :Yell fire!


Rouge Dragon, once again, why are you singling out China for human rights abuses but ignoring abuses by western nations? Why does China need to be given a 'reward for good behavior', but countries such as the US and UK by default have a right to host the Olympics, despite dismal human rights records? I guess my real question is, if the Chinese population was white, Christian and capitalist, would you feel differently?



It's a good point, the US/UK record in the middle east is no better than Chinas in Tibet- and, to the extent that US/UK govts can 'justify' that record, equally the Chinese can do the same with Tibet.

I think that, from the perspective of the protesting Tibetans, they're just doing what is necessary to make their point, protect their culture, human rights and relatives- using the opportunity of the Olympics to attract the eyes of the world, at which, they are being very successful.

Just because the US/UK violate human rights, shouldn't detract from the Tibetans (and, by extension, their supporters, including westeners) efforts to protect theirs- after all, maybe if their efforts produce results, then, when it comes to the US or UK's next hosting of the olympics, there could be protests against their record.

But, overall, your quote-

 Written by :Yell fire!


I guess my real question is, if the Chinese population was white, Christian and capitalist, would you feel differently?



is, IMO, something to think about, because, if the US/UK are as guilty of human rights abuses as the Chinese, then, what could the difference be, other than race/political system?

It's a valid question.

What i've found from reading some of the views of Chinese people on various boards, is that their justifications of what's happened in Tibet, are disturbingly similar to those of our politicians supporting what's been done in the Middle East (eg- it's 'beneficial to them')


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


BurdaA
BurdaA

Sacrebleu
Location: At the quiet limit
Member Since: 20th Jul 2007
Total posts: 377
Posted:I enjoy slating the UKs human rights record as much as the next social malcontent, but comparing the two situations (Iraq & Tibet) IMO draws from the fundamental importance of both. Surely no-one is suggesting that genocide is acceptable, be it eastern or western.



I also feel that a who are we to say anything, were just as bad attitude probably contributes to why these kinds of atrocities are allowed to prevail. Both at home and abroad.



 Written by :Yell fire!



I guess my real question is, if the Chinese population was white, Christian and capitalist, would you feel differently?



Ummmm.. rhetorical?no. Nor do I condone the UK/USs occupation of Iraq or Guantanamo's apparent Geneva loophole.



As for the Olympics, Ive never really had enough interest to suppose one way or the other. In a way it shall be boycotted by me, in the same way all the previous have. Sorry, but athletics all strikes me as being a little boring. Although if I were to form an opinion, I would suggest that linking sport with human rights violations probably diminishes the worth of both.



IMHO


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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Hellooo..

for discussions concerning the Bejing 2008 Olympics, please refer to this thread.

Thanks


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Yellfire, just in case you have missed out this one

 Written by :FireTom


YellFire: There is nothing wrong with being a Marxist - it's just the conclusion this draws. Whilst some capitalists are willing to hush up the negative impact of a 'free' market, some marxists are ready to do the same.

- Even if the history of Tibet - as described - would be according to Parenti's views and
- even if the invasion of China liberated the Tibetan ppl.

it does NOT justify Chinas claim on Tibetan territory. To support that would subsequently mean that now the US has got a legal claim on Iraqi territory.

- The Tibetan ppl have a right to govern themselves, Tibet is NOT a province of China.

- To grant autonomy to Tibet does NOT automatically reinstall a Llama-regime as painted out by Parenti.

Fact is that there is a significant number of Tibetans highly unhappy with the Chinese regime and IF China would favour the liberation of Tibetans - or act in their very own interest - it would at least support an opinion poll of Tibetans or/ and grant them autonomy.

No?



the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by :BurdaA




I also feel that a ‘who are we to say anything, we’re just as bad’ attitude probably contributes to why these kinds of atrocities are allowed to prevail. Both at home and abroad.




That is a real danger- people using the 'hypocrisy get-out' to justify doing nothing.

However, from the perspective of the Chinese who support the occupation of Tibet, it does have to be addressed, cos, in their eyes, they're doing nothing that the West isn't, yet being condemned for it.

The good thing about this, is that there seems to be a lot of discussion (online) involving the Chinese.

For example, on sheffieldforum.co.uk (regional discussion board) we've got a group of Chinese students putting forward the reasons they support Chinas stance.

Which is a move forward, as the Chinese govt tend not to allow open dialogue, at least this discussion made possible by the internet, is a chance for both sides to better understand each other.

And one thing which is very clear, is that they (the Chinese) are very much asking why they're being condemned for doing what the West has done for decades and, continues to do to this day.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:are the UK/US forces in Iraq trying to bring about the destruction of Iraqi culture? I dont think they are, not to the extent that China is in Tibet. In Iraq its more a clear cut case of occupation of a territory to control the resources, and I think thats only part of the case in Tibet. I think in Tibet theres a more clear case of cultural genocide.

--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


Yell fire!
member
Location: London
Member Since: 16th May 2003
Total posts: 151
Posted:Pyrolific, assuming that the US and UK are violating human rights in the ME, and China is violating human rights in Tibet, your post seems to imply that it is less reprehensible to violate human rights for control of resources, and more reprehensible if cultural hegemony is involved.

I'm not really sure how that works, because in both cases innocent people are having their human rights violated, and the number of innocent people who have been killed in recent times is not even comparable.

Which brings me back to the same question: Is it because the US and UK are white, Christian and capitalist countries that their crimes against humanity are not condemned with as much passion on this predominantly white, Christian, capitalist forum as those of a racially, culturally and politically different nation?



FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:confused about the parallel discussions...

How can I justify a wrong with another wrong?

The UK and US are getting criticised. What's the deal? Is the Chinese government criticising them? Are they standing up for human rights?

A dialogue is good - only I wonder why dissidents are not allowed to take part...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:China to meet Dalai Lama envoys: reports

Chinese officials will meet representatives of the Dalai Lama, a state-run Xinhua news agency has reported, citing official sources.


"It is hoped that through contact and consultation, the Dalai side will take credible moves to stop activities aimed at splitting China, stop plotting and inciting violence and stop disrupting and sabotaging the Beijing Olympic Games so as to create conditions for talks."

A spokesman for the Dalai Lama, who lives in exile in India, said he had not received any communication from China about a meeting.

However the spokesman said the Dalai Lama welcomed Beijing's offer as 'a step in the right direction'.

"Only face-to-face meetings can lead to a resolution of the Tibetan issue," he said.

"His holiness, since March 10 when the (anti-Chinese) protests started, he had been making all efforts to reach out to China and the Chinese Government and he hopes the Tibetan issue can be resolved only through dialogue."


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


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