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Forums > Social Discussion > The value of HOP's stance on Fire Breathing

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Having been involved in the latest HOP fire breathing thread and, noticing a thread with an invite for HOPers to have a look at the the nunchucking scene (http://www.freestyleforum) I had a quick look and noticed they had a recent fire breathing thread.



http://www.freestyleforum.net/index.php?topic=3495.0



Following art a small selection of posts from the thread-



The first post did not make encouraging reading-



 Written by:



recentlly at a night at daves he finnally let me try and spit fire

much to everyons surprise ( myself included) i am actually realy good at spitng fire



the ball of flames re roughtly 3-4 metres long and like something outa a movie



i have catured videos of this but editins up to dave so hopefully u will get to see me spt fire like the red man himself shortly



matt chez have u sp;at fire yet dudeif not dont let the fear grip you

grip it by the balls and let the fire know that with out you fire is just a pretty colour



peace guys and enjoi





and



 Written by:





its safe as long as you pay attention to wind direction (i use he fire wand for guessin what direction the wind is goin) have a soaked rag in your free hand and watch the flames as they are produced



i have had two days proper practice and i have had two close calls



only common sense stod infront of me an a trip to the emergency room









However, things picked up with-



 Written by:





Firebreathing, IMO, is never truly safe. There is always a level of incidents that can occur.



If you get that free safety video from Home of Poi and watch it, you'll hear about the accident that pela (sp?) had, where there was no wind and just as she breathed, the wind kicked it right in her face. She inhaled fire and burnt out her lungs. Spent several months in the hospital, yada yada etc









 Written by: with link to HOP (ableit, mispelt





Here's the HOP topic



I'm not trying to scare you guys out of it, I just wanted to share this just for any consideration



Info gathered at HomeofPoi.cpm









 Written by:



Oops.. your right Mr. Joe. It tore her up something fierce though





Props on the link to home of poi, that's some GREAT info!









 Written by:





dude, i recon we need a whole thread about the dangers of firebreathing thanks to this. it was a really intresting read and i think we should be warning ppl of this here as well.









It's not the first time I've seen a thread on another board go from ignorance to reason, via links to HOP threads/resources on fire breathing.



But, in the light of the recent thread here, I thought it would be encouraging, especially for those who doubt the scope of education on this topic, to see that it can have an effect.



Also, just to give credit to people like Pele, who's not the only fire breather to have a really nasty accident, but is one of the few who turned that into an opportunity to help others avoid the same fate, by doing the work of writing it all up.



Also of course, to Malcolm for having the vision to see that an online board could make a difference and to all the other HOP-ers who've contributed to developing the resources on fire breathing/safety and spread the word about fire breathing.



A lot of people who may otherwise have had a go at fire-breathing, have, as a direct result of the HOP resources, chosen not to.



It's highly likely (IMO), that it has saved lives.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:Nice one OWD! hug smile x

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Thank you Dave.

hug


That actually left me speechless, a bit teary and even a little giggly (burnt out my lungs? Yes, they are metal now and I can breathe under water! I am bionic!!! wink )

But more, it left me speechless.

Thank you.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Nice one Dave, indeed smile



'n just for the records



 Written by: me, myself and FireTom

I certainly don't say: remove all informations.

(...)

I fully side AmaraO when she says something like: If someone is interested in firebreathing, point out the risks and dangers involved and direct him to a responsible individual in his area so he can receive (1on1) tuition.





Because hey, I'm all in for education - good thang... wink



Some more search results:



 Written by: Daniel on tribe.net

Defintely cool, I love what he does with the short blast and want to start that myself. Can I be a quick voice of reason here though? Several things the guy did were unsafe and contradict what I was taught. The most scary and the one I just gotta say something about involved using what appeared to be an audience member, when he blew one through their legs. That made me wince. It wouldn't take but a few audience members getting killed or injured for fire breathing to be on the cover of USA today, or Fox news screaming about how dangerous it is. From there it is a hop skip and and a juggle to having the legislature step in with a ban on public performances of fire breathing. I hope the guy was a fellow performer who pretended to be an audience member. Not trying to some across as a Mom here, but please don't involve the audience in fire breathing tricks for all our sakes.





There are voices of reason everywhere, some are clearer, some appear patronizing, some hit the nail on the head:



 Written by: juggling.org

Fire Eating and particularly Fire-Breathing is possibly the most dangerous and potentially injurious art to be found in circus, theatre and street performing. Experimenting without knowledge may be fatal and the first steps should be taken ONLY in the presence of an experienced person who fully understands the dangers.





 Written by: wikihow

Fire breathing. A beautiful art that can cause death from a rouge breeze. Fire breathers are artists- their blood, sweat, and tears go into making every performance their best, or they could literally go up in flames from one mistake. Primarily practiced years ago, it still pops up in the odd festival or carnival, and always met with curiosity. Understanding fire breathing is difficult, but doable. Attempting to breathe fire yourself without professional guidance is never to be attempted under any circumstances, no matter how many articles you've read or how knowledgeable you feel you are.

(...)

If this sounds like fun to you despite the dangers, find a professional and take lessons. Do not even consider a wadded up newspaper and mouthful of gasoline. It's dangerous, deadly and reckless to others. It's incredibly ignorant to do, and consider if it's worth a burned face for life. Fire breathing is the most dangerous of the fire arts, and even many professional fire handlers refrain from doing it.

(...)

# If you want to know more, talk to a professional. They won't always tell you how to do it yourself, since it is so very dangerous, but they will normally tell you general information and how much training they went through.

# If you really want to do fire breathing and are taking lessons, start with something less dangerous, don't expect to just start breathing flames immediately. Fire juggling, fire eating and fire dancing are all less dangerous and no less impressive than fire breathing.





 Written by: Howstuffworks

Jugglers, magicians, acrobats and sideshow performers have something in common -- they make astounding or difficult tricks look very easy. Fire breathers, who often specialize in one of these forms of entertainment, amaze people because they seem to exhale a plume of fire as though it were as easy as taking a breath.



But fire breathing is the most dangerous of all the fire arts. People who breathe fire professionally have to go to great lengths to keep themselves and their audiences safe. And since the process involves fire and flammable, toxic fuel, fire breathing accidents can be deadly.





 Written by: luxotica.com

Fire Eating and Fire Breathing are dangerous,... Much more so than playing with regular fire toys.



We do not advocate anyone try fire breathing or fire eating except after intense research and consideration. We recommend that you first read everything you can lay your hands on and then talk to experienced fire breathers / fire eaters.



Unlike other fire play, breathing fire and eating fire can have significant long term health risks. Your mouth is a very porous membrane, and if you do not use the proper tools, fuels and techniques you are risking your health.





I love the HoP position towards firebreathing and wish that all it's members would pull the same direction every time - how unlikely that sounds anyway...



Get the ubbidea wink

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1202270184)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Usually though, as in many of the examples above, the education is basically just a warning along the lines of 'fire breathing is really/the most dangerous...etc'.

Which is well meant, but unfortunatly, (IMO) can be almost totally innefective.

I say this because, many, many years ago, when I was first getting into juggling, a book called 'fire eating for the brain dead' caught my eye and I bought it.

The title set the tone, cos, as well as instructions on how to make a torch for fire eating and fire breathing and details of how to learn both- the book stressed repeatedly how very dangerous these were.

In fact it strongly advised against doing either.

But... I didn't really believe those warnings- so much of juggling type stuntery is laced with 'this is fantastically hard to do' (whilst the guy is doing eating an apple with 3 balls- which is not at all difficult) or that it's amazingly dangerous i.e. showmanship (or,less charitably, 'lies' smile ).

Luckily, I was busy enough learning other stuff, so I never got round to fire breathing (though Idid learn fire eating).

I think the HOP approach is so effective because, as well as the same kind of factual warnings that the book above had, it's got the personal experiences.

They can't be dismissed as easily as simply factual data about 'dangers', which can be fairly vague, especially in the context of an art form based on performance, showmanship and exageration.

But, when those warnings are coupled with real life accounts of how a fire breath went wrong, how that person ended up in hospital for months, how they came close to dying- it makes it a lot more real.

I was lucky not to get into fire-breathing- the warnings in that book did not get through to me.

But, if it had contained the same kind of true account of what had happened to someone like Pele, I think I would have taken a lot more heed.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Incidently FireTom, I know that education is not the only important thing- the points you make in your other thread are important too.

I'm not in charge of any events, but, if I were, like you I would have no problem with banning fire-breathing at them.

Where education telling how to fire-breath is concerened... I don't know, I can see the arguements both for and against, so I've no solid opinion on that.

For me, the most valuable educational stuff is the real-life accounts which show exactly what the consequences of fire-breathing can be- to me it's those which seem most effective at dissuading people from dabbling with fire-breathing (or at least it makes them think twice)


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:It's funny, before I joined Hop, I didn't really have an opinion on Fire Breathing..it was just something other people did!!

Now though, I get so angry about it. IT IS NOT WORTH RISKING YOUR HEALTH OVER.

I do get really really really annoyed now! Thank you HoP! ubblol


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Mr_Joe
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Mr_Joe

Part-time genius


Total posts: 59
Posted:I'd like to offer a personal thanks to all the people (notably Pele, and Doc Lightning) who have made a real effort to put together some quality resources that I can point people towards.

I'm also Mr Joe over on the freestyle nunchaku forum and I can't begin to tell you how much of a blessing it is to have these fabulous articles to link to, because they carry so much more weight than me just warning people by myself.

Thank you all so much hug

...and an extra one for Pele hug


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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I'd like to say that some of the links Tom put up only give the warning part, but the full articles actually do outline the issues more completely and link back to HoP.



I should know. I helped with a couple of them, esp the ones that would reach the most "laymen".


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: HOP

Total posts: 1002
Posted:Big hug to Pele and big hug to Doc Lightning.

HOP can be proud of also sending out over 25,000 of Pele's free safety DVD's, including heaps of free shipping, and over 100,000 downloads in the last 2 years, all of which we could have never done without the financial support from the community.

Thanks hug


"May your balls always burn"

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:I also fully appreciate the contribution of Pele and Doc to compile the informations about the topic. You both did a fabulous job and thanks Malcolm to make it available. hug



I can only hope that the new generation of firebreathers - who feel encouraged by the wooohooo of the audience, the huge ball of fire, the long history and tradition of firebreathing and the chance of surviving a serious accident deriving from misconduct and coincidence - will at least waste one thought on the major precautions to protect themselves and their audience and make it safe.



So far I couldn't notice this happening.



Which is why I'm very happy that NOT even ONE (of those attending the Juggling Convention here and now in Goa) is even inquiring for FB. Maybe it's due to the warnings and the negative stance of most other fireperformers against FB.



I don't know a single, responsible and experienced fireperformer who supports or even encourages firebreathing.



I put parts of the text above in bolds as to highlight what I regard as the essentials, not in order to throw it in other ppls faces.



Thanks to all hug

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1202440921)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:ditto Tom hug

Unfortunately there are alot of idiot fire spinners and breathers locally to me, and when I encounter them I always preach to them the hazards of fire breathing and mention Pele's story. I always refer them to check HoP for more information, let's hope we can all spread the word and save some lives hug


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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