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Forums > Social Discussion > I hate NY -- it's official.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Tonight, a good friend was coming in from New Orleans. He landed (amazingly on-time, seeing as how New York City airports account for 70-80% of all flight delays in the U.S.). It took him two hours to get his luggage, another hour to get to the city, and by the time he made it to Manhattan, it was just now... 2AM. And so my friend who I haven't seen in six months is here...and I can't see him.

New York is among the most densely populated cities in the world and when considering its size, Manhattan may be the most densely populated city in the world, period. 8 million people crammed into 23 square miles means that the infrastructure must be very advanced.

But... it's not. In fact, the infrastructure is not nearly up to the task. The subway system makes Delhi's look like a wonder of modern technology and organization. The MTA claims that about 96% of trains arrive on-time. But "on-time" means within 5 minutes of schedule, and given that the trains are scheduled to arrive every 6 minutes or less, that becomes meaningless. There are no "next train" signs and I've waited 20 minutes for a train at rush hour. The electrical network is not up to the task and, although summer temperatures here often top 100F, it's simply not designed well and there are brown-outs every summer. Two summers ago, parts of Queens and Brooklyn were without power for about a week because ConEdison couldn't get their [censored] together enough to fix the broken parts. Earlier this year, a ConEd steam pipe exploded, killing one and horribly burning (and maiming for life) a 19-year-old man driving a pick-up truck that was right over the site. The pipe had been installed in the '20's.

Tasks that are simple in other parts of the world, like crossing the street and mailing a letter can become enormously complex in New York City. And New York City is home to "special rules." You can't have in-sink garbage disposal in New York City. You can't make a right turn on a red light anywhere in the city. Nurses don't put in IV's in New York City (doctor's job to do that, which is absurd).

And there is no attempt to update the infrastructure. The first subway line to be built in SIXTY YEARS is finally under construction with a targed completion date of 2012. If it's running by 2020 I'll be shocked. And the design is awful and already obsolete and inadequate to the task because it was designed over 60 years back.

New Yorkers are fine to visitors in tourist areas, but even ordering a coffee elsewhere can be greeted with a curt and rude "I'm busy!" People don't do their jobs because they don't have to in many cases.

And then there's the cost of living. The infrastructure can't be fixed, the government tells us, because it costs too much. So then why is an apartment US$3000 for a teensy studio?

I think it may well be that New York City is simply not a feasable concept. It may be that in the United States, the government is incapable of providing enough infrastructure to support a city of this density and that it is economically unfeasable to live here or to run a business here. The cost of space is too high and there are so many delays, inconveniences, slowdowns, and errors that cost money in terms of man hours, physical damages, and time spent that many industries are already starting to move out of the city to cut costs. CNBC has moved to New Jersey. There's even talk of closing the New York Stock Exchange and replacing it with an electronic version, a floorless trading system like the Bond Market. Employers are tired of their employees being late to work due to train delays and traffic jams and the cost of running a skyscraper here gets prohibitive.

It's eaten away at me and now that I'm leaving, I no longer have to squash these feelings down and ignore them.

I hate this place. I can't wait to leave.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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polarity
SILVER Member since May 2005

polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet

Total posts: 1228
Posted:Don't ever go to Tokyo or you will hate it even more. I spent a weekend in Tokyo during my 6 months in Japan, came home and complained about everything. Especially the trains.

You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear

Total posts: 4693
Posted:you're complaining about not being able to drive through a red light?

silly tongue


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: polarity


Don't ever go to Tokyo or you will hate it even more. I spent a weekend in Tokyo during my 6 months in Japan, came home and complained about everything. Especially the trains.



I'm told that If you can read Japanese the trains in Tokyo are great. They tell you when they're coming, how long to the next stop...

...problem being that they have to pay people to stand on the platform and shove passengers into the train to fit them all.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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ACT
SILVER Member since Nov 2007

ACT

enthusiast
Location: I am in a world you do not wan...

Total posts: 318
Posted:NYC is great doc! It was the orginal home of CBGBs, the birthplace of punk! You guys have a statue of the real Balto in central park. Home of the UN and not to mention the ideal melting pot. Look it how many different races are in NY. Its beautiful!

But then again I dont have to live there and being I country girl I would never live in a city. So I do understand your fustrations with the time and travel.

All I can say is when your in San Fran let me know when you miss NYC. smile


Don't hate me because I am different, hate me because I still think I am better then you!

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: InsaneCthuluPosse



NYC is great doc! It was the orginal home of CBGBs, the birthplace of punk! You guys have a statue of the real Balto in central park. Home of the UN and not to mention the ideal melting pot. Look it how many different races are in NY. Its beautiful!





If you can get to any of it! And what melting pot? The ethnic enclaves are disappearing under the crushing weight of US$5000 rents in lower manhattan for a 1BR apt.



 Written by:

All I can say is when your in San Fran let me know when you miss NYC. smile

]



Not on your life. The last time I had to leave the Bay Area it felt like having my heart ripped out -- still beating -- and having it put in storage there.



San Francisco is the only place where I've truly felt "home." The general attitude of the place, the way that people relate to each-other, the way the government runs the place, all of it, suits me perfectly. Also, all my true friends are there. They're my family, the people I love, and the people I want to grow old with.



These last seven years that I've been gone it's felt like there's a hole in me where my heart is supposed to be. But there's no mystery to it. As the song says, "I lost my heart in San Francisco."



But when I went to interview at UCSF, I found my heart. It's still there. And it's waiting for my return. I was driving up 280 from SF international (after my flight had been, predictably, delayed for 3 hours on the ground in New York City due to excessive air traffic, as usual) when I came around that mountain and there was San Francisco in front of me. It had been six years since I'd last seen it.



Until that moment, I had said that I would have trouble choosing between NYC and SF. But right then and there, something deep inside me woke up and I had this overwhelming sensation: "Home."



I knew then and there that I had to go back. I would never be whole again if I didn't go back. The next day after my interview, I walked along the Embarcadero near Fisherman's Wharf and reveled in the palm trees, the bright sun, and the beauty that is the City by the Bay. I didn't know that I had the job yet, but it became obvious to me that I was coming back, one way or another, even if I had to give up medicine and become a garbage man.



Three weeks later, I got the job. It was the happiest day of my life.



People crowed at me that I'd miss Michigan when I left it. I've never felt a nanosecond of longing for the place. I like New York a hell of a lot more than I like Michigan, that's for sure. I'd rather live the rest of my life here than there.



And now they crow at me that I'll miss New York when I move back to San Francisco.



To them, I can only quote Herb Caen: "If I go to Heaven when I die, I'll look around and say: 'It ain't bad! But it ain't San Francisco!'"

EDITED_BY: Doc Lightning (1198342806)


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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ACT
SILVER Member since Nov 2007

ACT

enthusiast
Location: I am in a world you do not wan...

Total posts: 318
Posted:LOL thats how I felt about chicago. Sadly I am tied to PA. I cant move until my wee one is off to college. frown

But thats okay because my wee one means more to me then anywhere else on earth. smile


Don't hate me because I am different, hate me because I still think I am better then you!

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: InsaneCthuluPosse


LOL thats how I felt about chicago. Sadly I am tied to PA. I cant move until my wee one is off to college. frown




How old is your Wee One? Why can't you take him/her/it to Chicago? Schools in the Midwest are great...

If the "Wee one" is a teenager, then no, it's not fair to move. But if a baby, do it!


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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ACT
SILVER Member since Nov 2007

ACT

enthusiast
Location: I am in a world you do not wan...

Total posts: 318
Posted:Its a little more complicated then that. His dad and I are not together so I cant move unless his dad agrees or God drops a bus on his dad's head wink Its okay though it wouldnt be fair to move and only let him see his Dad a couple times a year. I know I wouldnt want that to happen to me. Dude is 6 now. He is in a good school.

Don't hate me because I am different, hate me because I still think I am better then you!

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polarity
SILVER Member since May 2005

polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet

Total posts: 1228
Posted:Hey, I can't read Japanese. You might need to know the kana for where you're going, but nearly everything on the Tokyo subway was in English too, and if it wasn't you just had to look at something in Japanese and someone random person would suddenly come over to help you out (got kind of weird after the first couple of times). Even if you're spending most of your time out in the countryside like I did, where they don't bother doing all the announcements and signs in English, they're done well enough that you know where you're going. I used the trains loads, and the only 2 mistakes I made were getting on a super express and a limited express (which stops at nearly everything), because they've got about 5 different services going the same way on each line.

You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I know someone who grew up in Tokyo and complains about it the same way you do NYC.

New Orleans was built in a cereal bowl with an ancient infastructure.

In fact, many US cities are old and incapable of holding the growing societies. It was a news special on CNN last month.
And why don't they update? Because the cost of moving entire cities of people to rip out and upgrade in the most efficient and cost effective manner is monumental. So they are left with patchwork and people will then complain about that. You can't have it both ways.

However, I also know city dwellers who have learned to leave early. I've been there many times, and I always drive, attempting to find a parking spot is far worse than not turning on a red (which is a rule in *many* cities, btw). Crossing the street, eh. I found it to be the same there as in downtown Toronto, Boston, San Fran, Seattle, LA, etc.. It all sucks when you are in a busy and congested city.
Garbage disposals? Is it really an issue?
It just seems...small Mike.

I find the number of homeless in a city with people who are capable of helping alarming (just as I do with LA). There is so much more, bigger and far more problematic that needs to be fixed.

Yes, I agree, the infrastructure needs to be more than patched. Storm drains, steam vents and the sewers in many cities need to be upgraded, but then can you complain when rents go up (because they will..supply and demand).

My friend died in a fire in Brooklyn living in a building that wasn't up to code. I do get what you are saying but seriously, is the grass always greener?

According to an international census report, it was Asian cities with a much more dense population/ sq miles. NYC didn't even make top ten. That was released on CNN two months ago if you want to look it up.

And melting pot? Where? The very statement insinuates a blending, a melting, of cultures. That doesn't exsist. Not when people close themselves off and create their own communities. No melting happens.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Pele,

The minor inconveniences build up. My point is that the costs of living in New York, both monetary and convenience-wise simply do not justify the benefits of city life.

But it goes deeper than that. New York City is supposed to be one of the U.S.'s most cherished possessions. What does it say about our country that it's a festering, filthy mess?

As for melting pots, I've never liked the idea. Melting pots are great in theory but the reality is that they wind up creating a homogenized mass where by the time you're at the sonsei stage (third-generation) everyone is the same, anyway.

New York was great once because it was a "Fruit Salad." It had a chunk of Chinatown here, some Koreatown there, some Little India over there, Little Italy way over *points* yonder, and the gayborhood, Chelsea, right there. Together, each enclave gave its own flavor without losing it into a soup of homogenization.

That's all disappearing now. As rents reach new, dizzying heights, realtors are smelling blood in the water. They're trying to turn Hell's Kitchen, known for its rich bohemian culture as a haven for actors and starving artists, into "Clinton," yet another upscale neighborhood of high-rise developments. Other ethnic enclaves no longer house those ethnicities, just a few token tourist establishments that the city sees fit to keep around to maintain its image.

The way it's being run is destroying the city. New, glittering towers are built on top of crumbling infrastructure. Insufficient funds are allotted to even maintain the existing infrastructure, let alone fix it.

I've never been to Tokyo, but I've been to London and Paris, two similarly dense cities, and as much as Londoners and Parisians complain, their infrastructure is far more up-to-date than ours. There is something cultural about them, something more collectivist, that allows this.

But I pale to think of the variety of catastrophic infrastructural failures that await New York's future.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Puk
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

Puk

Sweet talented nutter
Location: Brisbane Oz

Total posts: 2615
Posted:I hate the knicks always have.

that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:There is some melting in our society but I like to think of it more as a stew. The flavors blend but there are still whole pieces left that hold original form, taste, etc

And I am USAmerican stew personified


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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roarfire
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

roarfire

comfortably numb
Location: The countryside

Total posts: 2676
Posted:I dunno...Sex and the City made Manhattan look good. Kinda makes me want to go there tongue

.All things are beautiful if we take the time to look.

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Glåss
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:Doc: #"...live in New York city once, but leave before it makes you too old."
Don't forget to be upset by the rising price of food and the 2008 US recession which will hit the bankers and therefore NY.
Drew


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Kathain_Bowen


Kathain_Bowen

Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Total posts: 422
Posted: Written by: Glss


Doc: #"...live in New York city once, but leave before it makes you too old."
Don't forget to be upset by the rising price of food and the 2008 US recession which will hit the bankers and therefore NY.
Drew



ubblol

Does that mean I should only go in to visit, because I always end up hauling my carcass off the train when it gets back to commuterville with a ginormous headache and an awful case of "the tird?"


"So long and thanks for all the fish."

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