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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:Hello,

I was just wondering what would be the best way of making a handguard for a firesword? I thought about bending some metal from a bit of sheet metal down, so there is a hole in the middle the same diametre as my tube, then putting that over the tube and bolting it in, but it would be very hard/impossible to bend it down proply.

Any ideas?


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:yupp, one: gloves wink A handguard is not going to take you far (speaking of protection against the flame and heat). One bent out of a sheet of aluminum or other metals will provide substantial protection against the heat, but heat has the tendency to move up and around obstacles. By the time you hold your sword upside down, you will find that a guard is good to protect you from blows of other swords, but not as good from heat and flames.... ouch!!! blisters last you long time.

Good luck smile


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:Yes, I know that it does little for the flames and heat, but I don't want it for this, more to stop another sword from hitting your fingers, and just for looks really. People are reasured by the handguard.

Any ideas on how to attach and make one?


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ElectricBlue
GOLD Member since Feb 2002

ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra, Australia

Total posts: 810
Posted:A lot of people i know have used old hard disk platters. They seem to work quite well and they look really great too.

I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:ubblol get ya smile

take a look:

Non-Https Image Link


More easy: take a sheet of metal 10x2x0.5cm, round the edges, drill and cut the shape of the blade (or wherever the handguard is situated) in the centre, slip it over the blade/ handle and weld together.

Makes sense? smile


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:Yea, I talked to some metal workers about that idea Firetom, but they seemed to think it wouldn't work as the aliminium is too thin to connect to the steel proply.

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:oh, then use steel (on steel). It will bring the centrepoint of weight (dough, english is my 2nd lingo) of weight back towards your handle (and by that greatly improve the handling efforts when the sword is lit) - that or you use thicker aluminum. Personally I used a steel handguard, works more than fine. smile

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:How did you attach it? I'm using 10cm by 10cm steel 3mm thick.

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:3mm sounds kind-a thinnish to me, whereas on the other hand 10 by 10 rather bulky... I hope no rough or sharp edges?

Mine was steel, welded to steel. A few others have been chromed steel (like door handles). You will have to weld it, alternatively using at least 2 screws (or the handguard will start rattling, maybe already after the few first blows).

So IMO it's welding all the way. Certainly not a tough job for someone who knows what he's doing.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:It's steel, so definatly not going to bend. No rough or sharp edges, no. Hmm I think i'm going to try flanges you know? Seems like the easiest way - welding stuff is pricey!

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:hmm, flanges are round, or at least have a round hole in the centre - am I right?

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To me, a firesword is predominantly a sword, that has wick attached to it... like this:


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On this one the blade was put through and then the guard got forged, so it's not rattling around. It's a lot of effort, therefore I don't recommend it, really. Welding should be cheap, especially since you only need two or three spots to connect the guard to the blade. Shame on whoever charges you a small fortune for that.

But you can certainly use whatever and have it made to your personal preference - it's a free universe and nobody holds the ultimate truth. At least not to my present knowledge. wink smile

Good luck with your project. I will supply a picture of my present (lightweight) firesword as soon as I can.

Namaste


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:Flanges meaning a bit of metal with the inside bent down which you can then bolt to the tube.

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:I wouldn't advise bolting with (fire)swords, IF you want to make a quality sword shrug

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth, Australia

Total posts: 5814
Posted:If you weld combat style swords you can increase your chance of it going ping.

I would recommend training with each other lots to reduce the chance of mangling your hands. A mate just used a milo tin lid as his guard. ubblol ubblol :lol
He has used a bokken covered in shim to protect the wood and i guess its not about hard contact combat, its about style. With posing.


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted: Written by: FireTom


I wouldn't advise bolting with (fire)swords, IF you want to make a quality sword shrug



What about riviting, then wraping the grip over the top of the rivet heads?


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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth, Australia

Total posts: 5814
Posted: Written by: FireTom


I wouldn't advise bolting with (fire)swords, IF you want to make a quality sword shrug


Indeed. You need something that looks decent close up as well as at a distance as well as being functional.


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted: Written by: Rellizate


What about riviting, then wraping the grip over the top of the rivet heads?



Ducktape? wink Possible, but... Dunno what's wrong with welding, it's really only two points to weld (each side of the handguard touching the blade). Welding is just significantly better than riveting or bolting, or screwing - it's a durable connection between the two pieces...

Alternatives may serve you for the time being, just don't come back and complain that nobody told you.... rolleyes wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:What's wrong with welding is that it wouldn't work. I asked a metal worker. :P

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:umm as you're trying to weld aluminium to steel, which - of course - doesn't work any which way around. BUt how about using the same material on both, blade and guard?

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:Steel tubing?! That stuff is pricey and god damn heavy...

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth, Australia

Total posts: 5814
Posted:Welding quillions to the blade has caused many swords to break. Brazing/soldering them into place may be more effective. Soldering/brazing only melts the added metal, not the work piece.

If its a sword being used to hit other weapons repeatedly its different I am sure to a weapon that gets used as an occasional fireprop where you arent clashing with any degree of force. Welding may be fine for what is essentially a display peice, not a combat peice.


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:Hmm - there now we have a completely different understanding of what resembles a "sword" wink I connect the expression "sword" to something that has a "blade", whereas you might refer to something I would call a "fire-baton" (round and all the way covered with wick, in such a way that it will easily break when hitting another object, namely another "baton" or "sword").

Sorry for the confusion, which is subject and nature of verbal online description.

If you're looking for to make a "fire-baton", which is not designed to have contact with another hard object, you may proceed as you wish, as long as the wick doesn't come loose and at some stage flies off towards the audience or yourself.

But I see that you're referring to "steel tubing" (as in "pipe"?) - which would require the handguard be dun from steel only, not ...-tubing.

Gnor, we seem to have a different understanding of "welding" and how it's done. In my cases, blade and handle are one piece, the handguards either forged to the blade (as in above example) or welded (as in the example I will provide a.s.a. I have reasonable time to take pictures AND upload them).

Whilst welding and soldering are closely related to each other, I recommend welding as being the most suitable of all methods to join two metals together, withstanding significant blows of another (hard) object, because virtually the two pieces become one (whereas they are still having a weak point).

Please, proceed with what you intend to do and let us know the outcome of it. By no means I claim to have found the one-and-only solution to the problem, just am referring to my metal workers suggestions, procedures and personal experiences.

Fire-Safety should be above all and all I am trying to advocate is coming with the best of intentions, so shrug I'm trying to talk about solutions to, not the obstacles itself wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth, Australia

Total posts: 5814
Posted:We make combat weapons for frequent practice with. So they get alot of hits and being hit. In the past weopans that have been welded inevitably snap much sooner than other methods of seating the quillions. The blades are forged or laser cut to shape and the quillions steel or bronze. The bronze I guess cant be welded (no idea there). Our quillions are soldered/ brazed or seated using the forge. Every few years someone tries to weld the quillions on and again prove to us that its not the best idea for what we use them for.

The fire weapons I have, are simulated fighting swords modified to be fire swords, not scratch built to be fire weapons.




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Sword is the far right flame and the glaive second from right.

EDITED_BY: Gnor (1195379782)


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth, Australia

Total posts: 5814
Posted:Glaive, on a probably 4 ft haft

Non-Https Image Link



Sabre

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Non-Https Image Link


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:Hmm, instead of going for the real sword modified to be a firesword approach, I was just going for a steeltubing with wick all the way around it, then handhuard then grip. The whole thing being circular and having wooden dowel down the entire shaft (to make it ok for sparring).

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719

Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth, Australia

Total posts: 5814
Posted:Much easier to make. As long as you are happy to have a firesword that looks like a sword on fire from a small distance and not super sword pretty up close what the hell does it matter. Any sword I use will be looked at as a sword first, then a flamey thing, so the look and construction is important.



I thikn I said before about covering a bokken with kevlar after first covering the bokken to stop burning. I sugested schim, will report back when I know how its gone. Shim is available at our local craft shops and $6 will cover most bokkens. Bokkens have a nice basic shape to start with. Some of the local guys here have used "pipe swords" and to me thats what they look like. At least bokkens have a nicer shape and weighting and are relatively cheap

We also simply used a milo tin lid that I had.

EDITED_BY: Gnor (1195391734)


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:Lovely looking swords, Gnor. *mumbles "laser cut blades" and wiggles eyebrows* wink

I will keep you posted about the performance of my (welded) swords and am happy of any input and experience about this.

You seem to go into full battle mode with your swords, hey?


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth, Australia

Total posts: 5814
Posted:I havent used the fire weapons much. Its kinda a fun thing that I need to get one of my normal combatants on side to do. But may take them to spinning and play, as opposed to taking them to whomping to play. I also need to design a costume to wear that is appropriate and non burny. Im used to poi not staff so the flame works different to what I am used to.

We get a selection of spring steel blades laser cut. We used to forge most blades but the time factor is now a problem.

Its all about what you want out of the blade you are designing. As we come from swords first and any sword is a reflection on the bladesmith, for our use it has to be " authentic" up close as well. If you want a display peice that looks swordlike and you have no issues with it looking like historical ( duh . its on fire gnor;) ) the right look from a distance is more than enough. If your sword isnt going into regular combat welding might not be the same issue.

Mumbling and wiggling?..... meditate wink


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:ubblol But good point:

 Written by: Gnor

Its all about what you want out of the blade you are designing.



the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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