Forums > Advanced Staff moves > advanced staff juggling ... lets go mad !!

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entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:I think its time to restart the staff juggling thread in the advanced forum.

Since quite a few ideas were mentioned in the old thread that don`t seem to really fit in a beginners section.

I would really appreciate if people would post there ideas.
But do me a favor and make a distinction between claiming
to really have a move and random ideas.
it will help reduce misunderstandings
wink
And it will give us a better over view where people are.

To get you started :
I was playing around with a lot of 531522 variations

one is (i think) quite interesting
you know the one throw were you throw a staff as a waist cross and catch it with the other hand on the opposite side of the waist
use it as the 3
it is fun biggrin


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:Thanks for the compliments but its not as good as it sounds, there is patter, fire eating and fire breathing in there as well as throwing and catching 1,2&3 staffs, however for me its a big achievement and I hope to do it lots more times

Ethnobot, you make a good point about fire staff juggling, its a lots harder, there is the heat issue and if you are doing it at night which is more likely I guess, then its waaaaay harder. That's one of the reasons I try to be so clean when training because I know how hard it is at night.

The problem is made worse by the fact that most staff juggling patterns are easiest with your hands near the wicks, this give the extra leverage for the throw.

This is particularly relevant for backcrosses, club jugglers tell me they throw backcrosses from the very end of the club, if I tried that with a flaming staff it might burn a little...
I can easily get runs of 15-20 with 3 staff backcrosses in the gym but my hands drift way too close to the wicks for me to consider some serious training with them lit yet.

Regarding the number of catches that can be set as a good target, I think it varies on factor such
The type and number of props
The required result (fire/no-fire/performance/hobby/profession etc)
Individual preference
larger goals (improved concentration/more fun/hot chicks;))

having though about it a bit lalety i have decided to set varying targets in the hope that i get the tricks nice and clean whilst improving my stamina and concentration levels without getting to a point going backwards due to lack of focus or fatigue.
This seems easier said than done?!?!?!

The great Anthony gatto recently tweeted that his dad the Uber-great Nick Gatto said thirty clean catches was enough.
AG said he had no idea why 30 catches. But IMHO NG was possibly the best juggling skills coach that has ever lived so his advice has got to be considered.
Its more interesting when you think that AG performs with between 3 and 10 objects (I think?its very hard to count them!)

Anyway Im gonna aim for 50 then try and increase slowly


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borganique
borganique

member
Location: Cornwall
Member Since: 6th Jan 2006
Total posts: 154
Posted:so, anyone know where to source the full version of 'juggling, staff only'? 6:42 is the longest, and it says 'short version of collaboration' etc. as crimbo is coming it'd be nice to know smile

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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:if you can find the previous staff juggling thread in the beginners staff section....its in there
or try asking immakakode, he made the video and may have a link


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Konstantin
journeyman
Location: Vilnius
Member Since: 8th Jun 2007
Total posts: 66
Posted:I'm practicing about 3-5 mins of (hopefully) no drop non stop throwing, with using mostly normal cascade to improve endurance. Would be interesting to count throws/min amount in average some day

Only started working on backcrosses, not getting them solid for now. But I'm holding staff at about 1/3 length, elseway it touches ground or gets low moment if nearer to middle

Edit:
counted 60-80 throws per minute on normal cascade

EDITED_BY: Konstantin (1260381473)


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borganique
borganique

member
Location: Cornwall
Member Since: 6th Jan 2006
Total posts: 154
Posted:sweet.

backcrosses are hard, it hurts your wrist when the staff hits the ground, or your face.

i do 100 throws a min with clubs so that sounds about right


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Konstantin
journeyman
Location: Vilnius
Member Since: 8th Jun 2007
Total posts: 66
Posted:I've managed 100 with staffs today, it's possible with lowering height

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borganique
borganique

member
Location: Cornwall
Member Since: 6th Jan 2006
Total posts: 154
Posted:more than 3 staffs is painful

i set myself the goal of flashing five staffs this year and have already changed my mind and decided to get a solid 4 staff fountain.

4 staff shower absolutely destroys my shoulder, i can qualify it, but have absolutely no desire to due to pain.

5 staff (reverse casc) is a HUGE pattern with my 1m staffs, and heavy, even though my staffs are pretty light (thin aluminium, with 30cm wick on each end, and 2 inches of wood either end)
getting them all up is hard enough, let alone catching them.

i will get my 5 clubs much better before i attempt 5 staffs again.

happy ny all


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borganique
borganique

member
Location: Cornwall
Member Since: 6th Jan 2006
Total posts: 154
Posted:does anyone know where the line is between a 'staff' and a 'baton'?

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DaG
DaG

Golf buggie driving instructor
Location: Brisvegas
Member Since: 21st Jun 2005
Total posts: 156
Posted:Originally Posted By: borganiquedoes anyone know where the line is between a 'staff' and a 'baton'?




a leotard




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entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:I guess that makes me a batonist. Damn, at 1.6m I must have the freakin biggest baton in the world

'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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borganique
borganique

member
Location: Cornwall
Member Since: 6th Jan 2006
Total posts: 154
Posted:ha ha, i've worn one once, but its not talked about

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DaG
DaG

Golf buggie driving instructor
Location: Brisvegas
Member Since: 21st Jun 2005
Total posts: 156
Posted:sorry ethnogen, I guess you better go and find a band to juggle in front of.
and 1.6 for staff juggling? really? thats longer than my contact staff!!




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tim_marston
addict

Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:is any one else going to the ejc?

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Konstantin
journeyman
Location: Vilnius
Member Since: 8th Jun 2007
Total posts: 66
Posted:I am hoping to go, but not sure yet

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tim_marston
addict

Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:wicked,
anyone else????


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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:Conversation continued from here.....
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?comments=&v=110832845594230
br>
Hey Konstantin

Nice to hear back from you, its great that we can chat and inspire each other.

Apologies for the messy message this morning, I had a lot of work to do for my business and was trying to fit this in with watching and commenting on your video. You seemed to understand it all so thats good smile

Seb is a great guy and has helped me a lot in the short amounts of time I have spent with him, he is also a big inspiration as both a staff juggler and a more positive commentator on hop and other places.

I have been working on two whole new sections of staff juggling and some singles and double throwing and catching for a good year or two now.

The staff juggling section includes, multiplexes, two in one hand variations, cascades and backcrosses. All hopefully combined into a new routine.

The other triple staff section I have been working on is staff juggling patterns combined with foot catches and flick-ups in various combinations, this is not as progressed as the other juggling section as its harder to train and requires more energy, but I can still do some cool new stuff that seems to be new to the staff juggling scene.

I'm also working on singles and doubles staff foot and hand variations, but again this needs more work.

I had planned to get it all clean and then get a nice new video edited with some nice music etc, but I will try and film some stuff tomorrow and get it online for you.

here is a video explaining the basic of backcrosses, i think in the long term you will find it much better to throw over the arm rather than under it......but I may be wrong, see what you think



keeping your body straight with backcrosses is very difficult but it looks so much better and like you say the pattern is much more stable.

a final though is that from a performance point of view, stops are very important so if you can find some cool ways to stop then that's very useful.

Here is some more inspiration from one of the all time greats



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Konstantin
journeyman
Location: Vilnius
Member Since: 8th Jun 2007
Total posts: 66
Posted:Tim,

Your message was clear, don't worry. My english isn't good enough to spot any messiness anyway smile

Multiplexes are an interesting point. Both 2 staffs in one hand and same time throws with 1 staff in each. I am using simple cascade 2 staff multiplex to start juggling sometimes. These aren't hard themselfs. I've also tried to backcross it.
Another point is implementing it in the Juggling pattern itself.
As I see, the most important here, is how to catch 2 staffs(not same time) with 1 hand and make it comfortable to throw again.

And footwork. Yes, I tried it too. Worked on catching staff with
These're some thoughts, but I didn't do much work with foot and throwing back into cascade.

These're mostly thought and "wishlist" patterns for now. Wanted to get solid basics before doing more difficult stuff.

Stops must be very important and cool looking if you manage to emphasize them well. Didn't work in it yet. Maybe, I need lighter staffs. The ones on video are 450 or 500g weight 90cm long

I will try backcrosses over the arm next time, maybe it's really more comfortable. On the other hand, as it seems for me, most important to keep body straight and then the throw itself shouldn't be affected by arm's position. If you're juggling, your arm is moving and might be in different positions in different patterns when you decide to input a backcross.

AS I see, you got a similar picture. There're loads of patterns and ideas that requite more and more work on them.

Thanks for inspiration smile


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borganique
borganique

member
Location: Cornwall
Member Since: 6th Jan 2006
Total posts: 154
Posted:a multiplex i have used is:

(3 staffs)

(r hand) multiplex, crossing double, single to same hand
(l hand) shower pass
(r hand) recieves shower, catches single spin, sets up next multiplex, meanwhile..
(l hand) catches double

works well out of inwards sync butterfly (spinning)

i usually start with arms outward, as if i'm about to do reverse cascade

this runs, its a bit stop -- start, but hey.

i'll try and video it tomorrow.

recent goals for me - 1, just 1, shoulder roll within a pattern


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Konstantin
journeyman
Location: Vilnius
Member Since: 8th Jun 2007
Total posts: 66
Posted:Would be very interesting to see.
Did you have any success making a video already?


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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:hey guys
I've finally got round to filming some new tricks,


the footage isnt amazing and the tricks need cleaning up but i wanted to get something online to try and keep to momentum of this thing going.
feel free to comment, but if you say any thing bad i will make a small doll of you and poke pins in it wink


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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:must train harder....................



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tim_marston
addict

Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:im saving up for my leotard



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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:lovely multiplex in this one



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DaG
DaG

Golf buggie driving instructor
Location: Brisvegas
Member Since: 21st Jun 2005
Total posts: 156
Posted:wow tim you make back crosses look whhay too easy4



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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:thats 18 months of practsicing them every time i train and they still aint clean mad mad mad, but thanks dude, Im glad they look easy smile
EDITED_BY: tim_marston (1268989175)


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Konstantin
journeyman
Location: Vilnius
Member Since: 8th Jun 2007
Total posts: 66
Posted:18 months? wow. I don't train juggling itself that long smile
Well, I don't have stable backcrosses yet, but working on them(last half a year).

Btw, did you try adding some spin to them too? In your video it seemed you had enough time for a flourish similar to the ones in cascade

EDITED_BY: Konstantin (1268993313)


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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:Lol,

Unforutnaley backcrosses are very hard and I learn very slowly, still I'm very patient and I plan my training sessions in years not months.

Ive been staff juggling for about 4-5 years now, the first three years were all spent on the 2,3&4 staff shower and some variations of the 2&3 staff shower.
I then learnt the cascade from Bastl two years ago and have been working on that,the foot juggling, backcrosses, two in one hand variations and mutltiplexes as well as some new doubles throws and catches.

I put myself on a no-new trick ban. I will get these tricks a lot cleaner before allowing myself to train new tricks.

Everything I learn, I will perform on fire, at night, so it takes years to get it clean enough but for me that is the beauty of juggling both as a hobby and a performance art.

Yeah, the figure of eight is the next part of the plan for backcrosses, I can do them fairly easily with either my left or my right hand but doing them with both hands is waaaaaaay harder. I can also do them in a two in one hand backcross fountain pattern but its still very dodgy.

For now I'm content on getting the basic backcrossess a lot clean and more solid.

Good luck with the backcrosses dude, I look forward to seeing them clean wink

EDITED_BY: tim_marston (1269000621)


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Konstantin
journeyman
Location: Vilnius
Member Since: 8th Jun 2007
Total posts: 66
Posted:Thanks, good luck you too smile

How does the "two in one hand backcross fountain pattern" look like?


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NikoFLOW
newbie

Member Since: 10th Nov 2008
Total posts: 27
Posted:finally got some material on tape



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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:@k it looks like the two in one hand on my video, only the throws are from behind the back and the catches are in front of me, its also not very clean yet

@niko AWESOME WORK, loved evey minute of it well done dude

i do very little training with the shower and variations these days because of an injury, so its great to see people doing it, i love it.....

its really interesting to see the difference in the way your staffs fly to mine,

the shorter staffs spins a lot more, i can the slow the spins down but i chose not to becasue it suits my style, but your longer and heavier staffs have a really floaty look to them and it looks amazing,

do you guys perform?
with fire?
where are you from?
how long have you been juggling?
do you like Barry White?


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