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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Total posts: 3597
Posted:a pretty cool video, really makes you think.





O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted:that is a very sad ending. frown








I love the security guard in this one!

EDITED_BY: PK_ (1192207192)


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Total posts: 3597
Posted:....ya thats kinda the oppisite of reverse graffiti I couldnt even read what was written on the train. that happened fast, props for that.

O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:opposite of reverse graffiti? What actually is reverse graffiti? They both seemed to be doing the same thing to me; illegally marking property (even if the first guy was a wicked artist)

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:but the first guy was cleaning it off wink

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:But he wasn't cleaning graffiti off. He was still marking something which wasn't his to mark.

I mean, good statement to make about pollutants, but it's still graffiti.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Total posts: 3597
Posted:ya but is it? He's helping clean this tunnel, one could say that hes volunteering, just happens to be cleaning specific parts smile

The only "bad" thing i can see about the first video is that when the city came to wash it away, all that nastiness went down the drain and it would have been much greener (i know a lot fo you are into the whole green thing) to leave it up. Of course, the city "cant" leave that up because.......ummm.......it might offend someone?


O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:Is he really helping to clean the tunnel? Cleaning the tunnel is cleaning the tunnel.
Drawing in the dirt is like when you write "wash me" on the dirt on your parents' car. You're not cleaning the car; you're being a smartarse. Or making a statement as I interpret this guy as doing.

Graffiti and making statements aren't mutually exclusive. You can make statements with graffiti for sure. Don't make it any less illegal though.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:I can't see the video. frown

Rouge it could be seen as a novel new artistic effort. Without seeing it I can imagine a grafitti mural (legally done) with negative space artwork so there are 2 images quite cool. Bruge has no grafitti problem, they hace some set spaces for top graffitti art to be done, to set dimensions. I don't know the method for getting your work up.


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted: Written by: Rouge Dragon


Graffiti and making statements aren't mutually exclusive. You can make statements with graffiti for sure. Don't make it any less illegal though.



you seem to be saying that illegal = bad though, but i don't agree. the first guy made beautiful artwork without plastering paint all over everywhere, all it took to clean it off was a man with a hose, & i can't speak for the artist but i'm assuming that he knew this would happen and that part of his statement was - this environment is so horrible & polluted but no one will take responsibility for cleraning it until i put something clever there & then only your choice to destry it will make the environment better - but as i said, that's just my interpretation]

on the other hand, the second lot wrote some not very attractive & almost illegible writing on a train which probablo cost a lot of money and effort to clean off and had very littla artistic merit as far as i could see.

personally i don't believe that the law is sacred, i think that it's ok to challenge things especially like if the first guy, you're not causing criminal damage.

however, who's to say what has artistic merit? maybe if all artists had to clean up their own graffiti they'd chose to do something easily removable & with some kind of point like the first guy.

i think it's really sad that his amazing artwork was washed away all because the same law applies to both parties, he may have left his mark just like the train guys but i think we can all see that there's a massive difference between them

(notice how i didn't resort to using banksy as an example the whole way through - go me!...doh!)


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted: Written by: Tao Star


on the other hand, the second lot wrote some not very attractive & almost illegible writing on a train which probablo cost a lot of money and effort to clean off and had very littla artistic merit as far as i could see.



Those guys just dropped some serious throw-up in a serious fast time, those guys need respect for that because that isn't easy to do. As for illegible?.. might be to most people, but I can read Graf because I grew up with it.


As you bring up other mediums, Laser is a good clean medium.

My boy Solo One, pioneered the postal sticker tagging.
Solo One


Non-Https Image Link


I love Graf, but then that's probably because I grew up with it watching Solo One paint.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:Maybe I should explain that my family have been victims of graffiti and that's why I'm so strongly against it. It is one of those illegal things which are bad.

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted:victims of Graffiti Writers doing a throw-up or piece... or did some one just vandal some thing with paint?..

There are differences.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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squid
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

squid

sanguine
Location: sur

Total posts: 382
Posted:A victim of grafitti has far reaching implications. wink I mean, the art did not develop as art for art's sake. It was a byproduct initially of territorial markings by neighborhood youths designating boundaries.

Like PK_ I grew up with Grafitti; from tags to full blown pieces. It was just one spectrum of the life. I knew one neighborhood shop owner that got into arguments with the police because he were fine with letting kids bomb his back wall as long as they left out strict gangland symbols (crowns, 6pointed stars, etc) The cops were still arresting people because they saw it as a violation and an encouragement of the other parts of the life.

Part of the art of Grafitti is the impermanence. Its the process of doing it, because you know it isnt going to last. In the case of the first vid, you HOPE it isn't going to last. (think about that one. wink) There are taggers out there who have risen to prominence. The most famous of which were Jean Michel Basquiat and Keith Haring. Others have gone more commercial, and props to them for it. Hell, there is a Bronx artist, REV, who still commits bombs....but in steel. He builds illegal sculpture!! Its quite ingenious.

I could go on for hours on this subject. I have notebooks of studies from Graf to Lettrism; Illuminated manuscripts to Chinese character development to Arabic calligraphy and modern Arab artists.

And sure there is some illegality in it. That is where its roots began. Some continue, others diverge to more legal means.

@PK_: regarding the security guard.
What would you expect him to do in that situation? There were at least 20 individuals bombing the train. There's no telling if any of them still have ties to the life, but chances are at least one of them was armed. Even without a weapon, confronting a crew could have got him hurt. Smart man, in my opinion.


"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted: Written by: squid



@PK_: regarding the security guard.
What would you expect him to do in that situation? There were at least 20 individuals bombing the train. There's no telling if any of them still have ties to the life, but chances are at least one of them was armed. Even without a weapon, confronting a crew could have got him hurt. Smart man, in my opinion.



I'd have done the same too!.. so I agree.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

Total posts: 10530
Posted: Written by: Rouge Dragon


But he wasn't cleaning graffiti off. He was still marking something which wasn't his to mark.

I mean, good statement to make about pollutants, but it's still graffiti.



I disagree completley. His work clearly isn't permanent. He emphasised that with the fact that he got his stuff washed off. Without permanence, its nothing but a good statement, like you said.

smile


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted: Written by: PK_


victims of Graffiti Writers doing a throw-up or piece... or did some one just vandal some thing with paint?..

There are differences.



Sorry but to the person whose property it has been drawn on, there is no difference at all.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Delete

Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

Total posts: 10530
Posted:So if someone wrote "If only my wife was this dirty" on your car, would you push criminal charges?

Probably not.

So what's the difference with that, and what the reverse grafittist did, other than the proundness of it all?


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted: Written by: Rouge Dragon


 Written by: PK_


victims of Graffiti Writers doing a throw-up or piece... or did some one just vandal some thing with paint?..

There are differences.



Sorry but to the person whose property it has been drawn on, there is no difference at all.



Still as vague as a dead rat... who died from paint fumes in that tunnel in the first video.



confused


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted: Written by:

Those guys just dropped some serious throw-up in a serious fast time, those guys need respect for that because that isn't easy to do. As for illegible?.. might be to most people, but I can read Graf because I grew up with it.



true true - they've def got talent!

 Written by:

victims of Graffiti Writers doing a throw-up or piece... or did some one just vandal some thing with paint?..



yar that's exactly it! there's a difference between art & tagging, & each have their place i think. personally graffiti doesn't really bother me & i quite like a lot of it - even if it only shows off the skill of a person to reach to a stupidly impossible place, some of those guys are crazy!


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

Delete

Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:pk, how is what i said vague?
I can tell you from experience that the person whose property has been graffitied, it does not matter if it was a tag or a "piece." It's still the same cost to replace the fence. Yes, I said replace, not clean. Cos you can't clean treated pine.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Delete

PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted:no it seems that you are avoiding explaining your point fully, to a point where I can understand your point.

Tag, Piece, throw up, vandalism are all different things.

Why would you have a soft wood fence outside?... couldn't you have a normal fence.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

Delete

Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:normal fence? umm

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Delete

PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted:yes a normal fence.

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

Delete

squid
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

squid

sanguine
Location: sur

Total posts: 382
Posted:The two of you must be from different parts of the world. In Europe, fences tend to be of brick and mortar (more like low walls). In the US and Canada, where wood has traditionally been cheap and plentiful, fences are quite often made with slats of wood. The other type in the West is chain link fence (a diamond weave fence). To build a fence in a more solid material, such as stone, the cost is simply too high but for the frivolously rich.

"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow

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natasqi


natasqi

addict
Location: Perth

Total posts: 489
Posted:I like the first video... Because it is making an environmental statement, it's non-permanent, it isn't damaging property etc.

The second.. I can't say I've ever liked tags. I went to a 'graffitti competition' run by a youth organisation I'm in.. getting lots of youth, 'amateurs and professionals' (are there professional graffitti artists?) and making huge posters about the values of the organisation. Peace, humanity etc. And some were really really good. and other were just block letters that you couldn't read.

I hate riding in public transport that the windows and back of seats have been scratched and labeled.

I love huge murals on the side of buildings that have obviously been allowed to be done (usually at police youth centres and the like) but I don't see the point or artisticness (word? :P ) or beauty/practicalness etc of tagging.

My two cents...

And I don't believe the first video would be illegal yes? could you charge them with anything?


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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

Total posts: 10530
Posted: Written by: natasqi

are there professional graffitti artists



Yup. smile


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Invader Xan
SILVER Member since May 2005

Invader Xan

Your friendly neighbourhood mad scientist
Location: Over the hills and far away

Total posts: 479
Posted:IMO, there are two types of people who do graffiti.

1 - Vandals
The most common kind. These are the little dumbasses who think it's a good idea to deface peoples property for no good reason. The ones who scrawl the same stupid tag 500 times around certain London train lines, for instance. They suck.
With these people, I agree with Rouge -- defacing someone's fence is just pointless and stupid. As well as being bad manners. wink

2 - Artists
These people take unloved and ignored walls and spaces in cities and make them beautiful. Or make socio-political statements. One or the other. Hell, even a tag, if done properly, can be fantastic. Like on the South Bank where all the skaters hang out.
Graffiti "Art" lies in taking a space that normally would be ignored by everyone, and giving people a reason to look at it. Despite some of his more brazen efforts, Banksy is a classic example.

In some countries, street art is commonplace. Places in Brazil, Egypt, Cuba, Portugal...


As for the first video, even ignoring the statement and the concept, I don't think it could possibly be considered illegal. No permanent marks were left, and it actually got them to clean all of the crap off that tunnel.
Like I was saying about unloved spaces... smile


"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art."
--Konstantin Stanislavisky

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted: Written by: squid


The two of you must be from different parts of the world. In Europe, fences tend to be of brick and mortar (more like low walls). In the US and Canada, where wood has traditionally been cheap and plentiful, fences are quite often made with slats of wood. The other type in the West is chain link fence (a diamond weave fence). To build a fence in a more solid material, such as stone, the cost is simply too high but for the frivolously rich.



ah ok, thankyou squid! hug


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted:Still avoiding a response?,

If you had point to make rouge and some one doesn't doesn't understand what said point was and even told you so, you continue to ignore the issue and pass conversations to a fence that also in my part of the world sounded odd to use said wood type in an out door environment.


Or are you just hating on graffiti full stop...


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

Delete

Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:I don't see what response/issue I'm avoiding. I'm anti-graffiti and I don't think it should be glorified. I explained why by using my fence as an example and I thought I was being clear. Unless you know people who have had their property defaced and enjoyed it?

I think that squid explained that in some parts of the world wood is a legitimate material to make fences out of. Australia is one of these parts.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Delete

Page: 12

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