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Forums > Events, Performances and Gatherings > European Juggling Convention 2008 in Karsruhe (Germany)

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grald
grald

newbie
Location: frankfurt/germany
Member Since: 19th Nov 2004
Total posts: 22
Posted:hello,

the ejc will be in Karlruhe from the 2nd of august to 10th of august 2008.

This year, we want to make the fire-space more comfortable, so we would love to get some sugestions what poiple need.

this is the location:
http://www.google.de/maps?f=q&hl=de&...p;z=19&om=1
please post your ideas for decorations!

The city of Karlsruhe is concerned about any pollution by kerosene. Clean spinning will be an important topic at the fire-space.

thanks,
g


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Antti_Everything
Antti_Everything

addict
Location: Jrvenp, Finland
Member Since: 12th Aug 2003
Total posts: 446
Posted:Here's a group for EJC 2008 photos on Flickr.... I hope you can upload some of your photos there...... http://www.flickr.com/groups/800739@N25/

(2007 @ http://www.flickr.com/groups/420589@N25/)

I took loads of photos at EJC but won't have time to upload them yet.

Thanks all for a great convention.


Point your toes.

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Antti_Everything
Antti_Everything

addict
Location: Jrvenp, Finland
Member Since: 12th Aug 2003
Total posts: 446
Posted:I couldn't quite find a perfect version of this song but this one is kinda close... You'll know it if you were at the bar tent on saturday.... For me it's the EJC08 anthem now!!! smile

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=crKWk-Q2SNU


Point your toes.

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ma'tina
ma'tina

multiplex
Location: somewhere...
Member Since: 20th Mar 2005
Total posts: 611
Posted:@firetom: boom is biannual...just every second year.....and thats why i think same as you....buggars.......why not spain in the same year as boom is on!

apart from that:
thx to everyone i shared a moment with/ who made me smile....this ejc rocks....like so often...!
grouphug & kiss to everyone i met during this loverly crazy time

.....et merci manu:;):


- Ho Sa -
kisses & peace & love to beautiful madges
*rever le temps le prendre*

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nulleamai
nulleamai

member
Location: Napoli (Neaples)
Member Since: 21st Mar 2006
Total posts: 152
Posted:was great! The best convention that i seen!

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TheDee
newbie
Location: Dublin
Member Since: 29th May 2004
Total posts: 47
Posted: Written by :FireTom


I really have been devastated, when I heard that the EJA forgot to make preparations for a EJC DVD 2008... there will be NO DVD of the EJC 2008 eek

And unfortunately I am certain that the EJC 2008 is a pivoting point int this decade... Next year in Spain and the year after in Finland will not see as many visitors... the locations are too remote... shrug



Just a quick note of clarification on this. The EJA (European Juggling Association) provides support to EJC organisers in the way of grants, loans and guarantees and by promoting the convention and running preregistration. Things directly associated with the convention, such as deciding whether or not to make a DVD is entirely down to the festival organisers. So in this case it was the Karlsruhe team that made the decision.

I left the site yesterday afternoon (Monday) and it was looking in pretty good shape. Now if only more organisers could do what was done in Millstreet 06 and give all campers a rubbish bag, clean up would be a lot more pleasant!

To all those who attended and volunteered (by giving workshops, doing badge control, working in the bar, rubbish picking, registration etc) It was a pleasure working with ye! To those who didn't - please remember that the EJC is a festival run by jugglers for jugglers, and that by relying on volunteers we enable more people to come by keeping the costs down!

Dee


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Hersmunch
newbie

Member Since: 11th Jul 2008
Total posts: 3
Posted:smile nice to meet some people at the best festival i've been to...
think some of you might like this:
http://www.myspace.com/drwoggle


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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:EJC

The gala show. I had to drag myself to it, due to my friends performing in the open stage the same night. The queuing was stupid. Why let people in and then make them wait again, just so they can get literally crushed when entering the hall, letting them in one by one when the theartres internal doors were open would have made more sense.

The compere, I really didn't mind him. It wasn't great, his english was fairly repeitious and his jokes not so great. He was occassionally overly long on introducing the next act, but it was not so bad. The use of stage scenery was interesting and pretty well done. Thou most of the acts were a dissappointment. Tres'space and the acrobalance act were the only ones to tell a story, and even then the theme was similar. The acrobalance act was extremely well done thou, story and all, as well as breathtaking skills. There was no reason to break up tres-spaces two acts in my mind. If they had done them back to back I'd imagine they would have gotten a full standing ovation.

The anti-podist was allright. But a fairly weak, short act. Surely there are harder things to do with your feet than turning a large foam cylinder over? That wasn't really an ending. And the start was interesting. Walking on slowly to emphasize the feet is alright, but chalking them up at the same time? What does it really mean? Making the machanics of the act graceful is one thing but the act didn't really say much.

The belgian hip hop hat juggler shouldn't have been on that stage. His act is poorly made, non-technical and kinda sour. He's not 'hip hop' he can't 'breakdance' and his use of two different types of hat makes his act look stupid and a cop out.

And the physical comedy dancer trio were better dancers, but similarly, their dance hadn't moved on from the 90's. Plus I thought they were going to kill one of their members when they did the back somersault. I probably would have enjoyed the act in another setting, if I knew all the song references, but it was a low skill act for a juggling convention stage. I was quite convinced that it was going to turn to acrobatics but when it didn't, it was dissapointing.

Carlos Muniz and friend, wes peden, and the belgian trampolinists, I was just getting into their acts when they stopped. Far to short for all of them i felt, they had more to give / do on stage before it was really an act. But otherwise they were good.

The Russian ball juggler at the start was good, excellent presentation. The one at the end, technically good, but with a lot of faffing around with grinds and dance such like that we can see that french ring guy doing much much much better. he should stick to the flats and pancakes I think.

William Weii ling was a bit of a downer at the end. He didn't really make his big tricks and having seen his act before, I was kinda bored to watch it again. There was no character or story or any reason to watch it again, since I don't do diabolo. He didn't even do four on stage which I thought quite unusual.

Oh yeah and obviously get the shoe were amazing and probably should have closed the show. Considering that jochen was walking around in a neck brace the day before, even more amazing.

Oh and thomas dietz. I quite enjoyed the conceit of the juggling computer game. The routine needs work and after you pull off your clothes to reveal a superman outfit, you definately shouldn't drop afterwards. But it was enjoyable to see hard new school tricks on stage.


As for the rest of the stages, mostly beset by incredibly bad comperes and acts. The only two reasonable ones were luke burrage and luke wilson and luke burrage sometimes went on a little. Otherwise thou, the good acts were spread very thin, sometimes there was only one good act in a show and two alright ones, usually made worse by extreme tent heat, and wondering if the other show was better.

The chapter two stage at the start was pretty dull. The first three who had been working on routines were the only interesting ones. Otherwise it just seemed like jugglers porn. Thou marco paoletti and stefan sing had some incredibly moments it just went on for far to long. And couldn't really overcome the soreness of my butt on the ground and how uncomfortably hot it was. After marco paoletti's sailor bounce juggling act, I couldn't really be bothered to watch more of his stuff. It might be that I just didn't get it, but the presentation really made it very boring. Considering I really liked his act at 531, I was dissappointed.

I think I could compile an accurate and complete list of what not to do in act if i had watched all the stages.


Further to that, the fire show organisation was very bad. I'm surprised they managed to get a microphone for the 'gala' show. The use of the firemen, cranes and the actually quite good choreography of the mass burn were the only things that saved it. The compere was extremely bad, the acts mostly improvised and uninteresting. Or without much energy and lacking in skill. Of the one open stage I saw, it's presentation was beset by childish sound problems and the worse putting your friends in prime position stuff i have ever seen. That was enough to make me withdraw from the final 'gala' fire show. Why call it a gala show then give the performers no incentive to perform? The real gala performers would have gotten at least free entry to the convention. It was really an insult to call that a 'gala' fireshow. Yeah sure, fire performers will work for free. And people wonder why all the best fire spinners were sitting on the sidelines saying at the end of each new act: "And people wonder why fire performers get no respect...." le sigh.

I was expecting people to come with the mindset that this is the EJC! The biggest, best juggling convention in the world. Everybody was there, except durbs, and it truly should be the place to only show the finest acts. But instead anybody and their slightly mentally subpar cousin could get on stage. The EJC is not the place for your third performance EVER.


So that was dissappointing.

Plus it was too hot everywhere and hard to practise. I get the feeling I could have practised much better at the much hotter athens venue, due to the AC. The gym was stifling almost all the time, I had to become like a tennis player, wiping my face on my towel every few minutes. To be fair that did make me feel slightly hardcore, but also really like a disgusting overly sweaty person.

But otherwise, really good organisation, amazing place, space and people. NIMI the TREE STATUE! ZOMG! but let down by poop shows. Next time, please, less shows, better quality, less missing out for everyone.

Anyway.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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PyroWill
PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines
Member Since: 4th Aug 2004
Total posts: 4437
Posted:Whoa, and on that note I'm late for work wink

I'll do an overall assessment later on


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Meg: Hard to fullfill your expectations I suppose. Maybe next time on a 5.000 (+) event YOU organize the firepit? Let me tell you that your post (to me) deflects a pinhole/fisheye view on the event and what it's been about. But wtf cares.

Will: So that's been you, whipcracking? TeeHee, I saw you guys a few times but been busy strolling about and soaking this "mess" up.

Pete, Pink, Ma'tina, Will, Bovril, Chutney: hug next time... errm... how 'bout InJuCo? wink Jus kiddn...

Okay, it's not been the EJA - but it might not be too late however. There is a lot of material on YouTube and maybe there will be a DVD, but it certainly won't be a comprehensive one.

Anyway, it's been a great convention. Heeps of workshops (of which I missed most) and open stages (of which I missed two). I thought organisation has been great overall and most got their needs served.

Can't say much about the Gala show except for: I lost the ticket... So whoever performed whatever there - I don't know anything about it.

Volunteering has been fun - highly recommend it to anyone. It's just an hour (a day if you like) - but you will meet many people, see a lot of things and connect to the event much tighter. But you wouldn't have to volunteer 'officially' - it's often enough to keep an open eye, walk about and 'do what is necessary in that moment'. Even if nobody registers your name - and maybe nobody will ever notice your effort at all: It'll make you feel good about yourself and that is far beyond any recognition from outside.

I loved the Open Stages, missed the Renegade show - but telling from the ammount of broken bottles the morning after I would have left soon any which way.

Firepit: Again, some of the people performing there have been amazing. Maybe not best (technical) spinning ever, but great creativity and merging of different elements. That one show in the 30s style - how hillarious was that to combine firespinning and variet/ theatre?

Again: MEGA- hug to Doro and G... must have been an awful lot of work for you guys and a lot of stress, being 'responsible' all this time. Great work.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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ma'tina
ma'tina

multiplex
Location: somewhere...
Member Since: 20th Mar 2005
Total posts: 611
Posted:"That one show in the 30s style - how hillarious was that to combine firespinning and variet/ theatre?"

i loved that one as well.....think it was francois & doro....or someone else;)

wonderful convention - wonderful experience again....cant wait for next year*


- Ho Sa -
kisses & peace & love to beautiful madges
*rever le temps le prendre*

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joshgomera
joshgomera

member
Location: here
Member Since: 30th Oct 2005
Total posts: 155
Posted:MCP:

how it came..that all that great fire performers..did not perform..i don-t know..there was a problem with the fire orga..
tell me..!
cause i know, there where a lot..that performt as well all fire open stages

like ronan, Josh (without valerie), cyrill, flame oz,mists,olive,annti,sebsatian
a.s.o.

i missed it!! but also thomas from sweden, yuta ,dai a.o. performt- so there was a way

i never saw you at the fire space..i -ve deep respect for your performing,your influence and pushing stuff technical world...so why not??


is this only a problem of the organizers ?? don-t think so
it-s also a responsibility of that great performers to show waht is possible, and i know they know you all

most acts i liked, cause there was a story telling, a show behind, sure 1-2-3 acts more of these cracks would be nice
yes some where basics-
how it came ??

hug josh


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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:thanks for the in depth if a little scathing review, Meg! for chumps that have never made it to the EJC, it's all we's got. Also appreciate the emphasis on a storyline - man cannot abide by air, water and technical skills alone.

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Noelski
member

Member Since: 23rd Dec 2005
Total posts: 129
Posted:hmm.

Gala Show-- I also lost my ticket but its been fun to piece together what happened from other people.

Open Stages- I liked frida's act, with the three ball cascade through the legs and body. i moderately enjoyed marco's act with the metrenome, where he increased its tempo, it did drag on a bit long in an arty kind of way but such a suddle idea.

I was really impressed with sebastian's staff performance, he had comedy with breaking staffs and all sorts of neat ideas for comedy with his staffs, then he ripped it pretty hard with staff juggling, with minimal drops.

I also was happy i lost my gala ticket cause I got t"Soul Sticks" now.
There was some lush steve passing and some really cool angel roll turning passing bits. It is always amazing see super tall josh stick his really long leg in the air and foot juggle...

I really liked wes pedens improv jam on the first night, he nailed so many insane tricks and the clubs were caught upsideown side ways adn he kept a run for about 45 seconds...wasn't a performance, but was good.

Fire Space:
Well the chill area was really nice, I felt a little hassled by the fire saftey areas, and they had this short fence surrounding the area that I kept falling over all the time...

The fire open stage was....good, was nice to see so many people spinning from all over the world. I was sad when meg and hamish dropped out, I wanted to heckle!!

Main fire show,

I couldn't stand the announcer before the fire stag started, she kept repeating everything over the loud speaker, was getting a little agro.

The MC was pretty bad, she made up some really bad stuff about our group improv. also at the end we were trying to pitch for some free beer at least since we didn't get paid or even a free ticket and the announcer girl says, "no we can't get a free beer would you like a sip of mine" ---I almost kicked the beer outta her hands.

but despite all of that the big burn was nice and it was hilarious to see Dai get sparyed by the hose.

All in all I had a grand time, loads of practice and meeting tons of really swell people.

N


I liked flame oz's club spinning bit, which I'd seen but was still great.

Anti was Anti, good....making lots of funny faces.

I really like some of the partner work in dualuz.


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Lucy_DeLunatic
Lucy_DeLunatic

stranger

Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 16
Posted:Hey all.

As far as i knew, the EJC organizers didnt give the Fireshows any Gala-Stat at all: No benefits for the performes, no Benefits for the helpers.
According to the guys who organized the Firespace they had a real hard time during the preparation period to push the firespace through at all.

I think it was pretty amazing what these guys managed out within this time with the volunteering help they had.
Its always easy to sit next to it, watching, doing nothing and complaining about thinks u didnt like, instead of taking responsibillity and improving things, to make it to an event u like as well.

I will hopefully see you, Meg, at the next EJC in the preparing orgateam, I think u have good ideas, you should also bring them to reality. Might be a better way to create something then withdrawing from the show without any reasons and complaining after. We would have been actually very happy to get any help during the preparation for the big fireshow. That we were so busy with that might also be a reason, that my MCing was so bad, I didnt had any time at all to prepare that.

To be honest, I was a bit shocked again, that people, when u meet them in personally smile at you and pretend to be nice and friendly, and then u find out afterwards, that they liked to kick ya, thanx Noelski. You could have talked to me right away.
For your information: I just came back from the bar where I tried to get a case of beers for the performers and I failed. I even tried to get it for a cheaper price, but I didnt work out either. All they gave me was one single beer I offered you to share. Sorry for that, I wont do that again.

Ah ja, I am actually not an MC, I was just the only person who said yes to doing it.
That may explain why I wasnt that good. It was almost improvised either, and honestly, at least I enjoyed it.

For my experience, the EJC was a great week, with a whole lot of interesting things happening, and I am pretty happy that I was able to meet all you people there.

Its always nice to see people personaly and not only as a virtual bitsn bytes-producer.

Keep on burning.

Fabienne


The Burning Woman
Fire of the Scorch and
The Singe that Bleeds

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Yeah, it's always a great idea to try and make a good fire show with no backup/money and without the organisers really wanting one. That gives the impression that fire performers will do a great show for free. Obviously that's going to help madrid get some funding for their fireshow.

As for trying to get free beer for a show performers, that's kinda a bad idea, reducing all the work those performers and crew just did to the level of performing in front of a nightclub for entry and free drinks. (And they didn't even get entry) And everybody knows or should know, that performing for drinks is a good way to devalue fire performance in general, and take away income from professional fire performers ( in the monetary sense. )

As for Madrid, I don't think I'll go. It's fairly obvious to me now that I can't practise in hot and humid conditions. And as for organising a fireshow, that's surely an opportunity for a local to the region to gain experience, it's not for me to try and take that from them. If I wanted to organise an EJC fireshow that badly I'd campaign for the next to be decided location for the EJC to be Edinburgh.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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duvan
duvan

ancient oachkatzlschwoaf
Location: germany
Member Since: 13th Nov 2002
Total posts: 249
Posted:meg, to be honest I don't quite get your point. maybe that's because I am not that much into the scene as you are so maybe you can help me understanding you smile

as far as I know the fire spinning scene is rather young compared to the juggling scene. isn't it normal that "new" things never earn as much respect/money as the "oldern" arts in the first place? doesn't it always take some time to really establish something completely new?

firespinners obviously have to earn some more respect to get to the point where you (and me) would like them to be.
so is it better then to not do a fireshow at all? well I don't think so. but does complaining and doing nothing change anything about the current situation? I don't think so either.
I think the people from the EJC fire orga team did a good job considering the circumstances. no, it wasn't a perfect fire show, that's for sure, but it wasn't as bad as you portrayed it either. I pay them respect for what they've done.

so how would you change anything about the current situation? not performing at all? hoping that one day someone of the EJA wakes up screaming "HEUREKA! - from this day on fire spinners shall get loads of money every time they perform!" biggrin


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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:How many years do you need to make a good show? 5? 10? 15?

Why do you need to defend something that isn't good from criticism?

If I didn't say anything about it at all, it would be worse, because that would show that I just didn't care at all. That I'd given up on it.

If somebody gives you no money, no backing, no help, no microphone, no fuel, no free tickets etc etc, for a fireshow, does that not show that they don't care if they get a fireshow or not? That they don't give it any respect. That they expect fire performers to work for free. Is having an organiser for the fire stages some kind of concession so the spinners don't get rowdy? Some way to fob them off? Do they even want spinners there at all? Is it just a big joke to them, yeah we'll get loads of extra ticket sales by having a big fire show and lots of spinners will come, but we don't need to spend any money on it cos they'll perform for free. Awesome.

The performers in the gala show probably got free entry, flights, hotel or someplace to stay and maybe a fee for their performance. (Or some part of the above.) GALA fire performers? Nothing. Why call it a gala fire show? It would have been better to just call it the closing fire show. I might have taken part if that had been the case. And if the organiser of the fireshow hadn't asked us all to make a theme/connections between the acts.

Yeah, I'm sure performing in the fire show would have helped make it better. Maybe all the pro's should have done that, and then it would have been slightly better, and then we could all have another big free fireshow next year without the artists getting any benefits, and the year after that would be the same. That would be a good way to affect change. As would not saying anything bad about it.

If any of the spinners really wanted to show off badly enough, without a fire show, they could have done it on an open stage, and a few did. So I would not have minded having no fire show. one or two open stages would have been enough for me. And calling them an open stage is not an insult also.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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FireNix
FireNix

old hand
Location: India/Bristol
Member Since: 4th Apr 2001
Total posts: 904
Posted:Erm...
I wasnt there so am not going to praise or criticise.
I think there are some good points, but lets not just concentrate on negatives.
Im sure Lucy worked super hard and did a job that wasnt her speciality, becuase no-one else wanted it - she stepped upto the plate and then has been shot down - not really nice to hear, but I guess those watching dont know the story. Im sure its hard to hear others criticising on this thread when they could have directed there criticism directly to the EJC commitee at the event, they are obviously the ones that make the decisions and havent valued the FireShow.
In regards what is/nt given to performers. I can talk about the Irish and Slovenian EJC's where we organised the FireShows. We were given free tickets, but no fee - we didnt want one - this is a non-profit event run by and for jugglers. The wonderfull Helen at MillStreet actually offered us a nominal amount towards travel, if there was any money available from ticket sales - there was, we were given it. Other performers I know in the Gala stage were offered fee's (I dont know what they were), some took them, others didnt for the non-profit reason.
Its deffinately true that the stages are more 'recognised' and valued/respected than the Fire area. Im know the stages will give performers a free beer at least. But trying to organise this after the event - wont/didnt work.
You know me - I am usually the 1st to rally against shows for nothing attempts, but this is the EJC. It should be abit of an honour to perform there. Having said that you dont want to spend ages going to meetings/practices/training. We found this in Slovenia where we helped 'organise' the fire show many excellent performers didnt want to take part in an organised show and as such it became alot more ad hoc.
I think if youre not getting paid/free tickets you cant be expected to come to many rehersals or work extra hard on linking acts. Its not going to happen- it obviouly didnt. As a performer youre used to getting paid, your at the EJC to enjoy and maybe show your act with a minimum of time/effort. We tried to keep it as simple as possible at Ptuj and Millstreet - we got some excellent performers in a small, but I personally think nice show.
I do think theres a problem generally with the value given to Fire. From this thread seems it was undervalued in Germany. In Ireland it was more valued, in Slovenia - somewhere inbetween. As has been explained earlier in the thread this is mainly down to the commitee's roots (Helen in Irland is a fire spinner) and purhaps the experience of those that propose/are chosen to organise the Fire area and what budget they are given. I also have to say - im SURE the guys performing in the Gala show spend ALOT more time training than our 'best' fire performer and 95% of the people there are there for the jugglers NOT the FireShow - so its fair and right that 95% of the budget is spent on that.
Im sure that MANY people enjoyed the FireShow and Fire area, im also sure others were less impressed. It would be great if people had a contact within the EJC organising committee to pass on their postive/negative feedback to (can this be arranged Lucy?) rather than direct it here and for Lucy to take the flack (good on you Lucy - I know it can be hard). Hopefully this may help to have the Fire area better valued in the future and for us all to see as many of the wonderful performers within fire as were at the EJC.
Erm
Hope that helps


Feel the Flame
Phirenix

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Antti_Everything
Antti_Everything

addict
Location: Jrvenp, Finland
Member Since: 12th Aug 2003
Total posts: 446
Posted:I was contacted by G to perform in the fire gala but I said no since I couldn't even get the entrance fee for it. When in the festival I agreed to perform in the fire open stage since a lot of my friends asked me to do it. And I would've enjoyed it a lot if it wasn't so badly organized. I know how little money the fire organizers got for anything but my rant is about simple basic things with nothing to do with money.

1) You got to have a proper restricted backstage with someone keeping the outsiders away. Now I had to watch people walking past me, bumping into me and sitting in front of me while I was waiting to get on stage and trying to concentrate.

2) Get qualified people to press play for music. There's no excuse if you miss the cue the performer has given you. Especially if it's by 30 seconds.

3) The stage has to be a restricted area. Now there were random people walking on or across the stage while artists were performing.

4) Fire safety If there are no safety barriers between stage and audience then someone should at least control the safety somehow. Now there were people way too close to the fire spinners at the free spinning sessions. I had to go tell a family with 3 little kids to move who were just waiting to be lit on fire by a mob of fire hippies not in control of their fire toys.

5) Performers are not stage crew. If a performer asks for more candles on stage you dont tell him rudely to do it himself. Especially if the audience has arrived no performer should go on stage before their act.

6) The fuel was terrible. I know it was the official fire spinning fuel you guys use in Germany but it burns too hot. I demanded/was given the chance to try it out before my show and agreed to use it with no better options available. But still it was terrible and I hope you find better options in future. I burnt my hands with this fuel and it happened from the heat of the flames. I was fire spinning a lot in Spain before Germany and now in Singapore without any similar problems with local fuels.

7) The MC For your credit I have to say you werent the only one who sucked it mcing in EJC. 9/10 mcs are terrible at EJCs. If you are not an experienced mc then stick to the basics: Short introductions and other announcements and make people clap. Thats it. The shows are usually a few numbers too long anyway and a bad mc makes them feel twice as long. It is not your job to entertain people leave it to the artists.

I understand the conditions the fire organizers had to work in. So in a way I agree they did a good job. The venue for the free fire spinning was nice and people had fun. But when there are fire open stages and a closing fire show/gala we need to set the level way higher. There are certain standards for organizing the juggling open stages etc and organizing a fire open stage should reach the same standards. It is not enough anymore that everybody has fun. We need to take a big step towards professionalism.

And it is true what MCP says about working for free. I think the fire arts community is slowly reaching the level of being able to produce a top class fire gala. But these top performers need some money for it. If we keep working for free nothing will ever change. I mean not even getting an entrance fee is just ridiculous! The amount of spinners at EJCs keep growing year by year and the spinners bring a lot of money to the convention. But all of that money at the moment goes to the jugglers. I really hope that things will be different in the next EJC. I know they will be at the 2010 EJC in Finland as I will be in charge of the fire events and at the moment the fire gala will receive funding in the estimate of the convention budget.


Point your toes.

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Yuta
Yuta

member
Location: Japan Tokyo/Miyazaki
Member Since: 28th Feb 2004
Total posts: 138
Posted:First of all, thank you very much for making fire space, and fire show.

I can easily imagine that you had alot of things to do and you are stressed out now.
I, and most of people enjoyed it even it is still not perfectly organised, so thank you for your works!

If we could get payed and free beer, its great, but it is not important thing.
I thought EJC was the place where we share ideas, meet people, have fun and the most important thing is growing fire culture.
So, for my opinion, we should perform and watch each other, learn each other, and show what the fire spining is to jugglers, without thinking about money.

Compare with the culture of Juggling, fire spining is very very young and immatured.

So we should perform and show more jugglers to what fire spining is.
And we need to get more feedbacks from professional jugglers and other artists, but not only from fire spiners.
If we keep doing our best show, we will get more feedbacks and we can realise what we need.
Then fire spining will be an art which EJC think they should pay for.

Fire gala show was the biggest opportunity to show our culture to everybody, and to grow the fire culture.
So that was pitty we didn't have the best spinners at EJC.

I want to have more experience to make my show better than having money at the moment.
I think that fire culture is on the same position as me.

In a few years, I hope that fire culture reach higher level and get more financial help as well.

Anyway, that was great to see such talented performer at EJC.
When our friends perform at openstage or fire gala and got big applause, I was very happy and proud of them.
I felt like we were growing fire culter with all of us.

I like the fire & poi communities, and felt very happy and proud when WE perform and let people know our culture.

I dont know what I am writing now...

Anyway, thank you again all of organisers, I was very happy to be there and enjoyed.

MC was still great for me Fabienne, I can't to do that like you did anyway.
And people saying me Michael Jackson or Madonna after the show smile

And the best act was DAI.
We are all proud of his final act with fire fighter.
That was awsome !!


photos
http://www.flickr.com/photos/poicommunity/


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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:here're 2c from someone who wasn't there... tongue

Its a shame that once again, the organisers of the fire show have been given a raw deal from both performers and event organisers. the same thing happened at the bjc this year, and it resulted in a pretty average/poor show, which wasn't very well received by the general juggling public. argh.

There are a few things that each group needs to work on, IMO. And i'm probably as guilty of getting angry about it if its not to my liking, so i'm kind of telling myself too.

events organisers:
there are really professional fire performers and troupes, who train just as hard as those in the gala show*, and have a long history of performing quality shows that entertain people. If you want a great fire show at your event that people will come away from as impressed as they are from the Gala Show, book these people, but treat them professionally and at least sort them out free entry.
If you're happy with having an average fire show, with disgruntled performers and non-plussed audiences, keep going as you are.

Show organisers:
Try and persuade your event co-ordinator that a good fire show is beneficial to the event. and if it is an open stage make that clear too, don't call it a Gala show. If it IS a gala show, get your performers in early, but don't be surprised if the more professional shows won't come without at least entry and expenses. Try to get an MC and tech crew also in advance who you know for sure will do solid work (though well done to Fabienne for doing what sounded like a good job under bad circumstances). And make sure the safety is paramount - nothing like dubious fire safety to make the juggling public go 'f*cking fire spinning hippies'

Performers:
Generally the only thin i think people are doing wrong is bitching about it when it was obviously not given any opportunity to be a roaring success by the event organisers. they are the people who should be receiving nicely-worded suggestions about how the fire show could be improved, its really not productive/worth it to be saying nasty things in public about the show organisers. Who sound like they did ok under the circumstances smile


--------------

rob (firenix), i agree with all your points, except for one or two:
we don't train as hard? speak for yourself tongue
95% of people are there for the juggling - i think you underestimate the spinning community and those who appreciate a good fire show. its amazing on rec.juggling how. if there IS a good fire show, jugglers are very vocal in saying how much they liked it.
and 'do it for the love of the juggling community/festival'... I'll remember that next time i book any acts for PLAY - 'sorry guys, i can't even offer you free entry.' er. No.

Antti - you should let the fire space/show organisers know that, i reckon... and I really do think there have been some top quality fire shows - i'm particularly proud of the Ubereurope show, and te pooka's cabaret saute, Flame Oz have an awesome show when its all 7 of them, and i know several other groups in Europe have done similarly large and stylised shows. and thats before we start to look at companies like Phoenix in Vienna, etc. The problem lies in public perception, and because bookers aren't prepared to pay proper rates for them, the companies find they get more lucrative work in smaller groups, and the big shows fall apart through lack of rehearsals... *sigh* and so the number of seriously rehearsed, well thought out, large shows remains small. and the individual acts don't want to work for no money. so at big conventions, it looks like we are all [censored], and not worth throwing money at. vicious circle! wooh!

I could go on for hours, but instead i might transer some of this over to rec.juggling and see what the jugglers think.....

biggrin fingrs crossed for next year....


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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grald
grald

newbie
Location: frankfurt/germany
Member Since: 19th Nov 2004
Total posts: 22
Posted:Im sorry Im very short in time. Id really want to say a lot of things, but Im going to fly tomorow to burning man and have a full night of work ahead.

first thanks for all the sugestions. I care of what you are saying, and Ill try to bring as much infos as possible to the guys responsible for fire in spain.

please be aware that the final fireshow was not meant to be a gala show and it was not announced as fire-gala. the reason the artists at the galashow are paid is simple: the galashow makes money, cause visitors pay for it. of course the organisers would like to pay any artist who performs, but it would boost the ticket-prices.

the ejc this year had a lot of dificulties in calculating with money. anyone knew its going to be big, but only 1900 preregistrations were somehow few. therefor the organisers tried to save money were they could, not only at the firespace. in the end the firespace was supported with a lot more money than the ammount planed in the beginning. they liked it. it was the head-organiser who insisted that the open-stages at the tents had to take in 2 poi-acts after the line-up was allready fixed.

some of the things written here would have been an usefull information during the event. I havent heard a single complaint about lacking fire-safety up to now f.e.

prior to the ejc noone could really say how the jugglers would like a firespace or fireshows. if I had knewn, I would have had the courage to make a public call for fireperformers. then anyones would have expected to have the creme de la creme on stage. so the jugglers did not expect anything except a big fireshow.

it is unfair, because a lot of fireartists are very far in their personal development, but in general the presence of the fire-scene on EJC has to develope itself step by step.

the final fireshow was one step, and yes, it could have been a much bigger step if more high-skilled artists would have been on stage. I dont know when the budgets for for 2009 are going to be fixed, but I cant imagine that it will take much time. if you want to have a paid fireshow in spain, you will have to act now. I wont organise it and as far as I know the guys in spain dont have somebody responsible for firearts yet.

I will write more when Im back from the states in 3 weeks.


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PyroWill
PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines
Member Since: 4th Aug 2004
Total posts: 4437
Posted:I had an awesome time at the EJC, I think everyone did, not much point going on about negative points.

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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Knoxious
.

Member Since: 25th Feb 2002
Total posts: 420
Posted:rrrrright....I think I might wade into this one as I had quite a bit to say about the whole thing to people who were there...

To start I feel that this was one of my personal favourites EJC's and I think, on the whole, one of the best organised. I think the firespace was one of the most beautiful I've seen and the organisation of the space was great.

I might start by saying I had a fair chip on my shoulder going to the EJC after dealings with the BJC about their request for FlameOz to come and perform and close the fireshow and then for us to be told to buy our own ticket and pay our way up. I thought this was fairly out of order as we had been called and asked and not the other way round. The treatment from the EJC was similar, but at least they hadn't called us up!

Ge's response when I had a mini rant about lack of respect from B/EJC was that there has never been a great fire act in Vegas or in any varieties compared to juggling acts. While I cannot dispute this statement there are a number of things wrong with the reasoning that produces a statement like this.

*I'd like to be clear at this point that I am not directing any of this at Ge personally, but more at the culture that breeds this kind of statement*

1)Without incentive or support (especially from the organisation that both rep's us and is rep'd by us) it will take much longer for any acts to get there. As Yuta has pointed out, one of the reasons for going to the EJC is to share and be inspired. Of course most of this happens out of the freewill of jugglers. But it is the highlight/stage shows that are the big inspirators for many people.

2)There are more and more spinners at every convention (way more than 5%!!)and these people are playing to come and should get to see the shows that interest/represent them.

3) While I understand that the fire arts are young, there *are* great shows out there, but it's more than unlikely that they will do a freebie if there's not even the smallest kickback. While I don't think that acts need to get full fees for their performance, I do think that tickets and a contribution toward expenses or food tickets would help with the balance.

I think my main gist is that (and has already been said) you have to put out something to get something good. And it's obvious that for all the packed fire open stages and that MASSIVE crowd there for the Fire Gala, people want to see fire. So let's give them something good.

RE Gala - It wasn't was it? It was an open show with a decent sound system (really good!) and lights (tho the whole show was completely underlit!) and firemen (what a great way to end the show...go Dai!). I see Ge has made the point that it wasn;t supposed to be called a Gala. But it was.

RE MC-ing - ouch guys, be nice! You get up in front of a packed hill and be funny/make them clap. wow... I think the only comment I have that was a slight shock to me was the comment of: "Yes all the performers are availabel for hire...come talk to us and we'll do you a deal." I hope that was a slip of the tongue in the heat (sic) of the moment! That was pretty degrading I thought! But hey... I said f*ck on stage 2 nights before so I can hardly talk! redface

RE Record Breaking show - man, I was seriously impressed! Well done! I thought it looked tight, well choreo'd and nice pictures and patterns.

RE Firespace safety - hmmm...a difficult one considering the surrounds especially during the show. I thought that the supply of fuel and the spin off area were really forward thinkign steps that added a great deal of organisational professionalism to the outfit. Has anyone commented that there was free fuel to bur (or is this normal and I hadn't noticed?). I do, however, think the spin off area needed to be better lit and the staffing a little less aggressive wink I think this should be a standard from now on as it clearly makes sense!

RE MCP - Botox babe, it'll do you wonders..as/or would some deodorant! :P

I think that's it really... Ge, well done to you and your team. Apologies for my late night or mid show rants ;P I think you raised the bar, possibly not enough for some peopels standards, but it was by far the best fire space at an EJC so far. As with all things there were imperfections but as long as these are logged and passed on to the next org crew it should just get better.

So who is the next EJC fire org crew?!!?

xdave

and ps Bluecat - we have an awesome show regardless of how many people are there! :P and there's 8 of us now smile


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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:Good stuff dave. and yes, i know you have a good show with only a few of you. its not many groups that get naked women throwing themselves at the main guy wink

http://www.jugglingdb.com/news/index.php?offset=0&group=1 is the discussion on rec.juggling for anyone interested in
a) the jugglers take
b) a bjc organisers take.


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted:Thanks Rob, I had a read of that, really interesting.

Possibly the blessed ball bubblers who think that fireplay is inevitably unskilfull may need to see Yuta's EJC open stage



Or perhaps they could actually try to DO it ubblol


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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duvan
duvan

ancient oachkatzlschwoaf
Location: germany
Member Since: 13th Nov 2002
Total posts: 249
Posted:wow that's an interesting discussion going on in here.

excuse me, but may I say something personal?
I feel like "big/huge fireshows" have never been as interesting as the "small" ones. I am currently capturing the EJC footage and if I think back comparing the fire open stages with the huuge fireshow at the end I liked the first ones a lot more simply because of the fact that I was really, really close to the performers.
you can see what's going on even if there is only little or no extra lightning. I had to film the world record for the Guiness people and I've done that from the top of the hill. and what can I say, seeing hundreds of small spinning dots didn't really impress me that much (well it did as soon as I took my eye from the viewfinder lol but I felt like this must have been so much more interesting if sitting in the front row).

I really enjoy it very much being close to the people spinning or juggling with fire, feeling a little bit in "danger" although knowing that nothing will happen and hearing the sound of the flames.

to me it is a little bit as close up magic.. very cool if standing next to the person but rather boring if watching from the third row. maybe a lot of jugglers feel the same.. as we can see on rec.juggling most of them complain about the fact that you can hardly see what's going on and watching some light trails gets a little boring after a while.

woah, that post doesn't make any sense at all in this discussion, does it ? ubblol
but you guys keep going on, very interesting stuff I read here!


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Knoxious
.

Member Since: 25th Feb 2002
Total posts: 420
Posted:I don't think we're talking about en masse shows here...just "bigger" in terms of budget and production values.

I think most things look better not through a viewfinder wink

I agree with the view that fire shows are generally underlit = swirly trails in the darkness.


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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:It seems to turn into a discussion indeed...

First of all: next EJC is in the North of Spain, Vittoria or something like that, right?

I'm afraid that what I got to say in this regard is not going to improve my reputation - what to do? Other than advising to read the following with a sense of humor and benevolence... smile

RE Gala: Can't comment, because I missed it. The EJC-galas I had the chance to see in the past have been excellent, maybe this year was different.

RE Overall EJC organization: I perceived it having been excellently organized but maybe I'm just not looking hard enough to find trouble. How many people had gathered to the EJC? They expected 3.500 visitors, but in fact there were much more than that. Most of them (including me) missed the pre-registration period...

RE Space: The *massive* gym (Europahalle), one tent for practicing and open stages, one tent for the "youth circus", a small bar tent... This way space has not been enough when it started raining and as I recall it did rain maybe 30%(+) of the convention... "Too hot for practicing/ AC"??? Meg, get up more early or go to bed later would be my advice. At 8am the hall has been empty...

Did anyone hear the mantra, that the EJC in Athens generated a loss? Some say money seeped away somewhere... however, if not there might have been more funds for more tents (like in Ptui).

Maybe some have a strange perception of the EJC in general, or I just don't get you right. This is not a commercial/profit event... it's a "convention" (def: an assembly of persons met for a common purpose).

RE Quality of open stages: Meg, maybe we have seen different performances? I did take a lot of footage - unfortunately it will take a few more weeks to get everything together and upload it to YouTube.

Firespinners recognition on the EJC:

It improved 10fold since Karlsruhe 2000, trust me.

Whoever complains about a lack of respect or recognition by jugglers should get his rearside on stage and teach them respect... Complaining and whining alone doesn't get us anywhere.

Meg - your technical expertise would have contributed to the acceptance of Firespinners in the Jugglers world - but you seem to feel more comfy finding refuge by sitting in first row crying "booo" (posthumously) to the other acts, instead of daring to go on stage in front of a hard-to-entertain-crowd yourself. I've seen your vid's and it really is a shame that you have not been on the (regular) open stage - same applies to the other masters, who could have used glowsticks or glowpois instead of fire.

As I recall it, there have only been three firespinning-related acts on the open stages that I watched...

And on a general note: What you reckon the "J" in "EJC" stands for? Officially We are not "Jugglers" (def: "one skilled in keeping several objects in motion in the air at the same time by alternately tossing and catching them"). The EJC is now running for 31 years. (Especially when looking at 'contact') I'd say that 'we' need the EJC far more than 'they' need 'us'.

Fire-Gala/open stage selling more tickets to the EJC? umm How so, if all of this happened outside, where ppl got for free?

RE the fire-pit organisation: Not perfect, true. However:

DID YOU GET INVOLVED? umm

Personally I'm happy that there has been a firepit at all - anyone merely complaining should really get himself involved or try to organize an event by himself. That's as much as I'm going to say about that.

RE EJC DVD: Nulleamai - thanks for enlightening me. In fact at the end of the convention I heard rumors that there might be a DVD-production, so let's wait and see. In the meantime we will be able to see some on YouTube - by the time the footage got processed.

RE Firespinners-incentives: please enlighten me once more - has there been firespinners who approached the EJC orga team in advance and asked for an incentive? Maybe there has been, I really would like to know.

Asking for "free beer" (aka "intoxication") for those performing with fire (aka "a potentially lethal act").... not quite what we like to put on display, huh?... wink

I very much think that 'we' need to show 'them' our culture have patience and self-confidence...

 Written by : Meg

Yeah, it's always a great idea to try and make a good fire show with no backup/money and without the organisers really wanting one. That gives the impression that fire performers will do a great show for free. Obviously that's going to help madrid get some funding for their fireshow.



What now? Was it "a great show (for free)" or was it crap? wink

However: without firespinners like Dai, Sebastian - and this other act whose name I don't recall (the couple that did a partner contact routine and twirled the staff with their feet) - without those three acts, daring to perform on the (regular) open stage and this without fire (aka "a cheap and dirty, yet effectively bedazzling feature") this years EJC would again have little reason to acknowledge the technical pretense of spinning... IMHO...

Gathering a crowd - sheesh - take your shirt off or better: breath fire... It's not about gathering a crowd or selling tickets on the EJC...

Weow - what a long post eek excuse me redface and thankx for reading.... rolleyes


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:here some more vids













Enjoy smile


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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