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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:This is based on a poll from another forum I've been reading recently..

Basically, do you write in cursive?

If not, why not? Is learning cursive a pointless and redundant waste of time or much better than writing in print?


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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MariannaBellyDancer


newbie


Total posts: 9
Posted:I always write in cursive. In Europe they only teach you cursive. Well, at least in Hungary, I'm 100 % sure, but I'm pretty sure about the other countries.
In 1st grade we learned how to write, and after a few months they allowed us to do it with pen (instead of pencil).
As you age and go through years and years of school (and cursive writing) your lines become more and more refined and pick up your own style.
A 13-14 year old's handrwiting is much prettier than an adult's in the US.

There is a study : graphology. it is the study of handwriting, where one can draw assumptions of one's personality. I was really into that.
Unfortunately it won't work on Americans, because they only write with print, and if they try cursive, it won't work, it will look like a 7 year old's.

If you look at people from other countries (I had friends from India, Africa, Europe) they all write beautifully, with very unique styles.

Marianna


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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon

Total posts: 929
Posted:Meihem In Ce Klasrum
By Dolton Edwards
First published: 1946


Because we are still bearing some of the scars of our brief skirmish with II-B English, it is natural that we should be enchanted by Mr. George Bernard Shaw's current campaign for a simplified alphabet.

Obviously, as Mr. Shaw points out, English spelling is in much need of a general overhauling and streamlining. However, our own resistance to any changes requiring a large expenditure of mental effort in the near future would cause us to view with some apprehension the possibility of some day receiving a morning paper printed in -- to us -- Greek.

Our own plan would achieve the same end as the legislation proposed by Mr. Shaw, but in a less shocking manner, as it consists merely of an acceleration of the normal processes by which the language is continually modernized.

As a catalytic agent, we would suggest that a National Easy Language Week be proclaimed, which the President would inaugurate, outlining some short cut to concentrate on during the week, and to be adopted during the year. All school children would be given a holiday, the lost time being the equivalent of that gained by the spelling short cut.

In 1946, for example, we would urge the elimination of the soft "c," for which we would substitute "s." Sertainly, such an improvement would be selebrated in all sivic-minded sircles as being suffisiently worth the trouble, and students in all sities in the land would be reseptive toward any change eliminating the nesessity of learning the differense between the two letters.

In 1947, sinse only the hard "c" would be left, it would be possible to substitute "k" for it, both letters being pronounsed identikally. Imagine how greatly only two years of this prosess would klarify the konfusion in the minds of students. Already we would have eliminated an entire letter from the alphabet. Typewriters and linotypes, kould all be built with one less letter, and all the manpower and materials previously devoted to making "c's" kould be turned toward raising the national standard of living.

In the fase of so many notable improvements, it is easy to foresee that by 1948, "National Easy Language Week" would be a pronounsed sukses. All skhool tshildren would be looking forward with konsiderable exsitement to the holiday, and in a blaze of national publisity it would be announsed that the double konsonant "ph" no longer existed, and that the sound would henseforth be written "f" in all words. This would make sutsh words as "fonograf" twenty persent shorter in print.

By 1949, publik interest in a fonetik alfabet kan be expeketed to have inkreased to the point where a more radikal step forward kan be taken without fear of undue kritisism. We would therefore urge the elimination, at that time of al unesesary double leters, whitsh, although quite harmles, have always ben a nuisanse in the language and desided deterent to akurate speling. Try it yourself in the next leter you write, and se if both writing and reading are not fasilitated.

With so mutsh progres already made, it might be posible in 1950 to delve further into the posibilities of fonetik speling. After due konsideration of the reseption aforded the previous steps, it should be expedient by this time to spel al difthongs fonetikaly. Most students do not realize that the long "i" and "y," as in "time" and "by," are aktualy the difthong"ai," as it is writen in "aisle," and that the long "a" in "fate," is in reality the difthong "ei" as in "rein." Although perhaps not imediately aparent, the saving in taime and efort wil be tremendous when we leiter elimineite the sailent "e," as meide posible bai this last tsheinge.

For, as is wel known, the horible mes of "e's" apearing in our writen language is kaused prinsipaly bai the present necesity of indikeiting whether a vowel is long or short. Therefore, in 1951 we kould simply elemineit al sailent "e's," and kontinu to read and wrait merily along as though we wer in an atomik ag of edukation.

In 1951 we would urg a greit step forward. Sins bai this taim it would have ben four years sins anywun had used the leter "c," we would sugest that the "National Easy Languag Wek" for 1951 be devoted to substitution of "c" for "th." To be sur it would be som taim befor peopl would bekom akustomd to reading ceir newspapers and buks wic sutsh sentenses in cem as "Ceodor caught he had cre cousand cistls crust crough ce cik of his cumb."

In ce seim maner, bai meiking eatsh leter have its own sound and cat sound only, we kould shorten ce language stil mor. In 1952, we would elimineit ce "y"; cen in 1953 we kould us ce leter to indikeit ce "sh" sound, cerbai klarifaiing words laik yugar and yur, as well as redusing bai wunmor leter al words laik "yut," "yore," and so forc. Cink, cen, of al ce benefits to be geind bai ce distinktion whitsh wil cen be meid between words laik:

ocean now written oyean

machine now written mayin

racial now written reiyial

Al sutsh divers weis of wraiting wun sound would no longer exist, and whenever wun kaim akros a "y" sound he would know exactli what to wrait.

Kontinuing cis proses, year after year, we would eventuali hav a reali sensibl writen languag. By 1975, wi ventyur to sei, cer wud bi no mor uv ces teribli trublsum difikultis, wic no tu leters usd to indikeit ce seim nois, and laikwais no tu noises riten wic ce seim leter. Even Mr. Yaw, wi beliv, wud be hapi in ce noleg cad his drims fainali keim tru.


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Wild Child
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

Wild Child

Star Trekker
Location: Cheshire

Total posts: 1733
Posted:eek Ok Ok, I concede, or is that Ai Konsed umm ubblol

You've convinced me - I was playing devil's advocate but now I can komfortable say my instinct towards correct spelling, grammar and cursive writing is not snobbery or because I'm old but becasue it's valid, useful, necessary and beautiful. ubbangel


'The last rays of crimson on the spindle tree as the cerise fruit splits and reveals its orange seeds in a gloriously clashing colour scheme no-one would ever dare to wear'
Euonymous Europeus

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polarity
SILVER Member since May 2005

polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet

Total posts: 1228
Posted:Before I went to school I was left handed, then some idiot decided they'd be doing me a favour by making me learn to write with my right hand. Then all through school they complained about my handwriting, and I gave up on cursive because it was completely illegible. Instead I use a very simplified print, that just uses the most basic strokes, and can be written quickly. I completely ignore all the rules about always starting letters at the top, as it's sometimes quicker to start nearer where your pen is.

It looks like this:

Non-Https Image Link


I made a font of my handwriting, so I can have a personal touch on printed stuff biggrin


You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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Imbalance
GOLD Member since Sep 2005

Imbalance

not different, just not the same
Location: Charlotte, NC

Total posts: 263
Posted:Who writes anymore? My handwriting both in cursive and print is absolutely horrible, always has been. If you know me personally this probably wouldn't surprise you. I tend to talk faster than the MicroMachine man (if you don't know who that is.. well that means you were probably born after 1985 and/or never played with toy cars lol), consequently i think i try and write just as fast and that never works out. I actually hate writing as it is in general so slow and cumbersome.

The funny part is, i have always been artisticly inclined and would spend hours and hours on drawings and paintings etc etc but can't spend a moment to write a word properly. I never really took THAT many notes when in school i just remembered most of it while i spent most all the class time doodling in the margins and what not.

These days I so rarely ever have to actually write anything that I sometimes even forget how certain cursive letters look and have to think about it for a minute.

But anyway, on topic... I use both print and cursive in hybrid form when I write, never consistently either (should see how bad my signature is...) and yes I do think cursive should still be taught as well as sign language. Communication in all its forms should be taught to all kids so that they don't grow up and have problems understanding anyone for whatever various reason. Whether they use it as they get older is their decision, we shouldn't make that choice for them by not teaching it.


I once learned every move that there was,
Every style, Every technique.
Then I woke up, and forgot it all,
So now I struggle to dream.

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon

Total posts: 929
Posted:interesting that you use the cursive Z polarity..

Just curious, anyone else cross their 7's 0's and/or Z's? or put a tail on an X?


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Deamon_Llama
BRONZE Member since Oct 2007

Deamon_Llama

member
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 78
Posted:When I'm doing maths work, my f's become nice and swirly, and my z's have bars through them, but usually they don't.

And usually my handwriting is so messy that even I can't read bits of it. The upside of that is that I'm getting very good at understanding whole sentences when I can't make out half the words biggrin

I'm going to have to try out your style polarity, that looks simple, and still readable.

Does anyone here ever find that they end up writing the loops on their lower case k's backwards? ie. anticlockwise instead of clockwise.


---
No statements are true unless they can be proven scientifically.
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polarity
SILVER Member since May 2005

polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet

Total posts: 1228
Posted:I used to write a lot of programming notes so I needed handwriting that differentiated between 2/z and o/0, that's why I use cursive z's and put a diagonal line through 0s (i and : are different heights).

You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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Wild Child
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

Wild Child

Star Trekker
Location: Cheshire

Total posts: 1733
Posted:I also use cursive z, cross 0's and 7's and started doing them when they became the norm in computer input to avoid confusion. It felt modern to do in the the 80's but now it seems old hat

'The last rays of crimson on the spindle tree as the cerise fruit splits and reveals its orange seeds in a gloriously clashing colour scheme no-one would ever dare to wear'
Euonymous Europeus

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blu_valley
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

blu_valley

fluffy mess
Location: Brighton

Total posts: 197
Posted:If I want to write neatly I write in print, but I generally write quickly and take a lot of notes that tend to come out in this print/cursive hybrid writing. smile Still all completely legible though, so it's all good smile

"I want to know if you can see beauty even when it's not pretty, every day,and if you can source your own life from its presence.." - Oriah Mountain Dreamer

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Wild Child
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

Wild Child

Star Trekker
Location: Cheshire

Total posts: 1733
Posted:I vividly remembr being humbled and shamed by the lovely flowing handwriting of a colleague who subsequently became a very close friend - she's a Thalidomide girl and had no arms and only 3 fingers and a thumb. And our sole concession to her disability (if it can be called that) was to put her keyboard on a boxfile ummubblol

'The last rays of crimson on the spindle tree as the cerise fruit splits and reveals its orange seeds in a gloriously clashing colour scheme no-one would ever dare to wear'
Euonymous Europeus

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Mynci, I hadn't thought about txt as short hand. That would be a great use of it. I used my own version in uni as well, and I used a microcassette recorder. wink

There is a big difference between learning cursive and basic calligraphy, which is what alot of the script style of writing is. D'nelian is the style of cursive most commonly taught in the US starting in 2nd grade. I don't like it because of the extra humps on "n" and "m" and such. It is horrible for kids.

I was thinking of this thread when I was writing alot of stuff by hand the other day and I blame learning both for my bad handwriting. The combination of the two is not so nice where when I just print or just script, it's not so bad but it takes more thought and time than I have when I have to write fast.

Wild Child, I work at Xerox by day and I do alot of writing, so I cross "0" and "7" all the time. I also cross my "z" so they are not confused with a two. However, I never see it outside of work at all and very rarely from the engineers submitting jobs, and it makes things wickedly confusing. I wish they would use it.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear

Total posts: 4693
Posted:i was taught print first and then some time in primary we moved on to cursive. i never thought of this as important but reading through this thread it may well be partially the reason that i have such terrible handwriting.

its funny thinking about it really because i really want to learn another language, maybe sign, but writing in english is so amazing in itself. hm. who would've thought.

and as someone mentioned earlier, shorthand died with the invention of the typewriter. my mum was a secretary to some layery type persons in the supreme courts here in tassie and had to learn shorthand as part of her training i think. its amazing when she's on the phone she still uses it sometimes and she can write an entire sentence in like 8 pen strokes. its because they take commonly used phrases and turn them into a single sign. maybe one day i'll ask her to write a dictionary of sorts for it.


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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