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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > New To Poi? ASK ME ANYTHING!!!

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:*edit* Going on the idea that it would be good to have all of the beginner style questions in one very informative place.



If you have any questions about beginner poi moves and you don't know what to do, feel free to ask it here and some of us more experienced folks will give it our best shot!



The only thing that we're gonna ask is that:

1) You do a search first!

Click on the blue "Search" link about 2 inches below the pictures in the top of your screen and follow the directions. You'll see lots of old threads which we have spent LOTS of time answering your old questions in. [Easy Link to the Search page.]



2) Check out the Library!

There's some great videos in the library which also have links to appropriate forum discussions on that topic. The link for the library is just below the "Home of Poi" logo at the top left of your screen. [Secret Passage to the Library.]



3) ASK US!

If you've got a HoP account and have signed in, there should be a box at the bottom where you can type in your post and then hit "continue". Of course, look in the rest of this thread to see if it's been asked as well!



4) Be Patient!

Not just with us. We do have lives off the internet so there might be some down time but your question will get answered. But also be patient with learning poi. If you're not getting a move, try something different and go back to it. Or, just try to do the moves you already know in a more graceful or dancey way.



OK, ASK AWAY! biggrin

EDITED_BY: Pele (1192146559)


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DarkSerge
GOLD Member since May 2007

member
Location: , USA

Total posts: 35
Posted:So how are you doing on this lovely day?

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 15414
Posted: Written by: NYC

[Old folks, please help me out!]



DarkSerge: NYC is doing very well thanks.


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Oops kids, let's try and keep it on topic! Or at least near topic! We are in the "Beginner Poi Moves Forum"!

[I was going to suggest that initially but thought my first post was getting long with rules as it was. Silly me.)


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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 4993
Posted:NYC... how can i improve on my btb ttn?

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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AtomicDream


newbie
Location: Vermont

Total posts: 7
Posted:I was tought to do the basic butterfly with my hands touching as if I'm praying, and just moving my hands up and down. Also my wrists stay straitish. it is different than the video on this website. But it still works, and I still do butterflys the way i was shown.... Is the way I do it typical?

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Do you do the butterfly literally palm to palm? Hrm... I can't even really visualize that. Are the strings going out the 'back' of your hands?

The most common way that I personally do it with the strings coming between my 2nd and 3rd fingers (as that's where my straps send them) and my hands in loose fists pointing inward with my right hand above my left. Perhaps my style can be best explained by the motion of the 'hand jive' in which one fist is bopping on top of the other. If that makes any sense. smile

Long story short:
Hand position rarely governs the move BUT it can govern what else you can do with the move.

By putting one hand above the other like the HoP video, it's much easier to transition into more complicated moves like "Thread the Needle" and even smooth to move one hand away (perhaps behind a back or head) for a rotation.

So, IMHO...

The way you do it is not the typical way though it isn't wrong. BUT if you learn to do it the way the video shows ALSO I think you'll have much more flexibility with what else you can do with it.

I'll reflect on this more and edit/add when I've got a moment free at work.

Good question though. smile

Oh, and PK, suck less. That usually helps. Feel free to use stronger language as needed. tongue


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AtomicDream


newbie
Location: Vermont

Total posts: 7
Posted:Thank you for answering my question with such detail. I'll definately try to learn the way the video shows, and how you explain it, also.

The strings are going out of the back of my hands. I've got a set of those fuzzy poi on ball chains, with two loops for two fingers on each hand. I put my index and middle finger on each hand through the loops. My friend who is teaching me gave me the practice poi... so I can practice. He's a fire spinner, and eventualy that is what I aim to do.


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I think an important thing is:

Once you get the butterfly, play with it. Learn how to get into and out of it. Learn how to alternate hands behind your head or back.

It's rare that you'll just be staying in a butterfly for long anyway. Not that you shouldn't learn it properly, but understand that it's a foundation for much more in the future.

Have fun with the fuzzy poi and lemme know how it goes.

biggrin
-NYC


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AtomicDream


newbie
Location: Vermont

Total posts: 7
Posted:I figuared out how to do it in regulare and reverse in the way the video shows, and the way I was tought. But I have to say its easier depending on how I want to hold my wrists. In ways it is, in ways it isnt, but its much more verisitile. Thanks for the advice.

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MikefromGlos
SILVER Member since Jul 2006

MikefromGlos

Hitman
Location: Gloucester England

Total posts: 985
Posted: Written by: NYC


I think an important thing is:

Once you get the butterfly, play with it. Learn how to get into and out of it. Learn how to alternate hands behind your head or back.

-NYC



There are so many variation of butterfly its silly like 3bt i can think of at least 6 just off the top of my head


he he i am mike the amazing gloscircus person who is mike.

Officaly an exception to the Poi Boys are Girls Thing

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:3 beat butterfly? Or 3 beat thread the needle?

I don't know that I've heard of a 3 beat butterfly. The butterfly is one beat by definition.

Once you get into Thread the Needle you can certainly get silly.

Of course, the term "Butterfly" is used to describe both a basic move as well as any family of moves in which the poi are moving in opposite directions (like a butterfly weave.) There are certainly infinite amount of 'moves' you can do while spinning the poi in opposite directions.

So many, in fact, that the term 'moves' loses meaning.

But now I'm getting all deep. smile


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MikefromGlos
SILVER Member since Jul 2006

MikefromGlos

Hitman
Location: Gloucester England

Total posts: 985
Posted:i was using 3 bt as a example of another move u can do stupid amount of variations on sorry i didnt make it clear.

he he i am mike the amazing gloscircus person who is mike.

Officaly an exception to the Poi Boys are Girls Thing

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Indeed.

I still don't know what a 3 beat butterfly is but indeed.

biggrin


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MikefromGlos
SILVER Member since Jul 2006

MikefromGlos

Hitman
Location: Gloucester England

Total posts: 985
Posted:lol i will have a play today a see if i can do somthing maybe if .... *thinks very hard of a cleaver way around somthing that cant happen* might have to get some better spinners on the case then me i taught myself see

he he i am mike the amazing gloscircus person who is mike.

Officaly an exception to the Poi Boys are Girls Thing

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pricklyleaf
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester, England (UK)

Total posts: 1365
Posted:Can we have an "old to poi, ask me anything!" thread for all of us who have been spinning for years but are still baffelled by the jediness/techiness? ubblol

Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I think that's what the "advanced moves" section is!

I'd offer to help, but I'm no jedi!


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Imbalance
GOLD Member since Sep 2005

Imbalance

not different, just not the same
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Total posts: 263
Posted:On the whole butterfly thing



No clue how a 3bt butterfly or even thread the needle would work... even split time I can't see it being 3 beats.. maybe there's some kind of isolation or cross in there i'm not thinking about..



But anyway, how you hold your hands when doing a butterfly DOES affect the moves you can do with it, but not severely. For instance I change my hand orientation when doing butterflys depending on what I want to transition into. The palm to palm method certain is fine and almost the way I do it normally. Though I will say if you look at the rotation points where the strings/chains touch my hands you will see that one is always slightly higher or sideways from the other, this is necessary to help the poi not hit. The "hand bop" method NYC employs is very useful for moving off to reels and longarm moves. (and yes I am now stealing "hand bop" for when I teach people lol) The palm to palm method helps going in and out of split arm moves like say giant butterflys or moving behind the back to the front etc.



Of course all that is just my opinion from what I've noticed in my spinning. I would say to all the beginners, learn EVERY way of doing anything. I myself made the mistake for a LONG time of sticking to one method of doing certain moves then later when I realized the potential of other methods... I had a much harder time getting into them. I really wish I'd spent more time when I started testing and learning multiple ways (and directions) of doing moves as my spinning has really opened up more now that I have.



One tip I can give that has helped tremendously is learning what I call changing or isolating the "bounce point." Its kinda hard to explain but think about what joint or part of your body the MAIN movement comes from when doing a butterfly.. do you pivot at the elbow? bounce your shoulders? use your wrists? your fingers? combinations of the above? any single point you can move and move it ONLY when doing a move is the "bounce point" Try and do a butterfly by ONLY moving your elbows, this means shoulders stay still, wrists and fingers stay locked, only movement is at elbow. Then try with shoulders, just wrists, and justs fingers etc. You'll find that if some ways are harder than others as your body isn't used to using that joint for control. It may feel a bit like a silly exercise but if you drill like this it'll quickly help you learn other moves and transitions as you help your body be ready to spin "from anywhere". Nick talks in "scales of poi" about freedom of spinning, putting your arms and hands anywhere and having control, and that is a very very valuable thing to learn. But if you always rely on just your wrist or finger to control the poi you limit your ability to do more complex moves where maybe that joint is locked in position due to some twist of your arm or something. Butteryfly is a perfect move to start developing bounce point control.

EDITED_BY: Imbalance (1191018854)


I once learned every move that there was,
Every style, Every technique.
Then I woke up, and forgot it all,
So now I struggle to dream.

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Imbalance
GOLD Member since Sep 2005

Imbalance

not different, just not the same
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Total posts: 263
Posted:Yes order the DVDs any VISUAL learning aid is sure to help more than words alone. I can't stress enough to beginners how much videos help. Text, in my opinion, can never be anything more than supplementary to video. There's just TO many ways to describe a circle and no two people ever quite form the same image in their head.

As for practicing with fire poi... welp there's a couple schools of thought around that.. a lot of people say NO don't practice with fire poi as you will A) mess up the heads faster and B) condition your body to the weight of them and not be able to spin other types

The flip side says YES practice with fire poi because A) you'll be more ready for fire spinning as you'll be used to them and B) get used to the bruises you WILL get much sooner.

Personally I say yes practice with fire poi but don't JUST practice with fire poi. I personally have multiple poi of different types that I use. I want to be able to spin anything anytime, be it socks, fire, or glowy stuff. Each has their advantages and disadvantages. My suggestion is to start out with socks (even heavy ones if you like) until you don't beat your skull in every time you spin, once you are more comfortable throw in some spinning with firepoi (be SURE to cover and protect the fireheads, a nice thick sock over the end helps) and get used to the weight and speed differences.

The most important piece of advice you can get as a beginner is DO NOT EVER lock yourself in. Be it with type of poi, type of move, or direction of spin. DO NOT LOCK IN. You will regret it later. Variety is key. Good luck! If you need help constructing some practice poi there's lots of threads around about it, or PM me.


I once learned every move that there was,
Every style, Every technique.
Then I woke up, and forgot it all,
So now I struggle to dream.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: nvandervink


So I had just gotten into Poi, actually a friend at camp had introduced me to it and referred me to this website. Anyway he started out just buying a pair of fire poi, and training on those. Is this the way to go. I mean I've had no experience spinning, but should i buy a pair of fire poi and just practice with them unlit to get comfortable with the weight and using a chain instead of sock.



When I first started I bought into the logic of "always practice with your fire poi so you get used to it when you spin fire."

But I don't think that anymore. Well, not completely.

I think you should LEARN with the poi that will teach you the quickest. I think that sock poi are EXTREMELY helpful at helping you learn new moves. They don't tangle, they don't hurt when they hit you, they're easy on the fingers, there are some moves that are MUCH easier to learn on them (like isolations for me). I also like tennis ball poi because of how they wrap.

I would recommend learning on sock or tennis ball poi (or something fuzzy and fun to keep you inspired.)

Then, BEFORE you are ready to spin fire, start using your fire chains to get used to them. You might find the transition a bit tricky, but I think it's easier than learning the moves with them directly.

I find the lessons on this site to be very helpful for the early stuff. Especially when you're learning the basic moves.

Hope that helps.
smile


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Amanda13
BRONZE Member since Apr 2007

member
Location: Missouri, USA

Total posts: 91
Posted:I've always found that unless you are hitting your face, fire poi and sock poi hurt just the same amount.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:i.e. not much, but socks are also much nicer on your hands than chain.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Coins in a sock sounds really painful! Isn't that a weapon in most parts?

Get a balloon and put some rice or bird seed in it (to somewhere between a golf and tennis ball), put another balloon over the other side and stick that in a sock. Feels much better when you hit a knee or worse!


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simta
BRONZE Member since Apr 2006

simta

compfuzzled
Location: hastings, England (UK)

Total posts: 1182
Posted:sometimes you can get that used to the heavier weight that when you use lighter poi they seem too flyaway and not as substantial

isolations especially can be a lot more difficult with lighter poi if you get used to heavy ones

heavier poi do give you a feeling of more control


"the geeks have got you" - Gayle

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 15414
Posted:Nope, heavy are best to learn with.
They spin slower and need less force/ effort/ energy to keep them going smile

And as they are spinning slower, they dont hurt as much when you hit yourself.

Light poi suck almost as much as NYC does. wink


There isnt a difference between heavy and light poi.. at the end of the day, its still a weight on a string. smile


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simta
BRONZE Member since Apr 2006

simta

compfuzzled
Location: hastings, England (UK)

Total posts: 1182
Posted:there is no one answer

try different weights, see what you enjoy spinning with

this might change overtime


"the geeks have got you" - Gayle

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: UnderControlOrFailure


Nope, heavy are best to learn with.
They spin slower and need less force/ effort/ energy to keep them going smile

There isnt a difference between heavy and light poi.. at the end of the day, its still a weight on a string. smile



Hrmm... two sentences that disagree with each other and I disagree with them both. smile

I think heavy poi are easier at first, but then it depends what you want to do with them. I think it's harder to shift from heavy to light than vice versa.

If you pick any moderate weight you'll be fine. If your main goal is to firespin, then you probably want to go with some weight at or below that. I know the poi I practice with are always lighter than firepoi soaked in fuel.

The real answer is: try different set ups, pick one that works for you. There may not be a 'right' answer but there may be 'right' setups for each individual.


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Yeah... I wrote about it somewhere just recently. But I'm at work and gotta run.

Will reply later.

Hrmm... I got a really busy day so later might be later later.


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Here's a thread on that:
http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/show...5/o/all/fpart/1

No time for even a link. smile


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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted: Written by: Imbalance


No clue how a 3bt butterfly or even thread the needle would work... even split time I can't see it being 3 beats.. maybe there's some kind of isolation or cross in there i'm not thinking about..




Hi Imbalance!

Feel free to ask if you don't understand what I'm trying to say, it's probably because my brain's a bit muddled and not because there's anything wrong with yours...

Right... so, if you do a normal 2 bt thread the needle, you do the beats in time with moving your hands, so, say your hands move forwards/backwards at the same time as you give your poi the impulse to go up/down (depending which way you prefer doing your ttn...).

For the 3 beat, you have to change that. As you said, there's some arm-crossing involved. I'm breaking it down like this for the forwards ttn (as seen here http://www.homeofpoi.com/lessons_all/teach/3_15_24_82 but 3bt):

Right hand, beat 1: right arm stretched and over left hand, left hand just pulling back
Left hand, beat 1: as left hand comes out under right arm on the left side
Right hand, beat 2: right arm still stretched, left hand just coming up over the right arm
Left hand, beat 2: left arm stretched and over right hand, right hand just pulling back
Right hand, beat 3: as right hand comes out under left arm on the right side
Left hand, beat 3: left arm still stretched, right hand just coming up over the left arm.

PS: It really helps to count the beats loud at the beginning, took me ages to stop confusing myself and falling back into the normal ttn ubbrollsmile


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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TribalBeatsSioux
SILVER Member since Sep 2007

TribalBeatsSioux

member
Location: Cypress, Ca, USA

Total posts: 72
Posted:You know what I did and am very happy with it. I got 2 tennis balls from Petco that cost a $1.00 each and I quite like the weight and feel of them. I use them in my sock poi.

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