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Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > Starting definition for 'Advanced poi moves'
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Posted:If the move is already existing in the library of Poi moves and if under a section "Beginners part 1", "Beginners part 2", "Beginners Weaves", "Beginners Butterflies", then it will be classed as Beginner (not advanced).
We do not want to get hung up about what is a beginner, intermediate or advanced move. As something easy for one person may be classed as advanced by someone else.
Moving existing threads into this forum
Older members have new ability to move threads. At very bottom of page there is a "Manage this thread" option.
- Move this thread, allows the thread to be moved
- Join to lesson, allows the thread to be listed as a reference in the library.
About the Library
Previously known as "free lessons"
This is the place for sharing information. Some users can upload and edit much that same as the discussion board. Sort of like a simple Wiki system.
It is still "Beta" and will be changed/improved as time goes by.
Most of the articles in the "Articles" section of the site will be migrated over to the Library.
When someone tries to start a new thread in the forums a search is completed that searches the forums and now the Library.
We want the library to be the first place to go for information.
We do not want to get hung up about what is a beginner, intermediate or advanced move. As something easy for one person may be classed as advanced by someone else.
Moving existing threads into this forum
Older members have new ability to move threads. At very bottom of page there is a "Manage this thread" option.
- Move this thread, allows the thread to be moved
- Join to lesson, allows the thread to be listed as a reference in the library.
About the Library
Previously known as "free lessons"
This is the place for sharing information. Some users can upload and edit much that same as the discussion board. Sort of like a simple Wiki system.
It is still "Beta" and will be changed/improved as time goes by.
Most of the articles in the "Articles" section of the site will be migrated over to the Library.
When someone tries to start a new thread in the forums a search is completed that searches the forums and now the Library.
We want the library to be the first place to go for information.
May your balls always burn
Delete Topic
Posted:Malcom, first of all, let me say THANKS for all your hard work and effort! 
In response to the above post, I'm a bit confused so bare with me.
It's my understanding that:
1) If a move is in the library, it's not advanced.
2) If it's not advanced, it's beginner.
3) fNi and others have already uploaded some somewhat complicated moves already. I've never heard of or seen a 'meltdown'. By definition, these moves are beginner.
4) If some uberjedi (pick a random name) uploads to the library a move so complicated that he's the only person in the world that can do it, it is not advanced because it's in the library.
5) Anybody can upload a move to the library.
6) There are currently no restrictions to the level of difficulty of the moves that can be uploaded to the library.
Are all those assertions true?
Should we give any opinions on how we feel about that now or are we still in transition?
In response to the above post, I'm a bit confused so bare with me.
It's my understanding that:
1) If a move is in the library, it's not advanced.
2) If it's not advanced, it's beginner.
3) fNi and others have already uploaded some somewhat complicated moves already. I've never heard of or seen a 'meltdown'. By definition, these moves are beginner.
4) If some uberjedi (pick a random name) uploads to the library a move so complicated that he's the only person in the world that can do it, it is not advanced because it's in the library.
5) Anybody can upload a move to the library.
6) There are currently no restrictions to the level of difficulty of the moves that can be uploaded to the library.
Are all those assertions true?
Should we give any opinions on how we feel about that now or are we still in transition?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Posted:Umm.. How about having some sort of poll for every lesson, for example? To define beginning/advanced moves by the majority of opinnions..?
Or, having some sort of "intermediate" moves, not clearly defined as beg or adv, which can be discussed in both forums..?
Or, having some sort of "intermediate" moves, not clearly defined as beg or adv, which can be discussed in both forums..?
Smile.. It confuses people..:)
Wonders never cease as long as you never cease to wonder.
Posted:Well I like what this guy said (even though he can be a bit blunt):
Written by: NYC
Piece of cake.
Go here:
http://www.homeofpoi.com/lessons_all/teach/3_0_0
Beginner is:
Everything in Beginner 1, Beginner 2, + 3 beat weaves, + butterflies, + Thread the Needles.
Done. Problem solved. Move on. Don't get into a symantic/philisophical debate over it.
I'm sure others could make different arguments but before they do, let's try to decide if it's worth it. If I missed something TOTALLY basic, let me know. If not, let's set an arbitrary but easy to understand thresh hold and let it be at that.
If it was on the old HoP lessons, it's beginner.
Everything else, BY DEFAULT, is advanced. Keep in mind, we only have two choices.
Next question.
Even some crazy raver dude agreed it was sound.
Again, with the new changes, I'm always a bit hesitant since I'm not sure if they are "works in progress" (that I should contribute and comment on) or "end products of hours of deliberation" (that I should accept and support.)
This particular issue sounds like the former, but I'd hate to critique when I should be supporting or support when you're looking for critique.
Written by: NYC
Piece of cake.
Go here:
http://www.homeofpoi.com/lessons_all/teach/3_0_0
Beginner is:
Everything in Beginner 1, Beginner 2, + 3 beat weaves, + butterflies, + Thread the Needles.
Done. Problem solved. Move on. Don't get into a symantic/philisophical debate over it.
I'm sure others could make different arguments but before they do, let's try to decide if it's worth it. If I missed something TOTALLY basic, let me know. If not, let's set an arbitrary but easy to understand thresh hold and let it be at that.
If it was on the old HoP lessons, it's beginner.
Everything else, BY DEFAULT, is advanced. Keep in mind, we only have two choices.
Next question.
Even some crazy raver dude agreed it was sound.
Again, with the new changes, I'm always a bit hesitant since I'm not sure if they are "works in progress" (that I should contribute and comment on) or "end products of hours of deliberation" (that I should accept and support.)
This particular issue sounds like the former, but I'd hate to critique when I should be supporting or support when you're looking for critique.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Posted: Written by: NYC
5) Anybody can upload a move to the library.
Is that true?
I thought there was a filter on...
5) Anybody can upload a move to the library.
Is that true?
I thought there was a filter on...
Delete
Posted:That's what I was asking.
I was honestly asking if my assertions were true because I didn't actually know.
I think it was misinterpreted as whining.
I was honestly asking if my assertions were true because I didn't actually know.
I think it was misinterpreted as whining.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Posted:Ah yes, so you were.
I suppose after 5 years of being here, I should start to read your posts properly 
I suppose after 5 years of being here, I should start to read your posts properly
Delete
pricklyleaf
SILVER Member since Mar 2005
with added berries
Location: Manchester, England (UK)
Total posts: 1365
SILVER Member since Mar 2005
with added berries
Location: Manchester, England (UK)
Total posts: 1365
Posted:You could always have as a heading for the beginners Poi Moves, something along the lines of, (and this is completely rough and of the top of my head and would need some serious changes), 'for the discussion/help with basic and Beginner Poi moves. If you're not sure where to post your query, post it in this forum.
I think NYC's suggestion as to classifying beginner moves is spot on. Which would mean the majority of moves would probably end up in here.
Though, unfortuantely, the more advanced threads would definately need moving over here (which I understand is going to be a truly tedious and difficult task for someone!), because anyone joining the site at the moment, is going to be very confused with the forums as they are!
Also, is there anyway of making the library more obvious to new users. I don't think I would notice it when first joining the site, I'd be more likely to go to the forums. Again, unfortunately this would be a bit of work for someone, but is there anyway of creating some sort of tutorial for people when they first join the site, even some quick overlay scene that points out, first stop for learning moves, something like that. Though not a pop-up screen as most people block these nowadays.
I think a large part of the problem is that people don't really notice or realise the lessons are there.
Also, is there some way of creating some sort of divide between the forums, there's so many, its a bit overwhelming and difficult to find which one to look at.
Anyway, thanks for all your work Malcolm!
I think NYC's suggestion as to classifying beginner moves is spot on. Which would mean the majority of moves would probably end up in here.
Though, unfortuantely, the more advanced threads would definately need moving over here (which I understand is going to be a truly tedious and difficult task for someone!), because anyone joining the site at the moment, is going to be very confused with the forums as they are!
Also, is there anyway of making the library more obvious to new users. I don't think I would notice it when first joining the site, I'd be more likely to go to the forums. Again, unfortunately this would be a bit of work for someone, but is there anyway of creating some sort of tutorial for people when they first join the site, even some quick overlay scene that points out, first stop for learning moves, something like that. Though not a pop-up screen as most people block these nowadays.
I think a large part of the problem is that people don't really notice or realise the lessons are there.
Also, is there some way of creating some sort of divide between the forums, there's so many, its a bit overwhelming and difficult to find which one to look at.
Anyway, thanks for all your work Malcolm!
Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Posted:I think a more fundamental definition of Beginner helps address the problem we were trying to address.
We aren't overrun with newbies asking how to do the reverse 4 beat thread the needle, we're overrun with newbies asking how to do the weave/butterfly/mexican wave, etc...
By the time you get past those very basic moves, you've got enough background to productively participate in any advanced discussions, even if you can't yet do them.
An even simpler solution:
Move "3 beat weaves" (forward + reverse), basic butterfly (forward + reverse), basic TTN (forward and reverse) videos to "beginner moves 1+2" in the library...
THEN don't allow the general public to 'add' to beginner moves. They can add to the other sections of the library.
Then define the Beginner Poi moves forum as only addressing anything in the restricted beginner lessons 1+2 in the library.
Actually, you could then label the other sections things like "advanced weaves" and such to make it more obvious (with links to the advanced forums.)
I think it would help the board if THOSE moves had a particular forum, and folks like me could help wrangle newbies in there with countless questions on those moves. I think it makes it less intimidating to post for the newbies, and more satisfying to have those questions localized to that location for the oldies.
My $2.
We aren't overrun with newbies asking how to do the reverse 4 beat thread the needle, we're overrun with newbies asking how to do the weave/butterfly/mexican wave, etc...
By the time you get past those very basic moves, you've got enough background to productively participate in any advanced discussions, even if you can't yet do them.
An even simpler solution:
Move "3 beat weaves" (forward + reverse), basic butterfly (forward + reverse), basic TTN (forward and reverse) videos to "beginner moves 1+2" in the library...
THEN don't allow the general public to 'add' to beginner moves. They can add to the other sections of the library.
Then define the Beginner Poi moves forum as only addressing anything in the restricted beginner lessons 1+2 in the library.
Actually, you could then label the other sections things like "advanced weaves" and such to make it more obvious (with links to the advanced forums.)
I think it would help the board if THOSE moves had a particular forum, and folks like me could help wrangle newbies in there with countless questions on those moves. I think it makes it less intimidating to post for the newbies, and more satisfying to have those questions localized to that location for the oldies.
My $2.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Total posts: 4145
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Total posts: 4145
Posted:Great new features (this and the moving threads thingy), thanks a lot, Malcolm and crew
I can see Pricklyleaf's point with it being tedious to go through all threads. But it's not an immediate problem really, as long as the top few pages keep getting checked, anything that's searched for and bumped will be noticed and moved to the advanced part if that's where it belongs.
I can see Pricklyleaf's point with it being tedious to go through all threads. But it's not an immediate problem really, as long as the top few pages keep getting checked, anything that's searched for and bumped will be noticed and moved to the advanced part if that's where it belongs.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
Posted:i personally define advanced moves as have any of the prerequisite, such as 4x4 fountain, you use the forward weave, backwards weave, and windmill. and yes for some people some of these moves are very easy to learn. such as triquetras. extension with a anti-spin. but for some people triquetras can take some time to get down. so if this theory is true isolation's, wraps, reels, and so on are also beginner. but just because you cant do a isolation dose not make you a Beginner Poi spinner. you can be a extremely advance Poi spinner and never learn isolation's.
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