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Forums > Advanced Staff moves > Advanced contact staff variations
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Posted:Oh how i have waited for this! A thread where we can post techy stuff without feeling guilty that noobs wont understand.
So in my head this is a thread to post variations of the basic contact moves that you can do or have simply thought "hey, what if it went round there and under that arm and out there? that would be cool"
Hypothetical stuff is cool, you dont need to be able to do it, just have the idea that its possible.
So to start it off, this summer ive been working on:
Minimum beat stuff like the min steve (removing the spin at your neck) frontside, backside and continuous (so like its isolating).
Frontside min steve horizontal angel
continuous min steve / fs cage steve type thingy
Horizontal angel rolls and seeing what variations come out. Found you can do a horizontal holy trinity (H. angel into H. jesus exit with a H. angel)
Minimum beat entry to a matrix where you skip the neck spin straight to under the arm (meg came up with this ages ago but ive come back to it)
Full conveyor belts. Easier horizontally then vertically. When you finish a normal conveyor do a propellor at the elbow so the staff goes back and does a conveyor on the underside. You can add a propellor around both hands in the middle to stabalise the staff. It sort of turns into a prayer matrix.
proppelor prayer matrix / underside of full conveyor
full conveyor matrix thing
Elbow wraps and propellors, these link nicely into a matrix variant i thought of a while ago and named with the help of meg, Bridge matrix. You roll up the outside of your upper arm, wrap around the tip of your elbow and do a sorta mini H. angel over the underside of your forearms to the other elbow and wrap back and down your other arm.
Groundwork and leg stuff like the twister (still havnt got the full version down solid yet) and the beetle. Had other ideas about cartwheel rolls but havnt got them yet. You should be able to do 4 variations of a cartwheel roll, placing in in either direction and in H or V planes.
cartwheel roll (done badly but you get the idea)
Twister
Beetle
The full twister starts in your hand, steve matrix down your side to enter the twister, then comes out the other side and rolls back up your other side to other side of matrix then steve out. Ive managed this twice ever.
that will do for now, sure ill think of other stuff and add it later.
Oh ive got videos for some of these, recon i should link them? or is that just blatant self plugging?
*edit* added videos and some more text so it makes more sense.
EDITED_BY: -sandy- (1189686522)
So in my head this is a thread to post variations of the basic contact moves that you can do or have simply thought "hey, what if it went round there and under that arm and out there? that would be cool"
Hypothetical stuff is cool, you dont need to be able to do it, just have the idea that its possible.
So to start it off, this summer ive been working on:
Minimum beat stuff like the min steve (removing the spin at your neck) frontside, backside and continuous (so like its isolating).
Frontside min steve horizontal angel
continuous min steve / fs cage steve type thingy
Horizontal angel rolls and seeing what variations come out. Found you can do a horizontal holy trinity (H. angel into H. jesus exit with a H. angel)
Minimum beat entry to a matrix where you skip the neck spin straight to under the arm (meg came up with this ages ago but ive come back to it)
Full conveyor belts. Easier horizontally then vertically. When you finish a normal conveyor do a propellor at the elbow so the staff goes back and does a conveyor on the underside. You can add a propellor around both hands in the middle to stabalise the staff. It sort of turns into a prayer matrix.
proppelor prayer matrix / underside of full conveyor
full conveyor matrix thing
Elbow wraps and propellors, these link nicely into a matrix variant i thought of a while ago and named with the help of meg, Bridge matrix. You roll up the outside of your upper arm, wrap around the tip of your elbow and do a sorta mini H. angel over the underside of your forearms to the other elbow and wrap back and down your other arm.
Groundwork and leg stuff like the twister (still havnt got the full version down solid yet) and the beetle. Had other ideas about cartwheel rolls but havnt got them yet. You should be able to do 4 variations of a cartwheel roll, placing in in either direction and in H or V planes.
cartwheel roll (done badly but you get the idea)
Twister
Beetle
The full twister starts in your hand, steve matrix down your side to enter the twister, then comes out the other side and rolls back up your other side to other side of matrix then steve out. Ive managed this twice ever.
that will do for now, sure ill think of other stuff and add it later.
Oh ive got videos for some of these, recon i should link them? or is that just blatant self plugging?
*edit* added videos and some more text so it makes more sense.
EDITED_BY: -sandy- (1189686522)
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Delete TopicMynci
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Posted:self plug sandy then I'll know where to get video's when I'm telling noobs 
and video's are handy for some.
and video's are handy for some.A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
DeletePosted:Done.
Just realised i dont have videos for everything there but ill add them in time.
Just realised i dont have videos for everything there but ill add them in time.
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Delete
Posted:I'm at that stage where I'm neither newbie nor advanced. ^.^
I'd just like to say thanks for adding yet more neat tricks for me to try and learn; great videos!!
I'd just like to say thanks for adding yet more neat tricks for me to try and learn; great videos!!
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Posted:Aren't frontside steve variations automatically minimal beat? Labeling it as such is a bit redundant, no?
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Posted:I would have thought if you wanted you could get a beat on your chest like that limbo move mags loves so much with a frontside steve, you'd need to bend really far back.
I think the minimal frontside steve would be easier than a standard frontside.
I think the minimal frontside steve would be easier than a standard frontside.
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
DeletePosted:Yeah but thats exactly what I mean, the standard frontside steve is the minimal frontside steve. What you just described would be a type of combi of a frontside steve amd Measts chest spin speciality, where extra beats could theoreically be added indefinetly. I however would never refer to that as a simple frontside steve however.
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Posted:could the 2 be differentiated as frontside and full frontside? like the normal full steve involves going up AND down the arms the normal steve as people do it is actually the half steve I believe a simpler version. I think to steve into a throat wrap would be hard as you would be anti spinning (?) at the neck and would break the movement up the other arm... (should this have a thread of it's own? frontside steve variation theory?)
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
DeletePosted: Written by: entheogen
Aren't frontside steve variations automatically minimal beat? Labeling it as such is a bit redundant, no?
No.
A front side steve is the second half of a full steve. So exactly the same as a normal steve but on your 'front side'. A min beat steve comes under the same classifications as a normal steve, i.e. normal 'half steve' goes round the back of your neck as does a min steve, front side stuff is the same but on your front side. This applies to all moves imo, a front side anything is just the same move but done on your front side.
We can go into steve theory again if you like but me meg and chrono spent about a fortnight argueing about what clasified as a steve and at what point it became and angel roll in new moves last summer. Conclusion? we should have thought of a better name for steves and angel rolls.
Aren't frontside steve variations automatically minimal beat? Labeling it as such is a bit redundant, no?
No.
A front side steve is the second half of a full steve. So exactly the same as a normal steve but on your 'front side'. A min beat steve comes under the same classifications as a normal steve, i.e. normal 'half steve' goes round the back of your neck as does a min steve, front side stuff is the same but on your front side. This applies to all moves imo, a front side anything is just the same move but done on your front side.
We can go into steve theory again if you like but me meg and chrono spent about a fortnight argueing about what clasified as a steve and at what point it became and angel roll in new moves last summer. Conclusion? we should have thought of a better name for steves and angel rolls.
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Posted:I did think that was the case and you could frontside steve normally I thought it was part of the full steve but only 1 direction across the throat.
minimum beat can be back OR frontside
minimum beat can be back OR frontside
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
DeletePosted:Granted the second half of a full steve, ie. a frontside steve, COULD be done with a throat wrap, but Ive never seen someone do it like this. Normally its done as a minimal beat, and silly me I consider the norm to be synonymous with the standard. Thus labeling a frontside minimal beat steve as such implies that the second half of a full steve actually has to be properly done with a throat wrap. Or does this mean everyone does a full steve wrong? What does steve say?
Sorry, sometimes I just like to be overly argumentative just to have the topic at hand get a bit more interesting.
Sorry, sometimes I just like to be overly argumentative just to have the topic at hand get a bit more interesting.
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Posted: that's ok, I think most people do actually do the full steve wrong they forget it goes up and down ewach arm
that's ok, I think most people do actually do the full steve wrong they forget it goes up and down ewach armA couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
DeletePosted:Sorry etheogen but i dissaree. Most of the people i have seen do a full steve do steve, wrist wrapm, f/s steve (with a throat wrap).
To do a full steve the way you are describing would mean when the staff rolls across your front you would need to lean right back so the staff is able to get past your head without hitting it (ie min steve). Thats much harder. Granted many people do the second half of a full steve slopily and transfer the staff from upper arm to upper arm rather than shoulder to shoulder so it looks less like a throat wrap.
Surely a full steve ought to be a symetrical move in order for it to be defined as full?
(btw, im quite happy to argue definitions to make things more interesting, just please dont take offence at anything i say)
*edit* Just checking, but are we talking about the same moves? i call this a f/s steve and this a min steve.
EDITED_BY: -sandy- (1190049787)
To do a full steve the way you are describing would mean when the staff rolls across your front you would need to lean right back so the staff is able to get past your head without hitting it (ie min steve). Thats much harder. Granted many people do the second half of a full steve slopily and transfer the staff from upper arm to upper arm rather than shoulder to shoulder so it looks less like a throat wrap.
Surely a full steve ought to be a symetrical move in order for it to be defined as full?
(btw, im quite happy to argue definitions to make things more interesting, just please dont take offence at anything i say)
*edit* Just checking, but are we talking about the same moves? i call this a f/s steve and this a min steve.
EDITED_BY: -sandy- (1190049787)
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Posted:I agree with Sandy, the normal steve needs that extra beat on both the front and back, so a minimal steve needs it taken out on both sides so ends up having one full rotation taken out between start and finish.
I have another question tho: Could you minimise the steve further by taking out the beat that goes around your wrist? So thye stick would simply roll up to the wrist but then roll straight back down without rotation.
I have another question tho: Could you minimise the steve further by taking out the beat that goes around your wrist? So thye stick would simply roll up to the wrist but then roll straight back down without rotation.
AAARRRGGGHHH!!! My giant stick broke!!! In two!!! My stick broke in two!!! 
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Posted:that sounds like it would be a static staff kinda thing, like a globetrotter back and forth.....someone do it.
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Posted:you could join your hands making a circle of your arms and completely isolate 1 wick in the middle with 1 rotating round the outside. that would remove the wrist beat , keep it minimal AND create a nice isolated flame that you looked like you were hugging 
or as poje says it would be like a globe trotter back and forth nice but not a continuous motion more like a pendulum
or as poje says it would be like a globe trotter back and forth nice but not a continuous motion more like a pendulum
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
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Posted: Written by: Mynci
you could join your hands making a circle of your arms and completely isolate 1 wick in the middle with 1 rotating round the outside. that would remove the wrist beat , keep it minimal AND create a nice isolated flame that you looked like you were hugging
or as poje says it would be like a globe trotter back and forth nice but not a continuous motion more like a pendulum
Yeah but unfortunately it's quite delicate to do. Hard to do continuously, and not quite as elegant as it sounds due to bowing your head and having to raise your arms above your head. Stupid gravity.
you could join your hands making a circle of your arms and completely isolate 1 wick in the middle with 1 rotating round the outside. that would remove the wrist beat , keep it minimal AND create a nice isolated flame that you looked like you were hugging
or as poje says it would be like a globe trotter back and forth nice but not a continuous motion more like a pendulum
Yeah but unfortunately it's quite delicate to do. Hard to do continuously, and not quite as elegant as it sounds due to bowing your head and having to raise your arms above your head. Stupid gravity.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
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Posted: Written by: mcp
Written by: Mynci
you could join your hands making a circle of your arms and completely isolate 1 wick in the middle with 1 rotating round the outside. that would remove the wrist beat , keep it minimal AND create a nice isolated flame that you looked like you were hugging
or as poje says it would be like a globe trotter back and forth nice but not a continuous motion more like a pendulum
Yeah but unfortunately it's quite delicate to do. Hard to do continuously, and not quite as elegant as it sounds due to bowing your head and having to raise your arms above your head. Stupid gravity.
Like this? Or to get it to go back with the minimum number of beats you still need to do 1 beat to change direction otherwise you need a stall
Written by: Mynci
you could join your hands making a circle of your arms and completely isolate 1 wick in the middle with 1 rotating round the outside. that would remove the wrist beat , keep it minimal AND create a nice isolated flame that you looked like you were hugging
or as poje says it would be like a globe trotter back and forth nice but not a continuous motion more like a pendulum
Yeah but unfortunately it's quite delicate to do. Hard to do continuously, and not quite as elegant as it sounds due to bowing your head and having to raise your arms above your head. Stupid gravity.
Like this? Or to get it to go back with the minimum number of beats you still need to do 1 beat to change direction otherwise you need a stall
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Posted:could you do a throw? like a burnoff but with less spin, the falling motion could allow to raise the arm and regain momentum after landing.
I'll bet it looks a bit messy you would need to do like a wave motion with your arms. (bit like that 1980's body popping...anybody seen durbs
)
EDITED_BY: Mynci (1190113142)
I'll bet it looks a bit messy you would need to do like a wave motion with your arms. (bit like that 1980's body popping...anybody seen durbs
)EDITED_BY: Mynci (1190113142)
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
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Posted:sandy: no not caged at all. It's a continuous minimum steve where you form a scalextrix track with your arms. The staff is always on the top of your arms and the top of your shoulders. It's not a continuous caged steve...
Tim did two minimum steves in a row in leeds, with a bit of turning. You lay your hands over each other, and let the staff roll over the hands without doing a half beat, so the end that is closest to your head doesn't swap to the other end, like it does in a standard prayer steve, you know?
You have to get the minimum steve soooo solid to do it thou. cos the staff isn't visible for most of the move, and then it's very quick over your hands when you can see it, then you immediately have to duck your head again, and feel where the center point of the staff is.
Tim did two minimum steves in a row in leeds, with a bit of turning. You lay your hands over each other, and let the staff roll over the hands without doing a half beat, so the end that is closest to your head doesn't swap to the other end, like it does in a standard prayer steve, you know?
You have to get the minimum steve soooo solid to do it thou. cos the staff isn't visible for most of the move, and then it's very quick over your hands when you can see it, then you immediately have to duck your head again, and feel where the center point of the staff is.
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Posted:Touch Sandy, you do indeed to frontside steves with a throat wrap. I guess Ive only seen them really badly done. I always thought they were supposed to just cross from arm to arm and never bothered to learn it cause I thought it looked like crap. Hmm, maybe Ill give full steves a second chance.
And I cant learn minimal steves unless i cut off my hair.
And I cant learn minimal steves unless i cut off my hair.
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Posted:You can wear a nice tight hat unless your hair is really long I used to be able to do them with long hair. but I admit it is harder...
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
Delete
Posted: Written by: entheogen
And I cant learn minimal steves unless i cut off my hair.
tis harsh but cutting hair off makes so much difference
And I cant learn minimal steves unless i cut off my hair.
tis harsh but cutting hair off makes so much difference
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Posted:natalie portman was hot in V for Vendetta once she got her hair cut off.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
Posted: Written by: mcp
natalie portman was hot in V for Vendetta once she got her hair cut off.
a smart answer... choose 1
a) Valerie is hot even with long hair
b) so that's what inspired you to cut yours!
c) it's a shame it didn't work for you
d) Antti is an idiot
Oh yeah. Contact staff and sh.t
natalie portman was hot in V for Vendetta once she got her hair cut off.
a smart answer... choose 1
a) Valerie is hot even with long hair
b) so that's what inspired you to cut yours!
c) it's a shame it didn't work for you
d) Antti is an idiot
Oh yeah. Contact staff and sh.t
Point your toes.
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Posted: Written by: Antti_Everything
Written by: mcp
natalie portman was hot in V for Vendetta once she got her hair cut off.
a smart answer... choose 1
a) Valerie is hot even with long hair
b) so that's what inspired you to cut yours!
c) it's a shame it didn't work for you
d) Antti is an idiot
Oh yeah. Contact staff and sh.t
Stupid anttti. I cut mine off because I wanted to be more like you.
Then you grew yours. Like a girlie hippy. d) for you.
Written by: mcp
natalie portman was hot in V for Vendetta once she got her hair cut off.
a smart answer... choose 1
a) Valerie is hot even with long hair
b) so that's what inspired you to cut yours!
c) it's a shame it didn't work for you
d) Antti is an idiot
Oh yeah. Contact staff and sh.t
Stupid anttti. I cut mine off because I wanted to be more like you.
Then you grew yours. Like a girlie hippy. d) for you.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
Posted:Um, I gotta go for e) Im much to chickensh!t to go through with it. I just cut off a good three inches, I mean, its still way past my shoulders, and Im completely freaking out that its too short.
At least now I can practice angel rolls with my hair in a bun without having to tilt my head to the side... as soon as I unlearn the bad habit that is.
Besides, just cause Natalie Portman can get away with it doesnt mean I would. My heads shaped funny. I'd look like a total idjit.
At least now I can practice angel rolls with my hair in a bun without having to tilt my head to the side... as soon as I unlearn the bad habit that is.
Besides, just cause Natalie Portman can get away with it doesnt mean I would. My heads shaped funny. I'd look like a total idjit.
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DeletePosted:Bah! whats all this talk of hair. This is a moves thread not a bloody hair salon! 
Ok, lets get back on track, i have a new matrix variation from playing at BrJC. Substitution matrix with your hands in prayer behind your head. You can either do a beat around your hands or not before doing the second half.
Anyone got any other suggestions?
Oh and Meg, i concur, continuous min beat not caged, yet another vid ive labeled wrong cos i wasnt thinking.
Ok, lets get back on track, i have a new matrix variation from playing at BrJC. Substitution matrix with your hands in prayer behind your head. You can either do a beat around your hands or not before doing the second half.
Anyone got any other suggestions?
Oh and Meg, i concur, continuous min beat not caged, yet another vid ive labeled wrong cos i wasnt thinking.
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Posted:the conveyor belt matrix?
Has an interesting twist... you do the bit where it goes around your hands, under your arm to do the half matrix, and then as it comes round onto your shoulder, you catch it on the back of your hand and go back into the conveyor belt yeah?
This is like a same hand matrix takeoff [as you would call it (possibly.)]
also, you can do the same on the other arm, so you're doing the half for the matrix that goes from the back of the neck to the front, but as it's coming under your armpit, you catch it with the back of the hand of the same arm. (prayer / takeoff stylee) do a quick handwrap to get you hand to the other side of the center point, and then you can put it back on the back of that same shoulder and 'complete' that half of the matrix. (or you can use it to complete the conveyor belt matrix or whatever.)
I find it easier to do it on this half of the matrix, the front to back half is a fair bit harder to manage this.
Has an interesting twist... you do the bit where it goes around your hands, under your arm to do the half matrix, and then as it comes round onto your shoulder, you catch it on the back of your hand and go back into the conveyor belt yeah?
This is like a same hand matrix takeoff [as you would call it (possibly.)]
also, you can do the same on the other arm, so you're doing the half for the matrix that goes from the back of the neck to the front, but as it's coming under your armpit, you catch it with the back of the hand of the same arm. (prayer / takeoff stylee) do a quick handwrap to get you hand to the other side of the center point, and then you can put it back on the back of that same shoulder and 'complete' that half of the matrix. (or you can use it to complete the conveyor belt matrix or whatever.)
I find it easier to do it on this half of the matrix, the front to back half is a fair bit harder to manage this.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
Posted:Nice. Thats a bit like one me and Tim have been working on (Tim more succesfully than me) where you start like a steve but before the staff gets to your elbow you do an elbow wrap (like a stevetrix but earlier in the move). From here you can either continue down your arm and across your shoulders or go back up your arm towards your hand. If you go back up to your hand you do a fig 8 going around your wrist and elbow.
btw meg, my mate just read your signiture and is currently rolling around on the floor, thanks
btw meg, my mate just read your signiture and is currently rolling around on the floor, thanks
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Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Total posts: 5276
Posted:I like to call that lassoing, cos I normally do it on the way down to a matrix out of the front half of a full steve. A wrist propellor, then an elbow propellor, then the matrix. Well it reminds me of lassoing.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
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