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Forums > Advanced Staff moves > Advanced contact staff variations

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-sandy-
-sandy-

old hand
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 12th Jul 2004
Total posts: 716
Posted:Oh how i have waited for this! A thread where we can post techy stuff without feeling guilty that noobs wont understand.



So in my head this is a thread to post variations of the basic contact moves that you can do or have simply thought "hey, what if it went round there and under that arm and out there? that would be cool"

Hypothetical stuff is cool, you dont need to be able to do it, just have the idea that its possible.



So to start it off, this summer ive been working on:



Minimum beat stuff like the min steve (removing the spin at your neck) frontside, backside and continuous (so like its isolating).

Frontside min steve horizontal angel

continuous min steve / fs cage steve type thingy



Horizontal angel rolls and seeing what variations come out. Found you can do a horizontal holy trinity (H. angel into H. jesus exit with a H. angel)



Minimum beat entry to a matrix where you skip the neck spin straight to under the arm (meg came up with this ages ago but ive come back to it)



Full conveyor belts. Easier horizontally then vertically. When you finish a normal conveyor do a propellor at the elbow so the staff goes back and does a conveyor on the underside. You can add a propellor around both hands in the middle to stabalise the staff. It sort of turns into a prayer matrix.

proppelor prayer matrix / underside of full conveyor

full conveyor matrix thing



Elbow wraps and propellors, these link nicely into a matrix variant i thought of a while ago and named with the help of meg, Bridge matrix. You roll up the outside of your upper arm, wrap around the tip of your elbow and do a sorta mini H. angel over the underside of your forearms to the other elbow and wrap back and down your other arm.



Groundwork and leg stuff like the twister (still havnt got the full version down solid yet) and the beetle. Had other ideas about cartwheel rolls but havnt got them yet. You should be able to do 4 variations of a cartwheel roll, placing in in either direction and in H or V planes.

cartwheel roll (done badly but you get the idea)

Twister

Beetle



The full twister starts in your hand, steve matrix down your side to enter the twister, then comes out the other side and rolls back up your other side to other side of matrix then steve out. Ive managed this twice ever.



that will do for now, sure ill think of other stuff and add it later.



Oh ive got videos for some of these, recon i should link them? or is that just blatant self plugging?



*edit* added videos and some more text so it makes more sense.

EDITED_BY: -sandy- (1189686522)


"Don't do it naked!"

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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8737
Posted:self plug sandy then I'll know where to get video's when I'm telling noobs ubblol and video's are handy for some.

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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-sandy-
-sandy-

old hand
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 12th Jul 2004
Total posts: 716
Posted:Done.
Just realised i dont have videos for everything there but ill add them in time.


"Don't do it naked!"

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Skatto
Skatto

Walking on whims...
Location: Eastbourne, UK
Member Since: 12th Jan 2007
Total posts: 687
Posted:I'm at that stage where I'm neither newbie nor advanced. ^.^

I'd just like to say thanks for adding yet more neat tricks for me to try and learn; great videos!!


Skatto

"Fly like a mouse,
Run like a cushion,
Be the small bookcase."

For goodness sake, don't aggravate the otters!!!

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entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:Aren't frontside steve variations automatically minimal beat? Labeling it as such is a bit redundant, no?

'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
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Posted:I would have thought if you wanted you could get a beat on your chest like that limbo move mags loves so much with a frontside steve, you'd need to bend really far back.
I think the minimal frontside steve would be easier than a standard frontside.


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:Yeah but thats exactly what I mean, the standard frontside steve is the minimal frontside steve. What you just described would be a type of combi of a frontside steve amd Measts chest spin speciality, where extra beats could theoreically be added indefinetly. I however would never refer to that as a simple frontside steve however.

'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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Mynci
Mynci

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Posted:could the 2 be differentiated as frontside and full frontside? like the normal full steve involves going up AND down the arms the normal steve as people do it is actually the half steve I believe a simpler version. I think to steve into a throat wrap would be hard as you would be anti spinning (?) at the neck and would break the movement up the other arm... (should this have a thread of it's own? frontside steve variation theory?)

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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-sandy-
-sandy-

old hand
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 12th Jul 2004
Total posts: 716
Posted: Written by: entheogen



Aren't frontside steve variations automatically minimal beat? Labeling it as such is a bit redundant, no?





No.

A front side steve is the second half of a full steve. So exactly the same as a normal steve but on your 'front side'. A min beat steve comes under the same classifications as a normal steve, i.e. normal 'half steve' goes round the back of your neck as does a min steve, front side stuff is the same but on your front side. This applies to all moves imo, a front side anything is just the same move but done on your front side.



We can go into steve theory again if you like but me meg and chrono spent about a fortnight argueing about what clasified as a steve and at what point it became and angel roll in new moves last summer. Conclusion? we should have thought of a better name for steves and angel rolls. shrug


"Don't do it naked!"

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Mynci
Mynci

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Posted:I did think that was the case and you could frontside steve normally I thought it was part of the full steve but only 1 direction across the throat.
minimum beat can be back OR frontside


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:Granted the second half of a full steve, ie. a frontside steve, COULD be done with a throat wrap, but Ive never seen someone do it like this. Normally its done as a minimal beat, and silly me I consider the norm to be synonymous with the standard. Thus labeling a frontside minimal beat steve as such implies that the second half of a full steve actually has to be properly done with a throat wrap. Or does this mean everyone does a full steve wrong? What does steve say?

Sorry, sometimes I just like to be overly argumentative just to have the topic at hand get a bit more interesting.


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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Mynci
Mynci

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Posted:ubblol that's ok, I think most people do actually do the full steve wrong they forget it goes up and down ewach arm

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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-sandy-
-sandy-

old hand
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 12th Jul 2004
Total posts: 716
Posted:Sorry etheogen but i dissaree. Most of the people i have seen do a full steve do steve, wrist wrapm, f/s steve (with a throat wrap).



To do a full steve the way you are describing would mean when the staff rolls across your front you would need to lean right back so the staff is able to get past your head without hitting it (ie min steve). Thats much harder. Granted many people do the second half of a full steve slopily and transfer the staff from upper arm to upper arm rather than shoulder to shoulder so it looks less like a throat wrap.



Surely a full steve ought to be a symetrical move in order for it to be defined as full?



(btw, im quite happy to argue definitions to make things more interesting, just please dont take offence at anything i say)



*edit* Just checking, but are we talking about the same moves? i call this a f/s steve and this a min steve.

EDITED_BY: -sandy- (1190049787)


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Flame Boy
Flame Boy

veteran
Location: Out
Member Since: 13th Jul 2004
Total posts: 1508
Posted:I agree with Sandy, the normal steve needs that extra beat on both the front and back, so a minimal steve needs it taken out on both sides so ends up having one full rotation taken out between start and finish.

I have another question tho: Could you minimise the steve further by taking out the beat that goes around your wrist? So thye stick would simply roll up to the wrist but then roll straight back down without rotation.


AAARRRGGGHHH!!! My giant stick broke!!! In two!!! My stick broke in two!!! ubbcrying

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Fire_Moose
Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Member Since: 2nd May 2007
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Posted:that sounds like it would be a static staff kinda thing, like a globetrotter back and forth.....someone do it.

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Mynci
Mynci

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Posted:you could join your hands making a circle of your arms and completely isolate 1 wick in the middle with 1 rotating round the outside. that would remove the wrist beat , keep it minimal AND create a nice isolated flame that you looked like you were hugging biggrin
or as poje says it would be like a globe trotter back and forth nice but not a continuous motion more like a pendulum


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: Mynci


you could join your hands making a circle of your arms and completely isolate 1 wick in the middle with 1 rotating round the outside. that would remove the wrist beat , keep it minimal AND create a nice isolated flame that you looked like you were hugging biggrin
or as poje says it would be like a globe trotter back and forth nice but not a continuous motion more like a pendulum



Yeah but unfortunately it's quite delicate to do. Hard to do continuously, and not quite as elegant as it sounds due to bowing your head and having to raise your arms above your head. Stupid gravity.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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-sandy-
-sandy-

old hand
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 12th Jul 2004
Total posts: 716
Posted: Written by: mcp


 Written by: Mynci


you could join your hands making a circle of your arms and completely isolate 1 wick in the middle with 1 rotating round the outside. that would remove the wrist beat , keep it minimal AND create a nice isolated flame that you looked like you were hugging biggrin
or as poje says it would be like a globe trotter back and forth nice but not a continuous motion more like a pendulum



Yeah but unfortunately it's quite delicate to do. Hard to do continuously, and not quite as elegant as it sounds due to bowing your head and having to raise your arms above your head. Stupid gravity.



Like this? Or to get it to go back with the minimum number of beats you still need to do 1 beat to change direction otherwise you need a stall


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Mynci
Mynci

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Posted:could you do a throw? like a burnoff but with less spin, the falling motion could allow to raise the arm and regain momentum after landing.



I'll bet it looks a bit messy you would need to do like a wave motion with your arms. (bit like that 1980's body popping...anybody seen durbs wink )

EDITED_BY: Mynci (1190113142)


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:sandy: no not caged at all. It's a continuous minimum steve where you form a scalextrix track with your arms. The staff is always on the top of your arms and the top of your shoulders. It's not a continuous caged steve...



Tim did two minimum steves in a row in leeds, with a bit of turning. You lay your hands over each other, and let the staff roll over the hands without doing a half beat, so the end that is closest to your head doesn't swap to the other end, like it does in a standard prayer steve, you know?



You have to get the minimum steve soooo solid to do it thou. cos the staff isn't visible for most of the move, and then it's very quick over your hands when you can see it, then you immediately have to duck your head again, and feel where the center point of the staff is.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:Touch Sandy, you do indeed to frontside steves with a throat wrap. I guess Ive only seen them really badly done. I always thought they were supposed to just cross from arm to arm and never bothered to learn it cause I thought it looked like crap. Hmm, maybe Ill give full steves a second chance.

And I cant learn minimal steves unless i cut off my hair. frown


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
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Total posts: 8737
Posted:You can wear a nice tight hat unless your hair is really long I used to be able to do them with long hair. but I admit it is harder...

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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simta
simta

compfuzzled
Location: hastings
Member Since: 11th Apr 2006
Total posts: 1182
Posted: Written by: entheogen


And I cant learn minimal steves unless i cut off my hair. frown



tis harsh but cutting hair off makes so much difference


"the geeks have got you" - Gayle

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:natalie portman was hot in V for Vendetta once she got her hair cut off.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Antti_Everything
Antti_Everything

addict
Location: Jrvenp, Finland
Member Since: 12th Aug 2003
Total posts: 446
Posted: Written by: mcp


natalie portman was hot in V for Vendetta once she got her hair cut off.



a smart answer... choose 1

a) Valerie is hot even with long hair
b) so that's what inspired you to cut yours!
c) it's a shame it didn't work for you
d) Antti is an idiot

Oh yeah. Contact staff and sh.t


Point your toes.

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: Antti_Everything


 Written by: mcp


natalie portman was hot in V for Vendetta once she got her hair cut off.



a smart answer... choose 1

a) Valerie is hot even with long hair
b) so that's what inspired you to cut yours!
c) it's a shame it didn't work for you
d) Antti is an idiot

Oh yeah. Contact staff and sh.t



Stupid anttti. I cut mine off because I wanted to be more like you.

Then you grew yours. Like a girlie hippy. d) for you.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:Um, I gotta go for e) Im much to chickensh!t to go through with it. I just cut off a good three inches, I mean, its still way past my shoulders, and Im completely freaking out that its too short.

At least now I can practice angel rolls with my hair in a bun without having to tilt my head to the side... as soon as I unlearn the bad habit that is.

Besides, just cause Natalie Portman can get away with it doesnt mean I would. My heads shaped funny. I'd look like a total idjit.


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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-sandy-
-sandy-

old hand
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 12th Jul 2004
Total posts: 716
Posted:Bah! whats all this talk of hair. This is a moves thread not a bloody hair salon! tongue

Ok, lets get back on track, i have a new matrix variation from playing at BrJC. Substitution matrix with your hands in prayer behind your head. You can either do a beat around your hands or not before doing the second half.

Anyone got any other suggestions?

Oh and Meg, i concur, continuous min beat not caged, yet another vid ive labeled wrong cos i wasnt thinking.


"Don't do it naked!"

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:the conveyor belt matrix?

Has an interesting twist... you do the bit where it goes around your hands, under your arm to do the half matrix, and then as it comes round onto your shoulder, you catch it on the back of your hand and go back into the conveyor belt yeah?

This is like a same hand matrix takeoff [as you would call it (possibly.)]

also, you can do the same on the other arm, so you're doing the half for the matrix that goes from the back of the neck to the front, but as it's coming under your armpit, you catch it with the back of the hand of the same arm. (prayer / takeoff stylee) do a quick handwrap to get you hand to the other side of the center point, and then you can put it back on the back of that same shoulder and 'complete' that half of the matrix. (or you can use it to complete the conveyor belt matrix or whatever.)

I find it easier to do it on this half of the matrix, the front to back half is a fair bit harder to manage this.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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-sandy-
-sandy-

old hand
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 12th Jul 2004
Total posts: 716
Posted:Nice. Thats a bit like one me and Tim have been working on (Tim more succesfully than me) where you start like a steve but before the staff gets to your elbow you do an elbow wrap (like a stevetrix but earlier in the move). From here you can either continue down your arm and across your shoulders or go back up your arm towards your hand. If you go back up to your hand you do a fig 8 going around your wrist and elbow.

btw meg, my mate just read your signiture and is currently rolling around on the floor, thanks biggrin


"Don't do it naked!"

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:I like to call that lassoing, cos I normally do it on the way down to a matrix out of the front half of a full steve. A wrist propellor, then an elbow propellor, then the matrix. Well it reminds me of lassoing.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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