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Ry
GOLD Member since Feb 2005

Ry

Gromit's Humble Squire
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 4496
Posted:I deleted the original post- if you care about HoP, you'll find out what everyone's on about smile



Edit**

Please refer to this thread for what the topic is about.


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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4993
Posted:im not technically a senior... not if i use this account.

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:its not about how many posts you have.

its not about how many videos you've made.

its not about how many meets you've organised.

its not about how long you've been a member of your local, national or the global spinning community.

its not about about how many photos you've taken (no matter how brilliant they are).

its not about how long you've been spinning.

its not about how old you are.

its not about how much you've spent in the shop.



its about how long you've been a member of hop.



that's it.



its an experiment with no solid hypothesis which (to geeks like me) sounds bad but its working out alright (bar this little hiccup wink ), if only for the fact that its making members who haven't posted in a long time post again.



at the moment, its main purpose seems to be to act as a wake up call to us lurkers who still come here but don't post very often and working out if anything can be done to fix that.



the people that are in there are mainly the people that used to post lots (comparitively - five years ago or so there were less people and hence far less posts) and don't any more.



the danger is that not posting, leads to not visiting the site any more.



if you think that trying to attract long-standing hop members back to the site (and i mean the whole of the site, not just the seniors lounge) is a bad thing, then we should definitely get rid of the seniors lounge.



just remember that the members that are posting are mainly those that saw it go from a shop and a message board, stayed with it through a number of years and through a multitude of changes (many more than those that have occurred in the last three years) to see it become the progressive community website it is today.



my question to those who feel excluded is this:

"how can you provide insight on how the hop community has evolved since its inception if you have only been a participating member for the later part of hop's life?"



the seniors lounge is an opportunity for malcolm to hear the voices that wouldn't be heard in a thread like this, voices that have seen the site go through a number of changes, and hear what they think has improved and what has deteriorated hop for them.



and as far as i know, it doesn't stop anyone making suggestions in the main forum on what they see as the future of hop and what they love/hate about it since they joined.



shrug



cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth

Total posts: 5814
Posted:Its interesting that this thread is still full of members who have been on the site a fair time, I am including Ry in this category . Why arent newer members responding?

Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

Delete

Kathain_Bowen


Kathain_Bowen

Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Total posts: 422
Posted: Written by: coleman

its an experiment with no solid hypothesis which (to geeks like me) sounds bad but its working out alright (bar this little hiccup wink ), if only for the fact that its making members who haven't posted in a long time post again.



Not to be a jerk or anything, but what hiccup are we talking about exactly? The fact that general population members found out that there was the potential for being denied access to an area on the forums just because they hadn't been a member since before 15,000 and got insulted/upset by it?

footinmouth Sorry. Had to have a Jersey moment.

At any rate, the experiment may seem to be working on one end... but, imho, it doesn't seem to be working on the other end if it has so many other members up in arms about it. How can you really call an experiment in bringing people together socially a success if it is starting to alienate other members of the group? Sure, you attract back older members, but potentially at the expense of current/new members. It just seems counter-productive to me.


meditate


"So long and thanks for all the fish."

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pounce
SILVER Member since Jan 2003

pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...

Total posts: 9831
Posted:on the flip side, by not keeping the forum, you keep the newer members happy but potentially at the expense of the older members. that's counter-productive too.

I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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GitasGuy


GitasGuy

Pooh-Bah
Location: Brisbane

Total posts: 2303
Posted:People its a "thread" thats it, no one has been killed, no country has been sent to war. There is no human rights abuse going on. So seriously get over it.

My girlfriend has access to it and i don't. So censored what!! its only become such a big deal due to a small minority bringing to the attention of the vast majority that wouldn't have even known it existed and would have live a happy life been none the wiser.

I haven't got access to the performers thread (which coincedently i only found out about after all this nonsense started) and there are not multiple threads about that saying how segregated we all feel.

Seriously people take a breath and think about the really important things in life. And if this is the most important than i suggest you push the power button on your computer and go and make some real tangible friends, one you can hug!!!!

hug bye


:admires giant wooden aeroplane: Its about time trees were good for something, instead of just standing their like jerks!!! ubblol ubbtickled

Homer rocks!!!! ubblol ubbrollsmile

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biggins
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

biggins

member
Location: In Bed

Total posts: 165
Posted:i just wanted to post ehre again and say that its really good that you put this thread back.



smile



I've had a bit of a rant and said my bit. I disagreed with that exclusive area on principal cos i believe that discussion between a community should be as open as possible. sadly, i'm a bit foolish and naive to think that frank and open communication can create a big difference in the world.



i also think it was a bit odd that i can go in there and potter about as i am "Senior" when, if it came down to it i havent exactly put lots of time or positivity into the forum, sure i have helpedout at the odd met and met lots of ppl thru HoP but i am hardly an "upstanding member of the community compared to some ppl that are not included.



Its also kind of important wth regards to getting feedback on a forum to ptetition as many ppl as possible then feedbacl/suggestionscan be made by all people (e.g. by including newer members you get the views of ppl who are mostly likely to have the most pertinent suggestions with regards suggestoins with regards to to getting started). talking good smile





 Written by: ]

So it must be a universal law then, that can't ever be changed? No. Hop is trying to be a better forum, that keeps ALL it's members interested. [/quote





well, thats not what i was saying really. i was just saying that, as you spend more time on a forum you start to see more and more of the same stuff. like doing the same crossword in the same newspaper you start to see the same quesions. Albeit-worded. thats all.



I'm not saying HoP isnt trying to improve. i see that it is and this is a starting process but i am questoining how it is being done.



http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/2005/11/20/charles_rules_of_online_forums

EDITED_BY: biggins (1189504113)


Wielding a Wooden Spoon

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted: Written by: Biggins

i also think it was a bit odd that i can go in there and potter about as i am "Senior" when, if it came down to it i havent exactly put lots of time or positivity into the forum, sure i have helpedout at the odd met and met lots of ppl thru HoP but i am hardly an "upstanding member of the community compared to some ppl that are not included.





Your member number is 2992.

2992 (as you well know) is < 15000

Thats why you have access.

(edit - i just noticed, you are 1111 members after me biggrin )



It has nothing to do with how much time or positivity you are putting in to the forum, or whether or not you are an "upstanding member of the community"



That is something lots of people are getting confused with.





 Written by: Coleman

its not about how many posts you have.

its not about how many videos you've made.

its not about how many meets you've organised.

its not about how long you've been a member of your local, national or the global spinning community.

its not about about how many photos you've taken (no matter how brilliant they are).

its not about how long you've been spinning.

its not about how old you are.

its not about how much you've spent in the shop.



its about how long you've been a member of hop.



that's it.



Delete

Kathain_Bowen


Kathain_Bowen

Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Total posts: 422
Posted: Written by: pounce


on the flip side, by not keeping the forum, you keep the newer members happy but potentially at the expense of the older members. that's counter-productive too.



There's no quick to the situation by just deleting the forum, as Doc Lightning had already commented. I believe he said that, if you keep the forum (or, at the very least, keep it the way it is), people like Ry will leave while, if you delete the forum, people like PK will leave.

I'm actually going to jump over to the other thread though, to address this and some of the other stuff you said, since you made a truly though provoking statement. ubbrollsmile


"So long and thanks for all the fish."

Delete

PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4993
Posted: Written by: Kathain_Bowen


 Written by: pounce


on the flip side, by not keeping the forum, you keep the newer members happy but potentially at the expense of the older members. that's counter-productive too.



There's no quick to the situation by just deleting the forum, as Doc Lightning had already commented. I believe he said that, if you keep the forum (or, at the very least, keep it the way it is), people like Ry will leave while, if you delete the forum, people like PK will leave.

I'm actually going to jump over to the other thread though, to address this and some of the other stuff you said, since you made a truly though provoking statement. ubbrollsmile



confused see my other reply to Doc... i aint going no where.... forum or no forum i couldn't careless...

ubblove


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

Delete

mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: me


So it must be a universal law then, that can't ever be changed? No. Hop is trying to be a better forum, that keeps ALL it's members interested.


 Written by: biggins


well, thats not what i was saying really. i was just saying that, as you spend more time on a forum you start to see more and more of the same stuff. like doing the same crossword in the same newspaper you start to see the same quesions. Albeit-worded. thats all.

I'm not saying HoP isnt trying to improve. i see that it is and this is a starting process but i am questoining how it is being done.

http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/2005/11/20/charles_rules_of_online_forums



Yeah, but happily the intelligence of a mob is less that that of any one of it's members... So I think malcolm was correct in just going ahead and doing it. That's how you get things done. And it's stimulated debate on how to improve hop, and in hop in general it would seem. I think there are many ways around those rules of online forums... I think they are tied in somewhat to the structure of a forum and changing that can change the activities that occur in a forum. Ie: that the rules aren't purely a product of the people and the social structure of a board, but are in part due to the coded functionality of the forum. I didn't say as much in the senior lounge, but I suggested things that would change the structure to make it better in ways that would make it more motivating for me to continue to post.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:to an extent I agree with Ed, I very rarely go in social anymore unless I see a post by someone I have run across on another section of the forum or already know. every now and then I'll pop in have a look maybe make 1 post then leave but mostly if I'm bored. I can see how people get bored of some of the longer running games, but I can also see the point of how you can get to know a little about people that way. shrug
I stay on HoP but look for the parts that interest me now.


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted: Written by: Kathain_Bowen


Not to be a jerk or anything, but what hiccup are we talking about exactly? The fact that general population members found out that there was the potential for being denied access to an area on the forums just because they hadn't been a member since before 15,000 and got insulted/upset by it?



okay, here's another angle:

the people posting in the senior lounge are those who rarely, if ever, post on the main boards any more.
many of these people have posted in the new forum and we're starting to find out the reasons why.
if we take it away, we just go back to those people not posting at all.

it seems somewhat nonsensical to me that taking away a forum because those without access are upset that they can't read what people in it have to say when the fact is, if access to the senior forum wasn't restricted, the posts that are in there wouldn't exist at all.

removing the senior forum would serve to once again relegate the voices of the longest-standing members of the hop community (those who are reluctant to speak up when confronted by a potential audience of over 10,000 people) to irrelevance.

cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4993
Posted:ditto

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

Delete

Kathain_Bowen


Kathain_Bowen

Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Total posts: 422
Posted:..... so.... what's so different between the 15,000 members you guys where talking to 3 years ago and the supposed 60,000 members today? If the veterans were all so comfortable with 15,000 people, why now the big issue? I mean, the human brain really has issues visualizing and comprehending the severity of any number over 8 (Try it. Most people cannot accurately picture individuals in a grouping above 8- it's weird). Sorry if I don't get the difference since the "seniors" forum is welcoming everyone up to member #15000..... and, last I checked, that's still a pretty large crowd..... as in a GINORMOUS crowd.





So.... I'm sorry. I'm just.... I'm done. You guys feel the way you do, and I feel the way I do. I still feel like there's an underlying issue the creation of this forum isn't addressing. In fact, I feel it's rather obscuring whatever issue is there that is driving away older members as well as potential new members. I tried to suggest compromises so we can continue to build a tight-knit community while continuing to offer a "senior" or "veterans" only area.... but I'm just, plain tapped out at the moment. The reasons for keeping the status quo and ignoring other factors just seem silly at the moment to me. Maybe that's just because I'm drained (it's been a really long day).


"So long and thanks for all the fish."

Delete

NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Why is this thread running completely parallel with the other one?

And the title certainly doesn't aptly explain the subject (as expressly required.)

Are there no mods anymore?

wink

It seems sad that some folks are missing things from one conversation because there are two.

This thread should be locked and everyone in it should be taxed.

wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:This new forum has made Cole post quite a bit.

Read his posts.

He speaks sense. smile


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Malcolm put it back here.
I don't know why. The other thread was started by Malcolm and has more information however it is his choice and I respect that. So it stands that they are running parallel, though I think this has more fighting. I am sure there are many good points being brought up in the middle of those attempting to make humor, make peace and those who are just being defensive and aggessive. We've seen it before.

Though, to tell you the truth NYC, I really can't back that last statement as I stopped reading them at the first couple of posts. The two threads can stand until Malcolm sees fit to change that imo. People can but heads and until I see violence and name calling...you get the idea. I am so sick of the temper tantrums, the fighting, the abuse that is not only going on in these forums but has actually leaked onto the "non-official" hop forums and elsewhere that I wash my hands of it all together.
My PM box was full.
My email box was full.
And honestly, this has been the most wearing debate on me in all of my 8 or so years working on HoP. And as you know NYC, there've been some doosies!

And since every single time I have done my job as a mod with this debate I have received more abuse than I have in my years on HoP for being an "unfair censor", an "unfair, bigoted elitist", an "ignorant, cold, heartless senior bitch" (yes those are all direct quotes) I just can't seem to care.

I'd rather focus on making HoP better (as per one of our other discussions) than wasting my energy on these arguements.

This is the first and I hope the last time I ever have to post anything like this here.
Whooo! Sorry, think I needed to vent

(Oh, and may I point out that my vent is posted here in Social, not in the Senior Lounge, that way no one can feel left out. rolleyes )


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: Pele


"ignorant, cold, heartless senior bitch"



I thought you liked it when I talked dirty.

ubbangel


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth

Total posts: 5814
Posted: Written by: NYC


Why is this thread running completely parallel with the other one?
And the title certainly doesn't aptly explain the subject (as expressly required.)

Are there no mods anymore?
wink
It seems sad that some folks are missing things from one conversation because there are two.
This thread should be locked and everyone in it should be taxed.
wink



Maybe because otherwise there is no explanation for disappearing threads....maybe because this was first..maybe because Malcolm wants it back..maybe he had had requests to reinstate it. shrug people will read both if they care.

Tax me.....bite me... kiss kiss kiss kiss


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

Delete

Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:I thought it should be brought back because it had a lot of valuble input on it and some of the people who had posted didnt look like they wanted to post it again. therefore I thought it was worth bringing back.

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth

Total posts: 5814
Posted:clap clap
Thanks Josh


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

Delete

tim_marston


addict


Total posts: 614
Posted:you lot need to burn more and rant less,

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:makes me think about a /rant offset... how we do that? wink

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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tim_marston


addict


Total posts: 614
Posted:ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol
you senior memebers dont half go on,perhaps its cos your all too old to burn
tongue


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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4993
Posted: Written by: tim_marston


ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol
you senior memebers dont half go on,perhaps its cos your all too old to burn
tongue



Speak for yourself there mister! wink weavesmiley


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Actually English is my 2nd lingo... I can't quite make sense of what he's talking about... I even spell each word out and can't.... shrug confused anyone?

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

Total posts: 10530
Posted:It translates roughly as "You senior members do talk a lot of old rubbish, don't you? I think it's because you're all too old to spin."

smile


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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tim_marston


addict


Total posts: 614
Posted:apologies for my boken english,i blame the parents dont you know!!

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pricklyleaf
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester

Total posts: 1365
Posted: Written by :Hop Moderation thread by newgabe



(Re: a 'hot' thread that was moved by someone (I'm guessing member rather than mod/admin to the senior lounge, thread has now been moved back)

No chance of that now cos I am not able to access the thread anymore.

Now about the 'retired' members lounge. Damned silly name for it if that's where active threads go, presumably to be discussed by active members. Private maybe.

But this is getting so I shall go somewhere else to find out what it takes to be 'senior' nowadays. Though I am not quite yet ready to retire.



I hate to be the one to kind of, redrag this up, but after seeing the above post, and one fairly similar in another thread, I though it was important to bring this back up. (As it has been already). The problem with issues that aren't dealt with properly, is they tend to come crawling back, like this.

Perhaps for now, it may be wise to somehow disable non-mods/admins from being able to move threads to the senior lounge?

Please could we have some answers now? Surely the lounge or whatever its called these days, has been around long enough to have judged what effect/ if any, its had.

I for one, still feel that it doesn't really help in issues that are existing now, when people are discussing whos more important/means more to the board/has contributed more etc. It sends out a message of, these are our exclusive members, which doesn't sit with me well at all.


Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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