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Forums > Social Chat > League against POI !!!!!

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mischivis
member
Location: London
Member Since: 17th May 2001
Total posts: 3
Posted:I have been juggling for ages and have just picked up POI.Something I noticed:At the juggling convention in Cardif there was a sertain snidness towards POI, not nasty just a weeny bit contemptuous, there is even a league against POI!!Why is this ?????

remember to be happy

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protozoa
member
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Member Since: 2nd Feb 2001
Total posts: 148
Posted:I dunno... jealousy, maybe?
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There is (or was, rather..I think they took it down) a "League Against Poi" web site for a while, but it was really just a joke & all in fun.Don't let it bother you. Everything under the sun has its detractors.-protie


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Superman
Superman

member
Location: Houston, Texas
Member Since: 13th Mar 2001
Total posts: 829
Posted:it is a sad truththat the world we live in is stilloverloaded with assholes. They have nothung better to do with their shallow lives than crap on someone elses beliefs, passtimes, race, whatever...this has been talked about before. (league A POI) people like that annoy me to no end. Instaed of starting a "league for saving the children" they spend their obvious freetime in more constructive ways.....excuse my french...fuck'em...take care of your own, do what you love to do as long as it doesnt hurt or jeapordize anyone...my $.02Super'------------------"Only the warrior that hears the call will know when to leave, Where to go" -unknown"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams"- Willy Wonka

Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear--not absence of fear.


- Mark Twain

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Last I knew it was a joke but....I would have to say it's jealousy for this reason:(For the most part)...Even if we hit ourselves we don't drop our poi and have to chase them down, and when they do happen to fly off our fingertips, it looks really neat.Jugglers drop all the time, have to chase the stuff, stop the flow and it just looks dumb when it happens!
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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gάrbǿ
gάrbǿ

addict
Location: Bristol / London / Norwich / C...
Member Since: 9th Jan 2001
Total posts: 521
Posted:Its because the people who set it up are ignorant, arrogant and are unwilling to grasp any concept that isn't their own.The world is full of people like that.What you have to remember is that the all the people here will not descriminate especially about something so trivial as this.Another funny thing is that they are all jugglers and yet the jugglers I have met are all fine about it and will join in etc and swap hint.Also many people here are jugglers.They suckpeace outgarbo
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------------------ quote:"Be the change"Mahatma Ghandi


be excellent to each other: safe:

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psychomonkey
member
Location: Kansas City, MO USA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2000
Total posts: 148
Posted:I think I've heard of them
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(You had to have been on the old board to get that one)Just relax, and do your own thing, just be sure th LAP doesnt get to people before you do [image]http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif">-PSM------------------[/image]-Alphonse Bertillon


One can only see what one observes, and one observes only things which are already in the mind.-Alphonse Bertillon

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Posted:Jugglers take the piss out of poi because it is quite easy to learn and a lot more limited than juggling. No disrespect but I poi and juggle and once you have the basics of poi the rest is pretty simple whereas juggling is a lot harder to master.As long as I'm getting paid to spin fire balls around I'm not going to complain!

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FireSpirit
FireSpirit

Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
Location: South Lake Tahoe
Member Since: 29th Mar 2001
Total posts: 743
Posted:I agree with Super on this one F#@$eM They are jealous!

FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!

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TallJuggler
member
Location: Texas, USA
Member Since: 1st Apr 2001
Total posts: 41
Posted:I think it is a confusion of what poi and juggling is. Are they the same or different. As Numpty said juggling is harder do learn and poi is far easier. So when a poi person comes in to a juggling conference and steals the attention away from the jugglers. How do you think they would feel? I am not taking sides here, I do both. But I think that those who work harder should get the most respect. I hate is when I do a lot of three ball tricks, and even go as far as 4 and 5 balls and some smart mouth kid and his freinds come in and he claims he can juggle and only tosses two balls in a circle. All jugglers know that that is wrong but he steals the attention from me. Who works harder here? Same thing has happened to me and poi. I guess I side with the jugglers because I have spent so much time doing it but I have better things to do them form a leguea. Poi adds a nice spice to my routine and I like doing it. Don't let them get to you. They are only doing this for attention. Looking for a fight even. Get over and lets have fun i our own little ways.------------------Oh LordForge me in the fire of your mightLet your flames burn higher and brighterMake me pure and holy in your siteAnd cleanse me with thy consuming fire

Oh LordForge me in the fire of your mightLet your flames burn higher and brighterMake me pure and holy in your siteAnd cleanse me with thy consuming fire

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ShawnF
member
Location: Springfield, MA - USA
Member Since: 16th Dec 2000
Total posts: 162
Posted:Just to interject something, I am one of those people that takes the word "juggling" in its broadest sense. I have on tape an old episode of a show called Amazing America, that had profiled one of the IJA conventions.One of the people said (somewhat paraphrasing) "Juggling is the manipulation of one or more inanimate objects that gives the person a feeling of glory and power." It always somewhat irks me if someone gets into a "something versus juggling" argument, because I usually think of both as being subsets of the same things.You can argue that poi is not as varied as some things, but then again you could say that poi is just another part of swinging things. If you learned poi, I should think that would make it much easier to learn staff, baton, club/knife swinging, some parts of yo-yoing, and various martial arts stuff.One thing to keep in mind is that there are so many basic skills at work. Someone who is already a club swinger will probably be able to pick up half the poi stuff in a half-hour because they already have most of the skills. It'd probably take a little longer to go the other direction because of issues of grips, but I would guess that a poi person would pick up club swinging much faster than someone who hand never swung before.Even things as simples as staying in tempo. Alternating versus simultaneous are issues both in poi and the simplest of throw ball juggling.There is always the whole thing about difficulty versus looks in any of these. For instance with throw-ball stuff, you can do a technical routine that (after an initial 30-seconds of awe) will bore people out of their minds. You can also keep people entertained for a half-hour with just 3 balls. This isn't to say that you can't entertain people with a technical routine, just that the sheer difficulty isn't what generally keeps people interested.You can't really judge the difficulty of something you haven't done. And things you don't know all seem the same (most people would have trouble seeing the difference between 5, 7, and 9 balls), and so making things look as different as possible is so important...It would be easy enough for a contact juggler to go "well anyone can pick up some basic 3-ball tricks in a week or so. I had to spend all of this time on cs, and so it is superior, etc.", but I don't think that'd be a good thing either.Anyway... sorry for babbling on and on. My main points are you're never wasting your time because skills are skills and will help you with other props if need be, and you need style no matter if what you're doing is easy or hard.And the spotlight issue is always hard, whether someone is taking it from you or whether you are tempted to take it from someone else. I guess if everyone in the world knew every skill, maybe it would be different, but then again maybe not. Most of the people in the world just never try to learn any of this stuff. If you can do it, no matter how easy or hard it is, you are still much farther than most...

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Posted:yesterday, at the river festival i put down a hat and juggled my crystal sticks (im going to call them that from now on b/c i dont know the difference between crystal and flower sticks) and twirled poi. i ended up making $13 in around 2 hours. not a whole lot, but i met alot of ppl and had a good time. anyway, my friends were sitting around watching me, and i would be juggling the sticks, and they would say "do the poi, it looks cooler" which may be true, and it may get me more money, but it was somewhat annoying because i first of all know alot more tricks with the sticks, am much better at them, spent alot more time learning them, and found them much more difficult to learn. i wasnt even very good at them until maybe 9 or ten months after i got them. with the poi, ive had tehm about 2 months and while not claiming to be superb, found that they were much easier to learn. perhaps that is because i started with the sticks and they gave me a natural advantage, but i just found it annoying that they wanted to see the poi so much more when i pretty much can do everything i know in a minute as opposed to going much longer with the sticks. i ended up just switching up whenever i got bored wiht one or the other. anyway, i am just saying that i can see why people would be annoyed at a show or whatever. but i think that in general most people are cool and respectful towards other peoples hobbies (i respect contact juggling, juggling, DJing, sticks, poi, popping, liquid dancing, even just rave dancing where you make it up as you go, any skill or hobby that anyone has taken the time to learn, or really enjoy). i dont look down on poi or anything like that, i just find it somewhat frustrating that people are so naive. anyway, if this league against poi thing is a joke (and it probably is), then hey, who cares. but if they are serious (which i kind of doubt) then they really need to reevaluate their lives. not only are they poor sportsmen, but they are arrogant, ignorant, and are limiting themselves, their growth, friendships, and exposure to things that they may find interesting. basically they need to simmer down and realize that life is annoying. learn to be apathetic when the time calls for it, and go make friends with the ppl they are harassing. i bet they would be amazed at what they would learn by embracing other art forms. even one they previously hated such as poi.joshGod bless

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ShawnF
member
Location: Springfield, MA - USA
Member Since: 16th Dec 2000
Total posts: 162
Posted:Yeah, that is a good point. I guess when it comes down to it, some stuff is more impressive than others, for various reasons.Like one thing I've always enjoyed is Jitter Rings, which I've found are really fun to do, and I can do a fair amount of tricks with them. But I think they are more fun to do than they are to watch, especially from a stage. It is hard to see why you're doing what your doing, if it is hard, etc. It just looks like you're fiddling with some metal rings (and if you haven't seen them in action, you have even less of an idea what I'm talking about..hehe).I think ball/contact juggling is nice in that you are doing something amazing with so simple or ordinary an object. You can juggle apples, baseballs, billiard balls, etc.Yo-yos might fascinate with thoughts of their childhood, and things being done with them that they didn't think possible.Fire poi, juggling knives, anything that looks dangerous has immediate appeal.And visibility... people on stage usually juggle big bright balls. It just looks nicer than some little dull-colored ones. Poi with tails looks very large and colorful and fast.The sticks would tend to be more intricate and smaller and so have less big impact. But if your friends were watching you day after day and got more familiar, then they'd probably appreciate the sticks more. But it is something that does vary a lot from people to people like how some people love certain tricks and others won't get anyting out of it...After doing so much stuff myself now, I guess what fascinates/impresses me the most now is seeing people with "careless ease", who really seem to know what they're doing and make it look easy, even if it isn't, no matter what it is they're doing.
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Posted:Just so you know not all the juggling world is so closed-minded about poi, the latest JUGGLE from the IJA has a "Teach-In" (instructions and diagrams) on the "Cross-Follow for Swingers", aka the "weave". They are planning to follow-up with "Reverse Cross-Follow" and "Fountains". As for me (started juggling first then discovered poi), I group all this stuff together under "object manipulation"- its a pretty broad group and even includes tops, yo's, and kendama and in general, I like it all!eis

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Posted:wrong sig last post should be--qm

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Superman
Superman

member
Location: Houston, Texas
Member Since: 13th Mar 2001
Total posts: 829
Posted:all i know is i am impressed with anyone that has a skill that i do not posses.I may not want to learn it, but i am still impressed to a certain degree.And as far as people doing Poi, and attracting more attention..first of all, what are we? 2yrs old. "I worked harder, i deserve more of the attention"You think the person spinning didnt log countless hours outside & bashing them selves in the back of the head and face doesnt count as working hard to further themselves in their "art" of choice? And thats exaclty what all of this is, visual ART. I think the Mona Lisa is an ugly Ho. I'd rather go check out an Esher painting myself. You think Leonardo Da Vinci cares? (when he was alive)Any statement of that nature belittles anyone that spends their time trying to create. Do it for yourself, not for someones attention. Unless you do it for a living. But then i guess that just means your routine is getting stale. Dont get pissy, just take your talent to the next level. Challenge yourself..This is very apparent in the circles of magic. Remember the guy that exposed all the secrets to the basic magic tricks?? he did it because magicians were a dime a dozen, and the tricks were not entertaining anymore. Now magicians have to take it to the "next level". Dont get mad, get better.Some of you guys said it yourself. Poi is easy to pick up on for those of you that have juggling backgrounds. What about the ones that dont? Also...hoe ,any people have you seen juggle? Juggles are everywhere. Poi is (at least i think) is starting to boom. people are lighting up everywhere. But the thing is, youreally dont see it that much. Its new to people. It "looks" more dangerous. Im not taking anything away from those of you who juggle. I wish i could juggle. Im just stating what the average person that cant perform in anyway are thinking, thats all..Again, if youre doing it for attention, you need to reevaluate why you do it...my $.02....I luv yoose guys.. [image]http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif">Super'------------------[/image]"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams"- Willy Wonka[This message has been edited by Superman (edited 22 May 2001).]

Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear--not absence of fear.


- Mark Twain

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Dr.NoodleHead
member
Location: The Giant Mushroom
Member Since: 22nd Mar 2001
Total posts: 170
Posted:Hehe [image]http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif">[/image]Manipulating wildly...Noods
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Fish are just like trees except they move and they're invisible

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Kat
Kat

Pooh-Bah
Location: London
Member Since: 13th Dec 2000
Total posts: 2211
Posted:I have seen plenty of jugglers. It never made me want to learn. The first time I saw Poi I knew I had to try it. Poi might be easier than juggling, but juggling is more about tricks and poi is about dance. I think that's why most people enjoy watching poi more than someone juggling because it isn't just about admiring someone's skill at pulling off amazing tricks. I think if somebody playing with poi just stood there pulling off amazing looking technical tricks then people would get bored. I like juggling and after starting poi I am more inclined to learn although given the choice between a staff and clubs/balls I would choose the staff.Juggling might be techincally superior and it sucks that they work so hard to be overshadowed by people who pick up poi quite easily, but that's the breaks!------------------"London is a city coming down from its trip and there's going to be a lot of refugees" - Danny,Withnail & I

Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.

- W B Yeats

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Twist
member

Member Since: 4th Apr 2001
Total posts: 160
Posted:basically i figger it this way...a less than average fire dancer is still sexy as hell while you've gotta be a damn good juggler to get it workin'.heheh... it's like the kid's on the math team being jealous of the football players..."but look, what we're doing is so much HARDER and more important..."i can say that cuz i was on the math team, y'know...

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Posted:whoah, superman, simmer down, no need to get so upset over something so trivial.also, does it really matter what your motives are? if you learn poi for attention or kicks you still spend the same amount of work to get the skill down. i dont think that what the motivation is is really that important, more the quality of the product and the effort put into it. for example i did a video project for my spanish class, i spent between 35 and 40 hours on it, and in the end it was very spectacular, with background music, transition effects, subtitles, and a few special effects too (its amazing what you can think up with a simple editing program). but the day we presented it was after i took my final (im a senior). so it most likely wouldnt count on my grade (i talked the teacher into it though), however i still put that effort into it to make it worth the while. on the other hand, there were my two partners on the project, one didnt put as much time into it b/c he had to work, but the other was with me the whole time. i did it because i enjoyed it, he did it because it counted as a grade. we ended up with the same product and effort, and despite our different motivations i believe that the product was just as impressive.

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Posted:Juggling is harder?I've started juggling three balls about 1 1/2 months ago. I really enjoy it, but I can say this - the rate at which I'm getting new tricks is far far faster than it was for Poi.Another big difference between Poi'ing and juggling is..Juggling...is only about the tricks. but Poi'ing is about Dance ppl! no matter what you think - you are not a hot poi'er simply cuz you spent the last week practicing 5-beat weave and thats all you can do. (at least in my opinion). I've met poi'ers like that - who think that poi'ing is the sum total of the number and difficulty of the tricks you know (which I'm guessing a lot of Jugglers seem to think is the case)...ok doing the standard tricks with 2 poi is not so hard. most ppl with conviction will get it sooner or later...but have you tried a poi and a staff? how about 2 staves? how about 4 poi (and not the jerkoff swing em all together style either) - I'd wager that the difficulty of twirling 4 opposed poi is enough to make almost all experienced twirlers give up on trying to learn it. just like a lot of jugglers give up at 4 balls...Josh

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:I think it depends on the order you learn them. I tried juggling before poi and it was a sad thing to see. I learned poi. I tried juggling after poi and there really weren't many issues then, but the moves are easier.Poi takes more concentration for me because there is the tangle factor, juggling you can just drop and back away from.It all depends on who you are and how you learn. No right, no wrong just individual style.
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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ShawnF
member
Location: Springfield, MA - USA
Member Since: 16th Dec 2000
Total posts: 162
Posted:Yeah, and I think a lot of it can also have to do with learning the "right" way. As always, a lot of stuff works differently for different people, but there is generally always some common pitfalls that help a lot if they are avoided.I would guess that a ton of people get turned off to juggling, by seeing a cartoon of a clown throwing a ton of balls around in a circle and trying to copy it. Who would guess that that is actually one of the more difficult tricks, and an easy one to get bad habits from?That's why sites like this are so important. It gives people a way to get started and a place to ask questions. And one thing that I've found to be so important... is that while all of these things take practice and there generally is no "magic bullet", at the same time, if someone is doing something fundamentally wrong, they may not get anywhere and will probably eventually just give up. Never neglect even the "obvious" stuff, because that often messes people up...Anyway... that's my bit..
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