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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:Intense experiences! that's why we all twirl poi, why we spin staff, why we throw ourselves down stairways.
okay some of us.

So it's like this: I've just walked away from the most *intense* film i've ever seen, and ya know what? There's gotta be heaps of other HoP'ers who can't relate to reality cus their head is still stuck in the matrix, blown there by watching one film. If the ultimate aim of art is to elicit a response, -emotional, physical, flatulent- then this collection of special effects, script and budget are more, much more than the sum of it's parts!
So the wachowski brothers have overcome my cynicism with hollywood by packing $100mil of special fx and ripped off heaps of cool william gibson (or was that Mel?) cyber-philosophy in 2:20 minutes of celluloid. A movie experience so awesome to me, that i can't think straight!! Now i'm like Cartman after he saw the Terrance and Phillip movie!

**** Spoiler warning!! ****
only kidding, but if anyone's gunna reveal stuff about the film, making this sealed warning section could be a good protocol to adopt.
If ya read this in any case, for shame!
**** END Spoiler!! ****

So how are ya coping?!? movies aren't meant to make me sweat this much while watching!! share your experience! (plus reassure me that i'm not too excitable - WHAT's THAT you got?!? a SNAKE!?! argh get it away from me, oh no it's just the mirror...*ahem*)

review your viewing!

MORE than a movie! (..it's a sequel!)


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arsn
arsn

How do you change this thing???
Location: Behind the couch...
Member Since: 7th Mar 2002
Total posts: 1903
Posted:*****SPOILERS and info, ENTIRE POST, plus a bit of a rant if ya think about it...*****

First off, I need to say my life is now only one movie away from being complete. No other movie, that I know of, has been able to make so many people think, "Hey, could this really be happening???. Could we all be connected into just one large cyber system. Could the real world be just a rubble-strewn wasteland, and we just don't know it".

What really blew my mind was to find out about all the multi-camera action shots and the 2,500 SFX shots (compared to 412 in the first). Plus the Kung-fu battles and the motorcycle scene that tops even The Blues Brothers for ludicrous numbers of car wrecks.

quote: Originally quoted by Kinudin (Soul Fyre)
The freeway scene? I was on the edge of my seat the whole time with suspense running through my head. That didn't even happen to me on LoTR I or II. Problem: The Free way scene required closing a major freeway for three months.

Solution: Build a motorway. A loop just over three kays long. Complete with on-ramps, fly overs and a lane dividers. A snip at just $US300,000 per half a kay.

And they detailed this right down to the thrown coke cans laying across the road.

But what I'm looking forward to is...
**** Spoiler warning!! ****
The rubble-strewn wastelands of the real world, where the climactic battle in Revolutions takes place - a 17 minute sequence that cost about two-thirds of the budget of the first Matrix alone
**** END Spoiler!! ****

By the way... The Cruellest of Cliffhanger Award goes to...



I can't hear you... I have a banana in my ear.

"You mean I'll have to use my brain?... but I use staff!!!" ~ ben-ja-men

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Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:wow maybe that wasteland scene will have more of the exoskeleton (or multiple exoskeletons)

Or maybe that exoskeleton is just a small sentry unit they use inside instalations. Maybe they have 30foot battlemechs they were hideing someplace on the surface. To fight the 30 foot battlemechs the machines have!

If you haven't noticed im a total glutton when it comes to battletech/mechwarrior and although mech combat in the matrix isn't exactly the same thing as the battletech movie I have always wanted, It's the next best thing.


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Mistress Aurora
Mistress Aurora

Hot Schtuff
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
Member Since: 19th Jan 2003
Total posts: 1032
Posted:I saw the movie at 430 and just got out a lil bit ago. I liked it...Especially after reading some of yalls posts. I sat there and understood some things better, and saw some of yalls oppinions of the different scenes.Like the Zion dance/sex scene Dio mentioned above. I could see what he was xplaining when Trenity and Neo were getting fleshy with each other. The camera showed their human and machine sides and how they were both connected together.

I liked the movie, but damnit I wish they would not just stop it at a critical moment like they do in the LOTR(Lord of the Rings). But I guess that is how they keep audiences coming back. And I guess what better place to stop a movie and say "To Be Concluded".



RISK: Do not follow the common path; Go where there is no path and leave a trail.

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Paddy
back from the dead...sort of
Location: 4341'N 7938'W
Member Since: 23rd Feb 2002
Total posts: 884
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Pele'sWhippingBoy:
I think the "ghosts" are viruses. I heard it mentioned somewhere.Aren't the ghosts, um, ghosts? I thought for sure that someone in the movie (the Oracle?) explained that ghosts, vampires, werewolves, etc, were all simply programs that have broken free of the matrix's rules and run independently inside of it. Hence, the henchmen of French program had fangs, and stuff like that.

The virus of the movie would be Smith...and the ghosts don't act anything like he does.


Re: the movie being boring and contrived:

Astar, I just searched this page and I didn't find one claim that the movie was original, so don't say that's what people are "raving" if they're not. Yes, it borrows from other places, but EVERY book and movie borrows from ones that have come before it. Nothing is entirely "ground breaking." Every idea is a mix of many things that have gone before, rendered according to contemporary ideals. That mix can make something unique, even if it isn't original, per se.

Yes, the ideas and philosophy discussed in the matrix (free will, nature of reality, dependence on machines, etc) have been thought of before, but rarely are they mixed together in a way that can form a cohesive story. Maybe people haven't read as much as you have, but keep in mind that dense philosophy isn't everyone's cup of tea. This movie makes those ideas accessable to all by presenting them in a way that relates to terms we are all familiar with (computers and the interaction with computers). Having not encountered them before doesn't mean that one is on drugs. Couple the movie's ideas with stunning aesthetic beauty, and I'd say that it's pretty damn mindblowing...not as much so as the first one, but hey, it's still an amazing movie.

//Edit: sorry, when I type a lot, I tend to leave entire words out of sentences...

[ 22. May 2003, 15:59: Message edited by: Paddy ]


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i8beefy2
i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA
Member Since: 24th Mar 2003
Total posts: 674
Posted:Oh, but I must admit, if my theory about how this movie ends is true, I think they did a better job than the original movie... when it was called "The 13th Floor". But Dio, I see what your saying about that scene now. Well said my friend. I must have still been inebriated to miss that... Especially when they dedicated a whole scene to that philosophical point of interdependance on machinery, etc. right before/after that (whichever).

I have to say I agree that the fight scenes just seemed like filler. There was like 15 minutes of plot/philosophy injected between them. If Neo is that good, it would have been cooler to just see him drop guys in one punch or somethin.


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Pele'sWhippingBoy
member
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
Member Since: 19th Jun 2001
Total posts: 442
Posted:MiSsFrOg19, the heroes name is Neo not Neal. I just thought you'd like to know so that in the future you can talk about the movie with greater clarity.

TheBovrilMonkey, Neo did use his mad skills. Right at the beginning he tried and the Agent stood up to them. He remarked "Hrm, Upgrades." If you'll note he also was the only one capable of handling the agents still. We watched Morpheus get his butt kicked on the top of the truck, yet Neo took on dozens at a time.

I agree that he flew too many times. However, the comment on him acting like Superman is not exactly necessary. Link even mentioned that "he's doing the Superman thing again."

I did like that they showed how Neo perceives things. He can see the programs and code in all things. So that certain programs look different to him. That was neat.


FYI: I am not Pele. If you wish to reply to me and use a short version of my name, use: PWB.

English? Who needs that? I'm never going to England. - Homer Jay Simpson

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Paddy:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pele'sWhippingBoy:
[qb]
Yes, it borrows from other places, but EVERY book and movie borrows from ones that have come before it. Nothing is entirely "ground breaking." Every idea is a mix of many things that have gone before, rendered according to contemporary ideals. That mix can make something unique, even if it isn't original, per se.heh heh kinda reminds me of an episode of a philosophy show i watch: south park.
in the episode 'Simpsons already did it' where the protagonist 'Butters' realises that all of his evil plots have been already been atttempted on 'The Simpsons'
The lesson was: it's ok not to be the very first!

in other news, I want my matrix collectable fire stick!


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MiSsFrOg
member
Location: Oceanside, CA USA
Member Since: 30th Aug 2001
Total posts: 187
Posted:PWB thank you for correcting me
Non-Https Image Link
but i was really tired like i stated in my post... i wasnt awake when i was writing.... and besides i was watching something on tv at that time on neil diamond.... so excuse me for being tired like you never make mistakes....geeze

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Its not easy being green....

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Pele'sWhippingBoy
member
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
Member Since: 19th Jun 2001
Total posts: 442
Posted:LOL, hey Bender, thanks for the quote. But it wasn't me that said it, it was Paddy. I generally don't say anything that profound.

And MiSsFrOg19, I thought you were only tired during the movie. I didn't know you were tired while posting too. Neil Diamond? j/k

I liked the Monkey butt smiley, that's funny.


FYI: I am not Pele. If you wish to reply to me and use a short version of my name, use: PWB.

English? Who needs that? I'm never going to England. - Homer Jay Simpson

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:I caught the 'Hmm, upgrades' bit but that's not a good enough explanation for me.
The final fight with Smith in the first had Neo moving so fast his arm was blurring, and he was acting like it was nothing special.

When he's fighting the loads of smiths and the girl sees it, Neo is still moving the same speed as he normally does.
If there was any moment he needed to be moving his fastest it would be that whole fight, and not just the running around the pole bit (that whole staff section was one of the bits I liked most btw )

Also, When Neo was fighting the old programs - I'm assuming that since they're old and in hiding, they hadn't had the upgrades so should have been even more of a walkover than they were.
In fact, since Morpheus almost took one of them out in the car when he could barely move, Neo should have been able to do it blindfolded with both legs tied together.
He should also have been able to get through the door before it was shut, but then they wouldn't have been able to throw in the nod to Dracula when he flies out of the castle

Anyway, my main problem with the fight scenes were that there were far too many of them and all consisted of a bit of kung-fu, then slow motion, then some more kung-fu with a bit of slow motion thrown in for good measure. There just seemed to be no urgency about them either - not even the car chase had be anywhere near the edge of my seat.
Having said that, the way they got around it looking really fake with only one or two people attacking while everyone else stands around was nice. The timing for everyone to stand up and attack straight away just as another attacker goes down must have taken some work.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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MiSsFrOg
member
Location: Oceanside, CA USA
Member Since: 30th Aug 2001
Total posts: 187
Posted:yah PWB neil diamond...dont ask...lol
its ok you cant help but correcting me... everyone corects eachother... i should have said that i was tired while i was watching the movie and while i was posting... you see i got home at 1 am that morning and when i was typing that i hadent slept yet... i said last night that i saw the movie which i meant like a few hours before i was posting that... i should have been more clear... sorry
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Its not easy being green....

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:****SPOILER****
Frodo destroys the ring.
****END SPOILER****


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Pele'sWhippingBoy
member
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
Member Since: 19th Jun 2001
Total posts: 442
Posted:I agree that Neo wasn't cool enough. I think he should've done some much wilder things with his powers. Like rewriting the programs for the agents or something.
Oh well. I'm just glad I didn't pay to see it.
Thank you to usenet groups (alt.binaries.movies)


FYI: I am not Pele. If you wish to reply to me and use a short version of my name, use: PWB.

English? Who needs that? I'm never going to England. - Homer Jay Simpson

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Dio
Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA
Member Since: 11th Jul 2002
Total posts: 729
Posted:quote: The plot is contrived and stupid. If you haven't contemplated ALL the points that are so clumsily made in the movie then I just don't know what to say. Have you never watched any movies before or read any books? Or do you only watch wrestling and the mortal kombat series of movies and read the sun tabloid? Otherwise I don't see how any of the "philosphy" in this movie could be foreign to you. None of it was ever very ground breaking in the first place. It's mostly common sense really. If it blows your mind maybe you should stop saturating it with drugs. There are not many movies that address new or revolutionary themes out there, my friend. Almost every given philosophy has been addressed in cinema form, but the issue doesn't lie with whether the viewer has been exposed to that philosophy, it's the way in which that philosophy is portrayed - it happens all the time that a director will take an old story, or an old situation, and put an entirely new spin on it through his or her work. Even the movie "Star Wars" - a movie universally accepted as awesome - borrowed elements and styles from older films. But does that make it any less valuable as entertainment? I doubt anyone would say yes to that.

And the suggestion that "if you enjoyed this movie you are on drugs" (paraphrased) was rather offensive, please try to keep comments civil here. Not all Matrix fans are drug abusers.

quote: Also Dio why can't they make political statements??? It's a damn movie. You know the collective product of several artisans known as directors, writers, producers, actors etc...
They can make any political statement they want. If they want to declare hitler as the greatest guy in the world I say fine. Because it's art.

This was a flame towards you but Ill just leave a quote of what you said The Matrix isn't a movie involving any sort of political opinions, and I specifically said that it may have been a coincidence. Injecting political opinions into a movie about fantasy is inappropriate in that those opinions don't mesh with the story or characters. Whether I agree or disagree with their opinion is irrelevant, I was just saying that the movie wasn't about opinions on George Bush and Adolf Hitler, and if they tried to worm their own message into a movie inappropriately then shame on them, slap on the back of the hand, naughty naughty, etc... I still found it to be a kick ass movie

Were you in a bad mood when you posted?


What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

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serina17
member
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 5th Jul 2002
Total posts: 41
Posted:I saw The matrix twice. The first tim ewhen it came out with a whole bunch of people ( from my youth group ) and the second time well there wasn't much else on at the time. I loved it. But bit too many Agent Smiths for me lol. I stayed around after the credits and saw like 5 minutes of Matrix Revolutions the third one it's gonna be good.

so is everyone these days, although i only know of Bender and Arsn.


---------------------------------------------I Will Be The Most Powerful Jedi Ever.---------------------------------------------

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Pink...?
Pink...?

Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Location: Over There
Member Since: 6th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6140
Posted:I loved the movie! But can't believe they ended it in such a cliffhanger! Grr...

It made me think about the whole cause and effect thing. I do agree with whoever said (can't remember) that it is a lot like the 13th floor but a lot better and the Matrix is more dramatic and it makes you think a more.

And i agree with Lightning...Keanu Reeves naked was a bonus! And his coat was awsome!

The down side of the movie - not enough pink in it (you didn't think i could go a whole post without mentioning pink did you?)

Alice


Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...

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Pele'sWhippingBoy
member
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
Member Since: 19th Jun 2001
Total posts: 442
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Pink Poi:
[QB] I loved the movie! But can't believe they ended it in such a cliffhanger! Grr...Okay, no offense, but you knew this was part 2 of a 3 part movie set didn't you? They've been talking about it being a trilogy for a while. Trilogies always leave on a cliff-hanger. It's their purpose I think.
I told my friend (before he saw it) that they revealed that Morpheus is Neo's father. He didn't believe me but he got upset that I was going to reveal anything to him.
Also, tell people that Morpheus ends up frozen in carbonite. That should be fun.

I ended up watching it in the theatre and I liked it even less. I keep thinking that it sucks that Neo didn't teach anyone else how to have cool powers. One of the joys of cracking a video game is telling your friends the cheat codes.
i.e.: up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, Start.
I also think he should learn how to crack other people's code. Heck, agent Smith altered "Mr. Anderson" so that he couldn't speak. "The One" should be able to do all sorts of cool stuff. Flying and fighting should only be the start.
For those of you who used to play Doom (original) remember this code: idspispopd? It would let you walk through walls. In other games, walk through walls codes lets you fly in any direction the game supports. Or how about idkfa, iddqd (also from Doom)? One gives all keys, weapons, and armor. The other gives invulnerability.
I think Neo should've figured these things out and told the others. Imagine how differently the fight with the hundred Smiths would have gone if Neo had these codes. Stand still ignoring the punches, then hold out a big block of explosives (C4?) and set ot off. Smith's go flying and Neo dusts off his coat.

Maybe he should try that take-over trick that Smith does? Stick his hand in Smith and re-write him. Make him wear a pink suit and be friendly to the Zion humans.


FYI: I am not Pele. If you wish to reply to me and use a short version of my name, use: PWB.

English? Who needs that? I'm never going to England. - Homer Jay Simpson

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Pink...?
Pink...?

Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Location: Over There
Member Since: 6th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6140
Posted:Ok shamefully i admit i didn't actually know it was a trilogy

But i do like the idea of Mr Smith wearing a pink suit. That would suit me just fine!


Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...

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serina17
member
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 5th Jul 2002
Total posts: 41
Posted:lol i like pink somtimes. I knew there was a third sequel to the second one, just forgot.

---------------------------------------------I Will Be The Most Powerful Jedi Ever.---------------------------------------------

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Aalathea
member
Location: Massachusetts, US
Member Since: 30th Oct 2002
Total posts: 80
Posted:I'm kinda gonna rant now...

My first reactions to this movie were not very positive. I did also feel like is was a big commercial (as i8beefy2)said. i just felt like it was selling the whole look of the first movie and concept rather than actually continuing the story in a very successful way. i thought it was painfully obvious that the creators/directors etc. were very aware of exactly what people liked about the first one and thus what they should be putting into this one to meet everyone's expectations. i think my biggest problem was that i thought the plot was very important, but at times this movie seemed to just be little bits of plot between fight scenes, which i think sort of cheapened the whole thing. i think the overall plot is fine, but i had problems with the way some of the points were actually executed.

my other problem was the huge amounts of cheesy philosophy, as noted by others. it just felt like they were trying to shove this stuff in your face so hard. but i think that its sort of ok that they did this, because personally i spend a lot of time thinking about philosophy, but i'm guessing that most people don't have the time or interest or something. so i think this movie/trilogy will do a lot to advance philosophy's place amongst people who perhaps just haven't really been exposed to it much.
i just noticed paddy also made this point, so um, i second that then.

i also was very skeptical of the apropriateness of the dance scene, as i thought they were just adding sex to their arsenal of ways to sell the movie. but i really like dio's point about it being about humanness in the face of the machines.
i guess i was just kinda bitter because i really wanted to like the movie. most of my friends thought that the first one was the greatest thing on two wheels, and i did not. i was hoping the second one would redeem it. i guess i just am annoyed that people think its so groundbreaking and original. no, no one really said that on this board, but that describes a lot of people's opinions who i talk to.
and here the movie was hyped up to a disgusting degree. maybe that makes more people go to see it, which i guess is the main purpose, but i think it raises people's expectations so that they don't actually enjoy the movie as much as they might have. which just annoys me about consumer culture that things often have to work like this.
ok, i'm going to stop typing now before this turns into another conversation entirely.


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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:heheh hey serina, are your gang gunna dress up for matrix3?
te hee


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BurningByron
member
Location: Australia
Member Since: 10th May 2002
Total posts: 340
Posted:I think its funny how many people go to a movie to judge it. They pay money to be judgemental. You see it all the time, people walking out of cinema's bitching about how the movie wasnt up to their 'holier than thou' expectations. I say drop it! Enjoy everything for what it is! You can choose to see the matrix for the beautiful work of art it can be seen as, or you could make an infinate number of negative judgements about it. I can look at a rose and say "too thorny" and dismiss the whole rose, or I could observe and enjoy the perfect beauty of the rose and love instead of judge its existance.

HOW TO FLY 101:
step 1. Throw your self at the ground.
step 2. Miss.

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:"Despite the high technology and fabulous effects of the movie, it explicitly handles the issue of existence and creation, which are related to the three divine religions, which we all respect and believe in."
-Egyptian censorship board
meep! they banned it!!


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