Forums > Technical Discussion > Camcorders - 3CCD vs 1080HD
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
Er - yeah, as the title says really.
My old Mini-DV camcorder is kaput, and i'm looking at getting a new one. As with all technology, it's all moved on from when I were a lad.
The only thing I vaguely remember is 3CCD kicks ass compared to standard single CCD camcorders (also usually costs about £500 more), but they're now starting to appear in the sub £300 price bracket.
But now there's also 1080 (sometimes with an 'i') HD cameras in that price range too...
Am I right in thinking 3CCD gives better colour definition, whereas the 1080 have higher digital resolution?
In terms of general use, what's the pro's/con's of either of these.
I'm generally a little wary when you get "top end" features in lower price brackets as it generally means they've sacrificed everything under the sun to squeeze the cool stuff in - but then with digital editing being so easy these days, aside form hitting record, a bit of optical zoom, and general ease-of-use, does it matter if they've sacrificed funky features to squeeze the 3CCD in?
If anyone can reccomend a camcorder, preferably sub £200, £300 if it's really worth it, please do so
Thank-you-please
Er - yeah, as the title says really.
My old Mini-DV camcorder is kaput, and i'm looking at getting a new one. As with all technology, it's all moved on from when I were a lad.
The only thing I vaguely remember is 3CCD kicks ass compared to standard single CCD camcorders (also usually costs about £500 more), but they're now starting to appear in the sub £300 price bracket.
But now there's also 1080 (sometimes with an 'i') HD cameras in that price range too...
Am I right in thinking 3CCD gives better colour definition, whereas the 1080 have higher digital resolution?
In terms of general use, what's the pro's/con's of either of these.
I'm generally a little wary when you get "top end" features in lower price brackets as it generally means they've sacrificed everything under the sun to squeeze the cool stuff in - but then with digital editing being so easy these days, aside form hitting record, a bit of optical zoom, and general ease-of-use, does it matter if they've sacrificed funky features to squeeze the 3CCD in?
If anyone can reccomend a camcorder, preferably sub £200, £300 if it's really worth it, please do so
Thank-you-please
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
BRONZE Member
Member
38 posts
Location: USA
Member
38 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
Ready for your science lesson?
CCDs are the little things in cameras that sense color. A single CCD camera can only scan one color at a time and mash all the colors together to create something that resembles the original color (think of zooming in on a comic pook and seeing all the little dots).
A 3-ccd will scan all three base colors (RGB) by splitting them with a prism and each color gets sent to their respective CCDs. Then it's recombined to make a full RGB pattern per pixel.
A standard Defintion camera will get you a resolution of 480i, which is interlaced, and scans odd lines first, and then even lines (why older TVs had the H-align and Vert-align). 1080p is progressive scan meaning it scans images from top to bottom instead of every other line. Most computer monitors and all LCDs use Progressive scan.
The drawback to Progressive scan is the line rate is halved compared to an interlaced scan, but line rates are so impressive, there's really no distinction anymore.
so in short, Yes, 3ccd is better image quality, and 1080 is a higher resolution.
Ready for your science lesson?
CCDs are the little things in cameras that sense color. A single CCD camera can only scan one color at a time and mash all the colors together to create something that resembles the original color (think of zooming in on a comic pook and seeing all the little dots).
A 3-ccd will scan all three base colors (RGB) by splitting them with a prism and each color gets sent to their respective CCDs. Then it's recombined to make a full RGB pattern per pixel.
A standard Defintion camera will get you a resolution of 480i, which is interlaced, and scans odd lines first, and then even lines (why older TVs had the H-align and Vert-align). 1080p is progressive scan meaning it scans images from top to bottom instead of every other line. Most computer monitors and all LCDs use Progressive scan.
The drawback to Progressive scan is the line rate is halved compared to an interlaced scan, but line rates are so impressive, there's really no distinction anymore.
so in short, Yes, 3ccd is better image quality, and 1080 is a higher resolution.
Who wants to see a monkey on fire?
GOLD Member
addict
694 posts
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
addict
694 posts
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
Posted:
Why do you need such a high resolution? Ive got a camera (well my mate has) that records at 640x480 30fps, its a Canon powershot A540. It records at 100mb a minute though so all the vids need to be either saved in a lower res or changed somehow anyway
What do camcorders do that are so special? You can get a powershot A540 for around £70
Why do you need such a high resolution? Ive got a camera (well my mate has) that records at 640x480 30fps, its a Canon powershot A540. It records at 100mb a minute though so all the vids need to be either saved in a lower res or changed somehow anyway
What do camcorders do that are so special? You can get a powershot A540 for around £70
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
the only think about the HD camera is it will future proof you in some small way, for when HD becomes a more popular format. But for web videos it won't matter, 1080 = even huger download sizes + absolutely no difference on youtube.
3ccd will make images look pretty, like pro photographs look pretty. It'll look more like what you're eyes see. Pretty like. And for all intents and purposes ie: web videos, non-HD DVD's, recording fenfire's routines to copy later, etc, it'll be pretty decent.
If you want, check some super useful site like:
https://www.simplydv.co.uk/
or
https://www.camcorderinfo.com
the only think about the HD camera is it will future proof you in some small way, for when HD becomes a more popular format. But for web videos it won't matter, 1080 = even huger download sizes + absolutely no difference on youtube.
3ccd will make images look pretty, like pro photographs look pretty. It'll look more like what you're eyes see. Pretty like. And for all intents and purposes ie: web videos, non-HD DVD's, recording fenfire's routines to copy later, etc, it'll be pretty decent.
If you want, check some super useful site like:
https://www.simplydv.co.uk/
or
https://www.camcorderinfo.com
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
PANASONIC NVGS230
Seen it for £300 too...
Yum
PANASONIC NVGS230
Seen it for £300 too...
Yum
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
I just bought a Panasonic AG-DVX100B
Yum Yum Yum
I just bought a Panasonic AG-DVX100B
Yum Yum Yum
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
DIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
YOU WHAT!!!
OMG, Meghan that's more than a toy
YOU WHAT!!!
OMG, Meghan that's more than a toy
BRONZE Member
old hand
716 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
old hand
716 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
The thing you have to look out for if your thinking about HD is if it will be compatable with your editing software. Lots of consumer end HD cameras use AVCHD which isnt supported by professional editing packages like Final Cut Pro (had this problem myself). Check your editing software supports your camera.
Also like VHS and Betamax there are different HD formats from different companies (Sony, Panasonic) fighting it out to be the standard format. Untill there is a clear winner i wouldnt buy one.
3CCD mini-dv cameras are getting much cheaper and are almost certain to work with your computer without loads of faffing around, and the footage takes up about 1/4 of the space on your hard drive (HD is 100Mb second!).
Oh yea, and you'll need a pretty decent computer to cope with HD, minimum recomended RAM is 2Gb. You have to render HD before you can even watch it in you timeline, so it gets really annoying if you have to wait 45 minutes everytime you make a change to your film.
HD is going to rock, but i wouldnt bother for another couple of years until it gets more user friendly and the formats have settled down.
The thing you have to look out for if your thinking about HD is if it will be compatable with your editing software. Lots of consumer end HD cameras use AVCHD which isnt supported by professional editing packages like Final Cut Pro (had this problem myself). Check your editing software supports your camera.
Also like VHS and Betamax there are different HD formats from different companies (Sony, Panasonic) fighting it out to be the standard format. Untill there is a clear winner i wouldnt buy one.
3CCD mini-dv cameras are getting much cheaper and are almost certain to work with your computer without loads of faffing around, and the footage takes up about 1/4 of the space on your hard drive (HD is 100Mb second!).
Oh yea, and you'll need a pretty decent computer to cope with HD, minimum recomended RAM is 2Gb. You have to render HD before you can even watch it in you timeline, so it gets really annoying if you have to wait 45 minutes everytime you make a change to your film.
HD is going to rock, but i wouldnt bother for another couple of years until it gets more user friendly and the formats have settled down.
"Don't do it naked!"
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
yup, and it's a good camera tooo!
Written by: Glåss
YOU WHAT!!!
OMG, Meghan that's more than a toy
yup, and it's a good camera tooo!
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
SILVER Member
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Posted:
Little bit off topic BUT......
I'm looking to buy a digital camcorder for recording both night and day spinning. I would love to have an editing function in the camera and a resonable battery life. I dont know much about these cameras so does any one have a suggestion?
Little bit off topic BUT......
I'm looking to buy a digital camcorder for recording both night and day spinning. I would love to have an editing function in the camera and a resonable battery life. I dont know much about these cameras so does any one have a suggestion?
O.B.E.S.E.
Owned by Mynci!
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
Editing functions on cameras (I assume) is going to be rubbish. You really will want one simply with a usb port so that you can get the footage onto computer and edit it that way. Its much easier, more definite and has way more features than you will find on a computer.
Also, what sort of budget are you looking at?
Id always suggest the most expensive thing on the market (its the most expensive for a reason) but there's no point doing that if you cant afford it, and would never buy it anyway.
Editing functions on cameras (I assume) is going to be rubbish. You really will want one simply with a usb port so that you can get the footage onto computer and edit it that way. Its much easier, more definite and has way more features than you will find on a computer.
Also, what sort of budget are you looking at?
Id always suggest the most expensive thing on the market (its the most expensive for a reason) but there's no point doing that if you cant afford it, and would never buy it anyway.
SILVER Member
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Posted:
i was thinking between 150-200$ the reason i want the camera editing is so i can cut out stupid [censored] to make more room for good stuff before its uploaded.
i was thinking between 150-200$ the reason i want the camera editing is so i can cut out stupid [censored] to make more room for good stuff before its uploaded.
O.B.E.S.E.
Owned by Mynci!
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
umm.. just not film the stupid
?
Im sure most cameras have a "delete this bit" button. I thought you meant you wanted to do all editing on teh camera, so when you take the footage from the camera, its in its final cut.
umm.. just not film the stupid
? Im sure most cameras have a "delete this bit" button. I thought you meant you wanted to do all editing on teh camera, so when you take the footage from the camera, its in its final cut.
SILVER Member
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Posted:
well see the way i spin is a lot fo Improv Contact and things dont always go how i want them to if you know what i mean
well see the way i spin is a lot fo Improv Contact and things dont always go how i want them to if you know what i mean
O.B.E.S.E.
Owned by Mynci!
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
Just buy bigger tapes and then remove the stuff off the camera. I think the only other option is likely to be recording over the 'dull' sections... but then you run the risk of over-writing good stuff!
Just buy bigger tapes and then remove the stuff off the camera. I think the only other option is likely to be recording over the 'dull' sections... but then you run the risk of over-writing good stuff!
Cake or Death?
SILVER Member
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Posted:
ok well either way, does any one have any recomendations for a modestly priced camera?
ok well either way, does any one have any recomendations for a modestly priced camera?
O.B.E.S.E.
Owned by Mynci!
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
"Improv Contact"
I do that
Id also like to add that it may well be worth buying two or more tapes so you can simply change over and keep going.
"Improv Contact"
I do that
Id also like to add that it may well be worth buying two or more tapes so you can simply change over and keep going.
SILVER Member
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Posted:
tapes huh? i was thinking digital....
tapes huh? i was thinking digital....
O.B.E.S.E.
Owned by Mynci!
BRONZE Member
old hand
904 posts
Location: India/Bristol
old hand
904 posts
Location: India/Bristol
Posted:
FireWire is the way to go NOT usb - ive had problems with my (admitedly old-ish) Digital Cam, with the Usb rate not being high enough to handle the date transfer, resulting in audio being out of sinc and skipping. My laptop didnt have a FireWire - but I solved by buying a (very cheap) PCM card thingy - seems to work fine now.
Durbs - let us know what you decided on and how it is for you (especially with Nightime footage)
FireWire is the way to go NOT usb - ive had problems with my (admitedly old-ish) Digital Cam, with the Usb rate not being high enough to handle the date transfer, resulting in audio being out of sinc and skipping. My laptop didnt have a FireWire - but I solved by buying a (very cheap) PCM card thingy - seems to work fine now.
Durbs - let us know what you decided on and how it is for you (especially with Nightime footage)
Feel the Flame
Phirenix
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
Poje - digital tapes (DATs - Digital Audio Tapes) Then again, most cameras must be able to store more than 2 hours worth of footage onboard, will you be spinning for longer than this? 
Nix- not fast enough transfer rate shouldnt (IMHO) make the audio out of sync. Id think it would still be in sync, but just transfer slower - definatly sounds like a camera issue to me. Cameras in general dont transfer "littlebitofvideo littlebitofsound littlebitofvideo littlebitofsound" its more like "littlebitofvideoandsound littlebitofvideoandsound littlebitofvideoandsound" if that makes sence
Id also go against firewire based solely on the fact I dont have any firewire stuff, and I dont like the shape of the connector
USB all the way
Rectangles rock!
(for a firewire/usb comparision click here )
Poje - digital tapes
(DATs - Digital Audio Tapes) Then again, most cameras must be able to store more than 2 hours worth of footage onboard, will you be spinning for longer than this? Nix- not fast enough transfer rate shouldnt (IMHO) make the audio out of sync. Id think it would still be in sync, but just transfer slower - definatly sounds like a camera issue to me. Cameras in general dont transfer "littlebitofvideo littlebitofsound littlebitofvideo littlebitofsound" its more like "littlebitofvideoandsound littlebitofvideoandsound littlebitofvideoandsound" if that makes sence
Id also go against firewire based solely on the fact I dont have any firewire stuff, and I dont like the shape of the connector
USB all the way
Rectangles rock!
(for a firewire/usb comparision click here
) BRONZE Member
old hand
904 posts
Location: India/Bristol
old hand
904 posts
Location: India/Bristol
Posted:
YOu may well be right that ts a camera issue
I just found from experience that moving to FireWire solved the issue - so that good enuf 4 i!
YOu may well be right that ts a camera issue
I just found from experience that moving to FireWire solved the issue - so that good enuf 4 i!
Feel the Flame
Phirenix
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