Forums > Social Discussion > Should Kids Have a Vote
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
Should kids get a vote?
Definitely in two minds. And if it were to be brough in, then I think there would need to be an age limit as well; a 16 year old is going to have a more informed vote than a 5 year old.
this really bothers me, but I can't quite put my finger on why. I suppose it's because the number of kids you have should have nothing to do with your needs.
I also think that there is a big political swing in this. Sorry to be stereotypical, but with the number of kids per family decreasing because more women are chosing a career over raising lots of kids, then it's a certain demographic of family who is going to have lots of kids (assuming one family member theyre staying home). More votes to religion where contraception is banned?
Nothing, absolutely nothing is going to stop the parents from forming their own political agendas here. Many people vote differently to their parents (I vote differently to my mother, and before I was old enough to vote I would have voted differently to my father, even though currently we vote the same).
Sure, some parents our there would be responsible enough to discuss the options and candidates and policies with their children, and kudos to them for it. But many will just force ideas down their kids' throats. And that is NOT democracy.
relevant side information:
when I was 16 I voted in a referendum to make Australia a republic. (As you would have noticed; we lost it) I still remember my father handing the ballot paper to me and saying "it's your future more than mine". And I believe that if more young people had voted in that referendum (Australia has an ageing population) then we'd no longer have a foreign head of state. And Dad's right; it's OUR future, not the oldies.
Discuss.
Should kids get a vote?
Definitely in two minds. And if it were to be brough in, then I think there would need to be an age limit as well; a 16 year old is going to have a more informed vote than a 5 year old.
Written by: Thornley
"A family of five or six has no more say in our democracy than a couple of two - yet their needs and potential contribution are greater.
this really bothers me, but I can't quite put my finger on why. I suppose it's because the number of kids you have should have nothing to do with your needs.
I also think that there is a big political swing in this. Sorry to be stereotypical, but with the number of kids per family decreasing because more women are chosing a career over raising lots of kids, then it's a certain demographic of family who is going to have lots of kids (assuming one family member theyre staying home). More votes to religion where contraception is banned?
Written by: Thornley
"So, we could consider parents being given the responsibility to cast additional votes on behalf of their kids until the kids turn 18 when they cast their own vote."
Nothing, absolutely nothing is going to stop the parents from forming their own political agendas here. Many people vote differently to their parents (I vote differently to my mother, and before I was old enough to vote I would have voted differently to my father, even though currently we vote the same).
Sure, some parents our there would be responsible enough to discuss the options and candidates and policies with their children, and kudos to them for it. But many will just force ideas down their kids' throats. And that is NOT democracy.
relevant side information:
when I was 16 I voted in a referendum to make Australia a republic. (As you would have noticed; we lost it) I still remember my father handing the ballot paper to me and saying "it's your future more than mine". And I believe that if more young people had voted in that referendum (Australia has an ageing population) then we'd no longer have a foreign head of state. And Dad's right; it's OUR future, not the oldies.
Discuss.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
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BRONZE Member
non stop uber rocking electro rock party
122 posts
Location: hastings, United Kingdom
non stop uber rocking electro rock party
122 posts
Location: hastings, United Kingdom
Posted:
i havent actually everything is very grey over here in england ur voting sounds like more fun or at least more stimulating
i havent actually everything is very grey over here in england ur voting sounds like more fun or at least more stimulating
"im quite depressed, im quite a mess, so beat me up, beat me down, mess me up beyond all recognition"
member
143 posts
Location: Broomfield, Colorado
143 posts
Location: Broomfield, Colorado
Posted:
When i was in elementary school, they had this program thing called "Kids Vote" where during election years they taught us all about the US electoral process then we got to go down by the real voting machines on election day and cast our kids ballots. They actually got counted and it was kinda fun.
The problem is most kids really don't care and only unless a candidate tanks their campaign by saying "I'll legalise weed" or "I'll lower the drinking age" will they solidly get the teenage vote. Obviously that candidate won't win though. Teenagers are very much single issue voters, not to mention very pop influenced.
When i was in elementary school, they had this program thing called "Kids Vote" where during election years they taught us all about the US electoral process then we got to go down by the real voting machines on election day and cast our kids ballots. They actually got counted and it was kinda fun.
The problem is most kids really don't care and only unless a candidate tanks their campaign by saying "I'll legalise weed" or "I'll lower the drinking age" will they solidly get the teenage vote. Obviously that candidate won't win though. Teenagers are very much single issue voters, not to mention very pop influenced.
"Watch those explosions in the sky and you'll go blind, but not this time. Will you live in hope or dark desire? What can I say? F*ck love give me fire." ~Cities Of Night by Blaqk Audio (Davey Havok)
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Carpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
Posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8O17VYGcM0
this is how i see the future ending up if kids ever got the vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8O17VYGcM0
this is how i see the future ending up if kids ever got the vote
GOLD Member
addict
498 posts
Location: Nottingham, United Kingdom
addict
498 posts
Location: Nottingham, United Kingdom
Posted:
that is genius!!! what's that from? i may have to waste money on it
that is genius!!! what's that from? i may have to waste money on it
Thoughts arrive like butterflies...
BRONZE Member
poiromaniac
162 posts
Location: liverpool, uk
poiromaniac
162 posts
Location: liverpool, uk
Posted:
i think everbody in the world should be sterilised at birth and not aloud to breed or vote until the pass a test, we all know of chav v y girls with far too many children and people that vote without due care and attention
i think everbody in the world should be sterilised at birth and not aloud to breed or vote until the pass a test, we all know of chav v y girls with far too many children and people that vote without due care and attention
member
143 posts
Location: Broomfield, Colorado
143 posts
Location: Broomfield, Colorado
Posted:
^^^
So you propose a giant uterus and testicle storage facility being built or something to house all the reproductive bits and pieces of these steralysed children? What do you suggest we do with all the bits of children NOT allowed to vote or breed? Should we burn them or turn them into animal feed perhaps? Would the line for voting and reproduction be the same score or would it be different numbers? If it is different numbers, how do you propose giving half-rights? :P
^^^
So you propose a giant uterus and testicle storage facility being built or something to house all the reproductive bits and pieces of these steralysed children? What do you suggest we do with all the bits of children NOT allowed to vote or breed? Should we burn them or turn them into animal feed perhaps? Would the line for voting and reproduction be the same score or would it be different numbers? If it is different numbers, how do you propose giving half-rights? :P
"Watch those explosions in the sky and you'll go blind, but not this time. Will you live in hope or dark desire? What can I say? F*ck love give me fire." ~Cities Of Night by Blaqk Audio (Davey Havok)
Proudly MCRmy
BRONZE Member
poiromaniac
162 posts
Location: liverpool, uk
poiromaniac
162 posts
Location: liverpool, uk
Posted:
no just a high dosage hormone injection like the pill only much more impacting, it would stop the women from being able to get pregnant but i think guys should get it aswel so they dont hit puberty until there mature enough to handle it.
and yes it would be a different test for voting and breeding =D
no just a high dosage hormone injection like the pill only much more impacting, it would stop the women from being able to get pregnant but i think guys should get it aswel so they dont hit puberty until there mature enough to handle it.
and yes it would be a different test for voting and breeding =D
member
143 posts
Location: Broomfield, Colorado
143 posts
Location: Broomfield, Colorado
Posted:
Indeed, but how exactly do you propose half-sterilysation for people who pass one test but not the other? Do you allow them to vote but leave them steralysed or reverse their sterilysation but forbid them from going near voting booths? Would it be like a Chinese style one-child rule for those who only half pass?
Indeed, but how exactly do you propose half-sterilysation for people who pass one test but not the other? Do you allow them to vote but leave them steralysed or reverse their sterilysation but forbid them from going near voting booths? Would it be like a Chinese style one-child rule for those who only half pass?
"Watch those explosions in the sky and you'll go blind, but not this time. Will you live in hope or dark desire? What can I say? F*ck love give me fire." ~Cities Of Night by Blaqk Audio (Davey Havok)
Proudly MCRmy
PLATINUM Member
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
Posted:
that's from Idiocracy, it's really an incredible movie. I love my brother so much for telling me about it. go watch it now!
Written by: TastesLikePurple
that is genius!!! what's that from? i may have to waste money on it
that's from Idiocracy, it's really an incredible movie. I love my brother so much for telling me about it. go watch it now!
Carpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
Posted:
sounds a bit 1883 to me i think the stigma of parents giving a kid a clip round the ear if they are naughty should be removed. sometimes kids do desevrve a slap (i dont mean beating 7 shades of sh*t out of them)
Written by: fanged_angel
i think everbody in the world should be sterilised at birth and not aloud to breed or vote until the pass a test, we all know of chav v y girls with far too many children and people that vote without due care and attention
sounds a bit 1883 to me
i think the stigma of parents giving a kid a clip round the ear if they are naughty should be removed. sometimes kids do desevrve a slap (i dont mean beating 7 shades of sh*t out of them) BRONZE Member
enthusiast
363 posts
Location: manchester uk
enthusiast
363 posts
Location: manchester uk
Posted:
Pyrolific fair enough you weren't acualy saying what i thought you were that sounds alot more resonable. your saying that reasoning doesn't naturaly progress after 15 and to progress from that point requires specific training.
also your statment
Additionally the education system is currently training every person to think that every argument is valid (teachers seem to confuse valid with valued...big mistake) as its the person's opinion (also a mistake).
couldn't agree more i think you've hit the nail right on the head there personaly i recon its a case of polical correctness spilling over into education.
EDITED_BY: robnunchucks (1187654955)
Pyrolific fair enough you weren't acualy saying what i thought you were that sounds alot more resonable. your saying that reasoning doesn't naturaly progress after 15 and to progress from that point requires specific training.
also your statment
Additionally the education system is currently training every person to think that every argument is valid (teachers seem to confuse valid with valued...big mistake) as its the person's opinion (also a mistake).
couldn't agree more i think you've hit the nail right on the head there personaly i recon its a case of polical correctness spilling over into education.
EDITED_BY: robnunchucks (1187654955)
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BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
it's teachers who have to get results so instead of educating a child to think they teach them how to pass an exam based on a strict and rigid syllabus.
It does make it harder to instill original and cognative thought when a teacher has to spend the whole lesson trying to teach something complicated to 30 students because the next lesson they have to move on to something new...there's no space for discussion. Especially when the syllabus says it's true the teacher cannot afford to tell students that as they need to know it as fact for an exam...even if there is controversy.
it's teachers who have to get results so instead of educating a child to think they teach them how to pass an exam based on a strict and rigid syllabus.
It does make it harder to instill original and cognative thought when a teacher has to spend the whole lesson trying to teach something complicated to 30 students because the next lesson they have to move on to something new...there's no space for discussion. Especially when the syllabus says it's true the teacher cannot afford to tell students that as they need to know it as fact for an exam...even if there is controversy.
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
member
143 posts
Location: Broomfield, Colorado
143 posts
Location: Broomfield, Colorado
Posted:
I wish they had a class that tought you real wordl survival stuff, cause a lot of parents don't teach kids about like, what a good loan rate is or how to fillout the papers to get an apartment. I think they used to teach those things in schol a bit, but now they're not on a standardised test so there's no "need" or time to teach them.
I wish they had a class that tought you real wordl survival stuff, cause a lot of parents don't teach kids about like, what a good loan rate is or how to fillout the papers to get an apartment. I think they used to teach those things in schol a bit, but now they're not on a standardised test so there's no "need" or time to teach them.
"Watch those explosions in the sky and you'll go blind, but not this time. Will you live in hope or dark desire? What can I say? F*ck love give me fire." ~Cities Of Night by Blaqk Audio (Davey Havok)
Proudly MCRmy
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
that's where kids should ask opinions, loan rates etc are substantive and should be more easily recognised as "good" or "bad" politicians promises are just so much air
that's where kids should ask opinions, loan rates etc are substantive and should be more easily recognised as "good" or "bad" politicians promises are just so much air
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
member
143 posts
Location: Broomfield, Colorado
143 posts
Location: Broomfield, Colorado
Posted:
See! Nobody teaches us to ask oppinions of loan rates! Kids these days are severely lacking in normal skills like that. Hell, everybody i know with a bank account has a debit card but not a single one of us ever writes purchases in a check register to keep track of how much money we actually have.
The current generation is more than a little [censored] if we don't even do check registers, lol. Think the people foreclosing with subprime loans are unfortunate...just wait a couple years!
See! Nobody teaches us to ask oppinions of loan rates! Kids these days are severely lacking in normal skills like that. Hell, everybody i know with a bank account has a debit card but not a single one of us ever writes purchases in a check register to keep track of how much money we actually have.
The current generation is more than a little [censored] if we don't even do check registers, lol. Think the people foreclosing with subprime loans are unfortunate...just wait a couple years!
"Watch those explosions in the sky and you'll go blind, but not this time. Will you live in hope or dark desire? What can I say? F*ck love give me fire." ~Cities Of Night by Blaqk Audio (Davey Havok)
Proudly MCRmy
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
yep thats it in an nutshell. and if reasoning doesnt progress (ie people dont get any better at figuring out who is telling the truth or making promises they cant keep etc etc), why cant we give the vote to kids at that age?
Experiencing the hardship of paying tax doesnt help if you cant tell which politician is lying about reducing tax - if anything it makes you more prone to believing the biggest liar - because they are promising the biggest gains.
Written by: robnunchucks
your saying that reasoning doesn't naturaly progress after 15 and to progress from that point requires specific training.
yep thats it in an nutshell. and if reasoning doesnt progress (ie people dont get any better at figuring out who is telling the truth or making promises they cant keep etc etc), why cant we give the vote to kids at that age?
Experiencing the hardship of paying tax doesnt help if you cant tell which politician is lying about reducing tax - if anything it makes you more prone to believing the biggest liar - because they are promising the biggest gains.
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BRONZE Member
enthusiast
363 posts
Location: manchester uk
enthusiast
363 posts
Location: manchester uk
Posted:
ok fair point but reasoning alone isn't enough to make informed decisions that takes experiance as well. experiance is the raw data that reasoning needs to operate (maby not in things like matmatics where pure reasoning is enough) but in real life situations where things are alot less clear cut
past experiance is important to good decision makeing. so even if kids reasoning skills are fully developed they still need time to build up the experiance that there reasoning needs to work well.
infact after writing that im inclined to say the vote age should be raised
EDITED_BY: robnunchucks (1187883954)
ok fair point but reasoning alone isn't enough to make informed decisions that takes experiance as well. experiance is the raw data that reasoning needs to operate (maby not in things like matmatics where pure reasoning is enough) but in real life situations where things are alot less clear cut
past experiance is important to good decision makeing. so even if kids reasoning skills are fully developed they still need time to build up the experiance that there reasoning needs to work well.
infact after writing that im inclined to say the vote age should be raised
EDITED_BY: robnunchucks (1187883954)
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BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
So I think the gist of rob's post is reasoning AND knowlegdge are required...and Experience.
So I think the gist of rob's post is reasoning AND knowlegdge are required...and Experience.
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
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