Page: 12
Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:So there's this woman I worked with last year. She's a dentist. At the beginning, we became friends. She seemed funny and vivacious. A good friend. We agreed, half-jokingly that if neither of us had kids by 35 that we'd have kids and raise them together (mind you, we'd known each-other for less than a month when we came to this "agreement").

And then I learned that she's such a sex fiend that she makes me look chaste (and that's not easy). The men she chooses are often older, sometimes married, usually quite wealthy, and (not that it should matter...except that she's not really looking for relatioships) uglier than a rhinocerous with an ingrown horn.

And after a few months it became obvious that she's crazy. Soon the phone calls started becoming incessant. "Pookie, I love you!"

At this point, some of her sexual escapades, I happened to learn, are arrangements where she spends a weekend with a guy, has sex with him, and then somehow comes across a few thousand dollars. Isn't there a word for that? And not that I'm all about morals and stuff, but that crosses a line, especially since she's a licensed dentist and SHOULD be earning money that way.

And now I've learned through a mutual friend that:
1) She feels that I am her "gay soulmate" (I haven't spoken to her in 6-7 months and I have studiously avoided her phone calls)

2) She is certain that she will become the mother of my children.

3) Said children will be concieved au naturale and that I will turn straight if I "would just censored her tight censored"

4) I will eventually turn straight and marry her.

OK, so she's delusional. No, seriously, she's having delusional thinking. Clearly I'm not going to turn straight and I'm not going to have sex with her and she SHOULD be educated and sophisticated enough to know that. Simple enough solution: I set her straight, inform her that I am quite gay to stay, I am not having sex with her, and I am moving to the West Coast and that she will not be the mother of my children and end the "friendship."

Problem: she also has serious issues with abandonment. She's called me sobbing once because a guy got up and ditched her in the middle of a restaurant when she went to the bathroom. Normally, I'd think the guy was a jerk, but honestly, he's probably just a more perceptive judge of character than I am and felt a need to run far away. And besides, delusional people often don't respond well to having their delusions shattered.

I'm afraid that if I simply told her that I didn't want her to be my friend anymore it might be such a blow to her that she might strike out at me in some way and try to harm me, physically or otherwise (she knows where I live, where I work, and my phone number).

Tonight she called me not once, not twice, but THREE times while I was at work. I didn't answer of course, but the first was cloying, the next was plaintive, and the third was almost angry.

I've spoken to our mutual friend about this, but she's not sure how to approach the issue, either. You'd think that if someone didn't answer your phone calls, E-mails, IM's and text messages for several months that you'd get the message!

Ugh. Why do I attract these people?

Any ideas how to surgically remove her from my life with minimum collateral damage?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete Topic

Kyle03
SILVER Member since Dec 2006

Kyle03

The super duper uber looper
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 119
Posted:Wow thats some pretty hectic stuff! i have a solution but you are not going to like it. have you thought about killing her? that was a joke. its a touchy issue but the best way to do it is to invite her and a bunch of mutual friends over and talk to her

Don't make someone your priority if they only make you an option.

Delete

Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 2523
Posted:Sorry Mike, I couldn't stop myself laughing.
I know it's serious, but after the mice, now this, I'm sure that your life is a soap opera. Have you considered selling the script?
Good luck sorting it out.
Drew


Delete

Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:The only experience I have with stalkers is of the "If you don't come back to me I'll find you and beat the censored out of you" type, so... one thing to do is DO NOT tell her you're moving to the West Coast or she might follow wink



I never changed my phone number etc out of pride (yes. It is stupid. Don't lecture me, but it was my way of coping that I'd not ever go out of my way to do things because of that idiot again). I got about 20 calls a day until I discovered the bliss of being online on a 56k connection and my phone being unavailable, at which point I got about 20 messages on the answering machine a day for a while.



The only thing that helped in my case was time. In yours, I'd recommend talking to your friends who know her too, setting things straight without going into too much detail, and asking them not to encourage her, maybe ask them to point out the fact that they don't think you would do anything with her or any other woman's tight censored bodyparts even if the fate of humanity depended on it.



She's obviously not getting the "ignoring" stance, so try doing it bit by bit, starting with "I'm gay. The thing with the children was not meant seriously, sorry if you got the impression." (No matter if you're NOT sorry, she's got a different mindset and has obviously either seriously misunderstood you from the start or convinced herself that you were serious some time after.) Good luck, I know how annoying it can be frown


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

Delete

Brenn
PLATINUM Member since Jun 2004

Brenn

Will carpal your tunnel in a minute.
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 3286
Posted:I can't say my experience is as hectic as yours, but I know what its like to be constantly harassed for something you cannot give them.

My only opinion is that she sees you as a challenge that she _must_ conquer. Why she is hellbent on trying to 'change' or conquer you is beyond me, but that's what it sounds like to me. She won't give in until either you turn (which, isn't going to happen wink as you so rightfully said!) or you make it VERY clear and definative that you aren't going to change for her in a way that _she_ can understand.

While I'm certain that your mutual friend is speaking the truth about what this girl wants from you, it is always best to take this with a grain of salt: The last thing you would probably want is your mutual friend to get caught in the crossfire because of something she said.

You may be attracting these sorts of people because people like that tend to be drawn to opposite polar ends: You strike me as a sincere and caring individual (and forward wink ), and as such will be nothing short of dependable and audient to a wide range of people of different walks of life and statures.

I hope this clears for you soon mate. I really, really do. hug


ॐ

Owner of burningoftheclavey smile
Owned by Lost83spy

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Life writes the "best" storybooks, doesn't it? wink

Moving out of town seems to be a feasible solution. Good timing.... You can leave her a letter that you signed up for "Doctors without borders" and would only mate with a female, if she'd work for development projects 5 years in Africa (other than that you'd remain deeply disappointed by the female gender and simply can't mate and have children)... this way you maybe would "raise awareness"? wink

It seems as if she regards you as an "escape hatch" from a lifestyle that she pursues, but is against her belief system (go figure). As Brenn put it: "she_must_conquer". Unfortunately those who are confronted with this attitude (especially male) do feel repelled - unless feeling attracted by the power handed over (which in itself is a trap only).

However, it's unhealthy and she should seek counselling.
The less you identify yourself with it, the better. This is not about you, this is about what these people are able to project on you. Do I make (some) sense?

In the meantime I guess it's helpful not to withdraw completely. Borderline is like confirmation/ rejection - the more you reject, the more she will be looking for confirmation - even aggressively.

This will pass and you will have a good life in San Fran - far away from the Big Apple's madness. Just hang in there, two "Ave Maria" in the mornings, recite the rosary 3 times a day (morning/ noon/ before going to bed), a dash of sacred water into your lunch and it will pass quickly wink


---------------------
written by Tomic: HoP's inofficial faith healer - consultation anytime, without request and free of charge for the first three sessions...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

Firinne


Firinne

newbie
Location: Hitchin, Herts

Total posts: 23
Posted:Have you thought about a restraining order?

Delete

onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by: Doc Lightning







And then I learned that she's such a sex fiend that she makes me look chaste (and that's not easy). The men she chooses are often older, sometimes married, usually quite wealthy, and (not that it should matter...except that she's not really looking for relatioships) uglier than a rhinocerous with an ingrown horn.





What's she doing at the weekend? smile


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

Eera
BRONZE Member since May 2003

old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay, Austral...

Total posts: 1107
Posted:So has she ever shown evidence of having a violent and vindictive nature? If she's phoned you up sobbing about being dumped, rather than phoning you up telling you she's hounded the guy to death and chopped his hands off, or something, them so what? Tell her straight.

Much as I've had plenty of fantasies about stringing my ex up by the testicles using 15-amp fuse wire, I've never done it.

If you're just avoiding her calls, rather than telling her to get over it and move on, then she's not likely to get the message. Ultimately, if she's formed a very strong attachement to you in a very short period of time, she's going to do the same with someone else eventually.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:hooooo, listen to you, lady eek Nasty thoughts.

But I guess OWD is the only one who got the plot here.

The threads title clearly states it and the story indicates, that Doc is only looking for a cozy way to turn her into his private goldmine.

Want to pimp up your New York goodbyes? wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:You lot are incorrigible!

First, Brenn, you raise some good points. (Now, if I could only get you to let me censored your censored then maybe you'd turn! *flee* wink )

Peanut, the thought of homocide has occurred. But I'm so clumsy I'd get caught. And that would make me look silly. wink

FireTom, I agree she needs counseling. How do I convince her to get it?

Firinne, I have thought about a restraining, but that's costly, time-consuming, and would require a lawyer poking around my personal life. I'll do it if it comes to it.

OWD, She could be at your place, but I'd need some "insurance" from you that you'd be there to welcome her. American Express Traveler's Cheques will do fine. wink

Eera, She hasn't shown signs of being vindictive. But I'm also rightlfully paranoid (just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!). It's ugly...

And FireTom, no, you CAN'T have a slice.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:ubblol heyyy watz up maaaan - I'm the king of pimp, you mess with me? You wanna mess wid ME? ubblol wink




Non-Https Image Link




btw: you can't 'make' anyone do anything they don't really want. Try the "docs w/o borders" - for more beneficial wink

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1184150670)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

Puk
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

Puk

Sweet talented nutter
Location: Brisbane Oz, Australia

Total posts: 2615
Posted:Sorry mike i agree with glass. Sometimes you have to be a complete C^&T to get what you want.

Don't be nice tell her where to go.


that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk

Delete

faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:having been stalked: tell her firmly, but w/o swears that you have no interest in her and that the attention is more than uncomfortable.
restraining orders are not too much and if it is a problem, definitely worth it.
don't bet that she won't figure out where you are going and that she won't follow you.
people are sometimes amused by the stalkers until the stalker leaps across the line, from pesky to seriously dangerous


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

Delete

_khan_
SILVER Member since Nov 2004

_khan_

old hand
Location: San Francisco, California, USA

Total posts: 768
Posted:Sorry to hear about this, Doc. It's weird a friend of mine is also being stalked/harassed, but it's a woman being stalked by her boyfriend's ex.

Anyway, I think Tom's assessment of her being borderline is spot-on, in which case a clear boundary needs to be established. Borderlines need containment and boundary setting. Avoidance doesn't work because she can rationalize to herself (and probably has) why you haven't responded. You're right that a rational person would get the hint after months of no response to phone calls, emails, etc., but she's not rational. A clear, direct message of "back off" must be conveyed.

I'm not a therapist, but my partner is and he tells me about his work all the time (without divulging identities of course) and he works A LOT with borderlines (his specialty is personality disorders). So I've heard a lot over the years about how to deal with them. For what that's worth.

Good luck. hug


taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco

Delete

BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost, Canada

Total posts: 1247
Posted:Doc, has she been stalking you in any other way than calling and talking to pals about you? Has she a history of violence or vindictive behaviour?

I am not sure I would go as far as to suggest her a danger to you unless you have more information than you have shared? Though intuition is sometimes spot on all the same, and maybe you have a strong intuition about her, hey.

I think from what you have said, some gentle but absolutely clear communication should solve the problem. Sounds like you have not tried that yet. Simply politely state that you do not want any further contact, ( I would try to avoid explaning why at all, or emotionally engaging in any way even discussing it). If she broaches that boundary, then consider other more serious options. Maybe tell mutual friends your position, so they can reinforce it in their interactions with her.

I had to ask for a restraining order, but before I could even get it my stalker attacked the police and ended up detained in the psyche ward... sigh. Not fun.


But ignoring people never works, and often creates more antagonism and desire for attention...

good luck!


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Khan, I'm not sure Borderline is the diagnosis. She doesn't meet the criteria. She doesn't split, she doesn't make frantic attempts to avoid abandonment, etc. My last stalker was a true borderline and OMG that was a nightmare. (That was the one that called my work and accused me of sexual misconduct.)

Banshee, I did have a friend talk to her about it. If it keeps up then I'm going to have to do it. But I'm going ot have to get two of our mutual friends together on it, because we're all getting a bit fed up with her behavior.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Dunno whether borderline is such exact determined syndrome - what you reckon? Shades of grey?

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted:Hi Tom,wave



*Borderline* is a well defined syndrome or 'state of being' in standard psychology and psychiatry as well as being used in the same sort of way in other sorts of psychotherapy. It is a bit controversial. There's lots of info on Google.

Of course, as an ordinary English word borderline just means 'on the edge', so the general public might use it in any way at all... a borderline good spinner or whatever. smile


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

Delete

faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:It does seem like us borderliners are the ones that cause the many problems maybe the most next to schitzophrenics. Maybe because we don't get diagnosed until we break and then really aren't all that borderline.

I forgot doc, was borderline for bipolar or depression too?


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

Delete

Invader Xan
SILVER Member since May 2005

Invader Xan

Your friendly neighbourhood mad scientist
Location: Over the hills and far away, U...

Total posts: 479
Posted:TBH, from everything you say, she almost definitely needs professional help. Some serious issues going on. Maybe you should contact a shrink and ask advice on how to deal with her...?

Probably best not to inflame or antagonise her... Things might get scary... eek


"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art."
--Konstantin Stanislavisky

Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: faithinfire



I forgot doc, was borderline for bipolar or depression too?





No. Psychatric diagnoses are split into five axes:



Axis I: A "biological" psychiatric diagnosis such as Bipolar Disorder, Major Depression, Schizophrenia, etc.

Axis II: Personality disorders such as Borderline, Schizoid, Antisocial, etc.

Axis III: Any relevant medical diagnosis such as hypertension, rheumatoid arthritis, etc.

Axis VI: Any stressors in the patient's life such as recent divorce, impending foreclosure on home, etc.

Axis V: A measure of disability on a scale of 0-100. Most of us are functioning in the 90's. A 0 is a patient who is so psychiatrically disabled that they cannot even attend to their own toileting or other basic activities of daily living.



In order to have Borderline Personality Disorder a patient must exhibit any five of the following nine criteria:



1) Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. [Not including suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5]



2) A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.



3) Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.



4) Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, promiscuous sex, eating disorders, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). [Again, not including suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5]



5) Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, threats, or self-mutilating behavior.



6) Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)



7) Chronic feelings of emptiness.



8) Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).



9) Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.



Note criterion (6). Anyone who identifies as "Bipolar" but has mood cycles lasting hours or just a few days is not Bipolar. Even a rapid-cycling Bipolar patient has cycles lasting weeks to months. Anyone who cycles on the order of hours should merit strong suspicion for an Axis II disorder.



At any rate, my "stalker" meets maybe criteria 2 and 3. And that's with a rather loose interpretation of the criteria. So she's not even close to satisfying the criteria for BPD.



My last stalker, the one who called my work, met 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and 8. That's a slam-dunk diagnosis.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA

Total posts: 3597
Posted:i fit 3 of those 9

3,4, and 7 what does that mean?


O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Means you don't have Borderline...

Be glad. It sucks.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

Firetramp


Firetramp

old hand
Location: Binstead, Isle of Wight

Total posts: 896
Posted:Organise a fake "gay" wedding and invite her to it. Make it a scary party; everyone dressed in sm black leather and have a female friend chat her up non-stop.

Ask a question and be a fool for a minute...don't ask and be a fool your whole life.

Delete

faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:good to know my doctor still has the right diagnosis for me wink

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

Delete

Aurinko
BRONZE Member since Aug 2006

Aurinko

hello!
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Total posts: 1034
Posted:I 'd also like to help, unfortunately all I can offer is:



yesterday I learned how to calculate the expected payoff (in utility-units) for her when meeting you and for you when meeting her. Furthermore, I can calculate a mixed-strategy equilibrium when putting the pay-off information into a two-by-two matrix.

If that should come in handy at a certain point, let me know. I could write an essay on that for you. rolleyes



(So that's what social scientists are good for umm)


a swapped test-playboy, set free by NOn, idolizing the tea fairy; Dragosani spiritual freedom agreement reached 18th Sept 2006

Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: Aurinko


I 'd also like to help, unfortunately all I can offer is:

yesterday I learned how to calculate the expected payoff (in utility-units) for her when meeting you and for you when meeting her. Furthermore, I can calculate a mixed-strategy equilibrium when putting the pay-off information into a two-by-two matrix.
If that should come in handy at a certain point, let me know. I could write an essay on that for you. rolleyes

(So that's what social scientists are good for umm)



So who wins?

Other than the fact that I just lost... ubbangel


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:
Non-Https Image Link


wink


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

Delete

Aurinko
BRONZE Member since Aug 2006

Aurinko

hello!
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Total posts: 1034
Posted: Written by: Doc Lightning


So who wins?




no one. It's a zero-sum-game (or a constant-sum-game, depending on how you set it up).
The problem is that there is no solution in which both of you will win. When you're both in the same place, she will win, but you will lose, whereas when you're in different places, you will win and she will lose. The best thing to do is thus randomization = throw a coin = do not plan or set up strategies = just do something. You'll then see what happens.

Another possibility is to deviate from the pure strategies. A pure strategy would be going to a place (this could be e.g. a party or a museum) or not going to a place. If you deviate from it, you could e.g. introduce strategies like going there only shortly (so not seeing the whole movie) or sending your twin-brother there who is going to pretend he is you. Which such mixed strategies, you could reach a win-win-situation.

Another solution would be to change the pay-offs. This means she and/or you could change her/your attitude towards the other person. Neutrality would be the best solution, then it would be possible to have loads of win-win-situations. Both of you changing the attitude to the other extreme (so she avoiding you, you running after her) would not help. Then you would end up in a zero-sum-game again, only with the roles reversed.

Of all those possibilities, I like randomization and change of pay-offs best.
Randomization: do whatever you want to do. Irrespective of what she does.
Change of pay-offs: make your payoff independent from her actions. So: ignore her (I know, easier said than done). In diplomatics, you would do this using phrases like "That's an interesting point. I"ll consider it" , "Let me come back to you on that", "Not now, maybe some other time". The idea is that comments like that keep the other person in a good mood while you didn't do or commit to anything.


a swapped test-playboy, set free by NOn, idolizing the tea fairy; Dragosani spiritual freedom agreement reached 18th Sept 2006

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:I love the two last posts smile

And I would sacrifice myself to act as the long lost twin brother. She's hot (Doc said) and I don't mind gettn laid....

Other than that I side with Aurinko: That's the strategies the gals play with the good guys, why not playing the same with the bad girls wink

hug

Good luck and consider to apply for a CCWP - just in case.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

Page: 12

Similar Topics

Using the keywords [managing stalker] we found the following similar topics.
1. Forums > Managing a stalker? [34 replies]
2. Forums > Consultation paper redrafting UK Protest Laws [3 replies]
3. Forums > Has everybody got their Glastonbury tickets? [8 replies]
4. Forums > Song Request [29 replies]
5. Forums > Anyone in Dundee that can help me? [1 reply]

     Show more..