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Floosoushoo
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Floosoushoo

member
Location: Oxfordia

Total posts: 38
Posted:Sooo, what did everyone make of Live Earth?
While we can all appreciate the cause, there's certainly mixed opinions on the hypocrisy of it all, and even the motivations of some of the event organisers and partners. As Al Gore said, "This is going to be the greenest event of its kind, ever. The carbon offsets and the innovative practices that are being used to make this a green event, I think, will set the standard for years to come." '

Well thanks for that Al, I'll be sure to plant a tree next time I hop on board my private jet or crank up all the lights in my house til they're visible all over London.

It would have been greener to have no concert at all, but then the question is how to reach the billions of people that this is reported to have done. In terms of awareness, I think it's fair to say that people were "aware" of the concert taking place and what it stood for, but how many were left with awareness of what they could really do to contribute to the cause? How many were simply left with the disturbing image of Madonna gyrating over a stereo instead. Either way, the debate over how green the concert really was probably gets people thinking more about the environment that the actual event itself, which can only be a good thing in the end. It's a strange topic anyway, as we're only accelerating, not creating climate change. It's gonna happen at some point, polar bears haven't been around forever and we can't expect them to be in the future...


they mostly come at night, mostly.

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Floosoushoo
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Floosoushoo

member
Location: Oxfordia

Total posts: 38
Posted:And yet, if fans of Madonna now see her as some sort of role model and that it's *cool* to care about the environment, then that's a whole new demographic of eco-concious folk...

they mostly come at night, mostly.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:*errm* two wrongs don't make a right...



We don't have to glorify some event and superstars in order to recognise what is going on. We don't need to get the "truth" delivered by some people who just take such event as a mockery and to lighten their CV.



Live through action taken. By the time Madonna and other superstars renounce their excessive superstar lifestyle, the example would shine much brighter, than the Vegas strip.



"It's all about the money" - very unfortunately this is eggsactly the US-immigrants attitude, imprinted on the rest of the world. VERY unfortunately that, of the native American Indians got somehow lost between railroads and Winchesters.



If people just cease to buy environmentally hostile goods AND from companies who try to whitewash their ecological sins, then companies will reconsider as well.



I generally oppose the notion that I have to pay more for environmentally friendly goods, as this leads to label fraud and simply fills up some CEO's pockets - nothing more, nothing less. It's just another way of fooling the public.



We're all on this rock together, yet some stand on the shoulders of others and make them pitch in as much as they can to get rid of that burden (burden= royals, clerics, warriors, lobbyists, celeb's, politicians)...



"Only after the last tree has been cut down / Only after the last river has been poisoned / Only after the last fish has been caught / Then will you find that money cannot be eaten"



But I know what YOU mean, Doc. hug



PS you really think that Madonna fans started meditation after listening to her "spiritual" album? Or got busy with the Kabbala, because she did? umm

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1184055665)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:I agree and think it's personal advertising for musicians... "raising awareness" of the planets need for environmental alertness is a sham when it's stuffed down everyones throat every minute of every day... the more I see the more I want to rebel and go and chop down a tree those damn self rightous, I'm re-releasing an inconvenient truth on DVD, self promoting pains in the ass.... I care about the environment but they go a step too far...

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Floosoushoo
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Floosoushoo

member
Location: Oxfordia

Total posts: 38
Posted:Dost thou raise thine eyebrow at me sir? :P Maybe more people who'd never really heard of the Kabbala before she became involved in it became more ... "aware"... of its existence...

i'm kinda warming to her garish and slightly obtuse shout for the environment!


they mostly come at night, mostly.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted: Written by: FireTom


If people just cease to buy environmentally hostile goods AND from companies who try to whitewash their ecological sins, then companies will reconsider as well.



If they'd "just..."

How you gonna "just" get them to?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Floosoushoo
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Floosoushoo

member
Location: Oxfordia

Total posts: 38
Posted:Especially cos most of these companies are sneaky and you can't be sure who's an eco-'sinner'. And the expense. Don't forget the expense.

they mostly come at night, mostly.

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Floosoushoo
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Floosoushoo

member
Location: Oxfordia

Total posts: 38
Posted:*Just this moment receives hop package from NZ*

In retrospect, that's my carbon footprint nudged further through the roof. I'd better go tend the garden, quick. Dum de dum...


they mostly come at night, mostly.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:True - ppl would be far more willing to spend MORE money on "environmentally friendly" goods than spending LESS money on "hostile" goods... I see, you converted me already - I'll shut up.

So you did get busy with the K. because M. was raising your awareness about it? umm shrug and now you are able to say that you "know" about the K.? Takes a bow...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Floosoushoo
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Floosoushoo

member
Location: Oxfordia

Total posts: 38
Posted:Well it's subliminal again, a possible scenario is that the next time you hear "Kabbala" the term is familiar and registers with you instead of filtering like whitenoise, it was a good point that Dom raised. I never said it would make people "know" more.

they mostly come at night, mostly.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:oh - I understand now. Next time I hear "awareness" I'm not merely thinking of traffic lights and meditation, but also of the planet and ecologics...

Knowing the term and knowing what it IS something *errm* different... it's like driving a SUV with a Greenpeace sticker on the back.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Eera


old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay

Total posts: 1107
Posted: Written by: FireTom


True - ppl would be far more willing to spend MORE money on "environmentally friendly" goods than spending LESS money on "hostile" goods...




You know, according to an energy magazine I've seen in the staffroom, we Australians can cut our overall household carbon emissions by up to 60% very easily. That's the projected amount we can cut if every household installed a solar hot water heater.

The catch? they cost $4500 and I've heard an awful lot of bleating on about how long it takes to recoup the cost yadda yadda yadda.. Seems to me that if we really care, we can do something worthwhile for what is comparatively little. Time for Australia to put its money where its mouth is.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:Homeless people recycle and reuse a lot.



Yay, to them!



:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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fake teeth and glue
BRONZE Member since Aug 2003

fake teeth and glue

Checking who's online, watching you!
Location: somewhere

Total posts: 1972
Posted:how old is the earth? about 4.55 billion years old.

how long have people been around?
[Quote] Hominin remains about 800,000 years old have been found in Spain and Italy, indicating that early humans had colonised southern Europe by this time. These early humans have been classed as another species, H. antecessor, though arguments remain over whether it is a really separate species to H. heidelbergensis. [/Quote]

how long will they be around for? time will tell, but in the grand scale of things do you really think that what we do now will destroy or severely damage the things? it might mess things up a bit but i a few million years or however long the world will level itself out again. but for the time we live here we should try and make it a nice place and not make it so we have to be extinct for the earth to go back to normal, and who really knows what normal is? anyway...


you just lost the game!!!!!! !!!!!

knowledge is power, power corupts, study hard, become evil.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Eera: I'm waiting for this one a looong time already... Diesel generators in Daintree? Gold Mines in Cacadoo? list continues... I guess the OZzians could generate all their energy from solar power - but hey, why receiving something if you can dig it out of the ground?



Fake teeth: See, that much time was spent on the foreplay and now? Easy, lads.... wink

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1184486305)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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duballstar
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay

Total posts: 2216
Posted: Written by: fake teeth and glue



in the grand scale of things do you really think that what we do now will destroy or severely damage the things? it might mess things up a bit but i a few million years or however long the world will level itself out again.





Well, in the grand scale of things the Earth is a pretty tiny dot. However, it is the only dot so far on which we have found life. And not just simple bacteria, but a rich vibrant plethora of biodiversity. This, in my opinion, is extremely significant.



Yes, the Earth works in cycles. It has hot phases and cooling phases. In between life thrives. We are in one of these stages at the moment.



However, the Earth is getting older and the Sun, hotter. Earth is becoming less able to re-couperate from hot phases. We may not see another ice age. As the seas get hotter, they too become less able to maintain life. It is thought that if we heat the Earth 6 degrees centegrade further, life may struggle to survive at all. The hotter it gets, the faster it gets hotter. We may see this rise in the next 100 years if we carry on as we have done.



This is all, of course, not to mention the floods, droughts, famines, wars, mass migration and complete chaos which we are likely to see in our own lifetime if the planet heats above another 2-3 degrees centegrade.



It is all very well to sit around thinking it's somebody else's problem, but when the global economy collapses and most of the world's population start moving North or killing each other, and your house finds itself 3 metres underwater cos the ice caps have melted, it'll be really easy to stay detached won't it?



Insignificant as we may be, I would not like to see this suffering inflicted on the human race or any other life on Earth. What we have is precious. It is our duty as sentient beings to preserve the fragile living world that exists on this unique bit of rock, if not for the sake of others then at the very least for ourseleves.



$4500 is really not a lot of money to pay for a solar heater if you think how much you'd spend on a car, or even a holiday.



Planet Earth truly is priceless.



You might want to try these books:



Heat - Georges Monbiot

Revenge of Gaia - James Lovelock

Six Degrees - Mark Lynas



Or this comic:



Funny Weather - Kate Evans



And then this:



I Count - How to Stop Climate Chaos



smile hug



PS. If you really want to get into the what is normal or 'in the grand scale of things' debate, you might want to consider that both the scale and conditions for 'normal' are set in your own head. In these terms, global warming is likley to turn 'normal' completely on its head for you in a grand scale. wink


It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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The Tea Fairy
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...

Total posts: 853
Posted:ditto and very well said!

Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

Bob Dylan

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fake teeth and glue
BRONZE Member since Aug 2003

fake teeth and glue

Checking who's online, watching you!
Location: somewhere

Total posts: 1972
Posted: Written by: duballstar



 Written by: fake teeth and glue



in the grand scale of things do you really think that what we do now will destroy or severely damage the things? it might mess things up a bit but i a few million years or however long the world will level itself out again.





Well, in the grand scale of things the Earth is a pretty tiny dot. However, it is the only dot so far on which we have found life. And not just simple bacteria, but a rich vibrant plethora of biodiversity. This, in my opinion, is extremely significant.



Yes, the Earth works in cycles. It has hot phases and cooling phases. In between life thrives. We are in one of these stages at the moment.



However, the Earth is getting older and the Sun, hotter. Earth is becoming less able to re-couperate from hot phases. We may not see another ice age. As the seas get hotter, they too become less able to maintain life. It is thought that if we heat the Earth 6 degrees centegrade further, life may struggle to survive at all. The hotter it gets, the faster it gets hotter. We may see this rise in the next 100 years if we carry on as we have done.



This is all, of course, not to mention the floods, droughts, famines, wars, mass migration and complete chaos which we are likely to see in our own lifetime if the planet heats above another 2-3 degrees centegrade.



It is all very well to sit around thinking it's somebody else's problem, but when the global economy collapses and most of the world's population start moving North or killing each other, and your house finds itself 3 metres underwater cos the ice caps have melted, it'll be really easy to stay detached won't it?



Insignificant as we may be, I would not like to see this suffering inflicted on the human race or any other life on Earth. What we have is precious. It is our duty as sentient beings to preserve the fragile living world that exists on this unique bit of rock, if not for the sake of others then at the very least for ourseleves.



$4500 is really not a lot of money to pay for a solar heater if you think how much you'd spend on a car, or even a holiday.



Planet Earth truly is priceless.



You might want to try these books:



Heat - Georges Monbiot

Revenge of Gaia - James Lovelock

Six Degrees - Mark Lynas



Or this comic:



Funny Weather - Kate Evans



And then this:



I Count - How to Stop Climate Chaos



smile hug



PS. If you really want to get into the what is normal or 'in the grand scale of things' debate, you might want to consider that both the scale and conditions for 'normal' are set in your own head. In these terms, global warming is likley to turn 'normal' completely on its head for you in a grand scale. wink





oh, i wasn't saying (or at least trying not to) anything to oppose to what you have just said or that its someone else's problem or to even dismiss it, on the contrary.

i was merely trying to join the conversation and possibly bring something new into it, or show another angle so as to have a wider view on the subject.





"ahh, look at the view"



"its alright"



"well, at least we still have a view"



"yeah, its a bit hot though"



"yeah......"



"cheer up lad, the sun will be up in a minuit"



"yes, it will"


you just lost the game!!!!!! !!!!!

knowledge is power, power corupts, study hard, become evil.

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duballstar
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay

Total posts: 2216
Posted:No worries man... I didn't mean to have a go at you personally. Your points were perfectly valid and welcome.



It's just that there are a lot of people thinking along the lines of 'it's not a major problem', 'a bit of hot weather would be welcome in this country', 'the earth moves in cycles anyway, it'll all blow over', or even just not getting the full scale of the problem in perspective. I was just trying to set the record straight and point you (and others) in the direction of some more information and resources.



Incidentaly, if you live in the UK, are worried about climate change, and haven't done so yet, join The Big Ask campaign and I Count to make your voice heard and get tips. smile hug


It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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fake teeth and glue
BRONZE Member since Aug 2003

fake teeth and glue

Checking who's online, watching you!
Location: somewhere

Total posts: 1972
Posted:yeah i joined icount at Glastonbury.
i find it funny when people say "a bit of warm weather isn't bad" when if global warming continues the UK will get colder...apparently wink


you just lost the game!!!!!! !!!!!

knowledge is power, power corupts, study hard, become evil.

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