Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Can we name this move? (bf anti-poly flower)

Posted: 26th Jun 2007
yeah, I like the idea of Mercedes too, it also gives the descriptive Mercedes switch, or changeover, too, both work nicely, and are nicely shorter than 'butterfly atom' (which wasn't exclusive enough as that can be done as a flower)



And I think Eddie Izzard's got copyright on naming everything geoff

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Posted: 26th Jun 2007
What about calling it, "the monkey" in honour of simian who always thinks up the perfect names for moves

Posted: 26th Jun 2007
but I know of so many crazy things we all call a monkey cos of him

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Posted: 26th Jun 2007
MERCEDES!?!?!

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??!??

THAT'S THE WORST NAME I'VE EVER HEARD

it describes the pattern created, which can be replicated by all sorts of different movements, and is non-specific to this particular variation you're discussing.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Posted: 26th Jun 2007
if anyone has 'Yoshiky vid for 2007.wmv' the (prospective) Mercedes, with changeovers, is exactly 5 min in.



I'm still looking for the butterfly antispin wipe/etchasketch/swipe thing..



and lol simian, you suggested it

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Posted: 26th Jun 2007
Bluecat, brownian thing... is that the butterfly and drawing a pentagram with your hands?

Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
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Be Water My Friend.

Posted: 26th Jun 2007
apparently so....



thanks for making me laugh, a lot, simian

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Posted: 26th Jun 2007
Mercedes conjures up images of hot spanish chicks in my mind... Plus, as le singe said, you can re-create the pattern in different ways, not just with this one.

"Goofy hybrid" is short and about 83% accurate...

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Posted: 26th Jun 2007
Durbs, what you have there is an incomplete, non-unique, inaccurate and hideously repugnant use of terminology.

That is not a name, it's a monster.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Posted: 26th Jun 2007
There's a vid I've found on my machine called 'dirty sox and lazy spinning' the other move I was talking about is 4.42 in, I've just no idea who's spinning unless the 'lazy' in the title is cos it's lazyangel, and no idea where the vid came from originally, doh.



[edit] found the hop thread, it is one of lazyangels vid's, can I whack it on youtube for you lazy?

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Posted: 26th Jun 2007
I know, but so was "1.5", though these are now called "Not 1.5s"...
So perhaps "Not Goofy Hybrids"

In the names defence, they feel a lot like a "normal" hybrid, only one poi is going the wrong way (à la Goofy flowers") and you can do it one-beat-each-side like a normal hybrid.
The 3:1 polyrhythm is the natural rhythm, but this can be changed, from 1:1 to (possibly) 18:1 with a bit of tweaking.

I don't think it's hideously inaccurate - it is goofy (Def: One with spin, one anti-spin, arms same direction), it is kinda hybrid (depending whose definition you use) and it's short.
The polyrhythm needn't really come into it, as this can be changed - so yes, it's non-unique as the move is really just a variant, not just a move as such.

Maybe

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Posted: 26th Jun 2007

 Written by: simian

That is not a name, it's a monster.

I still like Mercedes but I understand your objections

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Posted: 26th Jun 2007
'that other move'

https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2299314783556055902#3m33s



LazyAngel again (thanks!) , 3 min 33s in

(this move looks utterly amazing with hyperlights, ta for showing me G)



[edit] ooo google added deep video linking (with #), nice, url changed

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Posted: 26th Jun 2007
Oh, Simian, I've still got your Uber photo

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Posted: 26th Jun 2007
Yakumo - that's just a split-time poi, split-time arm butterfly flower or "That cool move"

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Posted: 26th Jun 2007
it's also antispun in this case.

but again i'd refer you to the simian quote above

I'd seen it in these vids months ago and just thought 'neet' and not thought about it again, seeing G doing it really cleanly, head to head, with Hyperlights at Southern Lights left me utterly gobsmacked though

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Posted: 26th Jun 2007
Sorry, yes, you're right it's an anti-spin split-time b/f flower

The problem is, (as has been discussed several times before), that you can't name every move as they're are just too many of them, especially with all the variants...
So to keep things "simple" you end up with silly long names, cos then people who don't don't know what a "Kelvin" is can think "it's called an 'Isolated Antispun Butterfly Weave' so I'll take my butterfly weave, isolate it and anti-spin it and that's how you get it"

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Posted: 26th Jun 2007

 Written by: UnderControlOrFailure



I think Motley means in Wheelchairplane, not wall plane.... I think...





If you can do those, crossed, in wallplane, I'll eat the first fat person I see.

Yes I do mean in wheelchairplane. Thanks for clarifying UCOF



Sorry



Nx/Simain/anyone else can you do these and are you coming to Play? I think you can see where I'm going with this



Edit: To add something remotely on topic to the conversation I now understand what your describing, but I cant do it and I dont know what to call it



Motley
EDITED_BY: Motley (1182883668)

Posted: 26th Jun 2007
ok, i think we can call it mercadese just to piss monkey off

and we can have all the variants, maybe this one is called a single or front plane mecedes.

Live merceadies!

T

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

Posted: 26th Jun 2007
durbs sed:

"No way is this anything to do with a fountain - so you can leave that idea right now"



i agree with this quite a lot.

fountain as a move was defined pretty unambiguously yonks ago.

fountain as a family of moves is a hop thing and links follow-time/split-time weaves with a longarm circle.

the move nx? is on about ain't no fountain cos there's no cross-follow (cross-follow means 'weave' in old man language kiddies).



ltc sed:

"that's funny... I was always told that antispin contains no isolation..."



whoever told you that ed was wrong and not funny at all

isolation is intrinsic to antispin patterns.

that's taking a definition of isolation as something like 'a point of rotation between hand and poi head'.



if anyone thinks i'm talking crap there, show me antispin where there's no rotation point between hand and poi head and i'll eat my words, my hat, my poi and some ice cream afterwards to cheer me up

you can't make a loop without isolation.

and you can quote me on that



most of the rest of what ed said beyond that was rubbish too but we'll let him off cos he's cute and talented and can do all these moves anyway.



on the subject of hyperbolic simian's...

it is my firm belief that stick-trained monkeys are ethically unsound.

i prefer monkey whispering as a training technique.

it results in far lower levels of random rhetoric nonsense in poi forums



durbs suggested the name 'goofy hybrid' which this moves fits into perfectly.

its split-time poi (although as its butterfly, it doesn't have to be split-time - changing the timing just rotates the trifoil) with same-time hands, one of the poi is doing a longarm circle and the other poi has isolation

'butterfly hybrid' would do probably but i haven't read the hybrid thread on tribe so i'm not sure if that's been clearly defined already?

i prefer 'garthy hybrid' cos its a miles better name and reminds me of the ejc and ireland where he showed it me



the polyrhythm aspect is confusatronic maximoso but i'll try and break it down.

as nx? rightly said, the 3-loop antispin pattern is the 'natural' pattern for the antispin poi.

what that really means might take a bit of thinking about.

luckily i already did that so just meditate on this and you should understand why nice and quick:

three loops is the minimum number of loops you can spin with a poi in an antispin pattern that starts and ends at the same point.



the garthy hybrid is a 1:1 pattern.



here's why:

a normal spin transition (in this case a longarm circle) with an antispin transition (in this case the antispin equivalent of a longarm circle - a trifoil) along the same path, with equal poi speeds, will produce different numbers of 'beats' for each poi.

but only because the counting systems don't mix.

the important bit is this: the poi heads travel the same total distance.

i.e. the length of the trifoil path of one poi head is equal to the length of the longarm circle path of the other poi head.

if the poi travel the same distance over the same amount of time, then they're not spinning a true polyrhythm.



an actual polyrhythm variation of this move would be to spin the normal spin (longarm circle) poi faster to produce three 'beats' (or 'normal spin petals/loops' if you prefer).

its really hard to spin cos its super fast and i just tried and can't do it.

i'm not sure what the ratio of speeds works out at but i reckon its 3:1.

i'll happily be corrected on that one if someone can be bothered to do the maths



incidentally, i'll be rehashing my polyrhythm thread soon so that it more accurately defines polyrhythm as those moves that involve different ratios of poi speeds.

i'll be separating these out from the type of move we've been talking about above which just mixes longarm circles with wrist circles and gives two patterns with different numbers of loops in them but with equal poi speed throughout.

so don't go read the polyrhythm thread and try to reconcile it with what i've just said cos it's slightly contradictary





the move yakumo is on about is indeed an anti-spin butterfly move.

the simplest way of thinking of it is as the antispin variation of doing a long arm split-time butterfly.

just try it and you'll see this move is 'antispin longarm split-time butterfly'



you have to change the speed slightly so you get 4 loops through the longarm circles and you can style it out by moving your hands in lines (in a box actually) instead of in a circle but its still the same move at heart.

aside: when nick does this move it could be considered an antispin variation of a bastardised buzzsaw butterly fountain because he does the loops at either side between his arms (in buzzsaw) - but that's just cos he's nick



miss all you's guys and chatting crap like this all day long



cole. x
EDITED_BY: coleman (1182893879)

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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007

 Written by: coleman


most of the rest of what ed said beyond that was rubbish too but we'll let him off cos he's cute and talented and can do all these moves anyway.

Flattery will get you everywhere.

I miss your posts of reason.

When will i see you again Colemann?

Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

Posted: 26th Jun 2007
Cool, so I'm right

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Posted: 27th Jun 2007
No, you're still wrong. However, Cole is mostly right.

This pattern is both goofy and a hybrid.

However you are saying we should uniquely identify this exact pattern as THE goofy hybrid.

Why use this combination of descriptive terms as a unique identifier for this particular pattern, when other patterns could also satisfy both criteria?

a pattern with {same direction poi, butterfly arms, one longarm, one isolated} would also be a goofy hybrid, but is completely different to this move.

also, it would probably look quite cool.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Posted: 27th Jun 2007
Garthy hybrid is better though



Garfy goofy is IMO perfect

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Posted: 27th Jun 2007
garth goof is a bit too silly for such a beutifull move tho... :P

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

Posted: 27th Jun 2007
you're missing the obvious shortening to 'garthybrid'

Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

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Posted: 27th Jun 2007

 Written by: simian


However you are saying we should uniquely identify this exact pattern as THE goofy hybrid.

True, but then there are lots of other examples of this being the case...
"Flowers" are generallly used for a standard 4-bt pattern, not just the grouping.
"Not 1.5s" are used for the pendulum weave, as well as the whole theory applied to most moves.
"Corkscrew" is used as the name of a move and also by many as a plane description

But, now I'm just being picky

I don't care what it's called, it just looks and feels nice.

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Posted: 27th Jun 2007
yeah, a general name for the variations with a hook into the most common move as described above.

T

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

Posted: 27th Jun 2007
simian - correct your eyes and return to page one:

 Written by: Durbs


Or just "goofy hybrid" as a move genre

so i reckon durbs was 'right' from the get go.

all i did was say why (and blather on about antispin and polyrhythm fundamental theory which no-one else is really interested in).


cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Posted: 27th Jun 2007

 Written by: coleman



all i did was say why (and blather on about antispin and polyrhythm fundamental theory which no-one else is really interested in).

cole. x

not true, cole, not true. color me interested. a lurker, but an interested lurker.

taken out of context i must seem so strange
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