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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Can we name this move? (bf anti-poly flower)

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

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Posted:yeah so, poi are splittime butterfly, one hand does a logarm circle whilst the other follows it doing a tri-foil antispin.

Its a great move and i would like to call it something better than bf anti-poly flower. and its not really a flower...

sugestions?

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
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Yakumo
SILVER Member since May 2006

Yakumo

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Posted:yeah, I like the idea of Mercedes too, it also gives the descriptive Mercedes switch, or changeover, too, both work nicely, and are nicely shorter than 'butterfly atom' (which wasn't exclusive enough as that can be done as a flower)



And I think Eddie Izzard's got copyright on naming everything geoff wink


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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

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Posted:What about calling it, "the monkey" in honour of simian who always thinks up the perfect names for moves ubbrollsmile

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Yakumo
SILVER Member since May 2006

Yakumo

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Posted:but I know of so many crazy things we all call a monkey cos of him smile

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simian


simian

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Posted:MERCEDES!?!?!

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??!??

THAT'S THE WORST NAME I'VE EVER HEARD

it describes the pattern created, which can be replicated by all sorts of different movements, and is non-specific to this particular variation you're discussing.

ubbangel


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Yakumo
SILVER Member since May 2006

Yakumo

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Posted:if anyone has 'Yoshiky vid for 2007.wmv' the (prospective) Mercedes, with changeovers, is exactly 5 min in.



I'm still looking for the butterfly antispin wipe/etchasketch/swipe thing..



and lol simian, you suggested it tongue


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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

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Posted:Bluecat, brownian thing... is that the butterfly and drawing a pentagram with your hands?

Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
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bluecat


bluecat

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Posted:apparently so....

ubblol

thanks for making me laugh, a lot, simian biggrin hug


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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

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Posted:Mercedes conjures up images of hot spanish chicks in my mind... Plus, as le singe said, you can re-create the pattern in different ways, not just with this one.

"Goofy hybrid" is short and about 83% accurate...


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simian


simian

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Posted:Durbs, what you have there is an incomplete, non-unique, inaccurate and hideously repugnant use of terminology.

That is not a name, it's a monster.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Yakumo
SILVER Member since May 2006

Yakumo

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Posted:There's a vid I've found on my machine called 'dirty sox and lazy spinning' the other move I was talking about is 4.42 in, I've just no idea who's spinning unless the 'lazy' in the title is cos it's lazyangel, and no idea where the vid came from originally, doh.



[edit] found the hop thread, it is one of lazyangels vid's, can I whack it on youtube for you lazy?


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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

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Posted:I know, but so was "1.5", though these are now called "Not 1.5s"...
So perhaps "Not Goofy Hybrids"

In the names defence, they feel a lot like a "normal" hybrid, only one poi is going the wrong way ( la Goofy flowers") and you can do it one-beat-each-side like a normal hybrid.
The 3:1 polyrhythm is the natural rhythm, but this can be changed, from 1:1 to (possibly) 18:1 with a bit of tweaking.

I don't think it's hideously inaccurate - it is goofy (Def: One with spin, one anti-spin, arms same direction), it is kinda hybrid (depending whose definition you use) and it's short.
The polyrhythm needn't really come into it, as this can be changed - so yes, it's non-unique as the move is really just a variant, not just a move as such.

Maybe


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Yakumo
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Yakumo

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Posted: Written by: simian

That is not a name, it's a monster.



ubblol

I still like Mercedes but I understand your objections


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Yakumo
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Yakumo

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Posted:'that other move'

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2299314783556055902#3m33s



LazyAngel again (thanks!) , 3 min 33s in smile

(this move looks utterly amazing with hyperlights, ta for showing me G)



[edit] ooo google added deep video linking (with #), nice, url changed


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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

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Posted:Oh, Simian, I've still got your Uber photo smile

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

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Posted:Yakumo - that's just a split-time poi, split-time arm butterfly flower or "That cool move" wink

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Yakumo
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Yakumo

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Posted:it's also antispun in this case.

but again i'd refer you to the simian quote above biggrin

I'd seen it in these vids months ago and just thought 'neet' and not thought about it again, seeing G doing it really cleanly, head to head, with Hyperlights at Southern Lights left me utterly gobsmacked though smile


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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

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Posted:Sorry, yes, you're right it's an anti-spin split-time b/f flower

The problem is, (as has been discussed several times before), that you can't name every move as they're are just too many of them, especially with all the variants...
So to keep things "simple" you end up with silly long names, cos then people who don't don't know what a "Kelvin" is can think "it's called an 'Isolated Antispun Butterfly Weave' so I'll take my butterfly weave, isolate it and anti-spin it and that's how you get it" smile


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Motley
GOLD Member since Oct 2005

Motley

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Posted: Written by: UnderControlOrFailure



I think Motley means in Wheelchairplane, not wall plane.... I think...

tongue



If you can do those, crossed, in wallplane, I'll eat the first fat person I see.





Yes I do mean in wheelchairplane. Thanks for clarifying UCOF



Sorry offtopic



Nx/Simain/anyone else can you do these and are you coming to Play? I think you can see where I'm going with this biggrin



Edit: To add something remotely on topic to the conversation I now understand what your describing, but I cant do it and I dont know what to call it ubblol



Motley

EDITED_BY: Motley (1182883668)


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

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Posted:ok, i think we can call it mercadese just to piss monkey off wink

and we can have all the variants, maybe this one is called a single or front plane mecedes.

Live merceadies!

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

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Posted:durbs sed:

"No way is this anything to do with a fountain - so you can leave that idea right now"



i agree with this quite a lot.

fountain as a move was defined pretty unambiguously yonks ago.

fountain as a family of moves is a hop thing and links follow-time/split-time weaves with a longarm circle.

the move nx? is on about ain't no fountain cos there's no cross-follow (cross-follow means 'weave' in old man language kiddies).



ltc sed:

"that's funny... I was always told that antispin contains no isolation..."



whoever told you that ed was wrong and not funny at all tongue

isolation is intrinsic to antispin patterns.

that's taking a definition of isolation as something like 'a point of rotation between hand and poi head'.



if anyone thinks i'm talking crap there, show me antispin where there's no rotation point between hand and poi head and i'll eat my words, my hat, my poi and some ice cream afterwards to cheer me up smile

you can't make a loop without isolation.

and you can quote me on that wink



most of the rest of what ed said beyond that was rubbish too but we'll let him off cos he's cute and talented and can do all these moves anyway.



on the subject of hyperbolic simian's...

it is my firm belief that stick-trained monkeys are ethically unsound.

i prefer monkey whispering as a training technique.

it results in far lower levels of random rhetoric nonsense in poi forums wink



durbs suggested the name 'goofy hybrid' which this moves fits into perfectly.

its split-time poi (although as its butterfly, it doesn't have to be split-time - changing the timing just rotates the trifoil) with same-time hands, one of the poi is doing a longarm circle and the other poi has isolation shrug

'butterfly hybrid' would do probably but i haven't read the hybrid thread on tribe so i'm not sure if that's been clearly defined already?

i prefer 'garthy hybrid' cos its a miles better name and reminds me of the ejc and ireland where he showed it me smile



the polyrhythm aspect is confusatronic maximoso but i'll try and break it down.

as nx? rightly said, the 3-loop antispin pattern is the 'natural' pattern for the antispin poi.

what that really means might take a bit of thinking about.

luckily i already did that so just meditate on this and you should understand why nice and quick:

three loops is the minimum number of loops you can spin with a poi in an antispin pattern that starts and ends at the same point.



the garthy hybrid is a 1:1 pattern.



here's why:

a normal spin transition (in this case a longarm circle) with an antispin transition (in this case the antispin equivalent of a longarm circle - a trifoil) along the same path, with equal poi speeds, will produce different numbers of 'beats' for each poi.

but only because the counting systems don't mix.

the important bit is this: the poi heads travel the same total distance.

i.e. the length of the trifoil path of one poi head is equal to the length of the longarm circle path of the other poi head.

if the poi travel the same distance over the same amount of time, then they're not spinning a true polyrhythm.



an actual polyrhythm variation of this move would be to spin the normal spin (longarm circle) poi faster to produce three 'beats' (or 'normal spin petals/loops' if you prefer).

its really hard to spin cos its super fast and i just tried and can't do it.

i'm not sure what the ratio of speeds works out at but i reckon its 3:1.

i'll happily be corrected on that one if someone can be bothered to do the maths smile



incidentally, i'll be rehashing my polyrhythm thread soon so that it more accurately defines polyrhythm as those moves that involve different ratios of poi speeds.

i'll be separating these out from the type of move we've been talking about above which just mixes longarm circles with wrist circles and gives two patterns with different numbers of loops in them but with equal poi speed throughout.

so don't go read the polyrhythm thread and try to reconcile it with what i've just said cos it's slightly contradictary wink





the move yakumo is on about is indeed an anti-spin butterfly move.

the simplest way of thinking of it is as the antispin variation of doing a long arm split-time butterfly.

just try it and you'll see this move is 'antispin longarm split-time butterfly' smile



you have to change the speed slightly so you get 4 loops through the longarm circles and you can style it out by moving your hands in lines (in a box actually) instead of in a circle but its still the same move at heart.

aside: when nick does this move it could be considered an antispin variation of a bastardised buzzsaw butterly fountain because he does the loops at either side between his arms (in buzzsaw) - but that's just cos he's nick ubblove



miss all you's guys and chatting crap like this all day long frown hug smile



cole. x

EDITED_BY: coleman (1182893879)


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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

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Location: Bristol UK

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Posted: Written by: coleman


most of the rest of what ed said beyond that was rubbish too but we'll let him off cos he's cute and talented and can do all these moves anyway.



Flattery will get you everywhere. smile

I miss your posts of reason.

When will i see you again Colemann?


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

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Posted:Cool, so I'm right biggrin tongue

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
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Posted:No, you're still wrong. However, Cole is mostly right.

This pattern is both goofy and a hybrid.

However you are saying we should uniquely identify this exact pattern as THE goofy hybrid.

Why use this combination of descriptive terms as a unique identifier for this particular pattern, when other patterns could also satisfy both criteria?

a pattern with {same direction poi, butterfly arms, one longarm, one isolated} would also be a goofy hybrid, but is completely different to this move.

also, it would probably look quite cool.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

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Posted:Garthy hybrid is better though smile



Garfy goofy is IMO perfect


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

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Posted:garth goof is a bit too silly for such a beutifull move tho... :P

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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LazyAngel
GOLD Member since Jul 2004

LazyAngel

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Posted:you're missing the obvious shortening to 'garthybrid' wink

Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

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Posted: Written by: simian


However you are saying we should uniquely identify this exact pattern as THE goofy hybrid.




True, but then there are lots of other examples of this being the case...
"Flowers" are generallly used for a standard 4-bt pattern, not just the grouping.
"Not 1.5s" are used for the pendulum weave, as well as the whole theory applied to most moves.
"Corkscrew" is used as the name of a move and also by many as a plane description

But, now I'm just being picky smile

I don't care what it's called, it just looks and feels nice.


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

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Posted:yeah, a general name for the variations with a hook into the most common move as described above. shrug

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

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Posted:simian - correct your eyes and return to page one:

 Written by: Durbs


Or just "goofy hybrid" as a move genre



so i reckon durbs was 'right' from the get go.

all i did was say why (and blather on about antispin and polyrhythm fundamental theory which no-one else is really interested in).


cole. x


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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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_khan_
SILVER Member since Nov 2004

_khan_

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Posted: Written by: coleman



all i did was say why (and blather on about antispin and polyrhythm fundamental theory which no-one else is really interested in).

cole. x



not true, cole, not true. color me interested. a lurker, but an interested lurker. rolleyes


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