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squid
squid

sanguine
Location: sur
Member Since: 15th Apr 2007
Total posts: 382
Posted:I am practicing making monkey fists with some 3/8" nylon rope, using the Flamma Aeterna method of putting a small fist inside a larger one, so that only one rope end needs to be trimmed. weavesmiley

The finished product is 2.5 inches in diameter, but it feels much lighter than my sock poi (same size with juggling balls). juggle

So my question is about the weight of the kevlar rope. How much does one wick weigh, both dry and after soaking?

And out of curiosity, what are the dry and total weights for monkey fists with a wooden core (1.5")....and are there any other kind of cores to add weight?

ideas? ubbidea

smilies? wink biggrin biggrin


"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow


Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:Well it is impossible to tell really, as everyone will be using different sized rope, and everyone will have their knots different tightness, but I think they are usually actually really quite heavy.


squid
squid

sanguine
Location: sur
Member Since: 15th Apr 2007
Total posts: 382
Posted:That's what I keep hearing, which makes me curious as to why mine feel so light. Im assuming that there is a difference in weight/density between the nylon rope I tested and actual aramid fibers.

But, to help create some unity, lets say that what Im asking is for the weight of HoP's own 2.5" monkey fist wicks, using the 3/8" rope kevlar.

As for the tightness of the knot, that might affect the weight when soaked, but it shouldn't be a huge difference.


"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow


Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:Well, the amount of kevlar on a wick reall makes a huge difference. You'd be suprised.


squid
squid

sanguine
Location: sur
Member Since: 15th Apr 2007
Total posts: 382
Posted:I do get the feeling you are correct. wink I would be surprised. I am thinking that I am going to need to suck it up and just buy a pair of these wicks first so that I can compare the weights.

hate doing that, though. I love constructing things myself and I really want that " from-the-ground-up" connection with my first fire spin.

Does no one actually know the weight of your average HoP monkey wick?


"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow


squid
squid

sanguine
Location: sur
Member Since: 15th Apr 2007
Total posts: 382
Posted:i dont know if this interests or helps anyone, but I found one company (Salza.se) that lists the individual monkey heads at 80 grams (or about 2.8 ounces) and the total weight of the pair of poi at 270 grams.

The interesting thing is that Salza has a rolled wick poi which looks fairly equivilent in size to HoP's standard rolled wicks and they weigh in at only 45 grams. That makes the monkey fist almost double the weight.


"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow


FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Sorry, can't help with this one. Maybe ask George? They also do sell KevlaR/ wick, not just finished products (unless you want to make the wick yourself, too)... There is KevlaR and there is other stuff, some are good quality, some are substituted with glass fibres (different densities)... I guess that everybody and every manufacturer can only tell you the density and weight of her/ his own product...

Certainly you can use different woods in the core of a monkey fist (apart from different sizes and different materials like aluminium or even (hollow) steel, which could serve as an additional kero container) - all of this will affect the weight and qualities of the monkey fist.

Keep in mind that (when it comes to spinning) the correlation of head to chain is important. The quality and comfort of spinning is greatly affected by it.

Everybody has her/ his own preference - some like it hot, some like it hotter, some don't like heat at all (and use glowballs for that reason)... you will have to work out your own formula (or accommodate with what's available on the market)...

Might not have been of great help, huh?

Building firetoys has never been an easy equation ubblol

Good luck


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


squid
squid

sanguine
Location: sur
Member Since: 15th Apr 2007
Total posts: 382
Posted:from what I have researched and experimented with, the longer the chain is, the heavier you want the head to be to help the momentum of the swing in overcoming the drag of the chain itself.

Luckily Im not all that tall, so I was aiming at a set that was about 23 inches long. That means (I hope) that the fists themselves dont have to be the heaviest possible.

but dont knock yourself, FireTom. You were a help. smile I totally forgot about the variable mixtures that kevlar might be from one manufacturer to another.

I do actually want to build my own monkey wicks, but am getting impatient and may just have to purchase them. I only need the wicks though. I've already assembled the chains, swivels, and loops. smile


"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow


darkness-before
darkness-before

Rock is dead, long live paper and scissors
Location: The sea
Member Since: 24th Apr 2007
Total posts: 197
Posted:Squid, first things first, bigger wicks soak more fuel, wick size and quantity of matierial etc all vary depending on your style of wicks etc...

But a general rule for fluid is that it wieghs around 1kg per litre. Almost all of what you put on will be burnt off though so I wouldn't rely on the wieght of the fluid to make your poi more comfortable.

I'm tempted to suggest a steel nut or something simmilar inside your monkeys fist to add extra weight simmilar to what sailors used to do. But that will mean they have a VERY hot core even after being left to cool for a while. Can't imagine this will be a huge problem as most poi have cores/metal parts but its something to think about before making a very heavy monkeys fist that stays very hot after use.


Eagles may soar but weasles don't get sucked into jet engines.

Telepath wanted, you know where to apply.


squid
squid

sanguine
Location: sur
Member Since: 15th Apr 2007
Total posts: 382
Posted:What about just a plain old rock? A porous granite or similar stone would absorb a tiny bit of fuel and add quite a bit of weight.

Only thing Im really not sure about is whether it retains heat similar to the way a steel nut would. It would be nice to have the poi not generating excessive heat after a burn.


"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow


Cody
Cody

That guy from Reno
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2003
Total posts: 556
Posted:The nylon is definately lighter than kevlar. My bet is that you'll get more weight with just usign the correct rope. If you want to test it try tying the knot with different rope like hemp. If your idea is to buy a length of kevlar to make your own poi just go for it. Also try out a four strand monkey's fist knot if your using the three strand knot now. If your after just the poi heads Renegade juggling sells blaze balls, arguably the first monkey's fist poi heads on the market. smile

Good Luck
Cody


Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada


squid
squid

sanguine
Location: sur
Member Since: 15th Apr 2007
Total posts: 382
Posted:Thanks, Cody. smile

Ive built a practice set using a heavier type rope and the 4-bight knot, so its definitely working out better than my original attempts. Its nice and heavy and works well on my chains.

I think now that I have the hang of making a decent monkey fist, I feel more comfortable in spending the money for kevlar rope to make my own. There is something more personal about having made them myself.


"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow


mcnappy
stranger

Member Since: 3rd Mar 2009
Total posts: 4
Posted:The weight of the monkey fist chain link poi says that the weight is 440g. Is this weight for the ball only, the ball and chain, or both balls ect. ect....????

PLease help

also i heard chain link is best for wraps. is this true?




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