Forums > Social Discussion > Should pedophiles recieve the death penalty?
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just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
Ive just read about the proposals to execute pedophiles. I did a search and I did see [Old link] but the discussion on that thread is a bit all over the place. So id like to direct it a little bit more and ask people to adhere to the following underlying assumptions that if need discussion should be put in another thread
1. The pedophile has been found guilty from irrefutable evidence (ie found photos of the pedophile performing the act or whatever, such that their is no doubt they are guilty)
2. The prison system does not rehabilitate inmates
3. Chemical castration is not 100% preventative (ie it doesn't address the psychological disorders that cause some pedophiles to want to hurt children)
4. The mental health system is currently overloaded with many patents not receiving the care they need (ie there are lots of cracks for pedophiles to fall through if they where to be put into treatment)
5. Pedophiles are often released early from jail after only serving a few years
So assuming that the above statements 2-5 are unlikely to change and statement 1 is true do you think that pedophiles should continue to be sentenced to short jail terms and then allowed back into the community or should they receive the death penalty for the consequences of their actions or is their another realistic option?
EDITED_BY: ben-ja-men (1180430928)
Ive just read about the proposals to execute pedophiles. I did a search and I did see [Old link] but the discussion on that thread is a bit all over the place. So id like to direct it a little bit more and ask people to adhere to the following underlying assumptions that if need discussion should be put in another thread
1. The pedophile has been found guilty from irrefutable evidence (ie found photos of the pedophile performing the act or whatever, such that their is no doubt they are guilty)
2. The prison system does not rehabilitate inmates
3. Chemical castration is not 100% preventative (ie it doesn't address the psychological disorders that cause some pedophiles to want to hurt children)
4. The mental health system is currently overloaded with many patents not receiving the care they need (ie there are lots of cracks for pedophiles to fall through if they where to be put into treatment)
5. Pedophiles are often released early from jail after only serving a few years
So assuming that the above statements 2-5 are unlikely to change and statement 1 is true do you think that pedophiles should continue to be sentenced to short jail terms and then allowed back into the community or should they receive the death penalty for the consequences of their actions or is their another realistic option?
EDITED_BY: ben-ja-men (1180430928)
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
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19 posts
Location: San Mateo, CA, USA
newbie
19 posts
Location: San Mateo, CA, USA
Posted:
well, if murderers get the death penalty, then pedophiles should get molested as their punishment.
well, if murderers get the death penalty, then pedophiles should get molested as their punishment.
"A beautiful day. When it ends nothing remains the way it was..."
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
So you think pedophiles should be molested and then released into the community after serving their jail term? Interesting theory I fail to see how that would undo the psychological behavioral patterns that caused them to abuse others in the first place, especially as a high percentage of sexual predators where abused as children. I would guess that this form of punishment would only reinforce that behavior and increase the likelihood of re offending.
So you think pedophiles should be molested and then released into the community after serving their jail term? Interesting theory I fail to see how that would undo the psychological behavioral patterns that caused them to abuse others in the first place, especially as a high percentage of sexual predators where abused as children. I would guess that this form of punishment would only reinforce that behavior and increase the likelihood of re offending.
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
Carpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
Posted:
they should stop mollycoddling these nonces and put them into the general population of the prison so they can become someones beyatch. 1st night in *bosh* out come their front teeth
they should stop mollycoddling these nonces and put them into the general population of the prison so they can become someones beyatch. 1st night in *bosh* out come their front teeth
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ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
I am generally against the death penalty - although do understand the perspective of countries/states who still use the death penalty for murder crimes and war crimes.
however i completely disagree for having a death penalty for crimes that do not directly cause death. Thats just opening up an entire can of worms.
i disagree with the use of points 2, 3, 4, and 5 as any arguement for a death penalty.
i think pedophilia is absolutely abhorrent - but then again i think the same about any rape crime as well. in fact theres a whole bunch of crimes and conditions which many of your above points could apply to.
point 2) its a hard one to prove - and data on the rate of reoffending? its a scary prospect that its deemed prison wont help you learn your lesson so you die. Sound like a regression of civilisation to me. kind of like shipping all the convict to australia and trying to forget about them...
point 3) its NOT 100% effective - so it could be say 99% effective? 45% effective? no cure is perfect. look at stats before id decide.
point 4) is especially of note - not enough mental health care in the country - so we execute them instead. if psychological problems are indeed the cause - especially from troubled childhoods - what have we become to put it in the 'too hard' basket and send them to the chair.
point 5) applies to any number of criminals.
and counter points that apply to all of the above. where do you draw the line? internet child porn? rape as a whole? some girl you picked up who turned out to be 15 but lied? what if it genuinely is a one-off stupid thing you did, are genuinely remorseful, and will not do it again.
those points rely on blanket statements and lynch mob logic. Justice is hopefully as blind and devoid of emotion as possible - and you are judged on your crimes - not on hypothetical futures. im happy keeping it like that.
that being said - ankle bracelets for life, castration for repeat offenders - yeah i could handle that. and if associate with a murder, im not entire 100% against it - but the negatives of such legislation should seriously be considered first!
E.
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1180436707)
I am generally against the death penalty - although do understand the perspective of countries/states who still use the death penalty for murder crimes and war crimes.
however i completely disagree for having a death penalty for crimes that do not directly cause death. Thats just opening up an entire can of worms.
i disagree with the use of points 2, 3, 4, and 5 as any arguement for a death penalty.
i think pedophilia is absolutely abhorrent - but then again i think the same about any rape crime as well. in fact theres a whole bunch of crimes and conditions which many of your above points could apply to.
point 2) its a hard one to prove - and data on the rate of reoffending? its a scary prospect that its deemed prison wont help you learn your lesson so you die. Sound like a regression of civilisation to me. kind of like shipping all the convict to australia and trying to forget about them...
point 3) its NOT 100% effective - so it could be say 99% effective? 45% effective? no cure is perfect. look at stats before id decide.
point 4) is especially of note - not enough mental health care in the country - so we execute them instead. if psychological problems are indeed the cause - especially from troubled childhoods - what have we become to put it in the 'too hard' basket and send them to the chair.
point 5) applies to any number of criminals.
and counter points that apply to all of the above. where do you draw the line? internet child porn? rape as a whole? some girl you picked up who turned out to be 15 but lied? what if it genuinely is a one-off stupid thing you did, are genuinely remorseful, and will not do it again.
those points rely on blanket statements and lynch mob logic. Justice is hopefully as blind and devoid of emotion as possible - and you are judged on your crimes - not on hypothetical futures. im happy keeping it like that.
that being said - ankle bracelets for life, castration for repeat offenders - yeah i could handle that. and if associate with a murder, im not entire 100% against it - but the negatives of such legislation should seriously be considered first!
E.
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1180436707)
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4,145 posts
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had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
What 87 says about 2., 4. and 5.
Basically if the question is, would you rather improve the system and enforce the possibilities that are already there, or kill people because it's less work in the end, I know which one I'd consider just as criminal as the original offence.
You acknowledge, in 3. and 4., the fact that there are psychological disorders that need to be treated or cured or monitored. Sure, just kill them instead cause that would be so much easier than having to actually look after the system you've put in place to protect the population.
What 87 says about 2., 4. and 5.
Basically if the question is, would you rather improve the system and enforce the possibilities that are already there, or kill people because it's less work in the end, I know which one I'd consider just as criminal as the original offence.
You acknowledge, in 3. and 4., the fact that there are psychological disorders that need to be treated or cured or monitored. Sure, just kill them instead cause that would be so much easier than having to actually look after the system you've put in place to protect the population.
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GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Should pedophiles receive the death penalty?
Why are there pedophiles?
Should pedophiles receive the death penalty?
Why are there pedophiles?
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
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Location: brizvegas, Australia
Posted:
i agree with pretty much all of what dentrassi said!
though i do have to disagree with one point ben mentioned - that "a high percentage of sexual predators where abused as children". i am probably going to sound pedantic, but that point is not true (& i only know australian stats). while there is a percentage of sexual offenders who were themselves abused as children - it's not a 'high' percentage, & certainly not a majority. i wish i could give you a source for that information, but unfortunately i'm not at work & don't have the stats in front of me.
i work with juvenile sexual offenders. i know the system fails a lot of them...which in turn leads to more abuse. it sucks, but i don't know if the death penalty is going to solve the problem. there were plenty of reasons behind this country's decision to abolish the death penalty.
there also seems to have been an increase of sexual offences lately. either that, or they are just making the news more often. but that's an aside...
i am also not going to offer a solution - i work with young people (aged between 10 & 17 at the time of their offences) so we have a very different (i.e. restorative justice) framework to the adult system (i.e. not sure what their framework is!). & if i keep typing i'll REALLY start rambling!
*waits for society to fix itself*
i agree with pretty much all of what dentrassi said!
though i do have to disagree with one point ben mentioned - that "a high percentage of sexual predators where abused as children". i am probably going to sound pedantic, but that point is not true (& i only know australian stats). while there is a percentage of sexual offenders who were themselves abused as children - it's not a 'high' percentage, & certainly not a majority. i wish i could give you a source for that information, but unfortunately i'm not at work & don't have the stats in front of me.
i work with juvenile sexual offenders. i know the system fails a lot of them...which in turn leads to more abuse. it sucks, but i don't know if the death penalty is going to solve the problem. there were plenty of reasons behind this country's decision to abolish the death penalty.
there also seems to have been an increase of sexual offences lately. either that, or they are just making the news more often. but that's an aside...
i am also not going to offer a solution - i work with young people (aged between 10 & 17 at the time of their offences) so we have a very different (i.e. restorative justice) framework to the adult system (i.e. not sure what their framework is!). & if i keep typing i'll REALLY start rambling!
*waits for society to fix itself*
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Location: manchester uk
enthusiast
363 posts
Location: manchester uk
Posted:
the reason i would object is child abuse is noturiously difficult to determin with a 100% accuracy rateing there have been hudreds of cases of falsely accused people the most famous been when an entire school said that they had been sexualy molested in satanic rituals in the school basment by there teachers. it later transpired that the teqniques for recovering represed memorys often implant those memorys in the person (eg passed lives) espehsaly with children who are extreamly suggestable. meening children often say what they thing adults want to hear instead of whats actualy true. and after repeating it afew times they often convince them selfs its true as well.
of course children are genuanly abused and the perpitrator must be punished but advocateing a 100% final punishment for a crime that is often far from 100% certin is asking for trouble!! and sooner or later your gona end up executing someone whos inocent
EDITED_BY: robnunchucks (1180448074)
the reason i would object is child abuse is noturiously difficult to determin with a 100% accuracy rateing there have been hudreds of cases of falsely accused people the most famous been when an entire school said that they had been sexualy molested in satanic rituals in the school basment by there teachers. it later transpired that the teqniques for recovering represed memorys often implant those memorys in the person (eg passed lives) espehsaly with children who are extreamly suggestable. meening children often say what they thing adults want to hear instead of whats actualy true. and after repeating it afew times they often convince them selfs its true as well.
of course children are genuanly abused and the perpitrator must be punished but advocateing a 100% final punishment for a crime that is often far from 100% certin is asking for trouble!! and sooner or later your gona end up executing someone whos inocent
EDITED_BY: robnunchucks (1180448074)
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Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Posted:
Personally, I dont think anyone should receive the death penalty, no matter what their crime.
Personally, I dont think anyone should receive the death penalty, no matter what their crime.
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wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
ditto
though some people make it really hard to stand by that conviction
ditto
though some people make it really hard to stand by that conviction
Faith
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363 posts
Location: manchester uk
enthusiast
363 posts
Location: manchester uk
Posted:
personaly i would be in favor of the death penelty for the worse of crimes if we could ever be 100% sure of guilt but thats never the case.
personaly i would be in favor of the death penelty for the worse of crimes if we could ever be 100% sure of guilt but thats never the case.
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Posted:
if they think multipul brutal and meticulusly planed murders are right. then surely they would think puting someone to sleep by lethal injection was also ok.
if they think multipul brutal and meticulusly planed murders are right. then surely they would think puting someone to sleep by lethal injection was also ok.
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old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
People die for what they 'believe' is right all the time. Treason is punishable by death for example. If someone knows that their crime could end in their death, and they still do it anyways, I don't see any reason to have pity on them.
Should pedophiles recieve capital punishment? I would say all have very serious mental health issues that should be examined first. Predatory and violent offenders would be at the top of the capital punishment list so in some cases I would agree with it.
You need to realize that in many cases, the pedophile does not want to *hurt* children, they have an obsessive behaviour in relation to children. They "love" kids. Look at Michael Jackson, he doesn't stab and beat children.. he just loves them.. way... way too much, in an extremely unhealthy way for everyone involved.
People die for what they 'believe' is right all the time. Treason is punishable by death for example. If someone knows that their crime could end in their death, and they still do it anyways, I don't see any reason to have pity on them.
Should pedophiles recieve capital punishment? I would say all have very serious mental health issues that should be examined first. Predatory and violent offenders would be at the top of the capital punishment list so in some cases I would agree with it.
Written by:
3. Chemical castration is not 100% preventative (ie it doesn't address the psychological disorders that cause some pedophiles to want to hurt children)
You need to realize that in many cases, the pedophile does not want to *hurt* children, they have an obsessive behaviour in relation to children. They "love" kids. Look at Michael Jackson, he doesn't stab and beat children.. he just loves them.. way... way too much, in an extremely unhealthy way for everyone involved.
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Rock is dead, long live paper and scissors
197 posts
Location: The sea, United Kingdom
Rock is dead, long live paper and scissors
197 posts
Location: The sea, United Kingdom
Posted:
The big problems here are being 100% certain of guilt and this horrrible grey area of what would deserve the death penalty.
Take south america for example or half the contries in europe where the age of consent varies from 12 to 18. If a guy is arrested for sleeping with a 15 yr old does that mean he deserves the death penalty regardless of if he knew her age? How many times would someone have to offend to warrant losing there life?
How do you discern what exactly justifies somebody else losing the right to live? In theory it sounds like an easy solution that could prevent the worst offenders from ruining other peoples lives, which I'm all for. In practice it's just impossible to make a general rule on something like this. Though longer jil terms and attempting to actually improove the rehabiltation system sounds better. Still, if that fails.....
The big problems here are being 100% certain of guilt and this horrrible grey area of what would deserve the death penalty.
Take south america for example or half the contries in europe where the age of consent varies from 12 to 18. If a guy is arrested for sleeping with a 15 yr old does that mean he deserves the death penalty regardless of if he knew her age? How many times would someone have to offend to warrant losing there life?
How do you discern what exactly justifies somebody else losing the right to live? In theory it sounds like an easy solution that could prevent the worst offenders from ruining other peoples lives, which I'm all for. In practice it's just impossible to make a general rule on something like this. Though longer jil terms and attempting to actually improove the rehabiltation system sounds better. Still, if that fails.....
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Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
As Lurch says, it's all a matter of degree really. I'd support capital punishment for "the really nasty guys", but do you really want to bring out the guillotine for the elementary school principal who's caught with kiddy porn on his computer ?
As Lurch says, it's all a matter of degree really. I'd support capital punishment for "the really nasty guys", but do you really want to bring out the guillotine for the elementary school principal who's caught with kiddy porn on his computer ?
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Star Trekker
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Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom
Star Trekker
1,733 posts
Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
Stout, that's exactly the sort of person we SHOULD be punishing as they're in positions of trust with vulnerable people- he's the last guy I'd want responsible for my children on a day to day basis! However, I would differentiate between child pornograhpy and pictures of naked children - thank god in th UK we're over those dreadful days in the 80's & 90's when a mother was deemed almost a pervert herself for allowing her toddlers to play on the beach naked.
That said, much as i find these crimes abhorrant (and frankly incomprehensible), I can't condone the death penalty because we haven't found a way/can't afford to rehabilitate them - 2 wrongs never make it right
Unfortunately for Ben, we've ended up discussing the points we're supposed to take as read - inevitable because reviews of the moral issue of the death penalty have been undertaken in many countries and states around the world and those that decided to move away from it are seriously reluctant to go back there again as they feel it's not morally right to take a life, even in 'payment' for another life.
Stout, that's exactly the sort of person we SHOULD be punishing as they're in positions of trust with vulnerable people- he's the last guy I'd want responsible for my children on a day to day basis! However, I would differentiate between child pornograhpy and pictures of naked children - thank god in th UK we're over those dreadful days in the 80's & 90's when a mother was deemed almost a pervert herself for allowing her toddlers to play on the beach naked.
That said, much as i find these crimes abhorrant (and frankly incomprehensible), I can't condone the death penalty because we haven't found a way/can't afford to rehabilitate them - 2 wrongs never make it right
Unfortunately for Ben, we've ended up discussing the points we're supposed to take as read - inevitable because reviews of the moral issue of the death penalty have been undertaken in many countries and states around the world and those that decided to move away from it are seriously reluctant to go back there again as they feel it's not morally right to take a life, even in 'payment' for another life.
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Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
Yes, Wild Child, I agree, the reason I used that example is because it happened here last year. Mr. principal hasn't been accused of anything but possessing child porn ie. there's no reports of him actually touching or acting pedo in any way. But yes, he did violate a position of trust and certainly deserves to be denied contact with children.
But death ??? I don't think so. even if it was hardcore porn.
But what do I know? Maybe kiddy porn is the "first step" in an attraction that naturally escalates and left unchecked maybe this guy will 'evolve" into a child rapist at some stage of his life. It just seems to Patriot Actish to condemn someone to death for what could be viewed as a rather "minor" offense ( relatively speaking )
It's my guess that pedophiles exist in their own personal hell. Think about it, the whole world hates you. It's about the worst thing you can be in today's society, and to go through life KNOWING that the first thought most people would have, should you disclose your sexual orientation is cold blooded murder has to have some psychological effect on these guys.
We're all aware that capital punishment doesn't really prevent anything , and serves more as a "societies revenge" role if anything ( something I'm not personally above ) and in the past , we've seen some societies try to control some sexual orientations through capital punishment..Were they successful in "controlling the problem ? " Temporarily,, maybe.
note: yes I'm aware that using the term sexual orientation with reference to pedophiles is controversial, and I'm really hoping this post won't be taken as offensive by my use of that term, I'm trying to tread lightly, for once. If you do find it offensive, feel free to substitute the words fetish or paraphilia, for sexual orientation.
It's my guess that when the geneticists who're currently studying the human brain actually isolate the genes responsible for pedophillic behaviour, this will be the first trait they'll work on eliminating. Holy crap, there's a scary scenario, having your genetic makeup analysed at birth ( or in vivo ) and being identified as having a predisposition toward pedophilia....Then what ?
Yes, Wild Child, I agree, the reason I used that example is because it happened here last year. Mr. principal hasn't been accused of anything but possessing child porn ie. there's no reports of him actually touching or acting pedo in any way. But yes, he did violate a position of trust and certainly deserves to be denied contact with children.
But death ??? I don't think so. even if it was hardcore porn.
But what do I know? Maybe kiddy porn is the "first step" in an attraction that naturally escalates and left unchecked maybe this guy will 'evolve" into a child rapist at some stage of his life. It just seems to Patriot Actish to condemn someone to death for what could be viewed as a rather "minor" offense ( relatively speaking )
It's my guess that pedophiles exist in their own personal hell. Think about it, the whole world hates you. It's about the worst thing you can be in today's society, and to go through life KNOWING that the first thought most people would have, should you disclose your sexual orientation is cold blooded murder has to have some psychological effect on these guys.
We're all aware that capital punishment doesn't really prevent anything , and serves more as a "societies revenge" role if anything ( something I'm not personally above ) and in the past , we've seen some societies try to control some sexual orientations through capital punishment..Were they successful in "controlling the problem ? " Temporarily,, maybe.
note: yes I'm aware that using the term sexual orientation with reference to pedophiles is controversial, and I'm really hoping this post won't be taken as offensive by my use of that term, I'm trying to tread lightly, for once. If you do find it offensive, feel free to substitute the words fetish or paraphilia, for sexual orientation.
It's my guess that when the geneticists who're currently studying the human brain actually isolate the genes responsible for pedophillic behaviour, this will be the first trait they'll work on eliminating. Holy crap, there's a scary scenario, having your genetic makeup analysed at birth ( or in vivo ) and being identified as having a predisposition toward pedophilia....Then what ?
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
I totally agree, the reality is that these are unlikely to change which is why I didn't want to debate over these points. Its all well and good to hide behind a "in an ideal world" mentality to avoid having to face the reality of it, what im interested in if theres the yes no choice of Pedophiles getting a slap on the wrist even when they say they are going to do it again or pedophiles get the death penalty, which do you sacrifice? the child or the pedophile.
Or perhaps they know that by saying that they will get their jail term significantly shortened and released early.
Well unless your planning on making this your life's mission i would say that the reality of the system getting improved is very slim hence the initial assumptions for the discussion so we could talk about the reality of the situation instead of an ideal world.
Their intention isn't so much the point, if I where to cut your arm off, the reality for you is that you would have to live the rest of your life without that arm. The damage that is done to the victims is something that can not be erased it will be with them for the rest of their lives. I don't think its fair that the pedophile gets to destroy the lives of others and still get a second shot at their own.
So does that mean if someone where to abduct, rape and torture a child resulting in trauma such that the child became clinically insane they should not receive the death penalty simply because the child lived even though they will never have a functioning life?
Ankle bracelets are removable and dont reprevent repeat offense. Why would castration only be for repeat offenders? That seems to really put the rights of the offender above those of the victims surely its those who have not committed the crime that we should be protecting first?
Written by: 87wt2gxq7
to look at it simplistically, 2) - 5) are just failures of the State. For the State to execute paedos because of its own failings is just adding to its list of problems.
I totally agree, the reality is that these are unlikely to change which is why I didn't want to debate over these points. Its all well and good to hide behind a "in an ideal world" mentality to avoid having to face the reality of it, what im interested in if theres the yes no choice of Pedophiles getting a slap on the wrist even when they say they are going to do it again or pedophiles get the death penalty, which do you sacrifice? the child or the pedophile.
Written by: 87wt2gxq7
another point, a friend of mine works for the prison service and is involved with the rehabilitation of sex offenders. She says that most of the men she works with (the offenders!) know that they've done wrong and desperately want to change their behaviour.
Or perhaps they know that by saying that they will get their jail term significantly shortened and released early.
Written by: Birgit
Basically if the question is, would you rather improve the system and enforce the possibilities that are already there, or kill people because it's less work in the end, I know which one I'd consider just as criminal as the original offence.
Well unless your planning on making this your life's mission i would say that the reality of the system getting improved is very slim hence the initial assumptions for the discussion so we could talk about the reality of the situation instead of an ideal world.
Written by: Lurch
You need to realize that in many cases, the pedophile does not want to *hurt* children, they have an obsessive behaviour in relation to children.
Their intention isn't so much the point, if I where to cut your arm off, the reality for you is that you would have to live the rest of your life without that arm. The damage that is done to the victims is something that can not be erased it will be with them for the rest of their lives. I don't think its fair that the pedophile gets to destroy the lives of others and still get a second shot at their own.
Written by: Dentrassi
however i completely disagree for having a death penalty for crimes that do not directly cause death. Thats just opening up an entire can of worms.
So does that mean if someone where to abduct, rape and torture a child resulting in trauma such that the child became clinically insane they should not receive the death penalty simply because the child lived even though they will never have a functioning life?
Written by: Dentrassi
that being said - ankle bracelets for life, castration for repeat offenders - yeah i could handle that. and if associate with a murder, im not entire 100% against it - but the negatives of such legislation should seriously be considered first!
Ankle bracelets are removable and dont reprevent repeat offense. Why would castration only be for repeat offenders? That seems to really put the rights of the offender above those of the victims surely its those who have not committed the crime that we should be protecting first?
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
correct. hey if i had a child and that happened i probably would have a different view, with a much more emotional involved view, but i dont.
and how a child who has been abused will grow up is entirely hypothetical. they may overcome those traumas to lead a normal healthy life, they may be screwed up for their entire life, or somewhere in between.
i think that your example is definitely an extreme situation. i dont have stats handy, but im quite sure that most child abuse situations come from a relative or a friend of the family.
a close friend of mine has had to deal with a child abuse incident within his own family. the victim is too young to really understand - but hopefully with enough support of those who care for her, she can overcome those memories. i do not think death for the perpetrator in that case will help anything helpful. its wont take away what happened, and it would only cause more trauma for the family. its not a black and while issue.
theres many other crimes and other calamities which can screw the victims up for their entire lives. should child abuse be treated separately?
because thats denying even the opportunity for genuine remorse and rehabilitation. should i be banned for life from driving for 1 offense? my hand chopped off for a 1 off scuffle with a bouncer outside a bar? our criminal system tends towards lenancy for 1st time offenders, but successively more severe punishments for subsequent sentences. im fine with that. Its not a perfect system sure - i can always reoffend - but theres also a chance that i wont. I wish to be judged on my actions - not hypothetical what ifs. If my past actions have shown that im definitely going to reoffend then that a different story.
E.
Written by: ben-ja-menWritten by: Dentrassi
however i completely disagree for having a death penalty for crimes that do not directly cause death. Thats just opening up an entire can of worms.
So does that mean if someone where to abduct, rape and torture a child resulting in trauma such that the child became clinically insane they should not receive the death penalty simply because the child lived even though they will never have a functioning life?
correct. hey if i had a child and that happened i probably would have a different view, with a much more emotional involved view, but i dont.
and how a child who has been abused will grow up is entirely hypothetical. they may overcome those traumas to lead a normal healthy life, they may be screwed up for their entire life, or somewhere in between.
i think that your example is definitely an extreme situation. i dont have stats handy, but im quite sure that most child abuse situations come from a relative or a friend of the family.
a close friend of mine has had to deal with a child abuse incident within his own family. the victim is too young to really understand - but hopefully with enough support of those who care for her, she can overcome those memories. i do not think death for the perpetrator in that case will help anything helpful. its wont take away what happened, and it would only cause more trauma for the family. its not a black and while issue.
theres many other crimes and other calamities which can screw the victims up for their entire lives. should child abuse be treated separately?
Written by: BenWritten by: Dentrassi
that being said - ankle bracelets for life, castration for repeat offenders - yeah i could handle that. and if associate with a murder, im not entire 100% against it - but the negatives of such legislation should seriously be considered first!
Ankle bracelets are removable and dont reprevent repeat offense. Why would castration only be for repeat offenders? That seems to really put the rights of the offender above those of the victims surely its those who have not committed the crime that we should be protecting first?
because thats denying even the opportunity for genuine remorse and rehabilitation. should i be banned for life from driving for 1 offense? my hand chopped off for a 1 off scuffle with a bouncer outside a bar? our criminal system tends towards lenancy for 1st time offenders, but successively more severe punishments for subsequent sentences. im fine with that. Its not a perfect system sure - i can always reoffend - but theres also a chance that i wont. I wish to be judged on my actions - not hypothetical what ifs. If my past actions have shown that im definitely going to reoffend then that a different story.
E.
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
I would agree that the death penalty prevents genuine remorse and rehabilitation but how does castration prevent pedophiles from experiencing remorse and rehabilitation?
We aren't talking about stealing candy from a shop, we are talking about a horrific crime. Surely someone convicted of raping children is being judged on their actions, if they where castrated they could still go on to lead a meaningful life.
Written by: Dentrassi
because thats denying even the opportunity for genuine remorse and rehabilitation. should i be banned for life from driving for 1 offense? my hand chopped off for a 1 off scuffle with a bouncer outside a bar? our criminal system tends towards lenancy for 1st time offenders, but successively more severe punishments for subsequent sentences. im fine with that. Its not a perfect system sure - i can always reoffend - but theres also a chance that i wont. I wish to be judged on my actions - not hypothetical what ifs. If my past actions have shown that im definitely going to reoffend then that a different story.
I would agree that the death penalty prevents genuine remorse and rehabilitation but how does castration prevent pedophiles from experiencing remorse and rehabilitation?
We aren't talking about stealing candy from a shop, we are talking about a horrific crime. Surely someone convicted of raping children is being judged on their actions, if they where castrated they could still go on to lead a meaningful life.
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Nope. You asked a question, I answered. It's not unachievable. It would take more effort and money than to introduce the death penalty, yes. But it's possible. And as long as the penalty DOESN'T get introduced, money spent on improving systems that are technically already in place will in the long run be a good investment.
You say the paedophiles need therapy. To me that means that at least part of them are not fully responsible for what they are doing. Do you really approve of killing them because of a psychological defect?
By the way, statistically the chances of someone being raped by a re-offender are way below those of being raped by someone who's never been convicted of anything. What are you going to do about that then?
Nope. You asked a question, I answered. It's not unachievable. It would take more effort and money than to introduce the death penalty, yes. But it's possible. And as long as the penalty DOESN'T get introduced, money spent on improving systems that are technically already in place will in the long run be a good investment.
You say the paedophiles need therapy. To me that means that at least part of them are not fully responsible for what they are doing. Do you really approve of killing them because of a psychological defect?
By the way, statistically the chances of someone being raped by a re-offender are way below those of being raped by someone who's never been convicted of anything. What are you going to do about that then?
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
even if they want to change, doesn't mean that they will be successful.
Think about how many addicts promise change, even go into treatment, but fall back into their old ways
even if they want to change, doesn't mean that they will be successful.
Think about how many addicts promise change, even go into treatment, but fall back into their old ways
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
who is lumping drug "users" and rapists/ murderers into the same category? (couldn't resist)
I assume we're talking about a violent and forceful crime?
MY answer to the question about death penalty is simple:
It's barbaric - much like the crime itself. Therefore my answer is NO.
Why release someone out of his misery by delivering him to an uncertain future? The death penalty IMHO is heavily based upon the conception that there is (another) judgement after someone dies and the offender then would eternally suffer in hell... But who could verify this?
AND foremost there is the question: how many people are accused and sentenced, but are innocent...
If we allow criminals to drag us to their level, we as much are criminals and no better than them.
Another reason why I oppose the USofA's policies and laws IMHO the death penalty is dishonourable for a country that claims to be "the greatest democracy on earth".
As a sidenote: Castration has proven to be inadequate...
VVV (my question, too)
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1180624154)
who is lumping drug "users" and rapists/ murderers into the same category? (couldn't resist)I assume we're talking about a violent and forceful crime?
MY answer to the question about death penalty is simple:
It's barbaric - much like the crime itself. Therefore my answer is NO.
Why release someone out of his misery by delivering him to an uncertain future? The death penalty IMHO is heavily based upon the conception that there is (another) judgement after someone dies and the offender then would eternally suffer in hell... But who could verify this?
AND foremost there is the question: how many people are accused and sentenced, but are innocent...
If we allow criminals to drag us to their level, we as much are criminals and no better than them.
Another reason why I oppose the USofA's policies and laws
IMHO the death penalty is dishonourable for a country that claims to be "the greatest democracy on earth".As a sidenote: Castration has proven to be inadequate...
VVV (my question, too)
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1180624154)
the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
Ben, are you working on the idea that ALL pedophiles are child torturers and rapists, or are you at least willing to acknowledge that there are degrees of seriousness of offense ?
Ben, are you working on the idea that ALL pedophiles are child torturers and rapists, or are you at least willing to acknowledge that there are degrees of seriousness of offense ?
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
the drug user comment was because someone had mentioned the pedophiles may in fact want to change. I was providing anecdotal evidence that I believe many can relate to that wanting t change from an addictive or compulsive behavior is often not enough to stop repeating the behavior
Written by: 87wt2gxq7Written by: FireTom
Another reason why I oppose the USofA's policies and laws
No, that's India.
the drug user comment was because someone had mentioned the pedophiles may in fact want to change. I was providing anecdotal evidence that I believe many can relate to that wanting t change from an addictive or compulsive behavior is often not enough to stop repeating the behavior
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
See my vest.... see my vest...
693 posts
Location: Adelaide - South Australia
693 posts
Location: Adelaide - South Australia
Posted:
As a side note, but an interesting punishment.
We had a similar conversation like this at the dinner table one night many years ago (mmm lovely chit-chat hey) anyway. My father brought up an interesting punishment - if you do it once, you get one of your eyes taken out and no option of a glass eye, just skin or something equally as noticeable to the public. If you do it twice you get both your eyes removed. This based on the fact it would be very hard to commit one of these crimes if you were blind.
As a side note, but an interesting punishment.
We had a similar conversation like this at the dinner table one night many years ago (mmm lovely chit-chat hey) anyway. My father brought up an interesting punishment - if you do it once, you get one of your eyes taken out and no option of a glass eye, just skin or something equally as noticeable to the public. If you do it twice you get both your eyes removed. This based on the fact it would be very hard to commit one of these crimes if you were blind.
Love and Light
~*~ Katinca ~*~
BRONZE Member
HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
1,965 posts
Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand
HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
1,965 posts
Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand
Posted:
Ok I haven't read any of the previous posts except the first and I'm just adding my two cents worth.
1 Forget chemical castration just cut it off.
2 Real Jail time without early paroll but less than life
3 Repeat offenders kill'em if you must.
And those are my quick thoughts on the subject.
Ok I haven't read any of the previous posts except the first and I'm just adding my two cents worth.
1 Forget chemical castration just cut it off.
2 Real Jail time without early paroll but less than life
3 Repeat offenders kill'em if you must.
And those are my quick thoughts on the subject.
May my balls of fire set your balls on fire 
SILVER Member
Star Trekker
1,733 posts
Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom
Star Trekker
1,733 posts
Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
Is it me or is that just irritating?
Is it me or is that just irritating?
'The last rays of crimson on the spindle tree as the cerise fruit splits and reveals its orange seeds in a gloriously clashing colour scheme no-one would ever dare to wear'
Euonymous Europeus
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
It is... same me.
Problem is that castration proved not to create the desired effect. It's more a mind thing. Many (sexual) (male) offenders don't necessarily do it in order to get rid of something physically.
That eye removal punishment... interesting thought
It is... same me.
Problem is that castration proved not to create the desired effect. It's more a mind thing. Many (sexual) (male) offenders don't necessarily do it in order to get rid of something physically.
That eye removal punishment... interesting thought
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
SILVER Member
Star Trekker
1,733 posts
Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom
Star Trekker
1,733 posts
Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
Any post menopausal woman would understand that castration won't take away the desire or ability for sex - trust me
But is the eye idea similar to castration in that the 'stimulation' has already been created in the brain so they can still desire and still physically abuse. In other words, it's still punishment but not a cure
Any post menopausal woman would understand that castration won't take away the desire or ability for sex - trust me
But is the eye idea similar to castration in that the 'stimulation' has already been created in the brain so they can still desire and still physically abuse. In other words, it's still punishment but not a cure
'The last rays of crimson on the spindle tree as the cerise fruit splits and reveals its orange seeds in a gloriously clashing colour scheme no-one would ever dare to wear'
Euonymous Europeus
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