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Forums > Social Discussion > Should pedophiles recieve the death penalty?

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted:Ive just read about the proposals to execute pedophiles. I did a search and I did see this but the discussion on that thread is a bit all over the place. So id like to direct it a little bit more and ask people to adhere to the following underlying assumptions that if need discussion should be put in another thread



1. The pedophile has been found guilty from irrefutable evidence (ie found photos of the pedophile performing the act or whatever, such that their is no doubt they are guilty)

2. The prison system does not rehabilitate inmates

3. Chemical castration is not 100% preventative (ie it doesn't address the psychological disorders that cause some pedophiles to want to hurt children)

4. The mental health system is currently overloaded with many patents not receiving the care they need (ie there are lots of cracks for pedophiles to fall through if they where to be put into treatment)

5. Pedophiles are often released early from jail after only serving a few years



So assuming that the above statements 2-5 are unlikely to change and statement 1 is true do you think that pedophiles should continue to be sentenced to short jail terms and then allowed back into the community or should they receive the death penalty for the consequences of their actions or is their another realistic option?

EDITED_BY: ben-ja-men (1180430928)


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:I had the chance to live in a relationship with a victim and I do have an idea about what scars and struggle these are left with and I do have a daughter of five years. Trust me there is no opportunity for me to remain "comfortable" or "idealistic" on the topic.



Katinca was mentioning a "creative" way of punishment on the previous page. Loosing one eye should be a warning, loosing two eyes should make the community a safer place.



But what about my previous questions? Why not going a little deeper and ponder where paedophilia is triggered within our own community? What about child/ teen pornography on the net? What about teen porn in video stores - even if they were just titled as such? What about parents dressing their little ones like hookers? What about the fashion and advertising industry putting out imagery that is likely to turn children into sexual objects? What about suggestive questions that children get asked by psychologists and investigators?



How to tackle that? How to tackle the root causes? Is it a genetic disorder? Is is a mental disorder? Is it a "learned" issue?



What if someone gets wrongfully accused? (Which is the second reason why I generally oppose capital punishment)



Am I raising inadequate questions? Or is it just uncomfortable to think and find answers to them?


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 3044
Posted: Written by: ben-ja-men



because if you cant see both sides of an argument then you cant make an educated decision.





agreed. but just because two people can see both sides of the arguement and come to different conclusions, doesnt mean that one of the cannot see both sides...



ive looked at both sides. i know people who have been abused as kids. but i still disagree with the death penalty. im even hesitant about surgical punishments.



thats not putting the offenders interests before the victims, its just my opinion.



sure we could go through endless arguements of "how would you feel if *insert popular criminal hate figure* did this to your *insert loved friend/relative here*", and our opinions would change. its the same for any debate - be in drugs, genocide, vegetarianism, religion, rolf harris, guns etc etc If that happens to me, my opinion with probably change. but right now - i think otherwise smile

EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1180952386)


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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:Now re-reading all your posts Ben, I can't find any clear and distinct statement whether you are pro or con death penalty (in general and with paedos in particular).... You say that "if you can't see both sides"... - are you looking at both sides?

Personally I can't see both sides and I would never want to, because I neither intend to become a paedo, nor was I raped as a child, nor would I ever wish to have my child raped. So personally I am merely talking out of the box, but I'm not even remotely putting the offenders interest before the victims'.

But in attempt to get a broadened view, would you bother to look into the questions I have raised? wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Dixie
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

Dixie

old hand
Location: Darkest Bedford., United Kingd...

Total posts: 740
Posted:I am relieved to see we have such a down to earth community here! smile

Resorting to the death penalty because our prison service and mental care facilities are defective is wrong.
It is a defeatist approach which would ultimately harm society as a whole.

For the most part; a crime is a crime because it is, in some way, harmful to others.
If we begin widening the use of capital punishment, where next? Child pornographers being killed or blinded for their crimes? Drunk drivers? Computer hackers? Bill posters? "Smoke"rs?

The problem lies with society.
No matter how many we kill, more will be born, grow up, and develop into dangerous child abusers.
I fail to see how capital punishment addresses societal and cultural failings.


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Wild Child
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

Wild Child

Star Trekker
Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1733
Posted: Written by: FireTom


What about parents dressing their little ones like hookers? What about the fashion and advertising industry putting out imagery that is likely to turn children into sexual objects?




Very relevant to this discussion and a hobby horse I climb on on a regular basis! It must be extremely difficult for someone who recognises they have 'unnatural' desires to control them when the object of their desires increasingly appear to be 'asking for it'.

Ben, I share your belief that children have a right to an innocent and LONG childhood , but modern parents and the media are already shortening & corrupting it. Which doesn't, of course, mean child abuse of any kind is excused or acceptable - but may suggest there's an inevitability about it becoming more prevalent and public.


'The last rays of crimson on the spindle tree as the cerise fruit splits and reveals its orange seeds in a gloriously clashing colour scheme no-one would ever dare to wear'
Euonymous Europeus

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gita
SILVER Member since Oct 2003

gita

.:*distracted by shiny things*:.
Location: brizvegas, Australia

Total posts: 3776
Posted:i just thought i'd throw in a random semantic fact here...



in queensland, australia - paedophilia is not a crime...in the sense that there is no charge called 'paedophilia'. you can be charged with a number of other offences for the activities, but none are actually called that.





thanks for bringing this topic up ben! it's been interesting to read opinions of lots of different people from all over the world! smile i'm used to talking about this stuff with other professionals in my field (youth justice) from around my area (south east queensland) so it's been really good hearing some other perspectives! (it may read as slightly sarcastic, but i do mean what i've said!)


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Wild Child
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

Wild Child

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Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1733
Posted:that kind of makes sense if you look at pounce's explanation of paedohpile vs child molester. Seems the media has once again mis-appropriated a word, and clouded an already murky issue even further!

'The last rays of crimson on the spindle tree as the cerise fruit splits and reveals its orange seeds in a gloriously clashing colour scheme no-one would ever dare to wear'
Euonymous Europeus

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:[post deleted for viewing reasons of this page/ thread...]



For informations about differences in "age of consent", please refer to the link provided a few posts further down...

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1180975784)


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:oops.....when I made that comment about what are the pedos going to feast on, I thought I was responding to wording in one of Pounce's posts..on rereading, I find myself in error. To clarify, I was using feast as a simile for indulging in this type of behaviour and speculating, that in the absence of children, pedos would need some kind of surrogate for their "affections"

But just suppose....There's an uncle Chester type child groper/molester who repeatedly offends without casing any physical harm to a child. The child's parents figure something is going on and set a trap for uncle Chester ( hidden video cam, maybe ) and supply the justice system with irrefutable proof of Chester's actions.

Now Chester is found guilty, and sentenced to death...

Death row inmates typically spend years waiting to be executed, and in those years the child may grow up to be adamantly opposed to capital punishment/ In theory, we could have the child victim ( now a teenage victim ) protesting the execution of the very person who victimized them in the first place.

To extend that....suppose the molester has already been executed before the child is mature enough to hold their own opinions on capital punishment...Then what ? Might the child feel responsible for causing someone's death ?

Gita..I've never heard of anyone here being charged with pedophilia....most commonly it's possession of child porn or touching or something more specific than the generalities covered under the term pedophilia.

Yea..little girls dressing up sexy...that really pisses me off....Being male, I have a genetic predisposition to check out ANYTHING wearing a short skirt, heel and halter top and when I do, only to find that outfit being sported by an 10 year old I find myself in the mind if a pedophile for a fraction of a second ( until reality kicks in ) and find myself wanting to hunt down that child's mother ( really, how many fathers are dressing their girls like this???) and give her a slap upside the head for making me look at something in a way I don't want to be looking at that something .


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Wild Child
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

Wild Child

Star Trekker
Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1733
Posted:Yup - you're not alone and you're so right

Tom/anyone - the black area is 'UN Rights Violation'
a) what does that mean?
b) A big chunk of Nostralia?? eek


'The last rays of crimson on the spindle tree as the cerise fruit splits and reveals its orange seeds in a gloriously clashing colour scheme no-one would ever dare to wear'
Euonymous Europeus

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The Tea Fairy
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...

Total posts: 853
Posted:Pounce, thanks for the excellent post and detailed information.

 Written by: pounce



To believe we can "rehabilitate" this type of person is like believing we can rehabilitate homosexuality. These people only find sexual attraction with children.



I was trying to think of a way to put this without anyone taking it the wrong way - for some reason I was worried people might equate it as me saying that homsexuality is 'bad' in some way, or that paedophilia is 'ok' because it occurs naturally in some people as a sort of sexuality.

When I was studying the anthropology of sex and gender, we were talking a lot about the origins of sexuality (i.e. are your sexual preferences genetic, or a cultural/socially learned behaviour, or a bit of both?). Nobody knows for sure, but it's complicated issue - the problem is people think that if sexual preference is culturally/socially learned then there must be an element of choice in the matter, which is not necessarily so. One theory suggests that we are all born sexual, with desire, but the forms and behaviours which our desires manifest as are socially/culturally learned - this whole theory is quite controversial, I'm wondering what the implications are in terms of this discussion. Sorry, slightly offtopic

On the death penalty - like FireTom, I would say no, I don't think it is ever justifiable but that's my own opinion - vengeance and anger are human instinct when we have been hurt by others, but this doesn't automatically mean that this is the right way to deal with the pain, or the offender.


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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:I like the "seeing both sides of the story" idea. I don't think most of us know what it's like to be abused as a child. I don't think most of us know what it's like to have urges that you know are wrong and that will harm innocent children, but you are unable to resist.



So, it would seem that most here are unable to see either side of the story. Shall we leave the decision to child abusers who have been abused themselves, then? I don't think so...


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:Okay, please excuse, but the format of the map I posted is simply annoying. Could you please refer to the link?



Wikipedia map: "Age of consent"



Entire article



Or someone is so kind, downloads and resizes it for us??? *wiggles eyebrows* hug

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1180975958)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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pounce
SILVER Member since Jan 2003

pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...

Total posts: 9831
Posted: Written by: FireTom

What about suggestive questions that children get asked by psychologists and investigators?




WHOA WHOA WHOA, wait a minute here. Now I admit I take personal offense to this being a psychologist and an investigator, but you're making a huge assumption right there. Yes, there have been some crappy investigators out there, but we have come a LONG way over the years. I just completed a 40-hour intensive course taught by all the major professions in the field (detectives, attorneys, social workers, psychologists, etc.) on JUST investigative interviewing and how to ensure you aren't asking suggestive or leading questions. It was taught by one of the leading and internationally recognized organizations on this stuff, and they go around and train all sorts of agencies in every state in America, as well as some agencies internationally. Feel free to check out their website www.apsac.org American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children (APSAC). Don't assume that from the small handful of major media cases in which that was the case that the profession hasn't learned from the mistakes of the idiots ten years ago.

Ok, sorry, I'm done taking offense now wink I only read that post and haven't even gotten to the rest of them after that yet.

*continues reading*


I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:I think Tom wasn't trying to say they ask suggestive questions because they don't KNOW better, pounce... try and convince me that for example in the Michael Jackson case the boy wasn't asked suggestive questions shrug

"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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pounce
SILVER Member since Jan 2003

pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...

Total posts: 9831
Posted: Written by: Dixie


Resorting to the death penalty because our prison service and mental care facilities are defective is wrong.
It is a defeatist approach which would ultimately harm society as a whole.

The problem lies with society.
No matter how many we kill, more will be born, grow up, and develop into dangerous child abusers.
I fail to see how capital punishment addresses societal and cultural failings.



Very well put and an interesting way to look at it.


 Written by: Stout


Death row inmates typically spend years waiting to be executed, and in those years the child may grow up to be adamantly opposed to capital punishment/ In theory, we could have the child victim ( now a teenage victim ) protesting the execution of the very person who victimized them in the first place.

To extend that....suppose the molester has already been executed before the child is mature enough to hold their own opinions on capital punishment...Then what ? Might the child feel responsible for causing someone's death ?




Wow, I think that's a very good way to look at it. I think that point alone makes me heavily lean towards being against the death penalty. As a therapist, I try to help my clients move towards peace within themselves and attempting to integrate their experience into something positive (i.e., I like who I am today, my experiences have created who I am, therefore I accept my experience as something integral in my life). And it would be interesting how putting their offender to death might take that away and potentially affect their emotional growth.


Birgit....But that's my point, it's these high profile media cases that make all the millions of appropriate interviews become questioned as to their veracity. I'm not saying those few cases aren't sad and unfair, but it's frustrating from my side of it that this is always brought up. The amount of false reports and inappropriate interviews is actually extremely small.


I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:Well in the case I had the chance to come real close to, that person did everything but love herself.



She got diagnosed as suffering from borderline syndrom, first by her ex boyfriend. This has been confirmed by institutions, but her ex-boyfriend - and hobby psychologist - is convinced that it was her father, who molested her. She believed him. Later I told her many times to be careful with such allegations (she couldn't definitely remember who it was, etc.) - even though his contact with his children has not been a distinct parent-children behaviour (not unusual for mid 70's) - but as this seemed to feel right to her, she believed it. For a couple of years now there is a deep rupture going through the family and she avoids all contact with him (himself having been a victim to abuse, when he was a child).



In a session with a psychologist, things were to be boiled up and he (in tears) exclaimed to have never touched her inappropriate, in fact the reverse: he eagerly tried to avoid any contact that could have been validated "sexual", and from early childhood on avoided to touch or look at her intimate body parts. Yet he had a very close relationship to her - she being kind of a "buddy", as he had constant struggle with his wife. Today he is broken, many various health issues are affecting his life - she can't get over it (yet) and nobody really/ definitely can come to a conclusion.



Personally I have never been molested sexually by my mother, but my privacy has been invaded (her enjoying seeing me naked in the bathroom and cuddling up naked behind me when I was about twelve). From this respect I do have a very very very slightest idea of the emotional turmoil running through a teenagers head when her/his privacy gets invaded - nothing compared to "real" sexual abuse.



The helplessness and the tension in a child, being deprived by a person against whom natural love and intellectual respect is prevalent, must leave great (emotional) injury itself - not to speak in the case of physical abuse.



When checking the "age of consent" page on Wiki, somebody posted a few names at the top of the page, accused them to be paedophiles in NSW and asked everybody to immediately call the police when they hear these names. This entry is fortunately gone now. I regard this very troubling.



My point being: There is a witch hunt going on and for a parent it must be one of the harshest accusations ever to have molested the own child (if not true). Some people have different boundaries when it comes to the contact with (their) children and teenagers, but the thought of having sex with them might never arise - hence I reckon it is the child's side that counts in this.



I'm far from siding perpetrators and people who indulge on children, but at the same time I would be careful, before charging someone. Child abuse - IMO - is a very very truculent crime. It is close to (charging someone with) murder.



Pounce: I wouldn't dare to question your professionalism, or that of psychologists/ investigators in general. I worded it incorrectly and sloppy. But as psychology has been part of my graduation: Would you not agree that psychologists (after all) are humans, too?



As to suggestive questionnaire, I don't doubt that methods have improved, but I had to come across a very interesting article about false memories, written by Elizabeth F. Loftus, please read it, as it's about "false memories".



I don't have all the answers and certainly am not right on everything, even if my wording seems to indicate that once and so often - please do take into account that English is still my second language - however I just would like to ask a few people here on the board: Please stop to assume the worst of all interpretations whenever I put something out out for discussion. Please.

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1181039565)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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squarefish
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

(...trusty steed of the rodeo midget...)
Location: the state of flux, Ireland

Total posts: 403
Posted:Point to note: castration, chemical or otherwise does not necessarily remove the ability or the desire to achieve penetrative intercourse, link to follow:
not overly explicit, but totally honest: http://www.geocities.com/sherrylanina/CastrationEffects.html

This is the account of a 31 yearold male who has had the procedure perfomed ellectively.

Emasculation on the other hand is the total removal of the generative organs, a truely terrifying punishment.


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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:Pounce, I know what you mean. I think most of us here know that this is true. It's just that, if one in a thousand lawyers do that, and even only once in their lives, you'll have an as you say "extremely small" amount of people condemned to jail. Which is bad enough, given the reputation pedophiles rightly enjoy there, and the treatment that goes with it.



Now I know no legal system's perfect, but this is about death penalty... an extremely small number of people potentially getting killed in connection with suggestive questions is still too much.



Didn't mean to attack you or other people in legal work in general though, since I have no idea of what actually goes on in court, much less even in America. So it's unfortunately only the high profile cases that the general public learns anything about! hug


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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Wild Child
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

Wild Child

Star Trekker
Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1733
Posted:eek - that's mutilation of the harshest kind.

Tom's concern about his nearly-girlfriend's 'recovered memories', ably assisted by a well-meaning amateur, brought to mind another scenario, in some ways more sinister.

I'd known my current beau, Colin, for maybe a month, we'd seen alot of each other, things were going well, then we went to visit his neice, a single mum of four.

Her ex-husband came on the phone, was annoyed Colin was there and asked to speak to him. All I could gather from the 1-sided conversation was that this guy was accusing Colin of abusing his neice when she was young. I had time to wonder and decide that nothing I knew about Colin indicated he was capable of even thinking about it, never mind doing it - his whole mien and raison d'etre is about caring and protecting people, particularly women.

He passed the phone to his neice and after a her ex had spoken awhile she said "You shouldn't have said anything, that was just bedroom talk". !!!!!

As I've got to know Colin's family better over the year or so since that night, I now know that her mother (Colin's half sister) accused his father (not her natural father) of abusing her - and she was kicked out of the house for a while (age 18/19, not a child).

The neice's children have subsequently been taken into care due to her drink and drug mis-use and she show's no sign of even wanting to straighten out herself and her life to get them back.

But the point is this, who's to say that the neice's ex couldn't or wouldn't have convinced her of Colin's guilt? Who's to say Colin wouldn't have been accused AND CONVICTED of abusing his neice? And who's to say he wouldn't have been KILLED for it?

I may be wrong but this is my gut instinct - if the death penalty doesn't provide a deterrant to abusers, no fewer children will be abused but innocent people may be (highly likely to be) put to death. I'd far rather keep all of the guilty ones alive for the sake of one innocent one.


'The last rays of crimson on the spindle tree as the cerise fruit splits and reveals its orange seeds in a gloriously clashing colour scheme no-one would ever dare to wear'
Euonymous Europeus

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mystery_black
SILVER Member since Apr 2007

member
Location: , Australia

Total posts: 44
Posted:I understand that some of the States would want to do that. But i think that crimnal should stay in jail for life instead of getting the easy way out of it.

Because if they get the death sentence they aren't really paying for what they have done.

If they stayed in jail for life then they would be paying for what they have done.

That probably makes no sence lol sorry. It's early in the morning and i'm at work haha


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Meeko_Kiddo
SILVER Member since Sep 2006

Meeko_Kiddo

journeyman
Location: , USA

Total posts: 84
Posted:There are a lot of grey areas with me on this topic...

But first and foremost... if ANYONE ever sexually abused my child... they'd be dead. Either by me, or the law. No questions asked. I don't want to even think that my child would ever be sexually abused but in the case that they are, oh you can bet a very [censored] pissed off Momma would be on your ass.

People who sexually abuse children make me sick... I do feel the death penalty is right. They stripped away a childs innocence forever, why not take their life?


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mystery_black
SILVER Member since Apr 2007

member
Location: , Australia

Total posts: 44
Posted:I guess if i had a child and they were absued i would think about the death sentence but still i find it a quick way out of the punishment.

But wouldn't you rather want the person to be put in jail for life and treated like crap. well however they are treated? I guess i can see it from both sides.


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Meeko_Kiddo
SILVER Member since Sep 2006

Meeko_Kiddo

journeyman
Location: , USA

Total posts: 84
Posted: Written by: mystery_black


I guess if i had a child and they were absued i would think about the death sentence but still i find it a quick way out of the punishment.

But wouldn't you rather want the person to be put in jail for life and treated like crap. well however they are treated? I guess i can see it from both sides.



If my child was sexually abused by someone, and Bubba was allowed to make them their bitch on a daily basis... sure, I'd be all for life in jail...

otherwise... Id still want the fucker dead.


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pounce
SILVER Member since Jan 2003

pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...

Total posts: 9831
Posted:Tom... Elizabeth Loftus's research is not accepted in the majority of the psych world. She's not considered a credible researcher.

Birgit...yes I understand what you're saying, but I'm just arguing the point that we shouldn't automatically criticize the professionals because it can sometimes do just as much harm to interfere with a well-trained professional as it is to believe the findings of an un-trained one. However, I do think those situations are very sad, which is why I take part in helping teach others and participate in as much continuing education I can. And you're right, it's a good case for why we shouldn't use the death penalty in some cases. But let's liken it to murder. Not every murderer is given the death penalty. In crimes as heinous and indisputable as some serial killers, I could support the death penalty. Just as I could potentially support the death penalty for cruel and heinous serial rapists/molestors. (potentially because I still sit on the fence)


I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:Pounce: and that made her receive these awards and honors:

 Written by: Wikipedia

In 2004 Loftus was elected to the National Academy of Sciences. In 2005, she won the Grawemeyer Prize in Psychology (to honor ideas of great significance and impact). Also in 2005 she was elected to the Royal Society of Edinburgh. In 2006, she was elected to the American Philosophical Society.

Loftus has also received five honorary doctorates for her research, the first in 1982 from Miami University (Ohio), the second in 1990 from Leiden University in the Netherlands, and the third in 1994 from the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York - an honorary doctorate of laws. Her 4th honorary doctorate, from the University of Portsmouth in England, was awarded in l998; the 5th, from the University of Haifa is Israel, was awarded in 2005.

She is past president of the Association for Psychological Science, the Western Psychological Association, and the American Psychology-Law Society.

Perhaps one of the most unusual signs of recognition of the impact of Loftuss research came in a study published by the Review of General Psychology. The study identified the 100 most eminent psychologists of the 20th century, and not surprisingly Freud, Skinner, and Piaget are at the top of that list. Loftus was #58, and the top ranked woman on the list.



Thanks for an open discussion.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:Sorry FireTom but I'd take Pounces word over whatever you dug up on wikipedia anyday.. I wouldn't grant much credit for those "honors" Kermit the Frog has an honorary doctorate afterall rolleyes

Just because their theories have led to more discoveries and advancements doesn't meant their work is sound. It's not like Freud was right about everything.


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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:Permanently provoking, permanently twisting the screw... your decision.

Personally I take the word and honours of

- the National Academy of Sciences
- the Royal Society of Edinburgh
- the American Philosophical Society
- the Miami University (Ohio)
- the Leiden University in the Netherlands
- the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York
- the University of Haifa in Israel
- the Association for Psychological Science
- the University of Portsmouth in England
- the Western Psychological Association
- the American Psychology-Law Society
- the Review of General Psychology

as an indicator that the researches of Professor Loftus at least get recognised by some part of the psychologists society and that they are to be taken into consideration... If you have any evidence that counters her findings or the content of said Wiki article (in regards of her honors) feel free to post them here. shrug

Freud was not "right" about everything, because in the meantime a lot more research has been undertaken - but a few of his findings are still basically "considerable" in the society of psychologists. btw: what experience, degree and studies have you achieved in the field of psychology? umm


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:wiki is not a source
freud was not right about everything


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Wild Child
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

Wild Child

Star Trekker
Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1733
Posted:No-one said it was, it's a route to sources.

What Tom says is factually correct, sufficient learned bodies consider some of this persons work to be reputable, even if not irrefutable, such that it shouldn't be rejected out hand because 1 member of the discussion doesn't hold it in high regard. That isn't helpful to the rest of us who lack the inside field knowledge and worse, it insults our intelligence.

Points noted from both sides on Loftus

Continue.....


'The last rays of crimson on the spindle tree as the cerise fruit splits and reveals its orange seeds in a gloriously clashing colour scheme no-one would ever dare to wear'
Euonymous Europeus

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