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Forums > Social Discussion > Scientology, Panorama and the BBC

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Domino
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Member Since: 26th May 2004
Total posts: 757
Posted:Well, a couple of hours ago the BBC aired a Panorama documentary on Scientology and frankly... whoa.

In ways it was a follow up from one they did in the 80s or 90s. Scientology had a bad rap over its use of "Fair Game" ie harassment of those that dare criticise them, and this was a look into whether they still deserved this reputation.

My God.

The answer is a very definite HELL-YES. The reporter, John Sweeney, loses his rag at one point - this was filmed by the Scientologists and dumped all over YouTube and sent to various MPs and people in the BBC to discredit him before the full documentary aired. He was followed/stalked, harassed, intimidated. Not mentioned in film was the fact that PIs even turned up to his wedding.

Yes, John Sweeney is somewhat of an asshat and describes his style as: "there are three rules in journalism. First, find a crocodile. Two, poke it in the eye with a stick. Three, stand back and report what happens next. If it's a sodden log you'll be quite safe. If it's a crocodile you've got a story."

But still...

You can find the film on the Panorama website here. Please watch it, it's an eye opener.


Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:I have read the Old and New Testaments, the Book of Mormon and the Q'uran. They do, of course, have rather disturbing passages in them. NT less so than OT, in my opinion, but that's a moot point.

I have not read the holy scriptures of Hinduism, Bhuddism, Taoism, etc. But I would not be surprised to find similar passages in those. Anyone know?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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robnunchucks
robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk
Member Since: 14th Jul 2004
Total posts: 363
Posted:faithinfire thats all fair enough and i do understand what your saying i guess all im realy trying to say is this



the bible contains passages that tell you to love eachother be good etc.



however it also contains passages saying its ok to murder unbeleavers, rape and subjegate women, commit acts of genocite, and its ok to own and abuse slaves.



infact what ever someone wants to do good or bad you probly find a passage in the bible to support it



my point is a document that pritty much says you it doesn't matter wether your the kindist person most selfless person on earth or the most fanatical ethnic clenser, so long as you beleave in deity X and follow rituals Y you'll be let off.



isn't a very moral way of thinking and hence the bibles pritty immoral



oh and also that if people think the bible is the word of god you can't just ingore large sections of it because what its saying is horific and immoral. you have to ether find a way to deal with that or throw out the whole lot. no prizes for guesseing what i decided to do wink

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:That is why I said it is a progression, it is vengeful and strict seeming God at the beginning and then at the end we have a Hippy of the truest sense. But I would also like to say love is not always saying yes. If our parents did that, we would not grow up to be healthy adults. Love is considering what is best for us.

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Blessed are the Cheesemakers?
confused

Why should the Greek inherit the Earth?
umm

"Romanes eunt domus? People called Romanes they go the house?"
eek

ubbangel


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robnunchucks
robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk
Member Since: 14th Jul 2004
Total posts: 363
Posted:Blessed are the Cheesemakers? confused



well of course its not ment to be taken litteraly it refers to any manufacture of dairy products biggrin



If our parents did that, we would not grow up to be healthy adults. Love is considering what is best for us.



murdering unbeleavers, the abuse and subjgations of women, genocide and slavery are whats best for us! confused this god fellow sounds like a pritty shitty parent i know i wouldn't wanta be raised by him think what utterbastard i would have turned out as.



would have though child services would have had him by now luckly for him hes invisable smile

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:*sigh and wanders away*

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Everybody looking for a different reason to either

mad2 hate the parent or love the parent... ubblove

God's busy, as much as you are at times when ppl need you most...

The Bible - as any other religious script - is a book. It has been written by other men than Mose, or Jesus. It has been written by men. It has been compiled long after these men were dead. What you find there is the interpretation of the original philosophy - according to the time and circumstances the writer was living under.

If you look into Hinduism, it is similar. You find stories about murder, slaughter, betrayal... Shiva is not a kind god... hence he gets worshipped. Krishna had his part too, allegedly the first and highest god, Brahma, was lying.

You find this in almost every religion.

If you get angry about god, it says more about your self, than about "it"... Once you get tired of being angry and start to listen to what is (in) there for you, you get one step further.

All -isms and cults are dealing with the same bait: enlightenment, eternal bliss, material goodies, love, sex, power...

All philosophers IMO initially wanted something different: liberation.

So you can yell and scream and be angry, but who really cares about this - except maybe for your child, who is looking at you, confused... wink ubbidea ???


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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robnunchucks
robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk
Member Since: 14th Jul 2004
Total posts: 363
Posted:lol why would i be angry at yahveh? its like you been angry at thor or zeus?



and what do you meen god is busy? whats he busy doing? also can a been with infinate power actualy be busy?



also yes i would agree most religions seem to contain murder slaughter and betrayal its not a phemnominon unique to christianity.



my beef with religion is the need to see some particular book as litteraly and unquestionably true instead of treating as you would moby dick, king lear or the tails of gilgamesh. if you want to take morals from holy books you can in the same way you can take morals from romeo and juliet but you shouldn't take a single book as absolute unquestionable truth. espehaly given that these holy books have a habit of been written by men looking to concolidate and/or increase there power.



e.g. scientologys dianetics was writen by a mentaly unstable scientfiction writer who and i quote said "the best way to make a million dollars is to start a religion"



e.g. the book of morman writen by a man who had been convcted twice for fraud relateing to trying to sell fake religious artifacts and books to people.



e.g. the old testement was writen (well compiled) by a king in the middle east who wanted to replace the multipul religions in his kingdome with one religion defined by him



all of the gods in these storys are littery charictor same as super man or neo. they are ment to be interpreted not take literaly infact there is as much evidence for super man as there is for any of the gods past or present.



finaly im not yelling im not screaming im not angry and i dont have any kids wink



if anything what i have is concern that people seem to adopt a reasoned and sceptical attitude to the 100,000s of gods past or pressent and can clearly see there just littery creations however when it comes to the religion they were raised in they suddenly all reason and sceptisims are jetisoned into the sun! it worrys me that something can so effectily criple peoples critical reasoning the skill which protects us from been lied to and manipulated by others and is also the only method we have of effectively determining truth.



in short i think religion leaves people open to be manipulated case in point scientology



which brings us nicely back on topic biggrin

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:robnunchucks, that "and what do you mean god is busy? whats he busy doing? also can a been with infinate power actually be busy?" Reminds me of a joke wink



The joke:



So there's this huge flood one day, and an entire town looks like it's going to be swallowed up by the waters. And the Police and Rescue Agencies are running all over the place trying to get people to safety.



So they send the rescue boat over to this house where a guy's sitting on the roof with the water lapping around his ankles and they say "Come on, quickly, there isn't much time"



To which he says "Nah, it's ok, God will Provide"



So about an hour later they're zooming past in the boat again and they notice the guy's still there, only the water's up to his waist, almost at the top of the roof.. "Quick" they say, get in the boat, it's going to get worst before it gets better.



"Nah, don't worry - God will Provide"



An hour after that a rescue helicopter flies over the area and notices the guy, who must be standing on the peak of the roof now, with only his head and shoulders out of the water. "GRAB THE ROPE!" they cry "IT'S YOUR ONLY HOPE!"



"Don't worry" he replies calmly "God will provide."



So he gets drowned of course. And he goes to heaven, and is a little ticked off with god for drowing him like that, and expresses his concern saying "I had FAITH, I BELIEVED in you - and still you didn't help me"



"HELP YOU?!" God replies "What MORE did you want - I sent you two boats and a helicopter!"



ubblolubblolubblol


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:ubblol Yupp and he's not asking us to live in a boat or a helicopter from that particular day on... But we may use it for the time being.

Therefore - in regards of scientology or any other cult/ religion - I'd say: if you feel you must, look into it and take what's yours. If you get swallowed up, don't blame anybody else and don't blame "god"...

wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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tim_marston
addict

Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:NICE JOKE,
i got conned into a scientolgoy office once in brisbane,they were advertising free IQ tests and i wanted to see how clever i was
so i went in,
as soon as i got in side i clocked the scientology books everrywhere but their sleazy sales techniques had me feeling if i left i would be rude so i stayed and let them try and convert me.
i was ushered into a very cool,cinema and watched a film about L.ron hubbard,then i did a personality and an IQ test again using cheap sales techniques to keep me in there they put all their efforts into converting me,
at one point i told the lady i wanted to leave,she ignored me and carried on.i told her she was being very rude and also that she was freaking me out cos her eyes looked dead and brainwashed and she kept staring at me with them,i reckon she had done a course in NLP,lol.
She quickly produced a book which had a nice chapter entitled"WHY SCIENTOLOGLY ISNT BRAINWASAHING"!!!!
At thisa point i realised i had to go cos the chick was mental.as i got up to leave all the previously friendly people in the office turned very cold and i got lots of disrespectful head shakes as i walked out the place..
im an open minded guy and try hard not to judge,but those people treated me with no respect at all,they tried using cheap sleazy sales techniques and bullying to convert me to what certainly appeared to me to be a sordid money making cult..
i went bak to reading my favouritwe holy book
conversatrions with god which i reckon is the most balanced theory of god ive come accrross


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robnunchucks
robnunchucks

enthusiast
Location: manchester uk
Member Since: 14th Jul 2004
Total posts: 363
Posted:LOL thats an awsome joke gona have to remember that one smile



sounds like a pritty common experiance as i understand it scientology seems to work on a system of incremental wackyness introduceing you to the wackyness a tiny steps at at time. each step on its own doesn't seem that insain and once they get you to accept the first few steps they use that as leverage to get you to accept all kinda of rubish that woman been the end result. its the ultimate form of slavery that poor woman has had her money taken and probly been force to dissasociate from friends and family. and in return she gets her soul raped by the ideology of a man whos own son repeately compaired to hittler. The irony been that after a person has been censored over instead of excapeing feeling stupid and used like a normal con they get there very life taken and end up doing the same to others.



there kinda like the borg of the soul





i've never read conversations with god sounds intresting can you give us the jist?



and firetom why do you keep going on about blameing god whos blameing god?

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:it's an old sales tech. slowly get them to accept things and push it a little more each time. If A is logical, then so is B. If B is logical, then so is C. And it keeps going. It's a really effective sales technique

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Rob - maybe I misinterpreted your post, saying:

 Written by: robnunchucks

murdering unbeleavers, the abuse and subjgations of women, genocide and slavery are whats best for us! this god fellow sounds like a pritty shitty parent i know i wouldn't wanta be raised by him think what utter [censored] i would have turned out as.

would have though child services would have had him by now luckly for him hes invisable



To me, religion and cults are like the boats and helicopters... I rather learn how to swim wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:What Fire Tom you cant swim? wink

Id rather learn to fish.

To me the boats and helicopters are just opportunities. In particular, helping your self rather than expecting it to be done for you. Not blaming others.

Sales Techniques! Thats an interesting one. I say it was more about network marketing.

smile


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Yeah I figure that the politeness of sales staff sometimes drops significantly after I make my purchase... umm I'm not amazed about the Scientology staff doing the same.

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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