Forums > Social Discussion > energy solution in america

Login/Join to Participate
Page: 12
sagetree
GOLD Member since May 2006

sagetree

organic creation
Location: earth, Wales (UK)

Total posts: 246
Posted:add a one dollar per gallon tax to all gasoline in america. the entire dollar goes to advancing and developing sustainable and alternative energy sources.

this doesnt work because the 1.00 tax would effect lower income families much more than the rich elite. so to balance that out reduce the payroll tax. FICA (medicare and social security) , from what i've heard, they aren't going to be around when my generation needs them anyway and take more out of your payroll tax than income tax. take the equivalent of the extra tax on fuel out of FICA.

higher taxes on fuel = less people driving, more people carpool, public transport etc.

lower taxes for middle class workers = more people getting jobs, lower unemployment rate.

we will make a fortune for developing alternative energy sources and at the same time we will be fighting terrorism by not funding al quieda indirectly by buying oil off people who are funding them directly (speculation)

just an idea


Delete Topic

Cody
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

Cody

That guy from Reno
Location: Reno, Nevada USA

Total posts: 556
Posted:Good ideas, of course the people would shoot you. smile Getting support from those people who dirve to work everyday and try to make ends meet would be tough. True they would find alternative ways to deal with it, but they wouldn't be happy about it.

Ever play the videogame Civilization? Give it a try it allows you to try these things out and see the rammifications. If you increase taxes, the people get upset. If they are too upset they riot and you loose that town. I't puts things into perspective. smile

(PS if we even had a $.05 per gallon tax the funding would be huge.) smile


Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada

Delete

Gnarly Cranium
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

Gnarly Cranium

member
Location: San Francisco, USA

Total posts: 186
Posted:We have plenty of alternate energy sources and technology to use them.

Trouble is the same people who own the gasoline are the ones who own most of the patents on that same technology. It ain't NEARLY as tough as they like to make it sound.

So, it's a nice idea and all, but try again.


"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13921
Posted:I have a much better idea. Take the money put into building just ONE aircraft carrier funnel it in to nuclear fusion research. The Gerald R. Ford class of aircraft carriers, of which the first is just entering construction, will cost US$8bn each. The first will cost US$13bn. That kind of money could go towards developing a working commercial nuclear fusion reactor.

Think of what nuclear fusion would mean. We would have a clean, safe, source of energy. The radioactive waste (discarded reactor parts) would be minimal and would be radioactive for years, rather than millenia, so it could be stored on site in storage pools until it was safe to discard. Any explosion at a plant would release a miniscule amount of radiation and melt-downs are not possible as the reaction cannot run away.

The energy from fusion power could be used to electrolyze water into hydrogen and oxygen for use in fueling everything from cars to aircraft. In a way, even seemingly non-energy issues such as fresh-water shortages are solely energy problems because with enough energy sea water could simply be desalinated.

And I bet the Navy would love it because a fusion reactor would be a much safer method of powering a ship than a fission reactor. It can't melt down and it doesn't leach radioactive waste into the water for years to come if the ship sinks.

But nobody seems to be very excited about the possibilities.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth, Australia

Total posts: 5814
Posted:My science teacher at school 25 years ago was all excited at fusion nuclaer energy biggrin, but like you say it hasnt gone anywhere yet frown

Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:sage, great idea - let me just fuse threads here and suggest all the USsies go vote for once (and for democratic, or green government), introduce slide scales at gas stations and extra taxes on arms sales (0.05 cents per bullet and 1 dollar per gun)... merge that with what Doc suggests and within a years period you have so much money at hand that would allow the US to implement hydrogen cars and solar power all over the country... wink

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13921
Posted:There is a very real concern. First of all, the OPEC countries would HATE a fusion power program. I can see them bombing the experimental reactor.

Imagine the effect of a gradual stoppage of all oil exportation to the U.S. from the Mid-East. It would wreak complete havoc.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

Gidg
BRONZE Member since Apr 2003

Gidg

Super Gidg!!!!
Location: Portland Oregon USA

Total posts: 8506
Posted:And we can tell the Sagetree doesn't live in the US and probably doesn't rely on a car for transportation to get to work. I would suggest that you live the life before you start making suggestions to change it.

The one thing that gets my dander up, and one of the reasons that I normally stay out of threads like this, is the people that make suggestion and comments about what the US should do without living here. How about hearing about the screwed up politics in the UK and how current officials need to be removed because people, that dont live in that country, disapprove their policies.

I need to go do something that is going to go bring my blood pressure down. And at this point I dont care if I upset anyone or not.


Growing old is mandatory; growing up is NOT.
Proud member of the HoP DPS.
Sanity is a highly overrated state of mind.
I'm normal ... it's everyone else that's crazy.

Gidg

Delete

Gidg
BRONZE Member since Apr 2003

Gidg

Super Gidg!!!!
Location: Portland Oregon USA

Total posts: 8506
Posted:I have an idea.

Let's raise the gas prices in the UK, which will then raise the public transportation prices, which will make it harder for people to be able to afford to get to work, and have THEM work on advancing and developing sustainable and alternative energy sources. Why should US citizens be the only one to foot the bill to solve the energy problem for the whole world?


Growing old is mandatory; growing up is NOT.
Proud member of the HoP DPS.
Sanity is a highly overrated state of mind.
I'm normal ... it's everyone else that's crazy.

Gidg

Delete

TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted: Written by: Gidg


I have an idea.

Let's raise the gas prices in the UK, which will then raise the public transportation prices, which will make it harder for people to be able to afford to get to work



You make it sound as though that hasn't already happened wink

Oh, and I don't think Sagetree's as english as his profile and intro thread suggest.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

Delete

animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:What is the current price of fuel in the US?

Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

Delete

Mr_Joe
BRONZE Member since Aug 2008

Mr_Joe

Part-time genius
Location: , Netherlands

Total posts: 59
Posted:We pay about USD5.50 per gallon over here, just to put things in perspective...

Delete

Gidg
BRONZE Member since Apr 2003

Gidg

Super Gidg!!!!
Location: Portland Oregon USA

Total posts: 8506
Posted:Safetree's profile claims UK and I was just picking on you guys as an example. It could be any country and not just the UK. I'm calmer now and I feel the need to apologize to all my English friends.



Sorry for flying off the handle guys.



I know that gas prices has increased everywhere, it's something that I've been keeping track of for over a year now, UK, France, Germany, Switzerland, Malawi, Australia, New Zealand and Brazil. The increases that Ive seen are staggering and Im surprised that some of us can actually afford to keep driving. They really have us stuck, its not like that we can say Im not going to support those money mongrels any more and stop purchasing their products. Taking public transportation supports the use of fuel, even if the train is run on electricity, because that money goes into one big pool that the bus system pulls from. And in my case it takes longer to reach work by public transport than it does by my private vehicle.



The price of gas here in the US? Ive see a 20 cent rise in the last week, cheap gas is $3.36 per gallon and they expect to reach $4.00 or more over the summer and this is just May, summer doesnt start until next month.



Joe, you must not be in London then. My calculations say that they are around $6.36USD per USgallon. The conversion being 1 US liquid gallon is 0.833 UK liquid gallon and $1USD is $.501755GBP.

EDITED_BY: Gidg (1178463947)


Growing old is mandatory; growing up is NOT.
Proud member of the HoP DPS.
Sanity is a highly overrated state of mind.
I'm normal ... it's everyone else that's crazy.

Gidg

Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13921
Posted:One thing that is going to have to change in the U.S. is that we're going to have to change how we design our cities. As the price of fuel goes up it will become more and more of a luxury to live in a suburban home with a large yard around it and it will become much more economical to live closer to work and to other resources (stores, entertainment, etc.). I predict that we will see a revival of the inner city if this keeps up. Hopefully that will also bring about a flurry of public transportation building.

Americans live spread out all over the place. We also spend entirely too much time and energy getting from A to B. That culture is going to have to change if it's to be sustainable.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

Gidg
BRONZE Member since Apr 2003

Gidg

Super Gidg!!!!
Location: Portland Oregon USA

Total posts: 8506
Posted:So right Doc, but is our culture truly ready to make that kind of change? At this point I don't think so. You're talking about the change of the American Dream, that's going to take some time.

All I need to do is get all my family, friends and social life to move to the side of town that my work is or to get my work to move to the side of town that my family, friends and social life are.


Growing old is mandatory; growing up is NOT.
Proud member of the HoP DPS.
Sanity is a highly overrated state of mind.
I'm normal ... it's everyone else that's crazy.

Gidg

Delete

Gnarly Cranium
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

Gnarly Cranium

member
Location: San Francisco, USA

Total posts: 186
Posted: Written by: Gidg


Why should US citizens be the only one to foot the bill to solve the energy problem for the whole world?

Nobody said anything about the US being the ONLY one.

And I dunno, but maybe it all kinda sorta has something to do with that whole.... GAJILLION TIMES MORE WASTEFUL THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY ON THE PLANET thing....?
 Written by: Gidg


You're talking about the change of the American Dream, that's going to take some time.


No such thing to begin with. They've been selling us on a lie for years-- hell, centuries.


"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

Delete

Gnarly Cranium
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

Gnarly Cranium

member
Location: San Francisco, USA

Total posts: 186
Posted:And the thing I don't get about nuclear power-- fission, fusion, whatever... why bother?? WHY bother?!

THE MOST GINORMOUS NUCLEAR FURNACE WE COULD EVER WANT is RIGHT FREEKING THERE. *points* RIGHT THERE. It powers EVERYTHING on the face of this planet already, delivering 5 MILLION H-BOMBS worth of energy every single darn day. It never turns off. All the nuclear power you could EVER want. Right there. It doesn't GET any better. Just stuff a stupid collector into space already and have DONE with it. Nothing wildly theoretical, nothing dangerous, no song and dance-- put that money into developing a delivery system, a space elevator, whatever. 5 billion could do it.

But no, THAT would make SENSE. ubbloco


"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

Delete

Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:any one interested in the peak oil vs shocking suburban planning issue should watch the (somewhat dated but still quite relevant) movie - The End of Suburbia.

Quite depressing really when you put it into perspective with the crap building methods and materials people are using on 'suburban' houses these days.

Interestingly Australia has the same kind of problem - we''ve got urban spread almost on the scale of the US...

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:4 dollars a GALLON??? wow you guys... spank

In Germany we pay up to 1,50 Euro (1 Euro = 1,30 $) for a litre (3.785 l to a gallon)... *scratches head* make the math yourself... shrug

Gidq - umm ubblol It's certainly "our" fault that even after the oil crisis of 1973
and 1979 "nobody" (important) in the US was getting the signal.

Have you ever heard of mass transportation? I'm certain that - along with car pools and other meansof transport would greatly help to solve the problem... Oh and finally: Hybrid cars

Whereas rising fuel prices forced Europeans to consider cars like this one:
[image]http://www.fahrtipps.de/img/534/smart-parken.jpg">

"some[/image]

get the ubbidea ??? wink wink wink hug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

Gidg
BRONZE Member since Apr 2003

Gidg

Super Gidg!!!!
Location: Portland Oregon USA

Total posts: 8506
Posted:You guys just aren't getting it are you?

It's not that I'm arguing the point that we need to do something about the fuel situation, especially here in the US, because we do. I'm not laying fault at anyones door because it is something that we all need to face and do something about. Not only at each of our particular national levels but also at personal levels. We can not change history, we can only hope to learn from those HUGE mistakes and go forward.

My tirade is that people are so ready to talk about what the US should do or not do. Do we see any discussions here about how screwed up other countries policies and politics are? Not very often, we see the US. Are you saying that we are the only country with screwed up policies and politics? Are you saying that I need to pay for the mistakes made in the past because I happen to live in the country that is considered one of the worst offenders?

Again my gripe isnt the topic but someone that isnt living my life making a suggestion that is going to hit my bottom line and will not affect them at all, its hard enough to make ends meet as it is. In this case why shouldnt the suggestion be that EVERY country has an extra dollar tax go directly to advancing and developing sustainable and alternative energy sources? Why is it only the US? Do you think that we are made out of money or something? God, if that was true I wouldnt be in the financial situation that Im in now.

By my calculations Germany is paying somewhere around $6.10USD per US gallon. You are right Tom, a lot higher than what we are paying. We, people, will always gripe about rising prices that we have to pay, no matter what the goods or services are. Its hard to meet those rising prices when you dont get a cost of living increase.


Growing old is mandatory; growing up is NOT.
Proud member of the HoP DPS.
Sanity is a highly overrated state of mind.
I'm normal ... it's everyone else that's crazy.

Gidg

Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13921
Posted: Written by: Gnarly Cranium


Just stuff a stupid collector into space already and have DONE with it. Nothing wildly theoretical, nothing dangerous, no song and dance-- put that money into developing a delivery system, a space elevator, whatever. 5 billion could do it.



Oh yeah. Easy as that. Just...

1) develop a delivery system to put the several hundred thousand tons of material, equipment, and personnel into space to construct the thing.

2) Develop the technology to run the thing

3) Aim a microwave beam at earth and hope it a) doesn't miss and b) doesn't get hijacked by terrorists who turn it into a death ray

4) Turn that into electricity...

Developing a fusion reactor would be more feasable and simpler.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:reducing our consumption of electricity, while increasing our expenditure on sustainable energy production would be simpler still smile

--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

Delete

LazyAngel
GOLD Member since Jul 2004

LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK

Total posts: 2895
Posted:go go gadget bicycle! biggrin wink

Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:go go gadget sunscreen and paddle boat ubblol wink

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:(btw SUV sales are down, people ARE buying more fuel efficient cars according to CU)

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

Delete

jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted: Written by: Gnarly Cranium

All the nuclear power you could EVER want. Right there. It doesn't GET any better. Just stuff a stupid collector into space already and have DONE with it. Nothing wildly theoretical, nothing dangerous, no song and dance-- put that money into developing a delivery system, a space elevator, whatever. 5 billion could do it.

But no, THAT would make SENSE. ubbloco


To a certain definition of "sense" wink


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

Delete

sagetree
GOLD Member since May 2006

sagetree

organic creation
Location: earth, Wales (UK)

Total posts: 246
Posted: Written by: Gidg


And we can tell the Sagetree doesn't live in the US and probably doesn't rely on a car for transportation to get to work. I would suggest that you live the life before you start making suggestions to change it.

The one thing that gets my dander up, and one of the reasons that I normally stay out of threads like this, is the people that make suggestion and comments about what the US should do without living here. How about hearing about the screwed up politics in the UK and how current officials need to be removed because people, that dont live in that country, disapprove their policies.

I need to go do something that is going to go bring my blood pressure down. And at this point I dont care if I upset anyone or not.



i'm sure you've got your dander under control now but just in case i'll let you know that i was born and have lived in the US for 24 out of my 26 years.


Delete

Gidg
BRONZE Member since Apr 2003

Gidg

Super Gidg!!!!
Location: Portland Oregon USA

Total posts: 8506
Posted:ubblol My dander is under control now ... infact I'll be going back to my non-posting policy when it comes to these threads.

Danders leads to tempers, tempers lead to high blood pressure and there isn't anything on this earth that is worth my health. Have a good day Sagetree! hug


Growing old is mandatory; growing up is NOT.
Proud member of the HoP DPS.
Sanity is a highly overrated state of mind.
I'm normal ... it's everyone else that's crazy.

Gidg

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:ubblol ubblol ubblol those two years missing are the ones that were important... wink reminds me of that "Korean boy" rolleyes hug

Fact of the matter is that nobody is entitled to criticise the US, but the USsians themselves, as it seems umm

I wonder: why are you guys taking all that so personal? hug you're the exception to the rule, aren't you? hug

But more facts: According to German Federal Agency for Exports in

......car sales......SUV (in 1.000 units)

- 1999....8.750......8.208
- 2000....9.005......8.397
- 2001....8.655......8.522
- 2002....8.317......8.531
- 2003....7.810......8.866
- 2004....7.738......9.175
- 2005....7.964......9.033
- 2006....8.130......8.430

So you are basically right, faith: SUV sales are down (if you compare year by year/ whereas car sales in total have been down by 2%) - but if you then look at it in the long range (99 vs. 06) you will notice, that car sales are down and SUV's are up. But that's a) only statistics and b) yearly trends c) offtopic.

Now I do side the US (politics) in saying the Kyoto protocol is a joke. At least if looking at the fact that countries can legally "trade" their (low) carbon emissions. To me that's just censored

But looking at the opportunities the US (as a country) does have and what they are actually (politically) doing, they (again) do not remotely live up to what they claim to be: The greatest nation on earth. (Apart from being the greatest hypocrite and western polluter).

Nothing is all perfect in Europe, but most of the prices for fuel goes to taxes (in Germany 65 Eurocent/ litre, including ECOTAX )

You know it's simply foolish to get caught up in short term topics as "have to drive to work every day" and use that as an excuse... According to a workshop, organised by world leading insurer Mnchner Rck and the Centre for Science and Technology Policy Research (University of Colorado/CIRES), with the Institute for Coastal Research as a co-sponsor (clickety clack), man made disasters will result in higher losses to the economy than stepping up measures NOW.

We - as individuals - will have to bite the bullet (sooner or later). But the reason for that lies within our economical (capitalist) system.

Those, "who got enlightened" do neither believe in re-incarnation, nor the pearly gates where they get charged for their deeds. The only thing that matters is NOW (and short term profit), AFTER they f***ed up the planet, they will sell us the "rescue"/ solution to the problem and if facing complaints they will say that we have been living in the information age and everything was known (or available), so again: it's only ourselves to blame.

So IF there is anyone who you should complain to, take the CEO's and lobbyists, plus politicians who knowingly surrender YOU and the health of YOUR children to feed the machine. Having said this, I do not believe that much is going to change with new elections in the US. It's the same disaster continuing, with just a different paint job. shrug

NONE of this is meant personal, but IF you identify that much with "your" country, do something about it... STOP killing the messengers! wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:so we aren't supposed to work?

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

Delete

Mr_Joe
BRONZE Member since Aug 2008

Mr_Joe

Part-time genius
Location: , Netherlands

Total posts: 59
Posted:I think this is what Tom was talking about when he mentioned taking it personally...



Many people 'need' to drive to work (here and in the US) because commuting has become such a way of life that industrial and commercial centres draw people in from a much wider area than they occupy themselves, thus creating the need to commute for employment for those outside the immediate vicinity. This is a cultural problem, and it's ingrained, it's not the fault of any one individual, nor is it easy to rectify, but yes, it's still a problem.



So, yes we all have to work, we all need to. However, there needs to be a shift in how we do so for the sake of our environment.

EDITED_BY: Joe_47 (1178648629)


Delete

Page: 12

Similar Topics

Using the keywords [energy solution america] we found the following similar topics.
1. Forums > energy solution in america [36 replies]
2. Forums > America Needs Fire [19 replies]
3. Forums > Energy calculations (and peak oil) doomsday discussion thread [38 replies]
4. Forums > Dress America (Please Read!) [31 replies]
5. Forums > Traveling South and Central America this Spring and Summer [1 reply]

     Show more..