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UnclassifiedLeggyGirl
BRONZE Member since Aug 2006

UnclassifiedLeggyGirl

One day penguins will take over the world
Location: Derby

Total posts: 916
Posted:As everybody knows, there has been a lot of speculation about "size zero" and "size double zero". Some catwalk shows have banned models with a BMI below 17 (i think, its about there) and there was a programme on last night that showed two healthy size 12 women that did whatever they could think of to shrink to a size zero in 4 to 6 weeks.

They say that this behaviour encourages people of my age (15) and younger (a recent survey showed that girls as young as 9 are crash dieting to look thinner) to lose weight, and i think they're right. Using myself as an example: i'm in the mind that if i was thinner then people would like me more and that i'd be happier. Although i wouldn't mind being thinner, i am a believer in healthy living so i'd never diet dangerously. However, many young people (and older people aswell) are doing this.

So basically, i want your opinion on this topic in general, and opinions on things such as what you think the government, and the general public can do to make this better.


ummmm...........anybody have any suggestions as to what i can put here?!

mjk is monitoring your interwebs!

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spacey
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

spacey

mischeivious pixie
Location: Sydney

Total posts: 291
Posted:i really disagree with women dieting themselves to death to become a size zero, you are who you are and should be happy with that. if all these fashion houses used a variety of different shaped models to reflect the fact that everyone was different then we wouldnt be having the problems we have today. it is up to the media to stop splashing these super skinny girls all over the pages of their publications and act a bit more responsibly as they know that young girls will be comparing themselves to what they see...if the media refused to print the images of these girls then the fashion houses would be forced to use bigger models other wise they would loose all the free publicity they get.

i have never dieted to become skinner...on the conterary, i am always trying to put weight on (lucky you i can here alot of you thinking) but if i dont eat the right foods for a couple of days the weight just drops off and like simian i can fit into childrens clothes. however, i have seen lots of my friends go on silly diets just to fit into 'that dress' or because they feel thats what men find attactive, but if you ask a lot of men you would probably find they would prefer to cuddle up to someone with a bit of meat on their bones rather than a boney stick insect.


"I dont want no fatty bumbum, i want a lean mean shagging machine" anon

"I'm sweet and wholesome with a little bit of filth thrown in"

What would you do if you knew you could not fail?

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Posted:Ok so i'm currently dating a size 0 woman, and i will state that i find weight-loss based size 0's disgusting. Laura (my gf) is a natural size 0 she's 5'2 however, i keep encouraging her to eat, because i dont want her to lose any of the weight she has. She looks great at a 0 with curves that i love, but she still thinks shes fat, its silly, one of us loving her body yet trying to feed it and the other thinking its ugly and trying to diet- its this that i think that has been as a result of media influence, its getting to a case were EVERYONE has to diet in order to attain beauty.

I know it was a page ago, but Birgit (sp?) realistically your survey was going to be affected by media imaging, seeing as they are exposed to several thousand marketing images a day, your showing them such movies will not make a dent in that.


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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:Furbs, why does your girlfriend think she's fat? hug

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Posted:dunno, its not like she thinks shes 'fat' in the traditional sense, more the 'i have too many wobbly bits' sense

i keep encouraging her to do some form of excercise as well (i keep trying to convince her to do poi but no luck yet)

but she's kinda getting the message, shes starting to eat more regularly


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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:wobbly bits are the best bits!

biggrin


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Posted:totally, shes looks just delicious. yum.

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:furbs, spelling's right, but it was Kathain_Bowen's study.

Simian, as to why people care at all... partly it's because they want to be attractive, partly because they may be worried about friends dieting themselves to an unhealthy state because they feel they should.

Personally I go with the "find out what's important to yourself and stick with it" approach. If you want to look like a model, by all means try and get there. If you feel it's worth risking your health, then in my opinion that is sad and regrettable, but it's your own body. Not much different to smoking really. If you want to spend your time playing with fire and eating choccie instead, fine.

Same goes for what we find attractive in partners. Myself, I end up with skinny guys more often than not, and am generally heavier than my boyfriends (and no way that I would fit into most of their jeans). That's not a preference though, I've dated "average" or "overweight" people, too.

But attraction is not entirely controllable, and for most of us, certain physical features, whether conscious or not, play a big role. And most people know about physical features they find unattractive in others. So if someone wouldn't go out with me because they think I'm too fat, fine. That means there's not enough attraction otherwise to compensate for that, and I wouldn't want to be with someone who doesn't find me attractive.

The real question is (I've asked that before in a similar thread, and I DON'T think media is the correct response): Why do people feel the need to look like a certain "idea(l)"? What determines if someone has the confidence to be themselves, or feels they need to change themselves to please others? Why do people spend lots and lots of money to buy magazines that tell them what to do with their lives and then buy everything that magazine says they need?

I think confidence is the actual issue that needs to be worked on, way before the effects of lacking the confidence show. And telling children, from nursery age, that they should do what THEY want (as long as it's legal and not hurting anyone of course), and be happy with themselves.


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:Bravo Miss Birgit!! clap

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Posted:Unfortunatly its conforming to society, we're a herd species, and as such we mimic the rest to ensure we stay as part of the herd. However its often taken further by those mimicing it unless the original stops them from going to far. Media being pretty much faceless, and one way communication doesnt have this ability to respond and prevent the extremes, thats why we're seeing this, media is the communcation path but social conformity is the problem.

<ot> i've posted a picture in my gallery of the gf if anyones wanting to check and see that she's healthy (not that i love showing her off at every chance) </ot>


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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Mmmmm smile She's lovely wink

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Posted: Written by: UnbearablyColdOrFreezing


Mmmmm smile She's lovely wink



yup all she needs now is to become a poi spinner and shes perfect lol.


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UnclassifiedLeggyGirl
BRONZE Member since Aug 2006

UnclassifiedLeggyGirl

One day penguins will take over the world
Location: Derby

Total posts: 916
Posted: Written by:

I think confidence is the actual issue that needs to be worked on, way before the effects of lacking the confidence show





I also agree that confidence is a big issue about it, and that if women had more confidence in the way that they naturally look then they wouldn't try extreme diets (possibly) but isn't it the point that all of the media attention is what is causing the LACK of confidence in the first place? How are people ever meant to feel comfortable the way they are if the magazines and newspapers are praising skinny models and celebrities for looking good, and commenting on how people that are overweight look horrendous??



It makes me wonder if there will ever be some form of a solution to this problem. What i find strange is that magazines are showing us that "super skinny" models are very unhealthy, yet they still publish the pictures and they still publish articles such as "Jordan: How i lost 10lbs in 2 weeks" in the same issue! What a contradiction! Do they want us to be repelled by the stick thin people, or be like them? Because they are giving out extremely mixed signals. And because of that, many people choose the latter because it seems more appealing than carrying a little extra weight or whatever.


ummmm...........anybody have any suggestions as to what i can put here?!

mjk is monitoring your interwebs!

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:ULG: D'uh... when did that kind of magazine ever do anything but try and sell (itself and adverts)? The mags don't WANT you to do anything but buy them.

See, one problem I have is that people have a go at how Godawful the media is, while at the same time EXPECTING magazines that deal with celebrities' private lives, new hairstyles and bling to give them reasonable advice! That's just majorly fxcked up.

My point is that you should be confident, intelligent, reasonable, etc (choose your word of choice) enough to understand that mags are entertainment, and nothing more. If you MAKE them more, then that's by your own choice.

You don't even need to be 100% comfortable with how you look, everybody has things that can be improved, even supermodels get enhanced. But if you can bring up enough reason to say "well, so I'm not perfect, but I'm certainly good enough", or "this really needs improving, but once I've reached my goal I'm NOT looking for the next thing I'm insecure about", that's a big step.

I personally don't think media causes the lack of confidence. If you seriously compare yourself to people whose job it is to be pretty, you have a problem that lies deeper. It would be like feeling stupid because you're not as intelligent as Stephen Hawking, or feeling weak because you're not a pro weightlifter, or calling yourself illiterate because you're not one of those people who have published 5 books by age 20.

I don't doubt that media can enforce feelings of inferiority. But I think it's more of a spiral. You (the general you, noone in particular) try and improve yourself. You look to the media (because, very likely, all the REAL people you hang out with are about as attractive as you, give or take a bit). You buy a new top, bleach your hair, get a push-up bra and a hideous handbag. Of course, all these items are modelled by more attractive (in YOUR opinion) people, and don't necessarily look as much in place on someone with more normal measures and features. So that'll make you feel even worse. So you look for new improvements etc.

At some point though it's up to everyone to REALISE that and DO something about it. In my experience, a huge part of being attractive is confidence. And you don't get confidence from trying to look like someone else.

I'm a size 18 sciency nerd who generally doesn't buy expensive clothes, has never possessed trendy handbags or jewellery, has a 3rd-hand-ancient-mobile with no fancy features whatsoever, wears no or minimum make up except for when feeling like it, and whose hair won't stay in a reasonable cut/style unless convinced to by 2 hours worth of efforts and products which quite frankly I can't be bothered with. But: I can live with that. I have a life, friends, things to do, and can't be bothered to waste time and money on assimilation of looks. And I have lots of people telling me I'm attractive, because, most likely, some of them can see that I'm happy.

In contrast, I get the giggles when I walk behind 5 fake blonde clones who are reasonably skinny but think they have to wear too tight hip jeans, with samey arse tattoes above the string that looks out, what would be really pretty hips hanging over the jeans, samey tops, etc... again, fair enough, anyone who wants to look like that or fancies girls who do, good for you, it's just not for me.

And given that so many people seem to be unhappy with "what the media suggests a person should look like" - WHY WHY WHY do they do it?!?


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:ok
first, lay off the skinny people...
i've looked unnaturally skinny for all but 1yr of my adult life...i've been naturally skinny for most of it and other than the last year (where I didn't take care of myself) I've been wrongly accused of being anorexic or using drugs (which for all but a year has not applied). We are judged just as much as the heavy people
second, just cause we are skinny now does not mean that we always were. I was up to 160 with my 5'3" frame. It took 2 hrs everyday and being very tight with my diet in order to get down to 120. Why did I diet? Why wasn't I happy with my weight? Because it wasn't healthy. Because my family gains a lot of weight as they get older, and it causes healthy problems.
Right now, I fit into a 3 with room to spare at 105lbs. Now I cannot gain weight to save my life and actually have to be concious of what I eat now to make sure I don't lose any.
What's worse is that I am skinny but have chest. So people think that I am anorexic with implants.
I think that it is good though that countries are making sure that the models have a healthy BMI. When I watch America's Next Top Model some of those girls are too skinny. Jaslene is so skinny you can easily count ribs and vertabrae while she is standing straight. But the twins last cycle ate regularily and healthy and were still skinny like me.
I guess what I am trying to say is that, you have to be careful who you judge...


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Bek66


Bek66

Future Mrs Pogo
Location: The wrong place

Total posts: 4728
Posted:I was a size 0 for years...but it was not by choice.

I've always been small...at my heaviest in high school at 115 pounds and was a US size 3-5. I'm not quite 5'1", btw.

I was always very prone to getting strep, and had a severe case just before I went off to college...I lost 25 pounds and was never able to gain it all back. I managed to get back up to fluctuate between 98 and 103 pounds, which is where I stayed except for while I was pregnant with my kids...and then had no problem with the weight just dropping right back off, again...but that, of course has to do with metabolism.

In 1998 I was diagnosed with uterine cancer and had to have a hysterectomy...and during the depression of that time period I dropped back down to around 88 pounds.

In 2001, I finally got rid of my husband, who was not helping with things, at all...(that's another story, entirely)...but I then was able to get back up to where I had been before...and generally stayed at around 95-98 pounds.

I quit smoking just over a year ago and have since then been able to get the closest to my healthy weight that I've been since high school. I'm holding steady at about 112. And I feel wonderful...

Since gaining a bit of weight, I have a much easier time finding clothes that fit, I feel better, and I couldn't tell you how many people have told me that I look 'so much better than I used to!!!' They say that I looked sick before!!!

Well, geez, folks...thanks for telling me!!!

I couldn't really see it before, except I'd always be horrified when I saw pictures of myself...then I could see how very thin I did look...

There are very few pictures of me from those years, cuz I just didn't like what I saw when they came back...but I never have starved myself and have amazed people before that 'yes, I really do eat'!!!

Anyhow, to get to the point...I think that I am one of the very few women that you will ever hear admit that they are happy to have gained weight. I'm not a size 0 anymore and I am thrilled...

...and I did myself the favour of quitting smoking, too.



I'd not go back to either the smoking or the size 0 for anything in this world...



I consider all women to be goddesses, regardless of size...

As long as you're healthy and happy, shouldn't matter in the least!!!





As an aside...Faith, I got the line, 'Oh, I hate you, you're so skinny!', so many times that I wanted to scream...

...and 'Don't you eat?'

Nooooo...I'm an alien that doesn't have to!!! rolleyes

EDITED_BY: fyrespirit (1177427905)


"Absence is to love what wind is to fire...it extinguishes the small, enkindles the great."
--Comte Debussy-Rebutin

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BurningHalo
SILVER Member since Mar 2007

member
Location: Dumfries,South West Scotland

Total posts: 46
Posted:im 5'4" (i think thats how you write it)i was at the doctors recently and had just a check up, nothing important.
and i was told i was 9and a half stone. my first thought was "oh my god im really over weight!" i always aimed to be about 8 stoneish. then the doctor did that BMI thing and told me i was perfect, just right. i couldn't believe it .

Before i got pregnant with my daughter whos now 8 months i didnt eat breakfast or lunch much only dinner and definately no pudding redface frown.Once i was pregnant i had to force myself to eat eek so she got enough nutrients. so now thanks to my daughter im perfect. biggrin


"It is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all" Anon

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kash
GOLD Member since May 2006

kash

Dangerous cynic


Total posts: 166
Posted: Written by: simian


confused

So you're saying the correct way to deal with the issue is to continue making bitchy comments when people are too skinny?

All that does is highlight the underlying jealousy and hypocrisy that fuels the vehemence of the size zero debate.



Seeing as you quoted me (out of context), let me put something straight. I'm not making bitchy comments about skinny people. In fact I thought I made it very clear that there is nothing wrong or unattractive about naturally slim people. The issue is not against any individual, but against a culture that considers an unhealthy look to be desirable, and encourages people to harm themselves in the pursuit of this ideal.

I think most posters here have been fairly clear about the same.

I have a friend who is naturally very slim, and I know that she has had to deal with comments from random people in the street (I mean really, how dare they?) and even a shop keeper who accused her of oppressing other women through her slimness. So don't be surprised that I am more than a little offended at your accusation.


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FatGuru
SILVER Member since Apr 2007

FatGuru

newbie
Location: Findlay, Ohio

Total posts: 40
Posted:I think the artist Sir Mix Alot said it best... "I like big butts and i cannot lie" and "My anaconda don't want none unless you got buns hun!" biggrin But seriously be who you are not what socioty wants you to be!

"It is far better to know you think than it is to think you know." -FAT-

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polarity
SILVER Member since May 2005

polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet

Total posts: 1228
Posted:Guess he doesn't like low fat crackers.

You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:*groan*

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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The Tea Fairy
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...

Total posts: 853
Posted:Oh, just for general information thought this Body Mass Index calculator would be handy for some...

http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/magazine/interactive/bmi/index.aspx

It does imperial and metric, so no need to convert! smile

If your BMI is between 18.5 and 24.9 you're an ideal weight for your height, health-wise. It's a big range, showing how both skinny people and round people can be healthy.


Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

Bob Dylan

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_Stix_


_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land

Total posts: 2419
Posted:my BMI is 18.64 - just at the lower end of the scale - which is good as my BMI used to be about 16..

thanks for the link Tea Fairy smile


I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

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UnclassifiedLeggyGirl
BRONZE Member since Aug 2006

UnclassifiedLeggyGirl

One day penguins will take over the world
Location: Derby

Total posts: 916
Posted:lol FatGuru and polarity! guess you guys are right then!

 Written by: faithinfire

first, lay off the skinny people...



i dont really think the point of this topic was to lay into skinny people, it was more of a debate about what others think of size zero in general and about people that have an unhealthy BMI. since you stated that you're quite petite then your BMI should be normal, so we werent really laying into you, or any other skinny person with a healthy BMI to be honest.

 Written by: fyrespirit

I quit smoking just over a year ago and have since then been able to get the closest to my healthy weight that I've been since high school. I'm holding steady at about 112. And I feel wonderful...



i think its great that you're a healthier weight now, and that you're happier about it! i love seeing women that dont obsess when they gain a pound or two!

 Written by: birgit

In contrast, I get the giggles when I walk behind 5 fake blonde clones who are reasonably skinny but think they have to wear too tight hip jeans, with samey arse tattoes above the string that looks out, what would be really pretty hips hanging over the jeans, samey tops, etc... again, fair enough, anyone who wants to look like that or fancies girls who do, good for you, it's just not for me.



ditto! i cant help but laugh at them! i don't see why they wear clothes that are smaller than they need to be. i mean, fitted, yes, but they just take it to the extreme! lol and the whole "g string pulled up over your shoulders" look, 3 words: PUT IT AWAY! lol


ummmm...........anybody have any suggestions as to what i can put here?!

mjk is monitoring your interwebs!

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth

Total posts: 5814
Posted:size 0 and 00 is a baby size here.

000 is newborn.

0000 is premmie sizing


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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UnclassifiedLeggyGirl
BRONZE Member since Aug 2006

UnclassifiedLeggyGirl

One day penguins will take over the world
Location: Derby

Total posts: 916
Posted:oooh thanks for that link biggrin my BMI is 22.18, so on the upper end of the scale umm thats still good right?

ummmm...........anybody have any suggestions as to what i can put here?!

mjk is monitoring your interwebs!

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted: Written by: The Tea Fairy


Oh, just for general information thought this Body Mass Index calculator would be handy for some...

http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/magazine/interactive/bmi/index.aspx



18.47

Officially 0.07 above underweight. redface


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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rainbowgirl


rainbowgirl

member
Location: London/Southend-on-sea

Total posts: 70
Posted:I hate to be the bearer of bad news but BMI is not necessarily a great indicator of being a healthy weight as it does not take into account that muscle weighs more per cubic inch (or centimentre) than muscle, on television a couple of months ago they had professional althetes (olympians i believe) who were tested for fitness and body fat analysis and shown to be in tip top condition but BMI still classified them as overweight or obese!! It also applies to that small majority who genuinely do have heavy bones!

PS, please dont think im just ranting because i have a BMI of 35, i found this out at the doctors and they did other checks (as mentioned above) and im actually just at the very top end of healthy.

The simple fact is no measure will ever be perfect, they are all based upon a normative sample so will only be accurate for those people in the normal range (this should be 50 - 70 % of the population) everyone outside of that will get skewed results, instead of listen to and relying on something arbitary - be it a formula or media influence - you should listen to your body. If you feel too large to do those things you should be doing as a person - be that spinning fire, playing sport or just walking up stairs - then you need to lose weight and / or get fitter, if you feel to weak and frail to be doing those things you want to be doing you need to gain some weight and some muscle tone. Admittedly if a thing you want to be doing is being the thinnest of fattest person in existence then you wont ever do anything about your ever increasing / decreasing size, but i would think this was a symptom of a deeper ill involving wanting to do yourself harm.


You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars

"To alcohol, the cause of - and solution to - all of lifes problems!"

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kash
GOLD Member since May 2006

kash

Dangerous cynic


Total posts: 166
Posted:I would second that. When I was starting uni I had the obligatory health checks with the student medical service.
I had spent my gap year working with racehorses, hard physical work and no time to eat, I was really strong (could carry 20kg feed bags, one under each arm, with ease) and muscular. I was a small size 10 (UK, that's s 4 US I think), and had prominant ribs (including the "red carpet decolletage", visible sternum and ribs in my chest) The nurse weighed and measured (5'2") me, then advised me to lose a stone (!) to get to a healthy BMI. I was like "where from, is amputation an option?"

So yeah, BMI is an *indicator*, but doesn't take into account build or body composition. If your BMI is ok, you're probably healthy, but if it is too high or low, you should see a Dr and get your weight assessed properly before considering changing your routine to "correct" it.


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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:I know this is about size 0 but:

Lesbians are fatter than heterosexuals

Very short, but interesting. And interesting with a point I don't agree with.  Written by: the Age

Lesbians are twice as likely as heterosexual women to be overweight or obese, US researchers have found, and this may be because they have a better body image.



I am sorry but obese is NOT good body image. Yes, being underweight is bad and not a very good body image, but being obese is definitely NOT good body image either!!!

I think that a lot of anti-size 0 can get too caught up in "pro weight" which is not a good message either.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Firetramp


Firetramp

old hand
Location: Binstead, Isle of Wight

Total posts: 896
Posted:Well, when I get up in the morning, I'm underweight but later in the day I'm fine biggrin. Guess I'm just on the edge but I'm healthy and feel fine.

Ask a question and be a fool for a minute...don't ask and be a fool your whole life.

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