Forums > Social Discussion > Social Discussion...open debate or single-sided monologue?

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pounce
pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...
Member Since: 10th Jan 2003
Total posts: 9831
Posted:I rarely come into Social Discussion for several reasons. One, I deal with enough emotional and political crap at work that I try to avoid it when I'm not at work. But the second reason, and the one I've begun to notice more and more, is that I feel like these discussions turn into a single-sided monologue or a "clique" conversation (for lack of a better word) between two or three people. At first I thought maybe I was just imagining things, but I can count numerous times I have read through every single person's replies and responded with my own views, hoping to get genuine responses and a genuine discussion, only to find my thoughts are looked over and ignored every time. When I post under Social Discussion, I do so because I like to hear other people's opinions and talk with them about it, and I like to hear their thoughts on my opinions. It's how I learn, how I open my mind to other thoughts. But I can think of once, maybe twice, that someone has actually responded to me. Instead, the typical response is the handful of people who regularly post talking amongst themselves or posting their own monologue and not discussing with anyone. I even remember one such debate during which myself and one or two others actually commented in the thread during this debate on how we were getting ignored. And guess what? It still wasn't noticed!

I'm curious as to if other people feel the same way or if this is only my perception. I just find it difficult and a deterrent to posting in Social Discussion when I never actually get the discussion part of it.


I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:Um, I just want to say that I do know what you mean as I have experienced it myself hug

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:We all have...it's the nature of the medium.

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KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted:People only see what they want to see, generally.

hug I still read your posts pounce!

I do not always totally agree with what other people post, but I do try to reflect and understand, and see what we have in common.


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:this is quite true pounce.

however i dont feel its a reason not to post in social discussion because if people do see something that they personally have an opinion on they will respond to the poster. i agree it doesnt seem to happen too much, and i think you've just showed me what i've been thinking is lacking from the discussion board that was much more prevelant back in say 2005.

very good observation.


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Benn there, experienced it myself - I did and do read your posts, pounce.

If there is an emotionally heated debate, sometimes some ppl get carried away (including myself)... That's the nature of a debate.

I begin to wonder what you're doing for a living with the informations provided...

But be assured that ppl carry their intellectual gun unconcealed in this forum wink ubblol I do honor ppls opinions up to a certain stage where I guess it gets ridiculous - from my personal perspective (and do well acknowledge/ accept that ppl do the same vice versa)...

I know it's sometimes frustrating, gaining the impression to be talking against the storm, being treated with neglect - or at least not getting any visible recognition.

Hence you have done what you can (as everybody else is doing it): Voiced your opinion and made it public - be assured that you're getting noticed, even if ppl have nothing (useful) to respond. There is a silent mass, who is not actively participating.

SD can be very (emotionally) straining, but it's a valuable lesson - IMHO

hug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Sparklygreenfire
Sparklygreenfire

*Green Spirit*
Location: Southampton, England
Member Since: 11th Aug 2004
Total posts: 201
Posted:I can't comment so much on HOP as I've not really been posting on here for long, but yeah...certainly on other forums I've experienced that. But I too think that, certainly in emotionalal heated disscussions....peeps do get carried away. I don't think ppl aim to ignore others!
smile


Are you a robot...or an alien?

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:it's not that the post is not read. it may be that you have made your post well and other posters have nothing to discuss
you're not ignored smile who could ignore you? hug


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:It happens to the best and worst of us. Me on more than a few occasions. Depends on if you feel your opinion really NEEDS validation from others. If you've made your point do you really need someone to go say 'I agree'. Because if someone agrees with you, there's nothing more for them to respond to you with And rather than waste bandwidth posting something consisting of nothing but 'I agree', people are more likely to dedicate their debating with someone whom they strongly disagree with.

You have to remember this is more of a messageboard than a bona fide conversation. Even if you feel ignored in the short term, your opinion will remain there for others to read from now till whenever this site (or thread) closes down.

Don't take it too personally...

hug


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:Oh..I see where this came from.....

Thing is....discussion isn't so much about the individual as it is about the thread as a whole.

Pounce...when I read over those 10 posts that appeared between your first post, and the one where you complained about being ignored, I see lots of interaction and acknowledgement between posters. Yes..there's some "I'm going to post this just for the heck of it" posts. that's to be expected....Have a thought...post it.

So why have I not posted on that thread yet ? because you said part of what I was going to say. Now i suppose I could have posted something like "good post pounce" or sent it in a pm...but I didn't. Do we ( as Neon Shaolin says above ) really want to clog up these threads with I agree type posts ?

Maybe you're confusing discussion with intro threads, where the focus is YOU... and maybe you're longing for the "old days" when HoP was significantly smaller and everybody read every thread. But did you acknowledge anybody who'd posted on that thread before you...or just post a monologue ?


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Gnarly Cranium
Gnarly Cranium

member
Location: San Francisco
Member Since: 16th Feb 2005
Total posts: 186
Posted:I'd have to agree to an extent, I've noticed it too. I've been posting here for a couple years now and a lot of the time it seems like when I speak up threads tend to actually DIE. I'm very interested in what a lot of the people around here have to say, but they have friends they're interested in talking to and a lot of other people get kinda glossed over.

"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:ubblol Gnarly I tend to observe that with my own threads - I'm the last to post in them... ubblol



Re: Taking it (too) personal...



I want to finally point out that IF I am opposing someone, I am only objecting that particular opinion - NOT the person itself... I might have a strong argument, but might actually appreciate the person outside that argument... (up to a certain extent)



Some views are principles, others are not as rocksolid.



It just depends smile hug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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squarefish
(...trusty steed of the rodeo midget...)
Location: the state of flux
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2002
Total posts: 403
Posted:Pounce,
the comunity here has gotten huge over the last few years as Stout and Mr Majestik have said.
The sheer number of people who read each thread means that the chances of someone deciding to throw their hat into the ring must be massively increased.

How many times do you see people having to go back and edit posts cos somone else beat them to the "submit" button before them? ok, maybe not an awful lot, but it does happen.

Look at this thread; 11 replies before mine in about 5 hours.
The first 5 replies were within 26 minutes of each other!

It seems to be moving more towards a situation like a meeting room where no-one is waiting to be recognised before speaking out, unfortunatly, without a huge change in moderator policies I don't see how this could change.

But...I don't want it to change...it's what attracted me to HOP in the first place. Free speech has its downsides as well, you can be shouted at or worse yet ignored

Whoops, I may be monologuing here ;-) plus, like Gnarly and Fire Tom, I have a tendency to kill threads, sorry.
M.


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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:ubblol it does happen an awful lot with striking topics wink

Welcome to the killer club hug

"Talking stick"?? wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:i haven't killed as many threads but i am guilty to
can i join the club?
or can there be a troll or posters anonymous club?
bouncebouncebouncebounce


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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pounce
pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...
Member Since: 10th Jan 2003
Total posts: 9831
Posted:it's not so much that i feel personally slighted, and yes another thread prompted me to post this one, but it's an ongoing issue that i've noticed. yes i know not everyone (and maybe not anyone) will say "oh wow pounce, brilliant thought, i agree!" that's not what i'm looking for. the point i was trying to make is that it seems sometimes that two or three people get so caught up in arguing their point to one another because they disagree or are angry at the opinion someone posted that anybody else (not just me) who tries to point out a different point of view to enhance the conversation gets completely ignored. yeah, i got pouty and snide in the other thread, but it was to prove a point.

social discussion is supposed to be just that: discussion. i think a lot of times people get caught up in their emotions about a particular topic that they get tunnel vision and stop realizing there are other people trying to have an intellectual discussion. i'm sure i've had my moments too, i'm not placing blame on anyone. the point of this thread was to perhaps open eyes that sometimes we need to take a deep breath and take a step back and realize people are trying to communicate with us. when we forget about that fact, we tend to ignore and alienate the people who are genuinely trying to discuss.


I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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BansheeCat
veteran
Location: lost
Member Since: 29th Jul 2005
Total posts: 1247
Posted:I understand your frustration, but I think it is simply not possible or productive to try to get people to discuss a point they are not interested in. If they are, they will engage. If not, well, it drops from sight, and one may have to find another forum for their idea-- one where people do respond favourably to the initiation of discussion.

"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:pounce - I think you are asking a question about how people make a decision whether or not to respond to a particular post?

I respond to arguments that I think have some merit if I have time. I think there are people who post in SD who I very rarely respond to because what they post is pure rubbish and its not worth my time to point out the continuous stream of inadequate arguments they make.

I responded to your post in the guns thread tho, or is it that I didnt respond to the bit that you really wanted a response for?

Often I would like to respond to a lot of different posts, but I just dont have time to do that anymore - I think Malcolm would have to employ me full time for me to engage with every argument that occurs on this board.


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted: Written by: pounce


i think a lot of times people get caught up in their emotions about a particular topic that they get tunnel vision and stop realizing there are other people trying to have an intellectual discussion.



well that describes humans as a species quite well smile emotional, sentimental, biased etc etc etc. people will also find it easier to be more blunt, and sometime rude to someone they've never met on the other side of the planet.

My rule is that whenever i get pissed off at something that someone has said on the net, that its time to turn my computer off and go outside and play in the sun ubbrollsmile


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Well I feel really blessed to have received these compliments (as much as I have received the opposite).

I find most of the discussions (very) inspiring as they help me to observe topics from (very) different angles. Even if I completely disagree with what has been said and even if my emotions boil up, it helps me to understand where a certain attitude comes from.

Understanding is the key for a (more) peaceful interaction.

Excuse me, if I came across as "emotionally blinded", maybe once in a while in one or the other threads (I guess your post was a clear veiled shot at me - and be assured it's one that I can take, because I know myself hug ).

Thanks for making me aware. I can't promise that it'll never happen again (depends on the issue), but I will try to make the effort. I experienced it from that "other side", too. ubblol

Dentrassi, that is a good tactics - as long as you can walk...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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DarkFyre
DarkFyre

HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Location: Palmerston North
Member Since: 4th Nov 2005
Total posts: 1965
Posted:good point pounce but if you are just adding your two cents worth and leaving it at that then it is worth a read but not nececaraly a responce however if you are activly participating then your comments ar worth responding to.

I'm not the bigest SD fan but it has it's place here on HoP and i must admit that when i do browse this forum (and I read all of the posts) i don't realy respond to those that agree with my POV or add little to the discusion but i have a hearty argument with those that I dissagree with.

Maybe this should be the Argument forum rather than Social Discusion biggrin


May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil

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Gnor
Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth
Member Since: 31st Mar 2003
Total posts: 5814
Posted:It reflects any human discussion where ppl only listen to who and what they want.
There are some people that I wouldnt bother putting a response to on here no matter how passionately I feel as I know it will be either ignored or sledged. Same as IRL. Shrug.
I no longer invest as much emotionally so dont get uptight about it as much as I did.


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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biggins
biggins

member
Location: In Bed
Member Since: 6th Sep 2002
Total posts: 165
Posted:i come into the SD area out of morbid curiosity. kind of like when you wobble a loose tooth and it hurts or repeatedly pick a scab off. you know you shouldnt but.....pleasure,pain,pleasure, pain

my problem also is that i tend to go offtopic and get on my high horse, when i do the topics are related and relevant (in my mind) but are not specifically about the title. so i keep quiet unless i really need to vent spleen.

its not to say that your posts aren't read. its always interesting to get other ppls views and you can learn alot. but i just try not to post.


Wielding a Wooden Spoon

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by: pounce


.................I feel like these discussions turn into a single-sided monologue or a "clique" conversation (for lack of a better word) between two or three people.





Hopefully, having had so many replies to the thread you've started, you'll be feeling less ignored smile

(Actually, from experience, I would say that for anyone who feels they're not making much progress in some of the discussion threads, a good tactice is to start your own- as long as it's not a topic that would be more suitable in 'chat' and that you put some effort into the wording, you'll generally get some discussion going).

You're right that some threads here turn into discussion between two or three people- I'd say though that it's not due to cliquism- just that it's the natural end of a hotly debated topic- most POVs get covered, people drop out purely cos they feel that everythings been said- naturally just 2 or three people are left.

Finally, i'd say that taking part in some of these threads involves a lot of time- it's simply not possible to get involved with everyones POV- the discussions often get pretty tight necessitating dealing with a few very specific issues.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted: Written by: onewheeldave


Finally, i'd say that taking part in some of these threads involves a lot of time- it's simply not possible to get involved with everyones POV- the discussions often get pretty tight necessitating dealing with a few very specific issues.



isnt that the truth! it took me over an hour to catch up and make a post on the Virginia shootings thread.


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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pounce
pounce

All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all a...
Member Since: 10th Jan 2003
Total posts: 9831
Posted: Written by: onewheeldave


You're right that some threads here turn into discussion between two or three people- I'd say though that it's not due to cliquism- just that it's the natural end of a hotly debated topic- most POVs get covered, people drop out purely cos they feel that everythings been said- naturally just 2 or three people are left.





ahhh, i think that is very well put and helps shed a different light.

i want to make a point once again though for everyone. i posted this thread not because i am feeling ignored or am upset or i'm getting uptight or i want attention. i used my experience as an example only to depict a situation i have observed more than one or two times, and not just with myself. clearly by the replies it wasn't just a me thing, other people have experienced it too. i posted this thread because i thought it might help more people be aware of how they converse in SD and open it up for discussion as to why some threads tend to turn towards that type of conversation. (sorry, i just don't want people thinking i'm some whiny git who wants attention because that was NOT what this was about AT ALL ubbloco )


I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

**giggles**

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Lurch
Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon
Member Since: 1st Nov 2003
Total posts: 929
Posted:Oh quit your whining wink

I actually agree. It's very easy for a thread to just turn into a bunch of people saying the exact same thing and agreeing with each other, sometimes it's hard to inject another viewpoint in there. If you're not being heard just yell louder! ubbloco


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