Written by: Lurch
......but yet again no one wants to answer the question as to why STABLE law abiding citizens should be prohibited from having them if they choose to?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: Lurch
Does my shotgun change from a hunting/sport gun to a murdering baby killing boom stick simply because it's got a black stock on it?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
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How else could you restrict their aesthetic appeal? Or rather than aesthetic (the actual physical appearance of the gun itself), do you mean make the whole gun culture less appealing?
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Real men don't need guns
Guns are for wimps
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by:
Lurch, you've overlooked many major points while focusing in on minor details and calling people fools for not being able to positively id a rifle from memory etc etc...shall I point out that no-one in this thread has labeled a pro-gunner an idiot or a fool, however it might be appropriate when people use 'evidence' based on fantasy (cho could have hijacked a plane or used Anthrax) and cant even seem to follow an argument based on logic and evidence or even a bit of historical support.
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Pineapple Pete's table is telling - why is it that the US has approx 10 times the gun deaths of Oz (0.027 per 1000 vs 0.0029), and 30 times the gun deaths of UK per capita?
What is so different about the US that the evidence thats been presented over and over based on experiences in the rest of the world is invalid?
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I reckon no-one should have access to a Tek-9 (yeah I looked up Wikipedia on the columbine massacre) apart from perhaps SWAT or military - but I guess being able to get guns like that is what your forefathers were thinking of when they wrote that 'freedom' into the constitution?
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What purpose do handguns have apart from killling or potentially killing people? sport? fine. leave em at the firing range then - thats what we do in Australia - its a hell of a lot more secure than people taking em home and leaving them in the car when they pick up the groceries...
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But now we are getting to it. The bit i've kind of been trying to work towards for a while. As someone said earlier (i think), guns are a symptom, so what is the illness? What are the root causes that drive these people to become armed and violent? What has driven them to be in this position and hence drive others to feel the need have guns in order to defend themselves. Is it films, music the media? Is it poverty, desperation what is it? Why? Please explain. And if things are so bad and people are so desperate that they need to have guns why is nothing being done about their situation.
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maybe i'm reading these wrong but to me all these quotes seem to be saying that in order for a populace to be empowered they have to be armed. This i do not agree with. Empowerment of a peoples can come from many other places and historically great change has been brought about in many different countries through strong leadership and a willingness to change.
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I’m saying guns are a symptom of a larger problem. Try reading the above link to article called "A look inside America's gun culture." I’ve posted it twice. For sure, there is a bit of Rambo America behind all this violence. Have a read about the American Gun Culture, and you will see where I’m coming from. Anyhow, the quotes are by Professor Gasper, an eminent professor of sociology at Johns Hopkins University.
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* They share a belief that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution enumerates an individual right. Generally they see people as trustworthy and believe that others should not be prevented from having guns unless they have proven otherwise.
* They share a belief that guns provide some level of protection against criminality and tyranny. This ranges from a feeling that it's good to have a gun around the house for self-protection, to an active distrust of government and a belief that widespread gun ownership is protection against tyranny.
* They are generally responsible with respect to firearms handling. They have an awareness (or internalization) of either Jeff Cooper's Four Rules [1] or the NRA's Three Rules [2], providing for some level of safe handling of guns and try to abide by them when handling firearms.
* They are shooting enthusiasts. Few members of the gun culture do not practice shooting on a regular basis.
* Gun rights associated with hunting and other outdoor sportsmen activities are widely supported in principle, although these activities are not always practiced by all within the gun culture.
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The challenge and opportunity is to stop living in the past. Create a new future, a future without guns and associated violence. After all, it’s 2007 not Virginia 1607, and the role of guns in society has change. Do you really need a gun?
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However, to answer your question, you don’t need a gun. It’s a myth, this "I need to gun to protect my family" because the reality is that the guns for protection are frequently used against family members. Ask the cops.
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no one is questioning the right of a stable law abiding citizen from having a gun if they want to that is your right as an american citizen. i think a few are questioning the reasons behind wanting/needing to own a gun.
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As someone who seems to be focusing on the practical uses of guns, would you agree that measures which leave alone practical guns aspects, whilst restricting their aesthetic appeal as much as possible, are a good idea?
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I think it's already being done to an extent in the US- certain types of stock and grips are now illegal and it often seems to be the stuff that makes a, otherwise standard/practical looking, gun look more like a military weapon.
Recently looking on a US gun forum I noticed a thread alerting that more such measures were being planned and encouraging members to complain to their govt representatives.
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Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Written by: Lurch
Woo stats that are seven years old, those are helpful. No one is saying that the US can't be violent. Just as any country is. But correlation does not imply causation. Just because guns were involved with the crime does not mean that they were needed, nor their presence caused the crime to happen. We've all endorsed better education. We all know crime is a problem, that is not the question being asked here. We have all agreed on the same things, unstable people should not have access to firearms, but yet again no one wants to answer the question as to why STABLE law abiding citizens should be prohibited from having them if they choose to?
:admires giant wooden aeroplane: Its about time trees were good for something, instead of just standing their like jerks!!!
Homer rocks!!!!
I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
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--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"
*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*
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I dont see it as being such a huge difference (but then again I dont think there is a significant difference between butterfly and weave either - the illusion of which held back my spinning til I got over it
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"
*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*
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I never said the Tek-9 was available in WalMart! just questioned whether its a gun that any civilian really should be able to purchase *at all*. I would only differentiate between it and other semi-auto pistols (none of which I believe really need to be owned by civilians in any circumstance), because it can carry 50 rounds in a clip (from Wiki). That's absurd!
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The difference between semi and full is with a full auto you can just hold your finger on the trigger and it repeats, with semi you have to pull the trigger each time to fire - right?
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on the topic (i think) you rose in reguards to hollywood glamorising guncrime and the likes, hollywood is not isolated within america. the US, UK and Australia all screen (predominantly) the same box office and large scale movies, of which for the most part have, by and large, had a large part to do with hollywood. i therefore fail to see how a movie, say, Bad Boys II, could (significantly) influence gun crime in one country, but fail to do so in two others. do tell me if im somehow wrong though
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Woot Lurrch. I’m sure the gun community “is full of very nice, law-abiding citizens, who love their hobby, and treat it with the utmost respect.” I just wish more people respected guns like you and your friends.
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Sure I’m worried about killing a bad guy. Taking the law into your own hands make a person a vigilante, which is just another example of "frontier justice".
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I’d agree poverty level probably is the single biggest indicator for crime. Which to me, indicate something in America’s laissez-faire system is not working. In the short term, I’d say it was another good reason to get guns out of the community.
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As far as the Second Amendment goes, I’d say I don’t think the people who introduced the Second Amendment ever envisaged it being used to support "An America gun culture." The problem I have with the second amendment is that it was designed for a much different time than now. It also seems to put the rights of an individual, over the right of the community. In popular culture, I’d say it encourages rogues like Rambo.
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So Lurch if you are never put in a situation where you need a gun, why would you need one?
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When I said it’s a myth, this "I need to gun to protect my family" because the reality is that the guns for protection are frequently used against family members. I was referring to domestic violence. The reason I said “ask the cops” was because they’re on the front line, and would have first hand knowledge of the misuse of guns in domestic situations.
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GitasGuy make an important point; it’s the sheer proliferation of guns in America that makes it easier for people to do harm to one another. And that is all we are saying.
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faithinfire, perhaps outlawing gun in not the solution. What I don’t understand about American Christians is why they would be so pro-guns. I grew up a Roman Catholic, and the Jesus I learnt about at school was kind and loving; a pacifist not a killer.
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Who doesn't get this? Who has the audacity to demand unarmed helplessness? Who likes dead good guys?
I'll tell you who. People who tramp on the Second Amendment, that's who. People who refuse to accept the self-evident truth that free people have the God-given right to keep and bear arms, to defend themselves and their loved ones. People who are so desperate in their drive to control others, so mindless in their denial that they pretend access to gas causes arson, Ryder trucks and fertilizer cause terrorism, water causes drowning, forks and spoons cause obesity, dialing 911 will somehow save your life, and that their greedy clamoring to "feel good" is more important than admitting that armed citizens are much better equipped to stop evil than unarmed, helpless ones.
Pray for the families of victims everywhere, America. Study the methodology of evil. It has a profile, a system, a preferred environment where victims cannot fight back. Embrace the facts, demand upgrade and be certain that your children's school has a better plan than Virginia Tech or Columbine. Eliminate the insanity of gun-free zones, which will never, ever be gun-free zones. They will only be good guy gun-free zones, and that is a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial. I, for one, refuse to genuflect there.
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Wielding a Wooden Spoon
-James
"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"
"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"
*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Written by: Stone
As it seems obvious the some of us value guns more than friends.
Written by: Stone
I’m sure what George Washington said was relevant at the time of the American War of Independence, or when slave uprisings were a threat. But, we live in different time. A time when guns like slavery should be put in the past.
I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: Lurch
Guns *are* a protective device.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant
Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.
'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi
Written by: LazyAngel
Personally, I don't think automatic weapons should be available outside of the military. To ANYBODY.
Written by: LazyAngel
Also, I would be interested to know how much of the feeling for the need for a gun for protection is based upon the assumption that if someone attacks you, they will be using a gun as well. To put it crudely, its a little bit like a game or rock, paper, scissors, except a gun trumps pretty much everything.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed