Forums > Social Discussion > Virginia Tech Shootings
Login/Join to ParticipateAnonymousPLATINUM Member
Posted:
Tragic Loss of Life
This [censored] really saddens me. My thoughts go out to the victims, survivors and all their families.
Tragic Loss of Life
This [censored] really saddens me. My thoughts go out to the victims, survivors and all their families.
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
I read that this morning. So horrible. Why do people do that?!
But you know what? The Aussies are still in the lead for mass killings
/bad taste.
I read that this morning. So horrible. Why do people do that?!
But you know what? The Aussies are still in the lead for mass killings
/bad taste.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
SILVER Member
Member
29 posts
Location: Scotland (UK)
Member
29 posts
Location: Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Yeah, i know, unfortunately we all know that they will try to pin the blame on some band or video game rather than addressing the real issues.
Also notice how there is all the shock when it happens in middle America yet, for the most part they don't bat an eyelid when it happens elsewhere
However my condolences to the victims. I just wish taht the American government would actually learn from these incidents, and prevent it happening again.
Yeah, i know, unfortunately we all know that they will try to pin the blame on some band or video game rather than addressing the real issues.
Also notice how there is all the shock when it happens in middle America yet, for the most part they don't bat an eyelid when it happens elsewhere
However my condolences to the victims. I just wish taht the American government would actually learn from these incidents, and prevent it happening again.
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
How may of these need to happen before they change some laws!? PLEASE PEOPLE!!!!
How may of these need to happen before they change some laws!? PLEASE PEOPLE!!!!
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
GOLD Member
member
165 posts
Location: Australia
member
165 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
Can you clarrify the 'real issue' and laws? Are you talking about gun laws in US... bullying?
again
xo
Can you clarrify the 'real issue' and laws? Are you talking about gun laws in US... bullying?
againxo
... simplify ...
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
You will never get rid of bullying. But you CAN change gun laws.
Australia changed their gun laws after the Port Arthur Massacre and I honestly want to know how many school massacres it will take for the US to do the same.
how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died? ...
how many times can a man turn his head,
Pretending he just doesnt see?
EDITED_BY: Rouge Dragon (1176777496)
You will never get rid of bullying. But you CAN change gun laws.
Australia changed their gun laws after the Port Arthur Massacre and I honestly want to know how many school massacres it will take for the US to do the same.
how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died? ...
how many times can a man turn his head,
Pretending he just doesnt see?
EDITED_BY: Rouge Dragon (1176777496)
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
So what are the real issues?
So what are the real issues?
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
does anyone else find that horribly scary!!!!
Written by: the guy the internet accused of this
"I am a firm believer that if Virginia Tech students were allowed to conceal carry, this situation could have ended sooner."
does anyone else find that horribly scary!!!!
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
GOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Posted:
There's now evidence coming to light of police and faculty mishandling.
The shootings occurred 2 hours apart, the first, targeted an RA in a dormitory, then the other in the engineering building. The doors were apparently chained shut by the gunman beforehand, and he then proceeded, with only a handgun and a lot of ammunition, to kill many, many students
Police were on the scene at the dorms already by the time of the second shootings, but some eyewitness camera footage shows policemen wandering around the perimeter of the building as you could hear gunshots inside.
Also, no warning was given to the students on campus about the shooting at the dorms. And perhaps if they were this tragedy could have been averted.
Also, lame gun laws.
*shrugs
The whole situation is on the whole, sad.
There's now evidence coming to light of police and faculty mishandling.
The shootings occurred 2 hours apart, the first, targeted an RA in a dormitory, then the other in the engineering building. The doors were apparently chained shut by the gunman beforehand, and he then proceeded, with only a handgun and a lot of ammunition, to kill many, many students
Police were on the scene at the dorms already by the time of the second shootings, but some eyewitness camera footage shows policemen wandering around the perimeter of the building as you could hear gunshots inside.
Also, no warning was given to the students on campus about the shooting at the dorms. And perhaps if they were this tragedy could have been averted.
Also, lame gun laws.
*shrugs
The whole situation is on the whole, sad.
To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
YES, LET's JUST ALL CARRY FIREARMS ALL THE TIME - MAKES THE WORLD A SAFER PLACE! *pukes*
I'm sickened by the US gun laws, I am sickened by the way the US government and public are dealing with the problems of "gun abuse"! I have said it a thousand times and will repeat it over again: YOU ARE HAVING A SERIOUS ATTITUDE PROBLEM! (and by this I mean the general situation - not individuals)
Ah, yes and: I violently dislike the bigoted way in which a president has to pop up on TV every now and then, claiming to be struck by grief and still has NO intention of seriously tackling the problem.
"The great country of the free, the greatest democracy on earth, the global cop of freedom and human rights..." it just disgusts me, that innocent students are targetted by mental cases. Go clean in front of your own doorstep before slapping your attitude into other nations faces! [/rant] 
YES, LET's JUST ALL CARRY FIREARMS ALL THE TIME - MAKES THE WORLD A SAFER PLACE! *pukes*
I'm sickened by the US gun laws, I am sickened by the way the US government and public are dealing with the problems of "gun abuse"! I have said it a thousand times and will repeat it over again: YOU ARE HAVING A SERIOUS ATTITUDE PROBLEM! (and by this I mean the general situation - not individuals)
Ah, yes and: I violently dislike the bigoted way in which a
president has to pop up on TV every now and then, claiming to be struck by grief and still has NO intention of seriously tackling the problem. "The great country of the free, the greatest democracy on earth, the global cop of freedom and human rights..." it just disgusts me, that innocent students are targetted by mental cases. Go clean in front of your own doorstep before slapping your
attitude into other nations faces! [/rant] the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
GOLD Member
member
165 posts
Location: Australia
member
165 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
Rants justified Tom.
Reminds me of a piccy i saw in the gallery a while back... two arms morphing into guns pointing at each other from opposite sides of the page?
US gun laws - who's the winner? whats the benifit?
Rants justified Tom.
Reminds me of a piccy i saw in the gallery a while back... two arms morphing into guns pointing at each other from opposite sides of the page?
US gun laws - who's the winner? whats the benifit?
... simplify ...
GOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Posted:
Obviously I can't simplify the issue down to much, but I'll give you my thoughts.
The rich, wealthy, and affluent NRA association would never allow the outlaw of guns in the US. For them, the 2nd amendment is a right - an almost holy one bestowed upon us by our forefathers.
They do however, forget that guns back in our forefather's time were inaccurate, fire-once-per-minute affairs, and that the difference in technology between armies and farmer weapons were not much different, so bearing arms did defend oneself from enemies and were used to hunt food.
In this day and age, automatic weapons of mass death and pinpoint accuracy are the norm - we don't need guns for food anymore and these guns don't protect us from our enemies (terrorists and ourselves). We use guns for sport, for play.
In the innercities of this great nation, guns are used to kill people everyday. It's only mass murder that makes the news, much like kidnappings. You only hear of the kidnapping of rich, white, suburban daughters - do you know the statistics on minorities disappearing in cities? Why do only some cases make national news?
That's a whole separate issue, but mainly, I'm wondering when we shall see that freedom of bearing arms outweighs the benefits. I'm hoping that it won't take much more of these school shootings to change the opinion of the public.
Times have changed - Today, one nutjob with a gun can kill dozens. In the old days you could have tackled him in between shots.
Our laws should change to reflect that.
Obviously I can't simplify the issue down to much, but I'll give you my thoughts.
The rich, wealthy, and affluent NRA association would never allow the outlaw of guns in the US. For them, the 2nd amendment is a right - an almost holy one bestowed upon us by our forefathers.
They do however, forget that guns back in our forefather's time were inaccurate, fire-once-per-minute affairs, and that the difference in technology between armies and farmer weapons were not much different, so bearing arms did defend oneself from enemies and were used to hunt food.
In this day and age, automatic weapons of mass death and pinpoint accuracy are the norm - we don't need guns for food anymore and these guns don't protect us from our enemies (terrorists and ourselves). We use guns for sport, for play.
In the innercities of this great nation, guns are used to kill people everyday. It's only mass murder that makes the news, much like kidnappings. You only hear of the kidnapping of rich, white, suburban daughters - do you know the statistics on minorities disappearing in cities? Why do only some cases make national news?
That's a whole separate issue, but mainly, I'm wondering when we shall see that freedom of bearing arms outweighs the benefits. I'm hoping that it won't take much more of these school shootings to change the opinion of the public.
Times have changed - Today, one nutjob with a gun can kill dozens. In the old days you could have tackled him in between shots.
Our laws should change to reflect that.
To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire
GOLD Member
member
165 posts
Location: Australia
member
165 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
You put that very well. Thanks... now get out there and convince the other 298,444,215 people!
You put that very well. Thanks... now get out there and convince the other 298,444,215 people!
... simplify ...
*Green Spirit*
201 posts
Location: Southampton, England
201 posts
Location: Southampton, England
Posted:
This is so sad!
This is so sad!
Are you a robot...or an alien?
SILVER Member
member
165 posts
Location: In Bed, New Zealand
member
165 posts
Location: In Bed, New Zealand
Posted:
admittedly this is only taken from another forum but as apparently this "right [for everybody] to bear arms" thing is bit of misnomer
taken from wiki
to me that reads "right [for a military organisation that is regulated] to bear arms" not "the right [for every tom dick and harry] to bear arms to kill your ex g/f and anyone else you fancy cos u've been dumped".
on the same forum it was also pointed out that canada and switzerland also have high percentages of gun-owners per population but they dont seem to have the same issue. make of that what you will.
EDITED_BY: biggins (1176801636)
admittedly this is only taken from another forum but as apparently this "right [for everybody] to bear arms" thing is bit of misnomer
taken from wiki
Written by:
The Second Amendment, as passed by the House and Senate and later ratified by the States, reads:
“ A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. ”
The hand-written copy of the Bill of Rights which hangs in the National Archives had slightly different capitalization and punctuation inserted by William Lambert, the scribe who prepared it. This copy reads:
“ A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. ”
Both versions are commonly used in official Government publications.
to me that reads "right [for a military organisation that is regulated] to bear arms" not "the right [for every tom dick and harry] to bear arms to kill your ex g/f and anyone else you fancy cos u've been dumped".
on the same forum it was also pointed out that canada and switzerland also have high percentages of gun-owners per population but they dont seem to have the same issue. make of that what you will.
EDITED_BY: biggins (1176801636)
Wielding a Wooden Spoon
SILVER Member
member
165 posts
Location: In Bed, New Zealand
member
165 posts
Location: In Bed, New Zealand
Posted:
ps: agreed with the above.a tragic loss of life
ps: agreed with the above.a tragic loss of life
Wielding a Wooden Spoon
Carpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
Posted:
see my signiture
R.I.P. to the students, thoughts go out to the familys
see my signiture
R.I.P. to the students, thoughts go out to the familys
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
kael and biggins: very good points
and i know i'm going to irritate people with this, but it is my opinion that i agree with the whole concealed weapons point too
in my old neighborhood 32 people would not have died.
it would have been nice to wound the shooter so that he could be prosecuted and we could find out definitely why he did this.
the resident advisor did let the dorm people know that there was a shooting and they should stay in their rooms and away from the windows. msn has good coverage of this story including interactive timeline and map
there was a conference there at the time, and there were a bunch of people from milwaukee school of engineering there. they just got home and appear pretty shaken up. they were in the engineering building but were not hurt.
we don't need more gun laws. we need to enforce the ones we already have.
ok go and yell at me
kael and biggins: very good points
and i know i'm going to irritate people with this, but it is my opinion that i agree with the whole concealed weapons point too
in my old neighborhood 32 people would not have died.
it would have been nice to wound the shooter so that he could be prosecuted and we could find out definitely why he did this.
the resident advisor did let the dorm people know that there was a shooting and they should stay in their rooms and away from the windows. msn has good coverage of this story including interactive timeline and map
there was a conference there at the time, and there were a bunch of people from milwaukee school of engineering there. they just got home and appear pretty shaken up. they were in the engineering building but were not hurt.
we don't need more gun laws. we need to enforce the ones we already have.
ok go and yell at me
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Part-time genius
59 posts
Location: Netherlands
59 posts
Location: Netherlands
Posted:
Surely it would be better to just have the one law banning them? Difficult to implement sure, but there's only so long you can pretend guns don't give nutjobs an easy-as-you-please way to kill people.
Surely it would be better to just have the one law banning them? Difficult to implement sure, but there's only so long you can pretend guns don't give nutjobs an easy-as-you-please way to kill people.
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
*sigh* :/
*sigh* :/
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
well first i didn't say but thought that my prayers go out to these families
second,
we are in a country where there are probably just as many illegal guns as there are legal registered ones
so we make them illegal, all the law abiding people give up there weapons, but why would those who have illegal ones give them up? they don't follow laws anyways. why follow this one? is a jail sentence supposed to make them comply? depending on who they are it just gives them street cred
if i had one, i probably would not just hand it over. i'm sort of a clutz though so i prefer small knives in way of protection
well first i didn't say but thought that my prayers go out to these families
second,
we are in a country where there are probably just as many illegal guns as there are legal registered ones
so we make them illegal, all the law abiding people give up there weapons, but why would those who have illegal ones give them up? they don't follow laws anyways. why follow this one? is a jail sentence supposed to make them comply? depending on who they are it just gives them street cred
if i had one, i probably would not just hand it over. i'm sort of a clutz though so i prefer small knives in way of protection
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Future Mrs Pogo
4,728 posts
Location: The wrong place
4,728 posts
Location: The wrong place
Posted:
You know...I think the only person that I respect in this thread right now is the original poster...our thoughts need to be with the families who lost loved ones...there is no need to go and throw blame around because it's not gonna change a damn thing...those people are gonna stay just as dead...
Granted, our gun laws suck...but in a country that is as massive as this one is...do you really think that trying to outlaw them will do one bit of good???...get real...!!!...they'd still be out there...but would be *oooooh* illegal...that would change everything!!!
You know...I think the only person that I respect in this thread right now is the original poster...our thoughts need to be with the families who lost loved ones...there is no need to go and throw blame around because it's not gonna change a damn thing...those people are gonna stay just as dead...
Granted, our gun laws suck...but in a country that is as massive as this one is...do you really think that trying to outlaw them will do one bit of good???...get real...!!!...they'd still be out there...but would be *oooooh* illegal...that would change everything!!!
"Absence is to love what wind is to fire...it extinguishes the small, enkindles the great."
--Comte Debussy-Rebutin
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Really I mourn the victims and put my condolences out to the families, but how many more ppl have to die until the govt is finally stepping up actions?
This is not an isolated incident. It happens at least once a year!
It's too easy to say that "we have too many (illegal) guns already and there is nothing we can do about it..."
How many more (innocent) ppl have to die! Tell me: HOW MANY!
The US is first row when it comes to interfering with other countries and putting their ideals upon them.
Why not starting to invade their own country and get things "civilized"... I say you have to make them illegal, put charges up so high, so ppl think twice in owning them.
Sure the NRA is powerful, but hey! If you cant keep law and order in your own country, how can you possibly pinpoint at others?
It just saddens me! So much that my arguments might discredit me, as they are clearly emotional and maybe beyond reason.
Guys, please get your act together!
There are enough drugs in the country - yet you are able to make them illegal and prosecute offenders... not that THIS would change SOOO much [/rant]
Really I mourn the victims and put my condolences out to the families, but how many more ppl have to die until the govt is finally stepping up actions?
This is not an isolated incident. It happens at least once a year!
It's too easy to say that "we have too many (illegal) guns already and there is nothing we can do about it..."
How many more (innocent) ppl have to die! Tell me: HOW MANY!
The US is first row when it comes to interfering with other countries and putting their ideals upon them.
Why not starting to invade their own country and get things "civilized"... I say you have to make them illegal, put charges up so high, so ppl think twice in owning them.
Sure the NRA is powerful, but hey! If you cant keep law and order in your own country, how can you possibly pinpoint at others?
It just saddens me! So much that my arguments might discredit me, as they are clearly emotional and maybe beyond reason.
Guys, please get your act together!
There are enough drugs in the country - yet you are able to make them illegal and prosecute offenders... not that THIS would change SOOO much
[/rant] the best smiles are the ones you lead to
GOLD Member
organic creation
246 posts
Location: earth, Wales (UK)
organic creation
246 posts
Location: earth, Wales (UK)
Posted:
my thoughts go out to all the victims, survivors and families.
EDITED_BY: sagetree (1176840608)
my thoughts go out to all the victims, survivors and families.
EDITED_BY: sagetree (1176840608)
SILVER Member
member
48 posts
Location: United Kingdom
member
48 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
The gun lawas in the US make me angry. At work we have a ticket for salt lake ( or somewheres) FIRE DEPARTMENTS ANNUAL gun raffle. Why is the fire department having a GUN raffle.....???
Also someone does need to do more to combat bullying in schools....as someone who was bullyed my school did nothing but make it worse when i can think of several simple things to do that whislt might not make it better...wouldn't have made it worse..not saying this is why this shooting happened..but it is often an influenceing factor.
EDITED_BY: KaiyaLeaves (1176842608)
The gun lawas in the US make me angry. At work we have a ticket for salt lake ( or somewheres) FIRE DEPARTMENTS ANNUAL gun raffle. Why is the fire department having a GUN raffle.....???
Also someone does need to do more to combat bullying in schools....as someone who was bullyed my school did nothing but make it worse when i can think of several simple things to do that whislt might not make it better...wouldn't have made it worse..not saying this is why this shooting happened..but it is often an influenceing factor.
EDITED_BY: KaiyaLeaves (1176842608)
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
this really does not seem to have anything to do with guns or bullying. it seems to have to do with a person who did not recieve proper mental health treatment.
from what they released about his writing, Cho was either really disturbed or had some horrid things happen to him. he didn't have a criminal history but there was a report that he stalked a woman on campus.
what they released about Cho's writing reveals a troubled mind.
i defer to the doctors here, but isn't his age about the time psychotic breaks and schizophrenia often begin?
this really does not seem to have anything to do with guns or bullying. it seems to have to do with a person who did not recieve proper mental health treatment.
from what they released about his writing, Cho was either really disturbed or had some horrid things happen to him. he didn't have a criminal history but there was a report that he stalked a woman on campus.
what they released about Cho's writing reveals a troubled mind.
i defer to the doctors here, but isn't his age about the time psychotic breaks and schizophrenia often begin?
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Pooh-Bah
2,303 posts
Location: Brisbane
2,303 posts
Location: Brisbane
Posted:
This kid for all intents and purpose was a law abiding citizen... If the access to guns wasn't so prolific then he wouldn't have had been able to walk down to the corner shop and purchase one with a load of ammo.
By making things illegal it at least makes the access to it harder. Sure there is always going to be the criminals and there guns, its a given. But kids having a bad week wont be able to pick up their fathers/brothers/sisters/mum/cousins, whoevers gun and go on a rampage.
Thats just my opinion!!! Rant over
Written by: faithinfire
we are in a country where there are probably just as many illegal guns as there are legal registered ones
so we make them illegal, all the law abiding people give up there weapons, but why would those who have illegal ones give them up? they don't follow laws anyways. why follow this one? is a jail sentence supposed to make them comply? depending on who they are it just gives them street cred
if i had one, i probably would not just hand it over. i'm sort of a clutz though so i prefer small knives in way of protection
This kid for all intents and purpose was a law abiding citizen... If the access to guns wasn't so prolific then he wouldn't have had been able to walk down to the corner shop and purchase one with a
load of ammo.By making things illegal it at least makes the access to it harder. Sure there is always going to be the criminals and there guns, its a given. But kids having a bad week wont be able to pick up their fathers/brothers/sisters/mum/cousins, whoevers gun and go on a rampage.
Thats just my opinion!!! Rant over
:admires giant wooden aeroplane: Its about time trees were good for something, instead of just standing their like jerks!!! 
Homer rocks!!!! 
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Well said Fire Tom, and well written. You make some excellent points.
I just like to say that at this time of mourning perhaps we could also extend some sympathy and understanding to the people living in Iraq. Since they have been forced to live with horrendous violence, on a day-today basis, since the invasion.
For sure, something is wrong with western culture when people go on mass killing sprees. I think part of this is due to the politics of current world leaders, as well as bullying, easy availability of guns etcetc.
I don’t think it sends a good message to the populous when current world leaders think all problems can be solved with guns and violence. And, I don’t think it sends a good message when “Fighter jets circled the skies above the small university town of Blacksburg as Mr Bush arrived for the memorial service for the 32 victims.” I mean, what does that say?
Perhaps the US war on terrorism really does start at home. Imagine, what the world would look like if our leaders put as much time and effort into striving for global peace, as do into making war and trying to kill each other.
As far as blaming this incident on someone suffering from mental problems. I think we need to examine what we really believe in. From a Buddhist perspective “Many Buddhists believe that world peace can only be achieved if we first establish peace within our minds. The idea is that anger and other negative states of mind are the cause of wars and fighting. They believe we can live in peace and harmony only if we abandon the anger in our minds and learn to love each other" (wiki).
The following article makes some excellent points on guns in American society: A look inside America's gun culture. Because for sure, “Those who live by the sword die by the sword.”
“rant over”
Well said Fire Tom, and well written. You make some excellent points.
I just like to say that at this time of mourning perhaps we could also extend some sympathy and understanding to the people living in Iraq. Since they have been forced to live with horrendous violence, on a day-today basis, since the invasion.
For sure, something is wrong with western culture when people go on mass killing sprees. I think part of this is due to the politics of current world leaders, as well as bullying, easy availability of guns etcetc.
I don’t think it sends a good message to the populous when current world leaders think all problems can be solved with guns and violence. And, I don’t think it sends a good message when “Fighter jets circled the skies above the small university town of Blacksburg as Mr Bush arrived for the memorial service for the 32 victims.” I mean, what does that say?
Perhaps the US war on terrorism really does start at home. Imagine, what the world would look like if our leaders put as much time and effort into striving for global peace, as do into making war and trying to kill each other.
As far as blaming this incident on someone suffering from mental problems. I think we need to examine what we really believe in. From a Buddhist perspective “Many Buddhists believe that world peace can only be achieved if we first establish peace within our minds. The idea is that anger and other negative states of mind are the cause of wars and fighting. They believe we can live in peace and harmony only if we abandon the anger in our minds and learn to love each other" (wiki).
The following article makes some excellent points on guns in American society: A look inside America's gun culture. Because for sure, “Those who live by the sword die by the sword.”
“rant over”
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
To clear some points.
Virginia is in the American south, not midwest. The U.S. South has some of the most laxed gun laws in the nation.
He had two guns. The Glock was purchased through legal means, within that state, with practice ammo, not live ammo. They haven't determined where he got the other gun (a .22) and the live ammo. It's easy to get illegal weapons here, so who knows. He scratched the serial #'s off so who knows if anyone will ever find out. Every state has it's own gun laws, it is not a federal thing, or a "U.S. Government" thing. It is a state thing. But laws won't change the fact that they are easily accessible illegally. (btw, I am not discussing my personal opinion on gun control, just a fact). The coulda, shoulda, woulda's about gun control and whether it should be more federally restricted won't bring those 33 people back. And in several cases of such shootings, the guns are illegally gotten.
Now, if you know anything about guns you know that neither a Glock 9mm or a .22 that can be readily purchased are automatics (someone mentioned automatic weapons). Magazines commonly available for these tend to hold an average of 17 rounds (standard). A .22 is not a "killing" gun. You either have to be a dead shot and be close or load someone up with them. To kill 31 people, means he had to be pumping out rounds (and according to witnesses, he was). In the engineering building he supposedly opened fire for about a minute and a half, which would also require reload time. People hid under desks and he shot them as he walked between the rows.
He bought the 9mm over a month ago and had plenty of time to practice, but the variables of motion and that will make every shot uncertain.
In the time frame of shootings and the weapons used, that was a really looooooong time for no one to do anything. That really surprises me. And not all the doors were chained shut. There were construction access doors that were wide open.
Several people who died are actually foreign, including a professor from Romania who literally used his body to block the door so his students could jump out of windows. Sadly he is among the dead now. That is why this is getting so much global attention. A kid from Peru. An instructor from India, another from Canada and I believe one from Iran (or another country I can't remember). A kid from somewhere in Europe, etc....
Cho wasn't bullied. He was off kilter and that is a very valid point when talking about this. How could he have been made to get help? What else could the faculty have done when they recognised the symptoms of something wrong? He literally didn't speak to anyone. He even signed into a class with a question mark instead of his name. His faculty told him to go to see the school councellor but couldn't force him as he is over the age of 21. Recognition of mental illness gone unchecked will help to keep fingers from pointing at pop cultural aspects and the idiocy that ensues from that. My only fear is that it will breed further zero tolerance policies which I feel have already gotten out of hand in many areas.
He didn't target an RA spefically, he targetted a floor in the dorms with a high concentration of women. The RA's of each floor were told to inform the students on their floors to stay in. Many flipped the beds, hid under the mattresses and hoped for the best.
He left a multi-page note berating women and rich kids. I would bet that is what he viewed the entire school as being full of.
The school and police is where I feel it failed horribly. They have an outdoor public speaker system that they could have used. They always have access to the radio stations to broadcast any form of issues. Instead they sent an email stating that (paraphrased) 'There was an incedent on the 4th floor on xxx dormitory this morning. Please proceed through your day with caution and if you see anything suspicious, please notify the police.'
Now in August 2006 when the same school, the same building, had a mental case fugitive who broke away from jail, killing a medical guard and a sheriff in persuit of him and then took the gunfire into the engineering building, they closed classes for the day. If they had have followed this same proceedure then 31 people would be alive today.
It's that the school says they did all they can when the email was sent out about 2 hours later. Faculty in the engineering building were reading it and discussing it when they heard the second shootings begin. A little too late methinks. That is what really, really me off.
And then they have the audacity to stand up and say they did everything they could.
Our community here has 3 people who attend that school. All three are alive, one was injured. The two that missed the action completely are back here now.
The other thing that ticked me off is that by 9pm here there were hour long special reports, in addition to normal news coverage, that offered nothing but crap speculation and "No comment" filled interviews. It sucked so much and I am sure it brough no solace to anyone. Media races tick me off and I turned the tv off at that point.
They interviewed the local kids on the radio today, including the one still in Virginia. It was painful to listen to. These poor kids are going to be traumatized for the rest of their lives. And the families, those poor families.
One news report brought up a very good point about the propensity for knee-jerk reactions to debase it to a racial thing and I seriously hope that it will not be reduced to it. We have enough issues of this nature, for no freakin' reason, in this country without one more added to the list. Next thing you know people are going to have to take brain scans and mental probing before they can get into the country.
And why can't tragedies like this just be mourned without being turned into political grandstanding and debates immediately? Wtf happened to respectful distance?
Why can't people like this just shoot themselves without taking everyone else with them? That is what I *really* want to know.
Godspeed to the victims. Peace to the families.
To clear some points.
Virginia is in the American south, not midwest. The U.S. South has some of the most laxed gun laws in the nation.
He had two guns. The Glock was purchased through legal means, within that state, with practice ammo, not live ammo. They haven't determined where he got the other gun (a .22) and the live ammo. It's easy to get illegal weapons here, so who knows. He scratched the serial #'s off so who knows if anyone will ever find out. Every state has it's own gun laws, it is not a federal thing, or a "U.S. Government" thing. It is a state thing. But laws won't change the fact that they are easily accessible illegally. (btw, I am not discussing my personal opinion on gun control, just a fact). The coulda, shoulda, woulda's about gun control and whether it should be more federally restricted won't bring those 33 people back. And in several cases of such shootings, the guns are illegally gotten.
Now, if you know anything about guns you know that neither a Glock 9mm or a .22 that can be readily purchased are automatics (someone mentioned automatic weapons). Magazines commonly available for these tend to hold an average of 17 rounds (standard). A .22 is not a "killing" gun. You either have to be a dead shot and be close or load someone up with them. To kill 31 people, means he had to be pumping out rounds (and according to witnesses, he was). In the engineering building he supposedly opened fire for about a minute and a half, which would also require reload time. People hid under desks and he shot them as he walked between the rows.
He bought the 9mm over a month ago and had plenty of time to practice, but the variables of motion and that will make every shot uncertain.
In the time frame of shootings and the weapons used, that was a really looooooong time for no one to do anything. That really surprises me. And not all the doors were chained shut. There were construction access doors that were wide open.
Several people who died are actually foreign, including a professor from Romania who literally used his body to block the door so his students could jump out of windows. Sadly he is among the dead now. That is why this is getting so much global attention. A kid from Peru. An instructor from India, another from Canada and I believe one from Iran (or another country I can't remember). A kid from somewhere in Europe, etc....
Cho wasn't bullied. He was off kilter and that is a very valid point when talking about this. How could he have been made to get help? What else could the faculty have done when they recognised the symptoms of something wrong? He literally didn't speak to anyone. He even signed into a class with a question mark instead of his name. His faculty told him to go to see the school councellor but couldn't force him as he is over the age of 21. Recognition of mental illness gone unchecked will help to keep fingers from pointing at pop cultural aspects and the idiocy that ensues from that. My only fear is that it will breed further zero tolerance policies which I feel have already gotten out of hand in many areas.
He didn't target an RA spefically, he targetted a floor in the dorms with a high concentration of women. The RA's of each floor were told to inform the students on their floors to stay in. Many flipped the beds, hid under the mattresses and hoped for the best.
He left a multi-page note berating women and rich kids. I would bet that is what he viewed the entire school as being full of.
The school and police is where I feel it failed horribly. They have an outdoor public speaker system that they could have used. They always have access to the radio stations to broadcast any form of issues. Instead they sent an email stating that (paraphrased) 'There was an incedent on the 4th floor on xxx dormitory this morning. Please proceed through your day with caution and if you see anything suspicious, please notify the police.'
Now in August 2006 when the same school, the same building, had a mental case fugitive who broke away from jail, killing a medical guard and a sheriff in persuit of him and then took the gunfire into the engineering building, they closed classes for the day. If they had have followed this same proceedure then 31 people would be alive today.
It's
that the school says they did all they can when the email was sent out about 2 hours later. Faculty in the engineering building were reading it and discussing it when they heard the second shootings begin. A little too late methinks. That is what really, really me off.And then they have the audacity to stand up and say they did everything they could.
Our community here has 3 people who attend that school. All three are alive, one was injured. The two that missed the action completely are back here now.
The other thing that ticked me off is that by 9pm here there were hour long special reports, in addition to normal news coverage, that offered nothing but crap speculation and "No comment" filled interviews. It sucked so much and I am sure it brough no solace to anyone. Media races tick me off and I turned the tv off at that point.
They interviewed the local kids on the radio today, including the one still in Virginia. It was painful to listen to. These poor kids are going to be traumatized for the rest of their lives. And the families, those poor families.
One news report brought up a very good point about the propensity for knee-jerk reactions to debase it to a racial thing and I seriously hope that it will not be reduced to it. We have enough issues of this nature, for no freakin' reason, in this country without one more added to the list. Next thing you know people are going to have to take brain scans and mental probing before they can get into the country.
And why can't tragedies like this just be mourned without being turned into political grandstanding and debates immediately? Wtf happened to respectful distance?
Why can't people like this just shoot themselves without taking everyone else with them? That is what I *really* want to know.
Godspeed to the victims. Peace to the families.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
As to your questions, Pele:
"Why can't people like this just shoot themselves without taking everyone else with them? That is what I *really* want to know."
There are infinite reasons. But one is predominant: Because they CAN...
"Why can't tragedies like this just be mourned without being turned into political grandstanding and debates immediately? Wtf happened to respectful distance?"
I am really sorry that this came so close to your home. You have no idea... But when I read the headlines, I thought: Not AGAIN! And at the same time I had to look into the face of one of THE most bigoted world leaders... It just sickened me. And you know what sickened me the most? To observe my own feelings in this very moment, as I was numb.
It is not that this incident is isolated, it is not that something like this would not happen at least once in two years in the US. Whilst mourning is important for the relatives and all those immediately affected, I would suppose that IF they see (political) actions happening and people caring all over the world, they might get the feeling that the deaths of their friends and relatives was not completely senseless and for the satisfaction of some lunatic only.
Please forgive me for ranting.
But what your govt is doing right now might be the "same procedure as every year". There will be mourning, then after some time, when the dust has settled it will be back to "business as usual".
Now the international community is affected - not just some tourists, but exchange students and teachers. I feel deeply humbled by the great sacrifice of Liviu Librescu, 76. The man behind the name He was one of those, who escaped the Holocaust. He was disregarding his own wellbeing and acting way beyond his responsibility, in deep love for his students.
And whilst the world declares that tougher gun laws would reduce the numbers, you find ppl saying that "concealed carry" should be permitted - as this would have the same effect...
Btw - scratched serial numbers will NOT prevent their detection as a stamped serial number leaves a "fingerprint" in the metal. But what does it matter? What (in the end) does it matter, whether he bought the gun (il)legally?
The fact of the matter is that gun laws in the US are inaccurate today. I would say that proclaiming otherwise is disrespectful to the victims and those affected.
IMHO the NRA and the manufacturers should be sued the same way as the tobacco industry got sued and they should have to finance heightened security efforts (as in metal detectors and security) in schools... errm, excuse: not heightened, but "appropriate" to the current situation.
Please excuse my sarcasm, but I am certain that no weapon carries a "health warning"... Personally I have already fired a gun, I do have an idea of the energy that comes from it and the "power" it transfers to its bearer. The effects of them (in the wrong hands) are proven every day - worldwide.
Sure I can get a gun ANYWHERE on the planet, if I REALLY want one, but why is the US (as a community) not able to at least dry out the legal opportunities?
How many more have to die?
Would you think anyone would have cared as much about the Bali-bombings back in 2002, if it would have affected Indonesian citizens only? These shootings are "acts of terrorism" - IMHO - not against the state, but against the citizens and unfortunately that is making the significant difference as it seems.
As to your questions, Pele:
"Why can't people like this just shoot themselves without taking everyone else with them? That is what I *really* want to know."
There are infinite reasons. But one is predominant: Because they CAN...
"Why can't tragedies like this just be mourned without being turned into political grandstanding and debates immediately? Wtf happened to respectful distance?"
I am really sorry that this came so close to your home. You have no idea... But when I read the headlines, I thought: Not AGAIN! And at the same time I had to look into the face of one of THE most bigoted world leaders... It just sickened me. And you know what sickened me the most? To observe my own feelings in this very moment, as I was numb.
It is not that this incident is isolated, it is not that something like this would not happen at least once in two years in the US. Whilst mourning is important for the relatives and all those immediately affected, I would suppose that IF they see (political) actions happening and people caring all over the world, they might get the feeling that the deaths of their friends and relatives was not completely senseless and for the satisfaction of some lunatic only.
Please forgive me for ranting.
But what your govt is doing right now might be the "same procedure as every year". There will be mourning, then after some time, when the dust has settled it will be back to "business as usual".
Now the international community is affected - not just some tourists, but exchange students and teachers. I feel deeply humbled by the great sacrifice of Liviu Librescu, 76. The man behind the name He was one of those, who escaped the Holocaust. He was disregarding his own wellbeing and acting way beyond his responsibility, in deep love for his students.
Written by: AP
The Virginia Tech shootings sparked criticism of U.S. gun control laws around the world Tuesday. Editorials lashed out at the availability of weapons, and the leader of Australia — one of America's closest allies — declared that America's gun culture was costing lives. (...)
"Only the names change — And the numbers," read a headline in the Times of London. "Why, we ask, do Americans continue to tolerate gun laws and a culture that seems to condemn thousands of innocents to death every year, when presumably, tougher restrictions, such as those in force in European countries, could at least reduce the number?" (London Times)
(...)
"It would be unjust and especially false to reduce the United States to the image created, in a recurrent way, from the bursts of murderous fury that some isolated individuals succumb to. But acts like this are rare elsewhere, and tend to often disfigure the 'American dream.'" (Le Monde)
(...)
Britain's 46 homicides involving firearms last year was the lowest since the late 1980s. New York City, with 8 million people compared to 53 million in England and Wales, recorded 590 homicides last year. (...)
But even in Germany, where gun-control laws are strict, a teenager in 2002 shot and killed 12 teachers, a secretary, two students and a police officer at a high school. The shooter was a gun club member licensed to own weapons. The attack led Germany to raise the age for owning recreational firearms from 18 to 21. (...)
And whilst the world declares that tougher gun laws would reduce the numbers, you find ppl saying that "concealed carry" should be permitted - as this would have the same effect...
Btw - scratched serial numbers will NOT prevent their detection as a stamped serial number leaves a "fingerprint" in the metal. But what does it matter? What (in the end) does it matter, whether he bought the gun (il)legally?
The fact of the matter is that gun laws in the US are inaccurate today. I would say that proclaiming otherwise is disrespectful to the victims and those affected.
IMHO the NRA and the manufacturers should be sued the same way as the tobacco industry got sued and they should have to finance heightened security efforts (as in metal detectors and security) in schools... errm, excuse: not heightened, but "appropriate" to the current situation.
Please excuse my sarcasm, but I am certain that no weapon carries a "health warning"... Personally I have already fired a gun, I do have an idea of the energy that comes from it and the "power" it transfers to its bearer. The effects of them (in the wrong hands) are proven every day - worldwide.
Sure I can get a gun ANYWHERE on the planet, if I REALLY want one, but why is the US (as a community) not able to at least dry out the legal opportunities?
How many more have to die?
Would you think anyone would have cared as much about the Bali-bombings back in 2002, if it would have affected Indonesian citizens only? These shootings are "acts of terrorism" - IMHO - not against the state, but against the citizens and unfortunately that is making the significant difference as it seems.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
Wow some of you guys are really off base. Something is wrong with Western Culture? The kid was South Korean, he wasn't even from here. It must be us American's fault for letting him do this to us I guess. All of you who are crying for more gun laws are grossly misguided. There are plenty of gun laws, we do NOT need more of them. If you want to ask for anything how about enforcing the ones we currently have instead of making more?
He could have, and would have done a lot more damage with a simple car bomb over a shooting spree, so don't tell me guns are the reason he killed so many. People with CCW's by in large are good, honest, law abiding citizens. Making more gun laws and restrictions does nothing to prevent criminals from commiting crime. It does however prevent us good people from protecting ourselves.
What the hell is you peoples problem? 33 people are dead, the question of creating, more laws is pointless, laws did not, and could not stop this from happening. People following those laws could not stop this from happening because they were following those laws. They were defenseless purely because the school was legally a "gun free zone." Those are just words on a piece of paper, that do nothing but stop the people who follow the rules. If there had been someone else armed, a properly trained and licensed civilian, this whole thing *could* have been stopped long before the total reached 33.
Right now, the LAW, filled that building with a bunch of defenseless sheep, hiding behind desks until their turn came. Their ability to fight back was removed by the gun laws that you people want to make stricter. I for one would want the ability to fight back if someone intended to kill me..
I guess you guys would just stand there and take it since you don't want people to fight back.
Wow some of you guys are really off base. Something is wrong with Western Culture? The kid was South Korean, he wasn't even from here. It must be us American's fault for letting him do this to us I guess. All of you who are crying for more gun laws are grossly misguided. There are plenty of gun laws, we do NOT need more of them. If you want to ask for anything how about enforcing the ones we currently have instead of making more?
He could have, and would have done a lot more damage with a simple car bomb over a shooting spree, so don't tell me guns are the reason he killed so many. People with CCW's by in large are good, honest, law abiding citizens. Making more gun laws and restrictions does nothing to prevent criminals from commiting crime. It does however prevent us good people from protecting ourselves.
What the hell is you peoples problem? 33 people are dead, the question of creating, more laws is pointless, laws did not, and could not stop this from happening. People following those laws could not stop this from happening because they were following those laws. They were defenseless purely because the school was legally a "gun free zone." Those are just words on a piece of paper, that do nothing but stop the people who follow the rules. If there had been someone else armed, a properly trained and licensed civilian, this whole thing *could* have been stopped long before the total reached 33.
Right now, the LAW, filled that building with a bunch of defenseless sheep, hiding behind desks until their turn came. Their ability to fight back was removed by the gun laws that you people want to make stricter. I for one would want the ability to fight back if someone intended to kill me..
I guess you guys would just stand there and take it since you don't want people to fight back.
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