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Forums > Social Discussion > Maori dislike of performance poi

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DarkFyre
BRONZE Member since Nov 2005

DarkFyre

HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Location: Palmerston North

Total posts: 1965
Posted:Ok i just thought that i would bring this up because i can.

Many (but not all) traditional Maori types seem to dislike our kind of poi and they seem to take it as offencive to there culture or something along those lines. There seems to be this ingrained view that if you are doing anything other than Kappa Haka with traditional precussion poi that you are somehow soiling their culture.

Just for one genuine example, i was on my way into town on Witangi day (NZ indipendance day if that helps non Kiwis understand it better) and i was spinning my poi as i went (when i passed sombody on the street i showed off a little bit) but when i passed this Maori woman she gave me a filthy look and with utter contempt in her voice said to her hubby loud enough for all to hear "look what they're doing with our poi" and i just couldn't understand wy she was so dissaproving of my spinning.

The flipside of this however is when they come up to you bold as brass and demand to spin because they are so much better at poi than you will ever be, they then proceed to hit themsleves in the head much to my amusement.

I've never understood this maori tendancy to say that anything they came up with is theirs and theirs alone so damn anybody that trys to addapt or improve upon it.

All this said and done the younger or less traditional Maori will either not care or be poi spinners that appreciate the growth that this artform has seen.


May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:dizzypheonix, Im not really sure where you are going with this, but I would suggest that there is more than an element of performance in Maori poi.



To answer your question who do you think came up with a 3bt weave?



Id say that the 3-beat weave, chase, over/under, crosss and follow, call it what you like, was developed independently by many cultures. Examples would include Chinese meteor and Indian club swinging. Its not that unique.



Modern poi is not a bastardized form of Maori poi. The two arts seem very different for a number of cultural and other reasons. For sure, one of the differences b/t traditional Maori poi and what you call modern poi, is that the cornerstone for modern poi is firmly based in Indian club swinging. Where do you think moves like the fountain and windmill came from? Not to mention the dreaded waist wrap wink



weavesmiley


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Do they also have troubles with for say a guy like this, wearing Ta Moko? umm
Non-Https Image Link




I dunno much about Maori, have only met a few - which all have been great chaps, however - as much as I do know about them is



their pride, strength, ability to withstand long terms without (any) food with their physiology, the extremely fine detailled artwork (Ta Moko, (Bone/ Stone/ Wood) Carvings), only do know one story "Whale Rider" rolleyes that they were able to withstand the British invasion long enough to get much more respect in return for that than the Australian Aboriginals.



Nice that some are able to completely withdraw from that "problem". Personally I can't take it that easy (like as in an exception to "western barbarianism"). If the Aboriginals would put out a memorandum on how unacceptable they find white ppl playing Yidaki, I would either go Arnhemland and get their approval, or simply stop playing... (yeah, I'm breeding some dodgy tourist traps here ubblol ) ... and go back to this one




Non-Https Image Link




Certainly I was "spinning" and I will "twirl"... But I am spinning "POI" <<-- get it? umm Am I - from now on - forced to simply refer to them as "BALLS"?



Again, no input from Malcolm or George? umm



PS: Ditto, Stone clap it's not as if anyone can claim the exclusive rights on having invented "Poi swinging" - that'd be proposterous... but IF I'm referring to them as POI and am offending Maoris with it? confused


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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FireByNite
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

FireByNite

Are you up for it??
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 349
Posted:Taken off poi.co.nz



"Poi as an art form originated from the Maori, the native people of New Zealand.



Originally used as a weapon training technique, poi has been modified and enhanced over the last few decades, evolving into a performance dance, incorporating fire."



Also one view of the translation:



1"Poi - Hawaiian dish made from Taro root

a dish made from the root of the taro, cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented. It is eaten as a staple in Hawaii and other Pacific islands.



2"Poi - ball used in maori dances

a light ball on a string, swung as a rhythmic accompaniment to Maori dance and song"



And from a drunk, silly perspective - does this now mean we eat our balls??

umm ubblol ubblol



Please take note of the definition above in bold smile



I also think that the word "evolving" has a big meaning in this discussion


Are you up for it?
wink;)

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: HOP

Total posts: 1012
Posted:Is our use of "Poi" offensive to the Maori?

To some it is, but I think it is only a minority.

Every new generation adds to the "culture".

Hop (especially George) has been growing new relationships with Maori and traditional Poi. We have a few projects on the go which are very exciting. All Maori we have contacted so far have been very keen to work with Hop and build a working relationship.



"Poi" is a Maori word and therefore the word is "owned" by the Maori.



So Hop had investigated our use of the word with the Maori Trade Marks Advisory Committee

and they reported back that our use is not offensive to Maori.



In the global community we can all learn from each other, Maori and Pakeha and "non-Maori".

We can all look forward to more Maori cultural input and joint Maori projects in the near future.



See also: History of Poi in New Zealand



From books I have at home, "Poi" weapons were rocks at the end of flax cords swung at the legs of attacker, these days we seem to find better targets to inflict pain on ourselves wink

Also a fire version was used by the Maori in gaining access to a Maori Fortress. It was thrown more like a flaming missile using the whip action of the cord to gain extra distance.

Of course Maori are not the only ones to use weapons like this

see also: Swung weapons



FYI: Maori tribes were scattered all over New Zealand and each tribe had their own unique language (at least 9 different) and cultures.



re: "only girls do poi"

I can imagine a defensive tribe would say to their attackers "Ha ha only girls swing poi" or maybe other insults wink

So what was "traditional" for one tribe is still not "traditional" for another. Hence the conflicting accounts of history you will hear.



Now a single "standardized for television" Maori language is commonplace, but it is difficult to have a single national history of Maori poi.



Remember that "Poi" is a Word much like "Music".

They certainly go hand in hand biggrin

I am certain my Great Great Great Grandfather hug would say "That's not music" to what we hear on the radio today. Just as some people will say "That's not Poi".



Maori do swing poi as a percussion instrument off the body, and swing the Poi using actions to tell a story. They also have "traditional" moves similar to like what we call "Butterfly" and "Weaves", and they even do simple "wraps", throws and catches.

Some Maori tribes were more "advanced" in their tricks than others. We still see this today in all things within the global community.



Regards



Malcolm


"May your balls always burn"

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

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Total posts: 4693
Posted:very nice post malcolm, but i'd expect no less smile

i feel graced to have been in the presence of santa ubblol


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:ubblove hug thanks for filling the void [phews for being able to continue telling ppl that I'm spinning Poi and that it is related to Maori culture]

good to have you


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:very good informative post
i guess i didn't think of it cause i always say i spin, and then i say it's derived from the Maori
but Malcom is absolutely right about poi and music, great analogy


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Posted:there's an interesting discussion here from the maori point of view (link posted by a friend on a tribe.net group)

http://www.aocafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3335


aka hunnybear in burning man circles
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_Aime_
SILVER Member since Jan 2004

_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings

Total posts: 4172
Posted: Written by: k8et


there's an interesting discussion here from the maori point of view (link posted by a friend on a tribe.net group)

http://www.aocafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3335



Reading that made me very sad frown


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Pinkadelic


Pinkadelic

member
Location: On top of a Nipple

Total posts: 70
Posted:hmmmm i think that maori people just dont wanna lose something that is theirs.
you know, years ago (dont know how many exactly) the ayahuasca could only be taken by an india, and today you can make it from store-bought chemicals.
and the didge, it was something so special, and today everybody does it.
i just think that the maori people want to keep something special for themselves, because they know that whatever is copied by the "Civilized" culture, just uses it for profit.
everything that is copied from "BARBARIC" and "UNCIVILIZED" culture is used for profit.
so i dunno, i dont think that maori woman intended to insult you, i just think she felt bad that something that was made as a tradition is now used to make money =/
BUT, i do poi, and if i can perform for money, i`ll do it! =D but either way, commercializing poi is just wrong.

P.S
people chill out!!!
that AlbertaBoy said something bad? just ignore it, why go all crazy?


Love is Life

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:"Poi" has been created in NZ, "Fire-dancing" certainly seems not to be part of their culture.



So I seem to be firedancing, not playing Poi. shrug



Narrow mindedness has no other potential than to backfire... wink



[edit]But certainly it will not lead me to throw ALL Maori into the same pot... shrug

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1176400033)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Kathain_Bowen


Kathain_Bowen

Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Total posts: 422
Posted: Written by: k8et


there's an interesting discussion here from the maori point of view (link posted by a friend on a tribe.net group)

http://www.aocafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3335



Reading that made me both very sad/disheartened, and truly angry.

For one, the people on that board seem to have just as little of an understanding of non-Maori-non-traditional-poi-like-spinners (is that pc enough?) as many of us have of them. And, just like our one wayward poster who had the comments of their "barbary," the people on that board have their own share of people who are completely close minded and disrespectful to the people outside of their cultural norm. Many of them seemed to be of the opinion that we were all "fake-ass pretentious hippies," or some variation of the same basic insult.

It's interesting to see the differning opinions from both these forums, and it does seem, perhaps, there needs to be a meeting of the minds from both sides. Because, in all honesty, from going back and reading our posts compared to their posts, we're basically thinking about similar things and issues from vastly different angles, fostering negative thoughts on both sides (much as Malcolm and the good HoP people did when researching their usage of the word "poi").

I'm quite firmly of the opinion that culture is a shared and evolving thing, unless you and your culture is completely cut off from.... well.... everything. As different cultures meet and come together, the traditions and ideas also come together and blend. Each culture can bring back something unique and special learned from the other culture.

But, then, I got mad because, y'know what, if people act that way, demanding that nothing be allowed to progress or be shared. In that case, I would have rights to demand that NO ONE celebrate or practice Irish/Polish/native american things when they are not a part of the culture, religion, or society. No St. Patrick's Day. No shamrocks. No tartans. No crests (unless your family has earned one, although, I suppose the same could be said about a tartan). No hunts or hunter paces. No more celtic knot or runes. No more waving the tricolour flag because you feel like it (although, Americans, Germans, and Mexicans, oddly enough, could wave the Erin Go Bragh! flag).

Seriously. People need to sit back, chill, and take a moment to think about the world were all cultures to remain isolated from one another. Think about the things you would miss out on having, as well as the things you would miss out on sharing with others. It puts things into perspective.... at least, it does for me.

I'm willing to be open. Perhaps we should have an open discussion on HoP to welcome traditional Maori to the discussion (since this thread, just like their's does come across as pretty harsh).

meditate


"So long and thanks for all the fish."

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Pinkadelic


Pinkadelic

member
Location: On top of a Nipple

Total posts: 70
Posted:i read this:

http://www.aocafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3335

and they say we are all lunatics!!! woohoo! i knew something was wrong with my head, thanks for clarifying im mad because im spinning poi!

thats crazy man... how come they say those stuff just because we spin poi..

i bet at least one of them drinks coca cola though, and westerners came up with coca cola, so i think they are insane.

cant we all just get along? its a friggin art!!! why keep it to yourself!?





EDIT: man those people really hate us :O

but seriously, i dont think we should pay it alot of attention, they are just some bored people that wanna start some fights... they are even fighting with eachother =/

EDITED_BY: Pinkadelic (1176436931)


Love is Life

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FireByNite
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

FireByNite

Are you up for it??
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 349
Posted: Written by: Original_sly

As I tell them, poi has history, a deep connection for us. It has wairua and whakapapa back to nga atua.

from other forum link



I don't think Coca-Cola qualifies as having 'spirit' 'family', leading back to 'us' (us being westerners) biggrin


Are you up for it?
wink;)

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Thanks for the translation smile hug

Ich persoenlich glaub die haben einfach einen an der Waffel... far away from calling them "Nazi" or "reverse racists"... smile

Get it: BALL ON STRING is not an exclusively Maori heritage...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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DarkFyre
BRONZE Member since Nov 2005

DarkFyre

HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Location: Palmerston North

Total posts: 1965
Posted:Firstly many thanx to Malcom O' wise and gracious one there is nothing you have said that could be argued with.

Second modern poi has evoled from the traditional but has borrowed from many other cultures to grow and develope into this art form that we all know and love.

Finnaly if it wasn't for the time and effort of many spinners across the globe, from many different cultural backgrounds the poi we know today would be far more bland and lack that quality of inspiration that i personally get from it.

All that and I'm quite glad that i have stirred up such an intriguing debate rolleyes


May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear

Total posts: 4693
Posted:its kind of odd really. all my favorite parts of 'western culture' seems to have been stolen and lost meaning from some other culture.

but then i guess no society has ever remained unchanged for long.


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Kathain_Bowen


Kathain_Bowen

Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Total posts: 422
Posted: Written by: FireByNite


I don't think Coca-Cola qualifies as having 'spirit' 'family', leading back to 'us' (us being westerners) biggrin



No, but, on the same token, they don't understand why some of us spin, our reasons. And, on the same token, as I was trying to point out, there are several cultures which have already shared in their heritages leading to a general coming together of the community.

St. Patrick's Day. My ancestors leading up to my great grandmother would spin in their graves if they saw how, in so many cities, St. Patrick's Day has turned into a day of binge drinking and partying. They were staunch Irish Catholics. For them, it was a day of feasting and a break in Lenten fast if it fell on the right day. Right up until my Grandma Mary and WWII, it was still a family celebration commemorating the death of the man who brought Christianity to Ireland and started what they saw as the Irish people. However, it was also part quiet, religious contemplation and prayer in thanksgiving for the same thing. My great grandparents would come back to tan our hides if they new people of all religions were celebrating it as basically an excuse to party and/or drink.

..... then again, my great grandparents would come back to tan our hides for many, many things.

Ladies wearing pants. spank
Interracial communication (let alone friendship!). spank
Young ladies seeing men in a private setting. spank
Young ladies socializing with men outside a respectable family. spank
Speaking your mind. spank
Sleeping in. spank

.... you get the idea. wink

At any rate, as my grandparents discovered, you can have your cake and eat it, too. You can continue to have faith, family values, and the ability to cherish the traditions, while still welcoming the future and other cultures.

It still kind of burns me that they don't have a comprehension of us, or why we do it. In fact, the demographics of people who spin who are not Maori vary so dramatically from person to person that I don't think I could say for certain that I comprehend why we (in general) do it. They say it means nothing to us, but how do they know that?

Mer.

It's a quandary. confused


"So long and thanks for all the fish."

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gita
SILVER Member since Oct 2003

gita

.:*distracted by shiny things*:.
Location: brizvegas

Total posts: 3776
Posted: Written by: FireTom


Maybe your entire intent was to boost traffic to that website (I now decline to click on the link for exactly that reason)... Too bad - I am usually psyched by fire-photography shrug guess it backfired (with me)...



don't worry firetom - you didn't miss much. from what i saw - the fire photography was less than the "stunning & original" claimed by albertaboy. sorry if that insults you ab - but i've seen better.

thanks santa - i mean malcolm - for your post. as always you are the voice of wisdom & reason! hug


do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good to eat!

if at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished!

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear

Total posts: 4693
Posted: Written by: Kathain_Bowen



It still kind of burns me that they don't have a comprehension of us, or why we do it. In fact, the demographics of people who spin who are not Maori vary so dramatically from person to person that I don't think I could say for certain that I comprehend why we (in general) do it. They say it means nothing to us, but how do they know that?





i seem to recall a thread somewhere that talked about (seemingly) the majority of hoppers being middle class and anglo-celtic, might go see if i can dig it up.....



*searches for a bit*



 Written by: NYC

Just as soon as I can tell the difference between you and all the other socially liberal, GenX, pseudointellectual, underachieving, white, neohippies.





DON'T get me wrong. It's almost as bad here (and I'd certainly lump myself in the same group.)





BUT if you look around your metro car on the way home from work it's NOT the same people that are showing up to PoiInThePark or Spitz. Unless the middle aged black women poi spinner troupe only shows up when I'm not there.





Because I'm discussing things like race and demographics let me clarify my point for those that have trouble:





"The demographics of poi spinners in London (and New York for that matter) is NOT a diverse cross section consistant with the larger urban community."





That's my point and I'm stickin' to it.





 Written by: mcp

I was surprised down in london cos there were black spinners. I'd never seen a black poi spinner before.





 Written by: Mint Sauce

humm Iv just got Baak from the BJC and me and bov noticed in the hall there was well over 150 people but not a single black person and so so many more men than women.





 Written by: Dentrassi

also find that juggling attracts mostly nerdy white men (like myself) - but in Sydney we've got quite a large asian community - so we also get nerdy asian kids as well - although they seem to prefer yoyos





in sydney for the SJC i found that to be true (the SJC also hosted the Aust. yoyo champs wink )



 Written by: newgabe

Spinners I have met in Oz vary from geeky to hippie to 'nice', quite a few are Asian, but all are young,smart,and fit.



Then there's me: a dumpy 52 year old with dodgy clothes sense and a propensity to lecture people. Yet I have been so accepted in the spinning scene...Why? cos I like to spin. Can't quite imagine being so accepted in any other 'youth oriented' scene around here.







sooo, not quite about the anglo celtic, but i wouldnt go saying that spinners represent the demographic of the society they're in. just a point i wanted to put out, sorry if this long post makes it look like i've highjacked the thread ;D



but yes, i didnt see where they talked about why we do spin. no it doesnt relate to any traditions of western culture and yes it is a commercial enterprise, but if it wasnt for spinning i wouldn't have met or talked to soooo many wonderful people through HoP. through having a community where we can relate and befriend through a common factor such as spinning and then look at what we are doing and what it means to other people does it not show that we DO care and it DOES mean something to us?



i hope that makes sense...



all above quotes can be viewed in original context here


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Great point Mr. M.

Relevant too.


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Yes, let's go.
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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:yay i don't quite fit the norm

they could be happy that we are revamping a beautiful tradition, so much of things aren't even what they were but things changed over time
like when we sneeze or leave, and what do you tell an atheist when they sneeze or leave ("God bless you" and "God bless ye")
it may be similar to the hippy situation on a nonreligious level
friend traveled with dead and lived with family and then he sees all the kids calling themselves hippies now, they call them trustfunds and birkenstocks, because they see them as liking a superficial part of hippiness or doing it in rebellion to living a wealthy life style of abundance.
or even with us and glowstickers/ravers (remember that discussion smile)


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Helen_of_Poi
SILVER Member since Apr 2004

Helen_of_Poi

lapsed spinner
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Total posts: 412
Posted:It's funny that some of you brought up the St Patrick's Day analogy - when I first read the start of this thread I was thinking about how it really annoys me when I see 4-leaf clovers used as a symbol of St Patrick or Ireland, when they are nothing to do with either (unlike the shamrock, which is). That, alongside the green beer, green milkshakes, green rivers...none of which are dyed here, thankfully.

My point? I'm not sure why, but I get annoyed when people think they understand my culture, and are in some way practicing it and celebrating it when in fact they have it all wrong.

I can understand if the Maori feel something similar about poi.


Helen_of_Poi

EJC Ireland 2006 Organisational Team

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Yeah, I think New York City might have been responsable for the bastardization of St. Patty's day. At least partially.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Posted:kathain, i really enjoyed your responses.

i think the other forum shows that there are narrowminded biggoted people in every group.

i don't think they care that people spin for the most part, just that it's called poi. and i can understand their POV, but don't see how that can be changed at this point. sure, one forum or community could change the name they use, but it would be very difficult to change it among spinners worldwide.

 Written by: Mr Majestik


its kind of odd really. all my favorite parts of 'western culture' seems to have been stolen and lost meaning from some other culture.
but then i guess no society has ever remained unchanged for long.



yeah me too! LOL. but, it doesn't ALWAYS lose meaning. i mean, sure, when something once exotic and spiritual can now be found in target (just a hypothetical), yeah that does cheapen it. but if someone is drawn to it, and researches the meaning, and it holds a great importance in their life.... ya know? so like the poi holds great meaning to a lot of us, it's not going to be apparent to the maori.

cultures are definitely merging more nowadays as the world seems smaller with travel and communication improvements. so yeah, nothing is going to stay the same and isolated very much. but we can still have respect for the roots of the tradition, whatever it may be.

as i was typing this the thought of one of the most isolated communities in the US, the amish/mennonites, came to me. and even with their seclusion, some of them still sell quilts to tourists. does it take away the meaning and "sacredness" (quilts aren't religious, but sacred to them in a different way IMHO)? or does it spread the meaning with joy and love to people who otherwise wouldn't have had such a gift? maybe quilts aren't the best example but this just came to mind....

ok rambling over. gotta get back to work wink


aka hunnybear in burning man circles
avatar: hunnybear - nj - 06/16/07 (c) abjectphoto

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Kathain_Bowen


Kathain_Bowen

Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Total posts: 422
Posted: Written by: k8et


as i was typing this the thought of one of the most isolated communities in the US, the amish/mennonites, came to me. and even with their seclusion, some of them still sell quilts to tourists. does it take away the meaning and "sacredness" (quilts aren't religious, but sacred to them in a different way IMHO)? or does it spread the meaning with joy and love to people who otherwise wouldn't have had such a gift? maybe quilts aren't the best example but this just came to mind....



Quilts may not be the best sign exactly, but they do convey much of the more abstract terms of community, family, and spirit when sewn in certain circles. Now, I'm not certain for the Amish, but Pennsylvannia Dutch quilts most certainly have a very specific set of patterns and shapes to convey different things. Many of the symbols you see on "hex" signs can also be seen in quilts in different ways. =/

However, I definitely see the comparison, but I've seen some of the grandest quilts in person. If you're into quilts, some of the most beautiful, hand made quilt creations can be seen at the Kutztown Folk Festival.

By and by, thanks for the compliment! hug


"So long and thanks for all the fish."

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DarkFyre
BRONZE Member since Nov 2005

DarkFyre

HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Location: Palmerston North

Total posts: 1965
Posted:Back to topic kinda
At work i started teaching one of my maori mates performance poi but with that said he is in his tweens (not a spelling mistake) and is "Gansta" with few connections to traditional roots.

He has left and move on to another job now but he still spins whenever we catch up and i try to teach him a new trick or two (he's a quick learner).


May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:so you're not only "offending their culture" by doing what you do - you even active "infiltrate" them... Now that deserves filthy looks umm

wink wink wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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DarkFyre
BRONZE Member since Nov 2005

DarkFyre

HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Location: Palmerston North

Total posts: 1965
Posted:OK maybe you got the wrong end of the stick

I wasn't trying to draw him away from his culture coz that happened in the 20 odd years before i met him. What i was trying to say is that not all maori object to us spinners and for some it is the closest that they come to their culture since they have grown up in a western civilization. That all said a done it is often these maori that show the most apreciation of our art


May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil

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georgemc
BRONZE Member since Oct 2006

georgemc

Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch

Total posts: 2387
Posted:As Malcolm said yesterday, we are working with Maori organisations and individuals on various projects. While we have heard the stories and read the previously posted thread, so far all the Maori we have approached have been positive about our "modern" poi and what we are doing.

The most acclaimed individual "expert" in the Maori poi world is said to be Ngamoni Huata, author of "The Rhythm and Life of Poi" book (now out of print). We are currently collaborating with Ngamoni on a project and she has seen our Art of Poi & our COL2006 DVD's. She is happy with what we are doing (or at least she is not unhappy or offended), and she is pleased that somebody is doing something positive to advance the arts. Similarly our local Kapahaka group is excited to be collaborating with us.

So we can absolutely report that there are Maori organisations and individuals that are accepting of what we are doing. Of course we believe there are some Maori who are not accepting of what we are doing - just as there are Pakeha (European) individuals who do not like what we do. All anyone can do is be mindful of others opinion and their right to it. It helps to know as much as you can about the topic and at HoP HQ we are working to produce as much material on this subject as possible. As long as we can state that we are doing our best to learn, to educate others, and to record, preserve and further the origins, traditions but also to ensure the future of poi; and that we will do this with appropriate Maori guidance, well what more could anyone do?

I'm pleased to see the discussion and concern about this topic.

cheers
George


Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread

I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
grin

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