Forums > Social Discussion > Maori dislike of performance poi

May my balls of fire set your balls on fire

May my balls of fire set your balls on fire

Are you up for it?
;)

My Mind is a Ship
Emotions become the Waves
Soul is the Ocean

If a quizz is quizzical, what is a test?

May my balls of fire set your balls on fire

Back on topic: dizzypheonix - I hope that you don't have to come across any others like that lady you mentioned in your first post, as every "maori" I've come across has thought it great.

 Written by: dizzypheonix


Now lets never speak of this noncense again or I'll send a couple of the Black Power bros round to your place for some "re-education".




love ya comment

Edit: Oops, sorry for mentioning "this nonsense" again

Are you up for it?
;)

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

For the record, I don't think "AlbertaBoy" is actually the guy that runs that website, I think he may well be a troll trying to wind us up. Could be someone that has a grudge against the site owner... easy enough to hijack someone's identity. All his previous posts have been offensive and designed to provoke flaming.

My Mind is a Ship
Emotions become the Waves
Soul is the Ocean

If a quizz is quizzical, what is a test?

Lads... try not to let this guy upset you...

He's just an arrogant 'boy' who thinks he's the best in the world - why would he need to show respect to anyone else?! Everyone should be showing respect to him

Ignore his posts, horrendously ill-informed, negative and offensive as they are, and just continue with what is a good, and needed debate.

I haven't opened his fire store link, and won't be... but if he's trying to sell fire equipment, alienating a large marketbase such as this one, is probably not going to help.


Anyhows.... NYC... I think that's a really important point...

You treat people respectfully, you get treated respectfully in return... (:))
Cassandra and Dom and Nick are all beautiful people (at least, I still haven't met Cassandra yet... but so I'm told ) and I'm sure they approached any Maori interest with a good attitude.

I think we should care what Maori people think... at least, I do.

These are a people whose land was taken off them by white men with guns (and yes, we could argue that they took their land from the Maoriori.... but I think the difference between guns and tribal warfare is significant).

The fact that now something from their culture is being celebrated around the world is something they can be proud of... if it's done with respect.

If it's some mouthy teenager using it to show off to his/her mates in a really obnoxious way, then i can understand why some Maori wouldn't want to be associated with it.



Anyways... has anyone thought of anything practical - apart from being nice?

Is there a Maori poi meet we could say hello at? Or has that been done already?

x

Getting to the other side

Without Poi in heaven, I won't go!

May my balls of fire set your balls on fire

 Written by: NYC


Was your last sentence an example of "Western Culture's Barbaric Nature"?



...
No, but you're calling it "poi" which is their word for their religious practices and their dance.



I was having a mighty bad day and came to the conclusion that I basically couldn't care less what ANYONE thought about ANYTHING last night. A woman decided to change her very messy baby in the middle of the shop (a grocery store that the day care center is located in). The sheer grossness and audacity of her whole family (a slew of issues) had me very aggravated with just about everything.

I still don't care what they think because, y'know what, I'm not doing it out of disrespect. I'm not doing it to be laughed at our scorned, nor am I doing it to laugh at or scorn their traditional practices. And that's what I was attempting to word, but it came out all wrong. I'm taking the time to try and learn about where the art originates from and treat it as an art. If a Maori, or a person from any culture were to treat me poorly for spinning, I would encourage them, perhaps with profanity, to open their eyes and ears, shut their mouth, and see something beautiful that isn't all that common.

On the same token, I learned how to hula some years ago out of respect for Hawaiian culture. I didn't learn the cheesy hula you so often see in Bob Hope movies. No. I learned many of their stories. However, ten years has blacked out much of my memory, and I can only remember this short, kind of meh one that was our "warm up" dance about catching fish. I still do it sometimes, despite looking funny "casting the net over my shoulder."

Poi, by the way, is also a word for a traditional Hawaiian dish involving boiled down taro root that has been allowed to cook for several hours to avoid causing a sharp burning in the back of the throat and mashed/ground into a smooth, paste which is eaten with your fingers from a communal dish. Just kidding..... on bringing that up, not the burning sensation.

But, like I also said I my post, on the one hand, I do understand that there is a large consumption and commercialization in Western culture of what is considered to be "exotic" and "unique" cultures. I'm hitting friction right now with different tribes of Northeastern America while searching for answers to a family mystery. Why? Not because I'm being disrepectful, nor because I'm curious, but because there have been lawsuits in the last few years of people using DNA testing to force their way into tribes and into their government. I'm being seen as someone how may try to do that, when I just want to understand where my family came from.

.... yeah.... my current dilemma could also possibly be feeding the "I couldn't give a damn" thing, too.

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

Hmmm...

As far as I remember... prime land spots and hunting grounds were sold off for a relative pittance (and guns) by pakeha who were more than willing to take advantage of Maori chiefs.

It certainly wasn't a fair moral exchange, if you do want to apply contemporary standards.

But my point was... it's for the Maori to accept that injustice and let it go... but the spread of poi could be seen as a postive spread of their culture. Perhaps?

Also... I realise poi is mainly kept for ceremonial or touristy purposes these days... but surely there is a female Maori poi group or organisation that could be approached in the right way.

It seems those interested in traditional Maori poi wouldn't be so impressed with someone coming up to them and saying 'hey, let me teach you some new tricks'. Did you ask them about the history of poi first? Or ask them how long they'd been doing it? Or where they learned? Or why? Or was it all about the moves?


And changing the plane of your spin flawlessly is a move I'd very much like to learn...

Getting to the other side

A'Boy: I interpreted your first post as pretty ignorant... your second is plain silly and arrogant, as you find no words of remorse for putting out such idiotic predjudice without personal verification. It's too easy to claim: But I only repeated what my friends said...

Maybe your entire intent was to boost traffic to that website (I now decline to click on the link for exactly that reason)... Too bad - I am usually psyched by fire-photography guess it backfired (with me)...

However, I am a bit sensitive on the "collective guilt pattern" issue unfortunately there are not many white countries that have spilled glory upon themselves for treating others with respect... is there? Any?

Find me amazed that the Maori community seems to be so unaware about what is going on with "their" Poi in the world out there... Malcolm, George... what's happening?

Further, I can't quite comprehend with the idea that I might be violating their feelings with what I am doing and have to reconsider whether I should then continue to call it "Poi" at all (IF that is against Maori understanding, definition and appreciation).

I do not intent to hurt their feelings - if that is what I am doing, I will rather refer to it as "Martial Art". But I do sincerely hope that in the end "we" - as a community - will find their approval.

Never mind the individual

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

 Written by: AlbertaBoy



Please visit, it has some of the most stunning and original fire pictures ever taken of a professional fire performer.







Where?



 Written by:

And as far as your implication of sending me harassing phone calls, it's childish, but most people who are into poi are usually too poor to afford the long distance call so, whatever.





Well, as we're still generalising, I think most people who are into poi wouldn't afford you a call anyway



History of Poi in New Zealand



 Written by: Daisy Hemana

I needed to let you know how we view the poi history. AS Maori people We are not the same across the whole country, we have our own unique genealogies in not only our lives but also our implements and poi. Thankyou for this way of letting me tell you.

"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

OK drawing a line under this whole episode so we can get on with our lives,


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there ya go that's the line, if you don't like his comments ignor him, even press his ignor button, but we have heard all the ranting we need to, and its getting repetative, yes he upset a lot of people, yes he is just plain wrong.....but we don't need to hear it again, we are all forgiving kind people, and lets just move on and hope he doesn't come back


So, Maori people and Poi eh? what is their reaction?

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Are You Sniffing My Mitten?

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To repeat myself: If Maori disapprove of what we are doing, or worse see it as an offence to their heratage and culture, we need to reconsider, whether we are legible to call it "Poi" and "Poi-spinning"... - just out of respect...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Eww, Liza Minelli...

The communists gave my mother a job, teaching sculpture to limbless children.

Are you up for it?
;)

 Written by: FireByNite


I think it's not so much a "bastardized version" but more 2 different art forms.



Right, the "original standardized art form" that the Maori do and the form that took whatever parts of that that interested them and threw away all the tradition, religion, and ceremony that they didn't feel like keeping and instead added whatever the heck they felt like would get them the most attention and hot chicks.

But that's not bastardizing right?

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Fair point

Are you up for it?
;)

 Written by: NYC


Right, the "original standardized art form" that the Maori do and the form that took whatever parts of that that interested them and threw away all the tradition, religion, and ceremony that they didn't feel like keeping and instead added whatever the heck they felt like would get them the most attention and hot chicks.

But that's not bastardizing right?





.... hrm.... I'm not sure I would say that all non-Maori poi spinners do it to attract chicks.

While I'm woman enough to admit there are some hot chicks in the world, I still like guys, too! Sorry all you lasses of HoP, but I don't think I could date a woman exclusively. But I would probably buy you ladies a round.

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

 Written by: onewheeldave


if some trad Maoris have a problem with the type of spinning I do (seeing it as 'basterdised etc) then, it is indeed their problem, not mine.



.... thank you for saying what I was trying to say so well (I said something along the lines of really not giving a damn, but you actually put it in the right sentiment). You have a gift with words, OWD.

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

Feel the Flame
Phirenix

dizzypheonix, this one comes up every now and again, and the only people that can really answer your question are Maori�s. I�d just like to say that in the past the Maori�s who have made contributions to HOP have been very generous with their cultural information. Try a search!



As far as bastardization goes (not a good term, btw) I�d just like to point out that Maori�s have been selling poi to tourists for decades. Therefore, it�s more than likely that somewhere along the line the tourists will start using poi.



psycotic_furby asked �So what would be call it instead?�



Well I heard about fire chains, and glowsticking way before I ever heard about poi.



Cheers folks



PS: Fire clubs have been around for at least 150 yrs, and most of the basic moves we use for poi come from club swinging.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Maori culture is fabulous

Maori Legends are beautiful

Maori people rock

New Zealand is my favourite place in the whole world. There is tension between maori and europeans but its the only place i've ever been where both sides discuss the problems, agree to things, apologise for the past. etc etc.

Maori aren't barbarians. They are warriors. They had to be 'double hard bastards' to make the voyage over here, and then to survive here, resist the european invasion and so on. That lives on in their culture.

Maori traditions are very precise, very specific. One person does a certain thing, the other person does something in return. If either one doesn't follow tradition it can be taken as an insult.

I think the original problem in the first post was that a Maori took offense to someone spinning western style poi on Witangi Day. I can understand this. Witangi Day is tense over here. Lots of emotions. It probably was disrespectful on that day in that place. I don't know tho, i wasn't there.

Overall i doubt maori people as a whole mind if we do something similar to them. From their point of view our poi style sucks. We don't understand it. We can't communicate stories with them.

It's just different, and i think maori people are pretty accepting of peoples differences.

m

Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

May my balls of fire set your balls on fire