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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:Whip moves!



I'm going to assume you're not an idiot, this thread isn't an excuse to go out and hurt yourself to make up a new crack. I don't think I know any crack that deliberately crack towards your body, rather the crack is always directed away. Thou sometimes it will hit me or the rebound from the crack, or on the way to the crack.



Also: WEAR PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT: a hat, a long sleeved top, and glasses. Aussies would recommend a wide brimmed hat, so you can tell if it's close to your face. But the best protection is learning to crack 'softly' and not force the whip. Once your confident, and you know where the whip 'is' in the space around you, you can learn how to crack it loudly and safely.



Here's the single cracks I know (ish - I can't remember the proper names sometimes, clarifications appreciated):



The throw: Starting out from behind you, you pull your arm forward and the crack happens where you point your arm, out in front of you. (as if throwing a spike underhand to a target in front of you)



The flick: from spinning the whip in a circle, you kinda flick a crack out using a punching-esque motion and the whip keeps going in the same direction as it started out.



Cattlemans crack: A typical direction change crack, starts with the whip laying on the ground, point behind you, you bring your arm up and the whip makes a big circle, as it's going over your shoulder, your change it's direction by extending your elbow and the crack occurs out in front of you.



Coachman's Crack: A cattle mans crack but you wait a lot longer from the crack and extend your arm downwards, so that the crack is next to your ear or above your head on that side.



Really there's only two crack's I know, a throw and a direction change crack, occuring at different places, but I'll go on to describe some patterns.



Figure of Eight - a cattlemans crack, and then the back crack version the other way, with a long drag of the whip inbetween.



Volley - (also called "fast figure of eight") Like a fast version of the above, a cattlemans crack and then on the rebound there is an immediate back crack. And so on continuously. (can be high or low or horizontal...)



Cow and Calf - (also called "whoosh - bang") A throw but pulled up after the crack and using that circle to do a cattlemans crack. And so on, continuously. (can be anywhere, high, side to side, up and down or low side to side. probably back hand up and down too.)



Snakekiller: Doing continuous flicks downwards, alternating from each side of the body. (As if trying to kill a snake on the ground in front of you.)



Meg's favourate pattern: Doing a throw behind your body in wall plane, pulling it forward on the rebound into cow and calf and after the cattlemans crack doing a throw from the otherside of the body.



Tasmanian Twist: I seem to recall it being a figure of eight, then you mangle the planes and do what is essentially a cattlemans crack BTB. But it usually points a little more down than normal.



Arrowhead: Volleys, but done in a special way: Volley back on one side, volley in front, and then volley back on the otherside of your body. making a V shape if viewed from above, hence the arrowhead.



Suicide Crack: Volleys, but done with both hands on the whip, in front and behind you, like the standard volley, but this time directly in line with your body, and the whip passes in a circular motion (well it goes forward on one side and backwards on the other) around you, making you look quite insane.





and the double cracks I know: (mostly names from aussie whipcracking competitions.)



The Train:



The cow and calf, in both hands, staggered (not full split time,) with the throw (the calf) a softer crack that the cow. Done so that it sounds like a train.



The Southern Cross:



"A crack to the Front immediately followed by an under the arm crack to the back then over head crack to one side followed immediately by a crack to the other side finished with a kinda helicopter wind up to an emphasized horizontal crack about 45 degrees to the front of the first side again. 5 cracks to different points representing 5 stars in the southern cross (famous constellation in the Aussie sky - as seen on our flag). " - thanks to pyrolific



Simple weave thing:



Continuous flicks out in front of you, from both hands, in a two beat weave. (flicks alternate sides of the body.) Same can be done in the three beat weave.



The arrowhead can also be used in a weave.

EDITED_BY: mcp (1184585329)


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted: Written by: mcp


I don't mind, the tasmanian cutback is really a series of three cracks I reckon, not just a BTB cattlemans. It's more like a figure of eight in wheel plane and then a plane change into btb wall plane for the cattlemans.



I suppose if you're grouping cracks together like that then giving the combinations a unique name kind of makes sense.

Having said that, I've been trying to break down everything into small bite size chunks so I can work out what's actually going on and I'm finding it really difficult because of these names - I've only seen most of them described in text and it's kind of assumed that everyone knows what the more obscure names actually represent.
Yep, very much like poi (everyone knows what a waistwrap is, right wink)

Also, changing planes like that makes me break out in a cold sweat. I suppose I need to get over that wink

 Written by: mcp


I think the victorian cutback looks the same as most other direction change cracks, it kinda has to, but the hand motion to do it is wildly different.


Is it really that different? I reckon it's only rotated around your elbow a bit.

 Written by: mcp


There's only really three cracks, but I thick the cutback might almost be a fourth.



What're the first three?
Throw, Direction change and Flick?


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: TheBovrilMonkey


 Written by: mcp


I don't mind, the tasmanian cutback is really a series of three cracks I reckon, not just a BTB cattlemans. It's more like a figure of eight in wheel plane and then a plane change into btb wall plane for the cattlemans.




Also, changing planes like that makes me break out in a cold sweat. I suppose I need to get over that wink




Heh, I know the feeling. It's pretty wrong.

 Written by: TheBovrilMonkey


 Written by: mcp


I think the victorian cutback looks the same as most other direction change cracks, it kinda has to, but the hand motion to do it is wildly different.


Is it really that different? I reckon it's only rotated around your elbow a bit.




mostly wildly different cos I can't do it yet. It's certainly not the SAME. it's definately a bit different.

 Written by: TheBovrilMonkey


What're the first three?
Throw, Direction change and Flick?



yup.
Only the victorian seems different from all those three. Everything else is one. Including the a river runs through here... or whatever it's called. wink


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Puk
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

Puk

Sweet talented nutter
Location: Brisbane Oz

Total posts: 2615
Posted:Minding i did see a golf swing crack that looked fun for sillyness.

that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk

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FireNix
BRONZE Member since Apr 2001

FireNix

old hand
Location: India/Bristol

Total posts: 904
Posted:fire freaks
Fire whip can be made out of Kevlar rope yes.
I make a tapered Kevlar Whip that really feels like a whipa nd not just a piece of rope nailed to a handle!!
PM me if youre interested
Peas


Feel the Flame
Phirenix

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Konstantin
GOLD Member since Jun 2007

journeyman
Location: Vilnius

Total posts: 66
Posted:Yeah, it's what i'm interested in.
It's how to make kevlar whip feel more like a whip.
thks
Zestianssik


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why
BRONZE Member since Mar 2004

not _Y_
Location: Scotland

Total posts: 720
Posted: Written by: mcp

Tasmanian Twist: I seem to recall it being a figure of eight, then you mangle the planes and do what is essentially a cattlemans crack BTB. But it usually points a little more down than normal.


Anyone got a better description?
 Written by: mcp


I love whips.

I wanna learn the victorian cutback, seems a bit like bovrils weird crack but in a different plane, very elegant crack.

the who'sy whatsit?  Written by: Puk


It sounds similar to the tasmian cut back


shrug


can I get some vague attempts at definitions from people who know things?

Also isn't a "throw" a "flick" from static?


Speaking of definitions it's a bit of a bugger isn't it?
Wanted to type out 2 crack patterns I've been playing with (one a little risky, esp with big whips)... Will have to find the terms at some point and try again.

<waves at PLaY whippers>


You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?" George Bernard Shaw

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why
BRONZE Member since Mar 2004

not _Y_
Location: Scotland

Total posts: 720
Posted: Written by: UnderControlOrFailure


 Written by: a-r-a-s-h-i

i miss the meadows.



ditto

then visit!

I miss it too sadly frown


You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?" George Bernard Shaw

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:Tasmanian Twist (aka Tasmanian Cutback)
Start with a fast figure 8 going from forwards to behind.
As the whip does the second crack, pull the plane from wheel plane to BTB wallplane and do a wallplane cattleman's crack behind your back.
If you're holding the whip in your right hand, the last crack should pop either down or to the left, depending on timing.

Victorian Cutback
Kind of hard to explain. It's basically an upside down cattleman's crack with a bit of a windup beside you.
It's pretty much the same as a coachman's crack but where the coachman's crack is done behind and around your shoulder, the victorian cutback's done a bit lower and with less arm movement, working mainly from the wrist I think.

Bovril's Weird Crack (This really needs a better name wink )
Essentially a Victorian Cutback without the windup.
It's easiest to explain done in wallplane, but that's still no guarantee it's going to make sense...
Start off with the whip on the floor, pointing off to the right.
Pull the whip underarm and up into a clockwise circle, keeping the thong taught as it swings around.
As the whip starts to swing through 10 - 12 o'clock, move the handle end of the whip in a small anti-clockwise circle. This should cut the handle end of the thong back across the rest and make a loop for the crack.

 Written by:


Speaking of definitions it's a bit of a bugger isn't it?




Hell yeah, so much of it is the same except for being rotated or flipped upside down, but then given obscure names.

I really need a video camera - I'd love to film all the variations I know to compare then all properly, but I'd like to do that in slow motion if possible.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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why
BRONZE Member since Mar 2004

not _Y_
Location: Scotland

Total posts: 720
Posted:I think they kinda make sense... need to play with a whip and re- read... as imagining things in your head gets painful after a while!

how does your "weird crack" hand finish? directionally?

Is the victorian cut back the one that's really easy to volley, forming an incomplete circle isolating the loops (in space)?



Sorry if my words have made that worse... am trying to write something to try and make a way of explaining how i think about cracking


You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?" George Bernard Shaw

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted: Written by: why


how does your "weird crack" hand finish? directionally?



The hand would end up pointing to about 10-11 o'clock in the example I wrote earlier.
The thong kind of bounces back anticlockwise when you get the crack, so you can do a reverse straight after.

 Written by:


Is the victorian cut back the one that's really easy to volley, forming an incomplete circle isolating the loops (in space)?



Erm.. not sure.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:What about Monkey's Ass Crack?

As demonstrated in Bristol?!

biggrin


Getting to the other side smile

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:That one definately needs a video so people can see the full glory/horror of Simian's Ass Crack.

smile


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth

Total posts: 5814
Posted:Simian Utube ass crack excellent

Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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chinchillarama
GOLD Member since Aug 2007

chinchillarama

Member
Location: Look behind you...

Total posts: 10
Posted:Do you guys know anywhere in the UK I can buy a decent whip from? I really wanna learn but I know its quite dangerous. confused

Kinder Surprise - The eggs of numbing inevitability

My ruminant is called Daisy

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PinkNigel


PinkNigel

Pinker than thou
Location: A little pink world all my own...

Total posts: 336
Posted: Written by: chinchillarama



Do you guys know anywhere in the UK I can buy a decent whip from? I really wanna learn but I know its quite dangerous. confused





Buy nylon from the states, with the dollar/pound exchange rate at the mo it's cheap as chips...



Rhett Kelley makes a very nice whip, but there's a long wait.

Coyote whips are maybe not as pretty, but work just the same and you get them very quick...



Or convince Bov to make you one...?



...Oh, and of course English whips for roo hide, Jo and Dave are lovely folk who can teach you too...


A wise man once said: "You have two ears and one mouth, therefore you should shut the censored up and listen" (though, to be fair, he might not've put it _quite_ like that..)

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why
BRONZE Member since Mar 2004

not _Y_
Location: Scotland

Total posts: 720
Posted: Written by: TheBovrilMonkey



 Written by: why



how does your "weird crack" hand finish? directionally?





The hand would end up pointing to about 10-11 o'clock in the example I wrote earlier.

The thong kind of bounces back anticlockwise when you get the crack, so you can do a reverse straight after.



okay... am struggling to see how yours and what I interpret as the victorian differ...

 Written by: TheBovrilMonkey



Erm.. not sure.

silly terminology ubblol


You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?" George Bernard Shaw

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:Yeah, it's just a pared down Victorian cutback.

The only other version of the victorian cutback I've seen is on the Mike Murphy DVD and looks like it has a wind up that swings the whip around - I just don't bother with that part.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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why
BRONZE Member since Mar 2004

not _Y_
Location: Scotland

Total posts: 720
Posted:

Don't think Meg's noted that the coachman's can be performed horizontally too... though you have to draw out the whip body into the nice line gravity usually draws



three sequences that I like playing with recently... no idea if anyone'll make sense of these (even those that have seen me playing)



Assuming you're all bearing whips in right hands (tut tut), and doing my best to use existing words



1

Start - thong/body out to right along "wall plane" (I think)

Throw to left (in front of body) with upward (and rightward) hand follow through (like an exaggerated wall plane cow and calf).



[You'll need to watch the whip carefully... so that the thong has not recoiled too far back (beyond your hand position below)]



throw out to right (note hand position is above right shoulder (as opposed to left hip for 1st throw... short people may feel the urge to jump)



There seems to be a slight variation on the 2nd throw:

Where it is directed at a more right and down angle... which seems to feel a little more under control... creating a whiup shape more similar to the "cattleman's".



By continuing the clockwise circle the series can be made continuous... but this is easier in the first version.





2The Stupid One



Take meg's fig 8 volley

turn it to horizontal (wha's that one called? floor plane?)

what about then turning it inside?



BE AWARE THIS IS POTENTIALLY (even more) DANGEROUS (particularly with longer whips)



Thong out behind (and to the outside of the body)

throw with a horizontal arc

the fall should recoil between your body and your hand (NEXT TO YOUR FACE AND MAYBE YOUR EYES! (depending on your aim and control)

and can be thrown out behind by turning the handle over your wrist (and towards yourself)



I have just realised that I have not returned from this part directly and usually continue to the front crack along the outside...

So it's more like an overhead front and back crack that's been condensed to one side of your body.



I have hit myself with this one... but it has only been from the 2nd crack returning to the front... where the fall or cracker can get the back of your legs



3

thong behind

throw forward

pull back and up with your hand (not just a flick back to the underarm volley)... (If you play with poi it is like the arm motion of pendulum 1.5's)

this causes the whip body to cross back over the returning fall end (breifly forming a gamma shape with fall behind and handle leading forward).

Then a second flicking motion into the same initial throw





Words really don't do a good job at conveying things...

Do they make any sense to people?











last minute thought...

I guess that means the vicky cutback/bov's crack can be inverted?





what's Monkey's one?



You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?" George Bernard Shaw

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted: Written by: why



Lots of cool stuff

I guess that means the vicky cutback/bov's crack can be inverted?




I'm going to read that lot again when it's dry enough to have a play outside smile

Inverting the victorian cutback - inverting it in some strange poi like manner or flipping it upside down?
You can certainly flip it - it makes a shape that's remarkably similar to a cattleman's crack.

 Written by:


what's Monkey's one?



The 3 Step Program for Monkey's Ass Crack.
1 - Do a backwards underarm throw.
2 - Now do it with the handle held upside down (like you're holding a joystick) next to your hip with a stance that wouldn't look out of place in a bad western.
3 - Now do it held in front of you so that it throws the whip back between your legs and makes a crack behind you.

Pulling the whip forwards again straight after the backwards flick helps for steps 2 and 3 I think, even though I don't like doing that for a normal throw.

While doing step 2 it's appropriate to face off against a similarly armed desperado with the whip trailing in front of you, pause for a moment to give the tumbleweed a chance to roll past in the background then go for your gun.

You can do it with a forwards throw that goes between your legs from behind and cracks in front. Wear heavy trousers for that though, because almost every time I've seen Simon doing those the fall's bounced back into his crotch.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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why
BRONZE Member since Mar 2004

not _Y_
Location: Scotland

Total posts: 720
Posted: Written by: TheBovrilMonkey



Inverting the victorian cutback - inverting it in some strange poi like manner or flipping it upside down?

the simple upside down... I don't really know poi speak eek


You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?" George Bernard Shaw

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth

Total posts: 5814
Posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNKPIOelTgA


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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ElectricBlue
GOLD Member since Feb 2002

ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra

Total posts: 810
Posted:OK, sorry to bother every one in this thread again.

I got a new cracker from my stock whip but on closer inspection i have found that the lether peice that you would attach the cracker too has been broken off almost right at the point that it is woven in to the whip.

Any ideas on how to fix this or where i could take it to get it fixed? the weaving pattern is too complicated for me to work out so far.

I think i may be able to post a picture of the damage later tonight, if that helps?


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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PinkNigel


PinkNigel

Pinker than thou
Location: A little pink world all my own...

Total posts: 336
Posted: Written by: DarcyFox


I got a new cracker from my stock whip but on closer inspection i have found that the lether peice that you would attach the cracker too has been broken off almost right at the point that it is woven in to the whip.

Any ideas on how to fix this or where i could take it to get it fixed? the weaving pattern is too complicated for me to work out so far.



So the bit you need is called the fall. It shouldn't be actually woven into the whip, but will most likely go through the knotting that finishes the plaiting and appear outside the other end of that knotting apparently looped round the end of the whip. It's designed to be easily replaced as it does take a lot of abuse.
What's actually going on is that the fall is sort of needle shaped, so that the eye of the needle goes around the whip and the fall goes through the knottting at the end. This makes replacing the fall -fairly- straightforward. Bernie from EM brand whips has a dvd tutorial thing called something like "whip cracking and maintenance", which, to be honest, is very dull but does show fall replacement in close-up. A google search for "fall replacement" ought to turn up a bunch of online tutorials too.
If that all looks a bit scary, well then you live in the same country as at least half of the world's best whip makers, find one near you, take(/post) your whip to them, and it'll take them maybe 10 minutes to do it for you.


A wise man once said: "You have two ears and one mouth, therefore you should shut the censored up and listen" (though, to be fair, he might not've put it _quite_ like that..)

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PinkNigel


PinkNigel

Pinker than thou
Location: A little pink world all my own...

Total posts: 336
Posted:Just found this..




A wise man once said: "You have two ears and one mouth, therefore you should shut the censored up and listen" (though, to be fair, he might not've put it _quite_ like that..)

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Skulduggery
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales

Total posts: 8428
Posted:(Jon posting as Skully)

Their taste in music and costume is rubbish wink


Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth

Total posts: 5814
Posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTZg5IdbQYU
br>


in the same vein...with blue flares

EDITED_BY: Gnor (1202871975)


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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CrackinCaz


newbie


Total posts: 6
Posted:Can anyone tell me if there are some cracks that you can get with a bullwhip but not with a stockwhip due to its hinge?

I've been using a 6 foot stockwhip now for several months, and I"m doing pretty OK with it in both hands. I can do forward crack, overhead crack and cutting targets. With my right hand I can get the overhead crack on both sides of my body, as well as a backwards crack (Yes, still a beginner I know!)

But I've recently been trying to learn a heap of new tricks. The most challenging of these to me seems to be the most basic of cracks, a forward throw as demonstrated in the video by em-brand whips (using a bullwhip). Would it be possible that because of the hinge on my stockwhip that this is either A) bloody hard and my technique could use some tweaking to make up for the difference in whip style. or B) not possible, but there may be a stockwhip alternative to this crack??

The reason I ask is mostly because I'm starting to lose hope :-p as well as noticing that in the hundreds of whipcracking videos online, stockwhip crackers tend to have much bigger arm movements whereas bullwhipers seems to be more neat & controlled with smaller arm movements??

Grr. I'm covered in bruises from several days of frustrating practice & would realy like to at least say that I have the basics down!


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PinkNigel


PinkNigel

Pinker than thou
Location: A little pink world all my own...

Total posts: 336
Posted: Written by :CrackinCaz



Can anyone tell me if there are some cracks that you can get with a bullwhip but not with a stockwhip due to its hinge?







Sorry, but no, there aren't.



If it's any consolation, I find stock whips really difficult cos I learned with a bull, there are definite variations in the movements used...


A wise man once said: "You have two ears and one mouth, therefore you should shut the censored up and listen" (though, to be fair, he might not've put it _quite_ like that..)

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the_mods_stole_my_name
SILVER Member since May 2006

the_mods_stole_my_name

travelling without moving
Location: Maghull, Liverpool

Total posts: 1286
Posted:i really need somebody to teach me how to use these damn whips of mine! i'm fed up with the same 3 cracks!

Heilige Scheie, Batman kommt!

Reality is just a state of mind which occurs through a lack of lsd

XxX owned by devilsarmy XxX

O.B.E.S.E.

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:I'll be at southern lights and play this year, I'm happy to try and teach stuff.

Alternatively, there's the british whipcracking convention in Wolverhampton on the 5th of July

smile


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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