Forums > Social Discussion > Australia to ban standard lightbulb
Login/Join to ParticipateSILVER Member
currently mending
493 posts
Location: Bristol, New Zealand
currently mending
493 posts
Location: Bristol, New Zealand
Posted:
Its not often that I feel the need to congratulate the Howard government for anything...
but
The UK ought to do the same... As should everywhere else.
What d'ya think?
Its not often that I feel the need to congratulate the Howard government for anything...
but
Written by: ITV.com
https://www.itv.com/news/world_09b7e74c7547fc994f942ae04231f306.html
Australia is to ban the standard lightbulb in a bid to cut down its greenhouse gas emissions.
Environment Minister Malcolm Turnbull described the move to phase out incandescent bulbs and replace them with more energy-efficient compact fluorescent bulbs as a world first.
He said it could reduce Australia's emissions by four million tonnes by 2012 and cut household power bills by up to 66 per cent.
"If the whole world switched to these bulbs today, we would reduce our consumption of electricity by an amount equal to five times Australia's annual consumption of electricity," said Mr Turnbull.
Prime Minister John Howard said the plan would help all Australians play a part in cutting the country's harmful gas emissions.
Mr Howard has become a global warming convert, conceding in recent months for the first time that human activity is having an effect on rising temperatures.
However he has steadfastly refused to bring Australia into line with most of the world and ratify the Kyoto protocol on greenhouse gas reductions, arguing that doing so could damage Australia's coal-dependent economy.
The UK ought to do the same... As should everywhere else.
What d'ya think?
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Nietzsche
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
Awesome. They're fairly luck over in Oz insofar as they have a low enough population and modern-enough houses, to make this implementation feasible.
Compared to say India/China, where they have a much larger population and much more basic housing in a lot of the place - it would be much harder to implement this kind of thing there.
But, yep, sounds like a plan.
Forgive my naivety, but if they just stopped selling "normal" lightbulbs in the UK so you could only buy energy-saver bulbs, are there any compatibilty issues? Aren't they all pretty much the same range of sizes and all the clever-bit is internal to the bulb?
Awesome. They're fairly luck over in Oz insofar as they have a low enough population and modern-enough houses, to make this implementation feasible.
Compared to say India/China, where they have a much larger population and much more basic housing in a lot of the place - it would be much harder to implement this kind of thing there.
But, yep, sounds like a plan.
Forgive my naivety, but if they just stopped selling "normal" lightbulbs in the UK so you could only buy energy-saver bulbs, are there any compatibilty issues? Aren't they all pretty much the same range of sizes and all the clever-bit is internal to the bulb?
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
BRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posted:
I think you can get energy saving bulbs to fit *almost* any light fitting, but there are some things that they wouldn't fit in to. This is a tiny problem though, and I think it should be ignored really.
That is great news though
I doubt it will do much good, but it might be worth signing this:
https://petitions.pm.gov.uk/lightbulbs/
I think you can get energy saving bulbs to fit *almost* any light fitting, but there are some things that they wouldn't fit in to. This is a tiny problem though, and I think it should be ignored really.
That is great news though
I doubt it will do much good, but it might be worth signing this:
https://petitions.pm.gov.uk/lightbulbs/
There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees
enthusiast
301 posts
301 posts
Posted:
It's rare from Australia as well which joined America in refusing to ratify Kyoto.
It's rare from Australia as well which joined America in refusing to ratify Kyoto.
Walls may have ears but they don't have eyes
SILVER Member
veteran
1,237 posts
Location: Oxfordshire, United Kingdom
veteran
1,237 posts
Location: Oxfordshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
The biggest difficulty I can foresee at the moment, is dimmer switches, they're used in homes all over the place, and energy saving light bulbs just don't work with them, rather than dimming, they don't get enough current to stay lit properly and end up flickering like mad.
Sorry regular bulb manufacturers & workers, your time has come, and though I sympathise, the quicker this turnover happens the better! (Think I'd rather see LED's than CFL's but I've heard LED's may actually not be as good contrary to popular beleif, though I don't know the specifics)
The biggest difficulty I can foresee at the moment, is dimmer switches, they're used in homes all over the place, and energy saving light bulbs just don't work with them, rather than dimming, they don't get enough current to stay lit properly and end up flickering like mad.
Sorry regular bulb manufacturers & workers, your time has come, and though I sympathise, the quicker this turnover happens the better! (Think I'd rather see LED's than CFL's but I've heard LED's may actually not be as good contrary to popular beleif, though I don't know the specifics)
Blinded by Hyperlights, please donate generously 
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
In Oz, ordinary incandescent globes are only really used in homes (offices, shops, buildings, streetlighting, etc etc are all fluro or halogen of one kind or another). I cant see that there can be a huge number of people for whom the change will be intolerable (if their life wasnt intolerable already). And after all, they can install halogen which is still more efficient than ordinary bulbs.
In Oz, ordinary incandescent globes are only really used in homes (offices, shops, buildings, streetlighting, etc etc are all fluro or halogen of one kind or another). I cant see that there can be a huge number of people for whom the change will be intolerable (if their life wasnt intolerable already). And after all, they can install halogen which is still more efficient than ordinary bulbs.
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
SILVER Member
veteran
1,228 posts
Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
veteran
1,228 posts
Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
Posted:
I only get headaches with cheap or old fluorescent bulbs (which unfortunately means in nearly every shop in town, in bus and train stations, and places like schools, doctors surgeries and other local authority buildings, where bulbs only get changed when they fail to come on or start blinking).
It's probably worse in countries where the electricity supply is at 50Hz.
I only get headaches with cheap or old fluorescent bulbs (which unfortunately means in nearly every shop in town, in bus and train stations, and places like schools, doctors surgeries and other local authority buildings, where bulbs only get changed when they fail to come on or start blinking).
It's probably worse in countries where the electricity supply is at 50Hz.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
i get headaches from flourescents
maybe that's why i don't like shopping
so i guess i won't be going to australia anytime soon
i get headaches from flourescents
maybe that's why i don't like shopping
so i guess i won't be going to australia anytime soon
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
SILVER Member
veteran
1,228 posts
Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
veteran
1,228 posts
Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
Posted:
Those slightly blue lamps they put in some expensive cars are the worst. You can be driving along all fine, then as soon as one of those goes past you've got a migraine. I don't drive, so I'm lucky I can shut my eyes.
Those slightly blue lamps they put in some expensive cars are the worst. You can be driving along all fine, then as soon as one of those goes past you've got a migraine. I don't drive, so I'm lucky I can shut my eyes.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
Posted:
The thing with all the flaws in the fuel efficient technologies is that while there were other "cheap" options readily available, no one was sufficiently motivated to refine them.... Or had the resources to really do so. Perhaps now, solutions to the issues can be found. I am really excited that a government would take such an initiative.
The thing with all the flaws in the fuel efficient technologies is that while there were other "cheap" options readily available, no one was sufficiently motivated to refine them.... Or had the resources to really do so. Perhaps now, solutions to the issues can be found. I am really excited that a government would take such an initiative.
"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."
SILVER Member
addict
449 posts
Location: Australia
addict
449 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
Nice idea. I like the light that comes from the fluro ones more anyway...it's more white.
Did anyone notice the pic on the webpage? It has a photo of an incandescent bulb with this written underneath:
"If the whole world switched to these bulbs today, we would reduce our consumption of electricity by an amount equal to five times Australia's annual consumption of electricity" - Malcolm Turnbull
doh!
Nice idea. I like the light that comes from the fluro ones more anyway...it's more white.
Did anyone notice the pic on the webpage? It has a photo of an incandescent bulb with this written underneath:
"If the whole world switched to these bulbs today, we would reduce our consumption of electricity by an amount equal to five times Australia's annual consumption of electricity" - Malcolm Turnbull
doh!
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
These coiled mini flouros don't flicker like the long flouros. They are fine and last much longer. Every time a bulb in my house blows I change it to one of these anyway. No problem.
These coiled mini flouros don't flicker like the long flouros. They are fine and last much longer. Every time a bulb in my house blows I change it to one of these anyway. No problem.
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
We have a few states that are putting this in motion as well. California is leading them in the charge with New Jersey running a close second.
We have a few states that are putting this in motion as well. California is leading them in the charge with New Jersey running a close second.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
GOLD Member
addict
584 posts
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
addict
584 posts
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Posted:
yeah, I'm slowly starting to buy them. I think they're fantastic. Anything to help.
yeah, I'm slowly starting to buy them. I think they're fantastic. Anything to help.
Never hold your farts in! They travel up your spine, go into your brain and that's where shitty idea's come from.
SILVER Member
veteran
1,228 posts
Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
veteran
1,228 posts
Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
Posted:
My only worry is that the mercury in these bulbs is a whole lot more toxic than the tungsten in the old type. They'll eventually end up in landfill, and having those big bulldozers driving all over them isn't going to help it stay trapped inside.
My only worry is that the mercury in these bulbs is a whole lot more toxic than the tungsten in the old type. They'll eventually end up in landfill, and having those big bulldozers driving all over them isn't going to help it stay trapped inside.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
But sweetie, that's a very short trip for you.
::ducks and runs for dear life::
Written by: Spanner
I'm quite happy to leave it there but I think having them flickering everywhere else in the house would send me round the bend.
But sweetie, that's a very short trip for you.
::ducks and runs for dear life::
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Nobody cares about mercury poisoning. Greenhouse reduction is way cooler. You're not going to be able to pick up hot hippie chicks bitching about mercury poisoning.
Besides, didn't Greenhouse Reduction just win an Academy Award or something?
Written by: polarity
My only worry is that the mercury in these bulbs is a whole lot more toxic than the tungsten in the old type. They'll eventually end up in landfill, and having those big bulldozers driving all over them isn't going to help it stay trapped inside.
Nobody cares about mercury poisoning. Greenhouse reduction is way cooler. You're not going to be able to pick up hot hippie chicks bitching about mercury poisoning.
Besides, didn't Greenhouse Reduction just win an Academy Award or something?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Posted:
California also has a plan to phase out incandescents. I'm really bummed about it. Environmentally, I see the benefits and have to say that I support the change on that level. But personally, I'm frustrated because I hate the quality of light the fluroescents produce. It's so cold and clinical and harsh and ugly and makes me feel like I'm in a government building (I actually do work in a government building, and all our bulbs are the fluorescent kind and the light is as I describe).
Incandescents produce such a warmer light. I think I'd rather use candles over flurorescents in my home.
California also has a plan to phase out incandescents. I'm really bummed about it. Environmentally, I see the benefits and have to say that I support the change on that level. But personally, I'm frustrated because I hate the quality of light the fluroescents produce. It's so cold and clinical and harsh and ugly and makes me feel like I'm in a government building (I actually do work in a government building, and all our bulbs are the fluorescent kind and the light is as I describe).
Incandescents produce such a warmer light. I think I'd rather use candles over flurorescents in my home.
taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
I agree with that completely.
When I was researching this after I saw that states were proposing the change, this came up alot. Evidentally, there is still no answers on the table as to what to do with the floure bulbs when they do die. There is (evidentally) research being done on the pollution/energy ratios between the two.
I don't see clearly in floure light. My colors aren't as true and I also pick up the flickering, no matter the size, to the point where too much time in it gives me headaches.
We are planning on as we have to, replacing them in our home except in my craft/sewing room where I have to see color sublties, since I tend to use candles more than lights.
Written by: polarity
My only worry is that the mercury in these bulbs is a whole lot more toxic than the tungsten in the old type. They'll eventually end up in landfill, and having those big bulldozers driving all over them isn't going to help it stay trapped inside.
I agree with that completely.
When I was researching this after I saw that states were proposing the change, this came up alot. Evidentally, there is still no answers on the table as to what to do with the floure bulbs when they do die. There is (evidentally) research being done on the pollution/energy ratios between the two.
I don't see clearly in floure light. My colors aren't as true and I also pick up the flickering, no matter the size, to the point where too much time in it gives me headaches.
We are planning on as we have to, replacing them in our home except in my craft/sewing room where I have to see color sublties, since I tend to use candles more than lights.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
There's actually been quite a bit of progress on "warm" fluorescents. If you check... oh, fine, I'll check...
The two on the right are "warm", the one of the left is "cold" and the second one is incandescent. Not much difference in color or colour.
Non-Https Image Link
Scroll down to "colors".
There are also dimmable bulbs. Actually, I think it's a dimmable system.
Written by: _khan_
Incandescents produce such a warmer light. I think I'd rather use candles over flurorescents in my home.
There's actually been quite a bit of progress on "warm" fluorescents. If you check... oh, fine, I'll check...
The two on the right are "warm", the one of the left is "cold" and the second one is incandescent. Not much difference in color or colour.
Non-Https Image Link
Scroll down to "colors".
There are also dimmable bulbs. Actually, I think it's a dimmable system.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
I had the same colour of light concerns about CF light bulbs until a friend of mine showed me the dimmable CF spotlights he'd put in his track lighting last night...I'm sold.
I had the same colour of light concerns about CF light bulbs until a friend of mine showed me the dimmable CF spotlights he'd put in his track lighting last night...I'm sold.
BRONZE Member
newbie
44 posts
Location: South Florida, USA
newbie
44 posts
Location: South Florida, USA
Posted:
I thought it was interesting that the mayor of Edison, NJ was wanting to ban the incandescent light bulb. The flickering on the florescents do to get to me as well. I wonder if LEDS would work better???
I thought it was interesting that the mayor of Edison, NJ was wanting to ban the incandescent light bulb. The flickering on the florescents do to get to me as well. I wonder if LEDS would work better???
Every Day I add another name to the list of people who piss me off
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
eh - halogen is an incandecent bulb - just higher temp for more efficiency - check the link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halogen_light#The_halogen_lamp
I can't see an argument based on flickering halogen vs non-flickering incandecent..
Id like to see LED lights being adopted. I think they'd already be in use 'cept there isnt any money to be made from bulbs that last 70 years.
still - you can buy them on the internet
I like these ones - and as they are 12V I reckon they'd suit a solar cell application.
https://www.besthomeledlighting.com/product/MR16-12-GX5.3-W-3W-WD
With a decent solar panel and a couple of deep cycle batteries (or grid connect) you'd have virtually free lighting for your (small) home
eh - halogen is an incandecent bulb - just higher temp for more efficiency - check the link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halogen_light#The_halogen_lamp
I can't see an argument based on flickering halogen vs non-flickering incandecent..
Id like to see LED lights being adopted. I think they'd already be in use 'cept there isnt any money to be made from bulbs that last 70 years.
still - you can buy them on the internet
I like these ones - and as they are 12V I reckon they'd suit a solar cell application.
https://www.besthomeledlighting.com/product/MR16-12-GX5.3-W-3W-WD
With a decent solar panel and a couple of deep cycle batteries (or grid connect) you'd have virtually free lighting for your (small) home
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,107 posts
Location: In a test pit, Mackay, Australia
old hand
1,107 posts
Location: In a test pit, Mackay, Australia
Posted:
We've got about 50 of those tiny downlights in the ceiling, recently we replaced all the bulbs with LEDs.
They HUM! Incessently! Since we bought them (at $12 each) the manufacturer has removed them from the market because of the complaints about the humming.
The new generation fluoros are great as they pre-heat which means no flicker, have daylight colour and last forever, however, the environmental cost of manufacture is much higher than incandescent bulbs. I don't know if fluoros still use barium in the phosperescent coating, but the other day Dr Karl on Triple J pointed out that if the phosper got into an open wound, it festers, abcesses and never heals over. A lot more care needs to be taken when handling them.
We've got about 50 of those tiny downlights in the ceiling, recently we replaced all the bulbs with LEDs.
They HUM! Incessently! Since we bought them (at $12 each) the manufacturer has removed them from the market because of the complaints about the humming.
The new generation fluoros are great as they pre-heat which means no flicker, have daylight colour and last forever, however, the environmental cost of manufacture is much higher than incandescent bulbs. I don't know if fluoros still use barium in the phosperescent coating, but the other day Dr Karl on Triple J pointed out that if the phosper got into an open wound, it festers, abcesses and never heals over. A lot more care needs to be taken when handling them.
There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
According to Wikipedia, LEDs actually produce less light per watt than fluorescents. The average commercial LED produces 32 lm/w and the average fluorescent tube produces 50-100 lm/w. LEDs currently in development might be able to get to 80 lm/w, which would make them competitive with fluorescent lights.
The advantages of LEDs are their lifetime/reliability and their rapid on/off time. So LEDs are great for traffic lights because they take many years to burn out (and their failure mode is to get dimmer and dimmer) and because they turn on in a few thousandths of a second. They also don't flicker.
According to Wikipedia, LEDs actually produce less light per watt than fluorescents. The average commercial LED produces 32 lm/w and the average fluorescent tube produces 50-100 lm/w. LEDs currently in development might be able to get to 80 lm/w, which would make them competitive with fluorescent lights.
The advantages of LEDs are their lifetime/reliability and their rapid on/off time. So LEDs are great for traffic lights because they take many years to burn out (and their failure mode is to get dimmer and dimmer) and because they turn on in a few thousandths of a second. They also don't flicker.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I do love my little LED windup flashlight.
Non-Https Image Link
I find that flashlights with batteries require changing the batteries even when you don't use them (as they wear out between camping trips.)
I do love my little LED windup flashlight.
Non-Https Image Link
I find that flashlights with batteries require changing the batteries even when you don't use them (as they wear out between camping trips.)
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
They're good on bicycles as well- the pre-LED bulb lights were crap, running out after a couple of rides.
With LEDs, no worries.
They're good on bicycles as well- the pre-LED bulb lights were crap, running out after a couple of rides.
With LEDs, no worries.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
veteran
1,228 posts
Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
veteran
1,228 posts
Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
Posted:
Fluorescents are efficient once they're running. To strike the arc and get them to light up takes the same amount of electricity as it does to run one for about half an hour. That makes old blinking bulbs, and ones where the gas has started to leak out more expensive to keep using. They're also not as economical where they're turned on and off frequently.
Fluorescents are efficient once they're running. To strike the arc and get them to light up takes the same amount of electricity as it does to run one for about half an hour. That makes old blinking bulbs, and ones where the gas has started to leak out more expensive to keep using. They're also not as economical where they're turned on and off frequently.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
You got a reference on that half hour figure?
I always wonder if I should shut off my bedroom light if I'm still in the house and will be back in soon.
Is that like industrial fluorescents or little lightbulb sized ones too?
You got a reference on that half hour figure?
I always wonder if I should shut off my bedroom light if I'm still in the house and will be back in soon.
Is that like industrial fluorescents or little lightbulb sized ones too?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
SILVER Member
veteran
1,228 posts
Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
veteran
1,228 posts
Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
Posted:
I got that figure from a friend who did electrical engineering. He builds tesla coils, so he knows all about making arcs.
I guess it's the same with any kind of fluorescent, but worse with the big ones. The arc turns the gas in the tube to plasma, which conducts electricity. Until the arc is struck the gas has a huge resistance, so needs a big jolt to get started. I know my UV cannon rated for 400w can blow fuses that should be OK for 700w, as it takes a huge amount to start up.
I got that figure from a friend who did electrical engineering. He builds tesla coils, so he knows all about making arcs.
I guess it's the same with any kind of fluorescent, but worse with the big ones. The arc turns the gas in the tube to plasma, which conducts electricity. Until the arc is struck the gas has a huge resistance, so needs a big jolt to get started. I know my UV cannon rated for 400w can blow fuses that should be OK for 700w, as it takes a huge amount to start up.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
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