PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
PWB and I were taking a stroll down memory lane when we recalled coming across a boy a few years ago who could pick up any side show skill art very quickly, but only to the intermediate level before he plateaud. And when he did hit that plain....he hit it hard and not matter how hard he tried, he simply could not master anything to an advanced level. In the end he was REALLY GOOD at alot of things but didn't exemplify mastership in anything.

I have since come across several people like this. For example, many of them are jugglers.

Although, there are exceptions to this. John (I am sure I am going to screw up his last name) Quigley of Cirque Du Soliel fame has a pluthera of very similar skills that he is amazing at.

Which leads into this conversation....PWB thinks that by taking on Staff, and Poi, and Juggling, etc...it is spreading a person between many disciplines. Not that a person who is completely specialized is better to watch, just not so thinly spread and so can offer more passion and emotion and depth to an art.
While I agree with this..I, however, believe they are all intrinsically related, so while a person may not be a "Master of Poi" or specialize in one thing they can be REALLY adept in many similar arts which lends diversity to the show, as well as emotion and passion.

For example, I think knowing how to do poi made many of the other arts I have taken up much easier for me to wrap brain and body around.

Which would you be...Master of One or Jack/Jane of all trades? Why? What do you all think of this?

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


DJ DantanaBRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA


Posted:
Master of all trades, Jack of none

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!


DJ DantanaBRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA


Posted:
ok, seriousely, I think I am...

Jack of most trades, Master of some.

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!


_Stix_Pooh-Bah
2,419 posts
Location: la-la land


Posted:
I'm a self study student of many and master of none.. I'd love to be *really* good at one thing, but I quite like being ok at lots of stuff - keeps me entertained

I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..


MikeGinnyGOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,923 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA


Posted:
When it comes to these arts, I'm a jack-of-all trades. I can do any of them well enough to get paid for it, but I can't master any of them to a level that I've seen some people.

Then, there are the sick people (like Bam Bam, who nailed a seven-beat weave while claiming she can't poi ) who are Masters -of-All-Trades.

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura


TheBovrilMonkeySILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England


Posted:
To be honest, while it would be nice to have mastered a discipline, I'd much rather be a jack of all trades.
That way, there'd be so many things to play with, I'd never get the opportunity to get even slightly bored with one of them.
Plus, you can steal loads of moves from other people, instead of having to go through all the pain and bruising of making them up

But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
i think as you practice one disciplines, you kind of unlock stuff in the other disciplines you do. Staff, poi, double staff, 3-section staff, juggling, contact juggling, devilstick, unicycle and so on all use similar skills and attributes (balance, wrist suppleness, timing) and sometimes similar feeling moves or tricks.

But also its just a matter of splitting up how much time you have to practice over all the disciplines you do. i find it really helpful to have 3 or 4 different things i can practice so, like Bovril says, i don't get bored. But i can see that i'd make more progress in any one of them if i could just concentrate on it all the time.

BUT there's also that thing about how when you practice something for a while, you sometimes need to just stop for a while to let what you've learnt sink in. If i practice just poi or just staff for more than a couple of hours at most i just start hitting a brick wall.

me: jack of trades, not master of any.

but what is a 'master' anyway?

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


Pink...?BRONZE Member
Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
6,140 posts
Location: Over There, United Kingdom


Posted:
I think Jane-of-all-trades.

I get bored just doing one thing all the time. But i do tend to spin poi more then the others.

Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...


MozyBRONZE Member
*.. If ya can't be Good, Be Good at it..*
147 posts
Location: In Melbourne at the moment, Australia


Posted:
Well i would have to agree with all of you. Yes it would be great to be a Master of one thing such as Poi or Staff also watch a peron who is a Master of these toys like Pele said, However, Been a Master is only been like One handed but you you were a Jack or Jane you are two handed more things you know and can do.
Like most of you said been a Jack or Jane has down falls such as you get to a certain level and can't go any higher (Unless you live for many many years praticeing you will be a Master of all) but in most case that rarely happens

(you could say a newbie) i only know Staff(Short and long), Doubles and poi. so i haven't really experiment with anything else. So i would say that i would perfere to be a Jack of all trades, it keeps the mind from woundering away from me to other places

Like i said before it would be nice to be a Master but i would perfere to be a Jack

Loki

watching the world go by!!!!

Trick ferret on the making hehe!!!!
Everybodyknows me as (TriX)


Raphael96SILVER Member
old hand
899 posts
Location: New York City, USA


Posted:
When I was younger I thought that being a Jack would be good, but as time passed I realized that there were MANY Jacks around and few true Masters.

So now I think its better to be a Master.

Raph

Posted:
Well - I reckon I can do somethings at a relatively high level, Master? Dunno how you define master. Ask me again in about 1 year from now when I've been to Ibiza, Morrocco, France, Germany, Holland, India and All over Aus...and I might tell you I am, or I'm not

I dont see many people doing things with Doubles that I cant do, So I guess this puts me at the high end of that category, however there are loads of technical poi tricks I cant do or I'm not happy with my performance of, and so I guess I'd be maybe ranked: Experienced?

I think its possible to be extremely good at Poi, Doubles and Clubs and maybe a type of juggling, but I dont think there is time in a lifetime to get really good at Load of different manipulations.

Again, the level that you plateau at is also dependent on the amount of work you are prepared to sink in to maintaining skills while you are learning new ones in other areas....I find that I slip a bit in fluidity on poi and doubles if I concentrate heaps on clubs for example.

/ramble

Josh

SpannerBRONZE Member
remembers when it was all fields round here
2,790 posts
Location: in the works... somewhere..., United Kingdom


Posted:
I'm a Jill of all trades but master of...not many.

"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"


SaBBaSenthusiast
215 posts
Location: Madrid, Spain


Posted:
i have thought about that many times, i am clearly jack of many trades, i just can't keep on one thing alone, it makes me feel like i'm missing all the other things. i have thought many times that i should concentrate just on poi, but now i've taken up staff and i really like it, so i guess now i'll concentrate a bit more on staff... i do also believe that by taking up many different toys, they start "clicking in", so you are able to use moves from one in another. let me explain this:

i've noticed that after a short time doing one of the arts, you start learning to do what i like to call "think in that art"(like think in poi), so you just have to think about a move to know if it is possible and how to do it. but that carries the problem that your mind sometimes focuses too much on one style, and after some time you can't think of new moves. when you start another art, you continue thinking like before, until you get used to it. but here comes the good part, because then you open your mind and take different perspectives, so you can unlock features you didn't even believe were possible. this also happens while practicing with somebody who has a completely different style, even better if you have never practised together. you see new moves and show yours, so both of you learn very much.

well, for now i've forgotten where i wanted to go, i hope it doesn't sound too strange...

Don't you destroy your enemy by making him your friend?? - Rev Bem (Magog), Andromeda


PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
I completely agree and understand SaBBaS.
I think that none of these are really all that exclusive as they have so much in common, but if you get comfortable in just the strongest moves of one art and translating it to others you might be missing out on certain aspects of other arts.
ie: Spinning staff in patterns similar to poi all the time and you forget to practice that it can be done contact style as well.

So then, approaching these with that open cross-over mindedness...Do you think then that you can be a Master of Manipulation but a Jack/Jane of the tools in it and not a master of any?

That is, knowing many of the object manipulation arts adeptly enough to be concidered even beyond good, but not any one of them enough to be a master in it?

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


i8beefy2GOLD Member
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA


Posted:
I'm a jack of all trades. Always have been though... I took on an attitude of trying new things a few years ago and found so many things I liked that now its I'll try anything once. However each one becomes a tool and connection to learning whatever it is I'm ultimatly moving toward. I've studied so many religions, and I know a lot about each, but not nearly to the levels I desire, so I continue to read and read and ponder the great books of all them. I have an African Djembe that I play every once in a while, but I still suck at, a bookshelf with books from Quantum Mechanics to the poetry of William Blake, about half unread (I buy books in spurts...). Some would consider this spreading myself thin, but I don't see it that way.

Perfectionism is something I've inherited from my parents, so I tend to stick with something (Although perhaps intermitantly) until I've gotten to the point I desire. However, and maybe this is just me, but I find that if I continue day after day on one thing that I hit a wall, whether in staff/poi or reading, whatever, where I just have to do something else until what I just learned can digest. Then when I go back to it in a few days, I am much better at it, or can comprehend the reading Im doing, much better.

So I guess I'm a Jack of all trades, slowly working up to a master of all trades? Besides, what jot is being a master? Seems kinda egotistical... I much more enjoy the actual learning myself. It is the path not the destination typea thing.

Ningalmember
23 posts
Location: So Cal


Posted:
quote:
Originally posted by MisStix*:
I'm a self study student of many and master of none.. I'd love to be *really* good at one thing, but I quite like being ok at lots of stuff - keeps me entertained
I think MissStix has a great point. There are so many things out there to try that are loads of fun that they must all be attempted. How can I know what that one thing will be that I will master if I dont get out there and try it all out?!?

I see a master as a Guru of sorts they have been doing their art for so long that other people look up to them and consider them a master, but they never consider themselves one. I believe that to be a true master, and to stay a master, one will forever be humble and open to learning always ready to take their art to the next level.

>^o^<


PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
i8beefy2, are we related? You described my habits perfectly and my drive for perfectionsim quite well! It is funny, because it is a dual edge sword. It is something that PWB finds endearing in me and frustrating all at the same time because he does think that I spread myself thin.
Funny indeed!

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


i8beefy2GOLD Member
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA


Posted:
Haha, who knows, anything's possible. Or perhaps we have similar reading habits or something, anyway. The only reason we have our concept of time is because of change, so why fight it by trying to reach a static point above everyone else? The true master is such within the construct of his own abilities. He who calls himself a master is only a novice, but he who has accepted his inadequacy will forever have the joy of searching for that point in himself that anything is possible. And if they trully reach that point they will be so far beyond all human ability that terms like master will no longer hold any meaning.

CantusSILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,965 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom


Posted:
Master of nothing, jack of nothing either.

I can do some stuff that other people say is good. But there's always someone better. A faster gunslinger always comes along to prove himself eventually....


*waits for Pat Garrett to shoot him in the back*

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean


Arcanemember
28 posts
Location: Texas


Posted:
You pose an execellent question Pele!

I've been entertaining for over 15 years now...I had a pretty good 'act' at 17 and have been adding to it ever since...

Currently I include all of these 'skills' in my show:

Juggling (damn near anything, including bowling balls and the odd chainsaw)
Spinning (Poi, Staff, Clubs)
Fire (Eating, Breathing, Spinning, Juggling)
Ventriloquism
Contact Juggling
Stand-Up Comedy

Now then, am I a "Master" at them all?

Nope.

I would only really consider myself to be a "Master" in Ventriloquism and Fire Eating/Breathing...

The rest, I have some REALLY good routines/tricks and have accomplished a LOT over the years, but not obtained the level of "Master" in them all...

I think the best point or question would be this:

If you HAVEN'T obtained Mastery over something, does that mean you should ever be satisfied with your current skill level??

Hell NO!

I may never be a "Master" juggler/spinner/contact juggler, but I'll go to my grave working on it!!

I live by this motto/creed:

It matters very little how many times you drop...

What matters is that the number of times you DROP is always one LESS than the number of times you PICK 'em back UP!

Always strive to be the best!!

Peace

Arcane

...you're going to blow WHAT out of your mouth???????


PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
quote:
Originally posted by Arcane:
It matters very little how many times you drop...

What matters is that the number of times you DROP is always one LESS than the number of times you PICK 'em back UP!


Arcane, I really enjoyed your entire response, but this line the most. As I am striving to learn juggling now especially! lol

However, because you are so multi-versed do you feel that, all this is comparitively of course, you are a master at object manipulation though not of any specific object?
Is that even possible.

And it is a lifetime study, anything worthwhile should be!
Thanks again all for so wonderfully thought provoking replies.

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


Arcanemember
28 posts
Location: Texas


Posted:
Pele wrote:

quote:
However, because you are so multi-versed do you feel that, all this is comparitively of course, you are a master at object manipulation though not of any specific object?
Is that even possible.

That is a very astute observation Pele, and one that I never really considered....

It is definately possible, although modesty prevents me from claiming Mastery over object manipulation...

I prefer to think that I am devote rebel against
Gravity!

Thanks and P-E-A-C-E!

Arcane

...you're going to blow WHAT out of your mouth???????


fluffy napalm fairyCarpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land


Posted:
but I like being satisfied. I like being able to enjoy being where I am at the moment and not worrying or striving for anything more.

I like that as much as i like the buzz of learning something new.

Should we strive to be a master in something? Or just be happy with what we enjoy doing to the level that we enjoy doing it at? hmmmm......

I think the mastery thing only comes into the picture in relation to other people. I am a master at everything I do - to me And I love it. But to others I'm just a jack-in-training, if that! I don't think mastery is important - it's kind of concentrating on the destination too much more than the journey.

hmmmmmm.

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank


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