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Magnus


member
Location: Bath, UK

Total posts: 279
Posted:The Internet is a World of Ends...

If you work on the internet, or use it, or are just interested in how it will shape our lives... read this!


Magnus... pay it forward

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flid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002

flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3136
Posted:it's a load of computers connected together, using the internet protocol. It should also be noted that the Internet (capital I) is one of many internets (lowercase i).

if you wanna read more into it than that then thats fine, but you're looking for inner meanings that arn't actually there.

If you're talking about the web then that's seperate, but the web, contrary to popular beleif, is not the internet.


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Magnus


member
Location: Bath, UK

Total posts: 279
Posted:flid, if you actually read the article, you'll see that everything you just wrote is false.

Magnus... pay it forward

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Or the article could be wrong...

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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the mind gap.


the mind gap.

old hand
Location: Brigadoon

Total posts: 829
Posted:it might not even matter

wherever you go, there you are.

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flid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002

flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3136
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Magnus:
flid, if you actually read the article, you'll see that everything you just wrote is false. actually everything i wrote is true. What is contained in the article is mostly just random bollocks, most likely written by one of the thousands of technical journalists who have no real technical experience, but like to write articles which they think people with little knowledge in the area will read. Many of the arguments it puts across are fundamentally floored, and it is clearly obvious in certain places of it when sweeping statements are made that the author hasn't done their research properly before they wrote it.

There are some points in it which i can't argue with, but at the end of the day, as i tried to put across in my original post, the internet is just a network protocol. If you don't believe me then look up the Internet Protocol RFC.

People talk about 'the internet' as if it is something more than it is, because they get confused between the internet and application protocols that run on top of it, such as http (web), smtp/pop3/imap (email), irc/icq/aol im etc. The internet is merely a comminication medium between computers, it is no more of an entity than the telephone network. Comments such as "no one owns the internet" are correct to a degree, but for instance if the companies and organisations that run the root DNS servers shut them down the internet as we know if today would be f****d. Also if the ip block registrars shut down/ceased to exist then there would be routing chaos. In such a situation then yes, the internet would still exist, but as far as end users trying to look at websites/use email etc, they would have no luck doing so.

I don't claim to be an expert in this field, but i do spend a significant amount of time doing network programming and unix administration. For every good article I read written by someone who really knows what they are talking about, there's at least 20 written by flakey journalists, who just want to sell newspapers/banner ads. Most of what is written in papers about technical subjects is just comical, yet people who read it take it as gospel. It's kinda worrying.


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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:I agree that the article is crap, not even a linear collection of semmingly abstract thoughts about what the internet is. However, is it really _just_ a network?? Quite an understatement, at least in my eyes. Do you realize exactly how much more work is done online now than ever before?? If you wanted to look for a job in another town, find apartments in another town, talk to loonies across the water, share ideas, art, stay in touch with your grandmother for free!?! The internet cannot be simplified simply down to a collection of RFC's or protocols, it is one of the greatest accomplishments of man in the last century..It may be simply a collection of wires on your end, but step outside the server room for a bit flid, people fall in love online every day. More knowledge and information is exchanged through this 'little network' than any library in the _world_..And these are just the tip of the iceberg of what the internet is being used for!! And with an integration into our daily lives so seamlessly that we may forget how $%#$^09-6ing astounding of an invention this is!! I hooked my high school up to the net in 92, that was my first introduction..Simply email, gopher, telnet, and ftp..That alone was enough to put one high school in touch with pen pals in france, russia, germany AND japan, give students access to abstracts at the library of congress, and access to local and national college mainframes!! What we're talking about is something so profound it changes peoples lives, some drastic, some slight, there is no reason to confuse a tool for something more, however..How many of us would have met if not for the net? I just tend to look at the cobweb of effects that something with so much impact has on our world..It's the reason for this tattoo on my neck, of a chinese puzzle box..We'll never know how far reaching the implications of this 'network' are...

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:I am sitting here wondering whether we just read the same article.

The article I read wasn't even talking about the net in technical terms, rather it was addressing the way people use and view the "thing most people call the internet" (please don't kill me, I have tried not to use the wrong terminology ).

It is also looking at the way certain groups in society view the internet, and how they would like to see it regulated. It said that the following groups mistakenly believe the following things:

Advertisers view it as a means of advertisingTelcos view it as something that must be "controlled" and "filtered" in order to be improvedproduces of net chat software view it as a means of getting across their product, in competition with others, and therefore prevent communication between net chat programs.Industries view it as something that must be "regulated" in order to protect themselves and the community
These are all issues that are about free access to information, community space and about freedom from censorship and control (whatever you choose to call this thing dubbed "the internet").

The article goes on to theorise that despite the attempts by certain parties to regulate, free discourse will win in the end. The article doesn't theorise about how this will happen, just that it will happen.

It is a simple message, but not a simplistic one.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Magnus


member
Location: Bath, UK

Total posts: 279
Posted:Ok... the READING COMPREHENSION results are in:

flid: DDurbs: Ethe mind gap: Emusashii: DRozi: A+
Rozi gets today's merit badge for her reading skills. She also gets a hug, for agreeing with me. For her open, spiritual perspective, she gets a life of harmony and peace.


Magnus... pay it forward

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Glad you aren't taking this too seriously and are open to some critical viewpoints

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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flid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002

flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3136
Posted:Magnus: Do i get extra allowance for the fact I'm dyslexic? Surely we could push that up to a B....

musashii+Rozi: Oh I agree. I was pointing out more that people get confused between the internet and the protocols that run on top of it. In actual fact many of the protocols which run on the Internet were designed to run on top of other protocols, the internet is just the one they've ended up being used on. People also often think that the internet is the only type of global network protocol ever invented. The reason in my first post that i made the destinction between the internet and the Internet, is that the Internet has become a term these days, by popular use, for the whole thing put together.

The result of the Internet's existence has brought a lot of benefits and as it is something which people these days spend a lot of their time using, I'm not suprised that people feel the need to write about it on a more, for want of a better word, spiritual level. For instance, it's easy to think of a forum such as this as something more than a set of webpages, but if it is, it is at a more abstract level than the physical. An 8th OSI layer?

People who are overwhelmed by the many wonderful things which can be achieved by use of the internet suite of protocols often start during conclusions about the origins of this mystical medium. Without doing research, it breeds a culture of nonsense. It's like car drivers who start making statements about engine history and their design "engines were invented in 1971 by Bob, and nobody owns them, the government doesn't control our engines!". Politicians are perhaps the worst culprits of the lot "By the end of 2001, Britain will be at the forefront of the Internet!" (how do i turn this thing on again?). Its ironic really, considering how much information is available on the Internet about its origins, people writing articles often seem search engine impaired. Internet mysticism caused a boom in the telecoms industry several years ago when suddenly every company wanted to be an ISP and threw obscene amounts of money at making websites - "Amazon did it, so I'm going to make millions from the internet too". Did they really think it would last and be everything they thought it would?

I've got no problem with people thinking and writing about this stuff, I'm not just looking for an argument, why should I? Infact I find a lot of it quite interesting and thought provoking. But when they try to get technical on you and clearly don't understand the technical aspect of it enough to be making the statements they are, I get very warey. It's like anything, being a mountain walking doesn't qualify you to start making sweeping statements about geography, unless you actually have experience in the area of geography, or at the minimum done some good research. If you don't, you may well entice the average reader, but you won't win over anyone with even a basic knowledge of the subject.


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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:@ Durbs, no doubt, I didn't know there was going to be a test after class

Ah well, I'm always makin bad grades

Ok, flid, I see what you're arguing now..More semantics, kinda like when one of the spice girls said somethin like "oooo, I want an internet, can I have one?"..gotcha, hearing that does rub me the wrong way too..AND hearing people start to piece together technology terms, usually incorrectly at first Not bein an elitist, but it'sa funny like conversations overheard at our shows sometimes 'well I can blow you on but then that means I can't put that in my mouth', etc The article still sucks tho, I know middle school kids that could piece together a paper better than that , tho I appreciate the topic, somethin quite dear to meh


First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:You're all wrong, the internet was invented by the army to share porn and hurl anonymous abuse at people they don't like

But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:so really it hasn't moved far from its origins?

So do you think the internet is a free resource? Is it an elite one? Will it remain free?


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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the mind gap.


the mind gap.

old hand
Location: Brigadoon

Total posts: 829
Posted:nothing can be free that has to be paid for

wherever you go, there you are.

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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:freenets exist the world over..Used to spend hours on mushes and using lynx(text www browser) back in the early days of the web, on a freenet in South Carolina . Organizations are working to provide free access, and have acheived it in even most MAJOR US cities(via wireless). This keeps it in the hands of everyone, as it should be..I'd say it was an elite resource in it's infancy, but software companies, hardware companies, telecoms, etc are all trying to make accessing the internet easier by the day. It's in their best interest to do so..Will it be free? Hmm, I believe that the internet has pushed freedom of information speech, and personal expression beyond any boundaries, that will never change. The problem is privacy..True privacy/anonimity online will be non existant except for the elite, in a way as it is now. Elite defined as those with knowledge, not power or money..Profiling has existed for a while(via double click and any company that conducts business via the web), and again it's in each companies interest to find out exactly who their customers are, what their interests are, where their from, etc etc..Standard advertising demographics extended to the internet..How far these companies should go in obtaining this information will be worse in the future, and it will be up to the individual if they choose to fit into this structure; most will. Most people assume if their doing nothing wrong then it's ok to give out personal data to the nth degreee with no worries. I'm a huge proponent of privacy, crypto, and anonymous internet access..One big problem existing is that the 'war' on terrorism has creeped online(via carnivore, echelon and others), and so true privacy online is gone, most likely for good, again unless you know the right steps to take.

[ 19. April 2003, 06:40: Message edited by: musashii ]


First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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