Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > *UPDATED atomic tangles: butterfly changing and hookovers.

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:hi



bit more theory to drop into the mix...





for years I have been doing a backward butterfly overhead tangle that comes out in forward butterfly. with no idea how i was doing it.



whilst messing around with mesh atoms ( see here for desciption of "mesh" state. ) I remeber ed taling a while ago about catchup loops, which is when you make one poi spin faster than the other to make them tangle, rather than interfearing with thier planes.



so, I aplied this to an inside mesh atom.



as we all know when you hyperloop and aton it switches the planes by ninety degrees. so if you have a mesh atom, do a catch-up hyperloop on the outside, the planes flip and it unwinds on the inside, much like an airwrap.



for the front obsever a mesh aton looks like a butterfly (only at the front, looks like a weave from the side). when the planes are switched by 90 degrees then it looks as iff the butterfly has changed direction, feels like it too.



***update***



another thing ive found recently goes a long way to explaining butterfloops and 4 beat airwraps.



when doing a fully atomic clash airwrap when the planes swich inside the leading poi can be made to imadatly re-wrap/tangle the other poi. it looks and feels like its hooking over the other poi and dragging it forward/back again. hence the name.



its the same thing when you do a 1st degree buttfly tangle, you can either make it retangle at the bottom or untangle, bepending on what you do with your hands.



whilst helping me understand more things this tangle raises some questions...



if its behaving like a 1st degree buttterfloop then can it be made as a second degree? normally this would involve some crossing of your arms, but in atom you change state when you cross one arm over the other...





hope peeps understand this



I will be around for clarifications tomorow.



big love,



T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:For someone who was dismissing poi as piece of pish you REALLY are starting up your fair share of poi threads... tongue

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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Acciaio
Acciaio

Tangled into my spins

Member Since: 3rd Jan 2006
Total posts: 187
Posted:I was trying it and...
I think you can maintein the poi tangled toghether...
with butterfly(normal) HL you can go to the inside plane and come back on the outside plane both (maintaining or not the tangle) I think sch as for this atom you say....

or I'm wrong?

Acciaio devil


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TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:As i understand it, Mesh Atom is the one that doesn't tangle, the other one is the one that does Tangle, if you spin 1 poi fast to make the atom tangle then i don't see how it's Mesh ????

Anyhoo, sounds like fun, i do my atomic tangles a little differently, i enter and exit the tangle normally, but keep the poi in atomic planes whilst they are in the tangle.

cool stuff,

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:yep, me too..... *confused* and my bfly tangle over the head comes out as it went in... er....

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:yes. to all.

accio. the butterfly tangle behaves like this, but im not really talking buterfly tangles here, im talking mesh atomic. Ive not really found how to maintain (i.e. buzzsaw tangle style winding-unwinding) an atomic tangle apart from really messing around with oli'ing.

Matt. Mesh descibes the interaction of the planes at the point of intersection, not if they actually tangle or not. there fore you can have a clash atom that dosnt tangle (called a crane) and a mesh atom that does (catch-up loop). Im not sure what you mean about entering normally but looping atomically, id love to see a video. maybe its like what i was saying about oli'ing with atomic planes?

blue. its a matter of plane controle, have them flat enough and you enter and exit the same direction, atomic enough and they should flip. Ive noticed if i bounce a butterfly tangle over my head and back coming out the same direction the planes become much more atomic anyway.

I think the swich happens naturally over the head with a backwards bf, but a forwards bf naturally comes out the same direction. this is because the point you should be tangling for a forwards atom to switch is behind you (pointing away behind you), wheres a backwards atom you want to tangle when the intersection is pointing away infront of you.

not so very clear.....

oh well.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:i want a good video-who has a link

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Acciaio
Acciaio

Tangled into my spins

Member Since: 3rd Jan 2006
Total posts: 187
Posted:I was trying it...and for me i s more confortable in backward...

Not such clean but I think that is atomic enought wink watch and answare...

Tom the feel that I have doing this move (is the same from two diffrent point of view) is exactly between eternal tangle buzzsaw and butterfly... manipulating plane as you can realize from that is quite simple to go into butterfly or into eternal reverse buzzsaw...



But see this:



http://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14995
br>


and let me know if I'm wrong!



Acciaio devil



p.s.

I don't know what you mean for "oli'ing"...sorry...


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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:yeah its a catchup, but i dont thing its changing directions because you bounce in then out again.

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Acciaio
Acciaio

Tangled into my spins

Member Since: 3rd Jan 2006
Total posts: 187
Posted:@_@

Can you explain me better this concept pleaz...my english is not so good...

Thanx

Acciaio devil


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TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:haha,

there's a brief clip of me doing an atomic tangle at the end of track 15 on the sphercular vision dvd wink filmed the last time i was at brJC.

That was the same year i managed to spin 2 diabolo 'atomic' ie on crossed planes, it's pretty weird.


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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any_suggestions
enthusiast
Location: wales,llanelli in the south
Member Since: 8th Sep 2005
Total posts: 238
Posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_ecfygIC_E
br>
if you watch the beginning of this vid,im doin the trick i think you are on about.let me know!


to many freaks to little circuses!

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:ooooo very cool, i think i will try maybe

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:Sweet smile

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:that you tube vid is a butterfly airwrap that moves into a sort of atomicish hyperloopy thing yeah smile
try to go straight into the move from an atom without pulling it from the bfly airwrap... then play with the timing and crane it and you may encounter what the boys are talking about here smile


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:at least someone understands.

for me its all about the phenomenon, you bash your poi toegther in random patters untill you find something new, then you replicate it untill youve seen it enough times (for me thats a lot of ties) to understand whats going on with it.

anyway, ive updated the main post, have a look.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Acciaio
Acciaio

Tangled into my spins

Member Since: 3rd Jan 2006
Total posts: 187
Posted:About airwrap I have to work on it...
About buttterfloop I'm not sure about terminology @_@ but as you know I really agree about the fact that you can maintain or not the tangle going inside (maintain or re-catch ...I have to think a bit about it)...

But sure that your work is a great begin for working on atomics HL wink

Thanx a lot!!

Ciao!

Acciaio devil


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