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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted:so ive been following the tweens thread and quite frankly it really pushes my buttons, so much so that i have lots a couple of nights sleep over it. It got me thinking that while parents are partially responsible so is society, there are some things that are clearly wrong, for example children cant buy pornography. Adults are free to make whatever choices they want but kids are kids and need guidence.

I spent alot of time thinking about how this sort of thing could happen, and really it boils down to some marketing guy went ubbidea if well tell young girls to dress like whores and behave like bratz we can make lots of money, which quite frankly is messed up. The government not really caring allows it to happen and the marketing ppl are answerable to no one. But thats not the way the system should work, the government is duely elected to represent the people, and if the whole tweens thing gets me upset enough to do something about it im sure that there are lots of other ppl who will to.

Whats that i hear you say apathy? the idea is to make it so that people only need to send 1 email or make one phone call to help bring about a change. So the plan then is to set up a mailing list whereby people register once a critical mass is achieved the government will be requested to immediately have items that are clearly innapropriate (ie pushup bras for 8 year olds) items from shops. When they say no an email will be sent out requesting each person to email/phone their designated government official.

This will effectively voice the ppls opinion and bring the respective departments to it knees as email servers get flooded (and the filters wont be able to stop it as each email will be unique and not fit spam filters, as it will come from lots of different ISP's they wont be able to block the subnet the emails are coming from) due to the reliance of gov/business on email they will need to read through each one to ensure they dont miss the work related ones

So this only provides a partial solution to the problem, the next step is to reeducate children and parents. Ive organised a couple of meetings with some of adelaides movers and shakers to flesh out ideas on how to do this and will post more as it progresses smile

In the mean time what I would like to ask is that ppl who have a little bit of spare time and would like to see change to do a little research into non-newspaper stats and studies, into things such as.

Psychologists views on the tween phenomenon
Studies into the relationship between childrens behaviour and the toys they play with
Sales of g strings/padded bras for children
Who approves such products for sale
Innappropriate toys/clothing and the appeal to pedophiles
Studies on drug use in children (particularly primary school)

If you would like to get involved and do something please post links/papers/etc here or email benjobia at yahoo dot com dot au smile


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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The Tea Fairy
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...

Total posts: 853
Posted:I haven't read this one, but here's something about adolescents and risk: http://jama.highwire.org/cgi/content/abstract/278/10/823
br>
google scholar is probably the best way to find the studies you're after. Good luck. smile


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The Tea Fairy
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...

Total posts: 853
Posted:Here's another relevant one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...p;dopt=Citation
br>
Unfortunately a lot of studies on the web will only give access to abstracts if you don't have a subscription.


Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

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Posted:Hey Ben-ja-men,



I definitely agree that this problem is worsened by our apathy. I am not sure I agree with your proposed solution, however.



I think advocating for legislation against selling "inappropriate products" to children fails to address the underlying causes of the problem.



Even were we to write letters directly to the marketers (instead of the government) and put pressure on them, it would not resolve the problem. The root causes are broader and more complex. What we should really be aiming for is to change our society such that it removes the "market" for these products.



I am not going to get into a diatribe about parenting. Too me it is a role so demanding and hard that I may never have children. However there is definitely a role for parents in saying "no" to children's demands for this clothing and these products.



There is a role for the media, for television and for movies in presenting more rounded role models for children and adults of both genders. There is a role for schools in doing the same.



There is a role for each of us in being the kind of adult we would want the children in our community to grow up into (eg. not one solely concerned with appearance and "winning" the opposite sex). And in each of us who have dealings with children, passing on that message.



With this last part, women need to pass on the message that dating and marriage is not the only prize for a young woman, that there are other things to live for. And men need to pass on the message to young females that when it does come to boys and dating it is not just the size of their boobs that is prized.



When I was in school, we had a careers visit from a woman in advertising. She appalled me and other students by stating that if selling a domestic product she would always depict a housewife rather than a househusband or a couple sharing household tasks equally. The reason why? because that is how the majority of people lived and therefore it was the biggest target market. That was over ten years ago, and little has changed. Until we reach a critical mass, where more people follow different lifestyles, advertising will remain the same. The same goes for the "tweens" problem, we need to change ourselves first before advertising will change.



edited for clarity


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia

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Posted: Written by: Rozi



There is a role for each of us in being the kind of adult we would want the children in our community to grow up into (eg. not one solely concerned with appearance and "winning" the opposite sex). And in each of us who have dealings with children, passing on that message.

With this last part, women need to pass on the message that dating and marriage is not the only prize for a young woman, that there are other things to live for. And men need to pass on the message to young females that when it does come to boys and dating it is not just the size of their boobs that is prized.




Great idea, how do you propose we implement that en mass?

Ben's proposition is practical, achieveable, and will most likely eventually lead to a change in society's attitude.

*sigh* disclaimer: *defeated tone* not meaning to offend anyone, just pointing out that change in attitude won't happen by magic and ben's proposition is a step toward the goal here...


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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Rozi
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Posted:smile If you had this conversation with me in real life, you would probably find I had more of a defeated tone than you!!

I agree that Ben's suggestion is geared towards getting a visible result first, followed by a more effective change. However I would argue that even with public pressure, it is unlikely that the government would pass the legislation suggested by Ben. It impinges too much on free trade and free speech and would be too complex to enforce.

If a publically visible action is what you are after, then I would suggest:

Writing letters to papers and to magazines (esp such as cleo)
Writing articles in parenting magazines
Starting an interest group to fundraise and promote through its own advertising (and potentially lobby advertisers)
Other more creative suggestions that I just don't have right now


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

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Posted:my defeated tone was mainly cuz i've had to put disclaimers on nearly every post i've written today cuz everyone's so uptight and easlily offended lately... apparently people even got offended at one of my disclaimers... go figure...

that is a much more productive suggestion than your last, perhaps if we did both it would be even more effective...

and i'd probably target dolly and girlfriend, more than cleo and cosmo, as the latter two seem to target more of your 20-somethings... but then, perhaps 20-somethings should be setting an example?


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted:The Tea Fairy: thanks for posting the links smile im waiting for the uni to sort out its access, in theory they have it but it doesnt seem to work shrug

 Written by: Rozi


I think advocating for legislation against selling "inappropriate products" to children fails to address the underlying causes of the problem.


I completely agree it is a bandaid measure, I see it as a first step to helping remove external influences on children that are counter productive

 Written by: Rozi


The root causes are broader and more complex. What we should really be aiming for is to change our society such that it removes the "market" for these products.


I agree im currently researching how best to reeducate children (currently leaning towards educational software to help them do better in school via interactive tutor/animation to remove social barriers/lack of 1 on 1 teacher student interaction --> better self estime and more life options and opertunities)

 Written by: Rozi

There is a role for the media, for television and for movies in presenting more rounded role models for children and adults of both genders. There is a role for schools in doing the same.


I agree I am taking the approach of picking your battles and concentrating on results rathering than trying to tackle the whole problem at once.

 Written by: Rozi

Until we reach a critical mass, where more people follow different lifestyles, advertising will remain the same. The same goes for the "tweens" problem, we need to change ourselves first before advertising will change.


I believe most ppl when presenting with the reality of the tweens problem find it to be immoral/wrong/insert word of choice here, but to take on a giant corperation is an immense task hence appathy sets in and nothing changes, I believe that by coordinating ppl to voicing their disapproval change will result if done correctly.


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted: Written by: Rozi



However I would argue that even with public pressure, it is unlikely that the government would pass the legislation suggested by Ben. It impinges too much on free trade and free speech and would be too complex to enforce.



I disagree children cant buy alcohol or cigarets it has nothing to do with free trade or free speech but with what is appropriate, i dont believe gstrings and padded bras for 8 year olds should be permitted.

EDITED_BY: ben-ja-men (1168499669)


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

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Posted:I think mainly we are on the same page. And I also agree that it is about picking your battles. Its just that we disagree about which battles we believe are "winnable". I honestly don't think you can win on the legislative front. To my mind the definition of which products are inappropriate (as well as the dilemma of what age to begin enforcing this) is just too complex.



I am sure that those considering the legislation would also be fearful of setting a precedent for other products. For example using similar reasoning, just taking it further, people could legislate againt the sale of condoms and dental dams to people under the age of 16 due to age of consent legislation. Whilst we would hope that the very young would not be sexually active, such legislation would have health implications for 14 and 15 year olds who may be sexually active.



So whilst wishing you all the best, I would have reservations about supporting such an endeavour. I have doubts about the likelihood of it succeeding, and I have concerns about the precedent it could set, however well intended.



 Written by: FoxInDocs



that is a much more productive suggestion than your last, perhaps if we did both it would be even more effective...







wink glad it meets with your approval.



However I would also argue that my original post was outlining some important and effective measures. Even if they do not meet your need for direct action. To me, being a positive role model for young women in my life is as effective, if not more effective, than sending a letter to Dolly. You have heard the phrase "charity begins at home"? Well taking action on such initiatives begins at home too, with being a good parent, or just a responsible member of the community. I know it doesn't sound big and dramatic, but it is an important building block of change.

EDITED_BY: Rozi (1168510689)


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What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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acidchild
BRONZE Member since Jun 2006

acidchild

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Location: , USA

Total posts: 117
Posted:The problem was created by a money driven materialistic culture. As Terrence Mckenna culture is not your friend.
Kids are raised to day with the idea that to be happy you must have the fastest car, coolest shoes, "most attractive" mate, and so forth. Much of this prolly comes from the media, and wih many familys liveing off of two incomes parents are less involved with raising childern than in years past. Leaving kids to turn to television, magazines and internet to in essence raise them from many times very young ages. Some parents are even reinforceing this, prolly because they belive this themselves.
True it should fall on to the schools to try to curb theese ideals in childeren. But as atoritative figures this is harder than it sounds ( think about how much effect it would have had on you at that age). And with many parents working longer hours they have less time to truely influance their kids. Granted government intervention seems like a good idea, but with many of the companys produceing theese types of clothing paying for govenment officials canidacys I don't think it will be possible to put that through. I belive this to be much of the reason ciggarets and alcahol are stil legal despit their yearly death rates being higher than meth and opiates, and more than double that of extacy but that's another tangent all together.
I think to really change this problem we have to change the culture as a whole. This in it's self is a huge task. The heads of magor coperations care only about money so to change that demand would have to change. As our society is strongly lead by this at least as far as teens and young kids go, the way I feel to start this change is to change our selves. The media and markets look at what is happining within the twenty something age bracket, young teens and tweens seek to be like what they belive late teens (17-19)and twenty somethings are. look at the effect the hippy movement had in the 60's on the culture. Much of the market is aimed at this age (17- 29) group, They feel we have the most money to spend on products and there fore market towards us (late teens and twenty somethings). In other words what this age group buys is what they sell, what sells to us influences what sells to younger kids. Granted passing a law will have some affect, but changeing the culture is what is really needed.


Too many secerets are locked in side your minds, but your all equal in life, equal in love. your all building castels in the sky dreaming of a better world.

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The Tea Fairy
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

The Tea Fairy

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Posted:I'm inclined to agree with Rozi, a lot can be acheived at grass-roots level by building up an awareness/interest/campaign group and then moving on to make changes within communities. I have some reservations about the legislation approach similar to what Rozi has indicated. It would be far easier to get inappropriate clothes and items banned from school playgrounds and in homes, if you can convince parents and teachers of the problems such items can cause.

I think it's also really important to provide other, better things that kids can get excited about and that have the potential to become fashionable among young kids, like getting involved in sports and outdoor activities or other hobbies that they can spend their time and money on, so they can learn to develop a sense of self-worth that doesn't just rely on body image.


Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted: Written by: The Tea Fairy


a lot can be acheived at grass-roots level by building up an awareness/interest/campaign group and then moving on to make changes within communities.


I agree I think that such work is necessary to help fill the void. Im by no means saying that getting legislation passed is the solution but instead a starting place. Having a email list with options to be contacted about involvement in awareness/interest/campaign groups would be a great way for ppl that want to do more to become easily involved and have a low cost of organising/coordinating

 Written by: The Tea Fairy


I think it's also really important to provide other, better things that kids can get excited about and that have the potential to become fashionable among young kids, like getting involved in sports and outdoor activities or other hobbies that they can spend their time and money on, so they can learn to develop a sense of self-worth that doesn't just rely on body image.


i definately agree, the idea of young girls having ppl like paris hilton as a role model is very frown it definately requires some alternative figures to fill the void


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

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Posted: Written by: Rozi


To me, being a positive role model for young women in my life is as effective, if not more effective, than sending a letter to Dolly. You have heard the phrase "charity begins at home"? Well taking action on such initiatives begins at home too, with being a good parent, or just a responsible member of the community. I know it doesn't sound big and dramatic, but it is an important building block of change.



i dont have any young women in my life to be a role model to. i'm not a mother, nor an aunt, nor an older cousin or sister, nor do i work or play with or around children. i don't think for me that "taking inititives at home" would be very effective.

Disclaimer: not offensive, defensive or anthing other than conversational in tone, please read as such. *sigh*


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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Rozi
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Posted:Fair enough. (btw, disclaimer possibly unnecessary in this instance. smile no need for *le sigh*)

I am not a mum, but I sometimes deal with my friend's children and children in my brother in law's family. I also get to run into a lot of kids cos I spin poi and hula hoop. Lots come up and ask questions, and I really enjoy being a strong woman with an interest other than make up and clothes. So it is very relevant for me.


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=Flashpoint=
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

=Flashpoint=

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Posted:I'd first like to say that, once again, this is not meant personally to anyone, just a thought.

Have "you" or anyone "you" know actually gone and done any of this?

No response necessary, just pointing out that we do really need to be in the right place at the right time...

Put yourselves in that place, and change is inevitable.

I'm emailing the local council and my MP right now. I urge you to do the same, and lets do stuff.

Cheers smile


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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

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Posted:i would... but i've just worked 11 hours and i can hardly be assed to get up to walk to my bed let alone composing letters.

"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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=Flashpoint=
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

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Posted:Fair enough Foxy... smile

ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!
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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

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Posted: Written by: ben-ja-men


I disagree children cant buy alcohol or cigarets it has nothing to do with free trade or free speech but with what is appropriate, i dont believe gstrings and padded bras for 8 year olds should be permitted.



I disagree, Ben. Alcohol and tobacco are dangerous drugs that are unhealthy for children to consume and cause direct harm. Children also do not have the mental facilities to make decisions regarding consumption of these substances.

Clothes are different. We can argue all day about the harm caused by wearing G-strings and such at age 8, but there is no direct harm. Oh sure, I agree it's wildly inappropriate by our cultural standards, but in other cultures it's appropriate for kids that age to run around in all sorts of dress, ranging from burka to bare-arse-nekkid.

I don't think it's the job of the government to parent kids. I think that it's the job of parents to parent kids. Every day I see children dressed in a way that I believe is inappropriate for them, but I also have to take into account the cultural background of their parents. So when I see a 6-year-old in baggy jeans, an oversized baseball cap with corn rows and a du-rag, I have to accept that his parents are dressing him that way and that really, all he wants to do is go play just like any other kid his age. And I don't think that the dress is hurting him directly, even if one could argue that it's exposing him prematurely to hip-hop culture and all the loveliness that implies.

I believe that parents should parent and that the government should govern. So the fact that seeing a child dressed a certain way offends you is not justification to pass laws.

Besides, please define "appropriate" for a child of a given age. There are people who would argue that ankle-length skirts are the only "appropriate" dress for a girl or woman of any age.


-Mike )'(
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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

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Posted:well, one thing is that the clothes themselves can cause health problems
g-strings and thongs, and tight clothing, my doctor tells me lead to increase uti's and yeast infections
baggy clothes, i've heard, leads to tripping and from that injuries (and public indecency)


Faith
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Spanner
BRONZE Member since Feb 2003

Spanner

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Posted:Can lead to such infections, I think you mean (and I'm sure I'd be more inclined to believe Doctor Lightning when he says that there is no direct harm smile )

Ben - don't take this personally, as I generally agree with what you want to happen, but I don't agree with the way you want to do it.
I would've thought the research you're asking people to do should come before the action, in order to reach an informed conclusion rather than just to gather ammunition.

I also think that this sounds rather patronising:

 Written by: ben-ja-men


So this only provides a partial solution to the problem, the next step is to reeducate children and parents. Ive organised a couple of meetings with some of adelaides movers and shakers to flesh out ideas on how to do this and will post more as it progresses smile



Re-educate them around to your way of thinking?
Or the Adelaide's "movers and shakers" way of thinking?
Who are they and what have they got to do with the rest of the world's children and parents?
Why don't you ask what children and parents think first?
Aren't they're the first people you'll need on your side?
That's not going to happen by patronising them confused


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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

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Posted: Written by: Spanner


I would've thought the research you're asking people to do should come before the action, in order to reach an informed conclusion rather than just to gather ammunition.


its a case of i only have so many hours in the day (most of which are spent writing my thesis) so any extra help fact finding is muchly appriciated

 Written by: Spanner


Re-educate them around to your way of thinking?
Or the Adelaide's "movers and shakers" way of thinking?
Who are they and what have they got to do with the rest of the world's children and parents?
Why don't you ask what children and parents think first?
Aren't they're the first people you'll need on your side?
That's not going to happen by patronising them confused


Currently TV/market bodies play a large role in telling children what they want. Sadly lots of parents spend very little time imparting value to their children.

Perhaps I didnt explain what i mean by reeducte very well, i mean teaching them to think for themselves and encourage them to be kids so that they can develop their own way of thinking, for example organising the infrastructure so that children can take part in structured projects that allow them to compete in competition such as http://www.usfirst.org/
that whole kids getting to design and build and being intellectually stimulated while building their own robots rather than sitting in front of the box

One core problem i believe that exists is that the student teacher ratio in classrooms means that alot of kids will do badly not because they are stupid but because they cant get the one on one help they need to overcome the little stumbling blocks which turn into huge mountains and event result in the children giving up on education. So the first step that i see in the reeducation process is to create a system where children can get 1 on 1 help with a virtual tutor with a similar style to this but with far more interactivity and much more indepth explaination of concepts.

parents need to be reeducated to, i have tutored alot of children over the last 10 years and a large majority of the parents (who are all well intended) will refer to their child in the context that they are dumb/stupid/is there any hope for him/etc etc without even realising that they are doing it!!! A child who is constantly given the message of your dumb will eventually believe it because this is what they are told.

 Written by: Doc Lightning

Children also do not have the mental facilities to make decisions regarding consumption of these substances.


so your implying that they have the mental facilities to understand the implications of dressing like a [censored]?

 Written by: Doc Lightning

I don't think it's the job of the government to parent kids. I think that it's the job of parents to parent kids.


I agree, i do think that if the government is able to help parents to better parent their children then they should.

 Written by: Doc Lightning

Besides, please define "appropriate" for a child of a given age. There are people who would argue that ankle-length skirts are the only "appropriate" dress for a girl or woman of any age.


i dont have a problem with fashion styles i have a problem with the sexualisation of children


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
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Posted:Its actually very simple - kill your TV. I love how people come up with all these ways around getting rid of TV - when really, its so easy.

and if you want to take it a step further - put your kids in a school where the other kids are on the same path eg Steiner..

last time I checked underwear doesnt have ages, just sizes...

the appropriate message would be to ban G-strings for adults, as they send the wrong message to children (you need to look like this to be attractive). The kids see adults wearing them, generally not other kids of their age group. Id suggest that the little girls wearing G-strings are identifying with an older age group than their own - and probly have significant psychological problems.

I think thats where Rozi was coming from (a bit?) wink

Josh


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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

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Posted:no, underwear does have age groups...they sell thongs and such in the childrens section, or in stores that has a main target group of tweeners

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Rozi
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Posted: Written by: Pyrolific


the appropriate message would be to ban G-strings for adults, as they send the wrong message to children (you need to look like this to be attractive). The kids see adults wearing them, generally not other kids of their age group. Id suggest that the little girls wearing G-strings are identifying with an older age group than their own - and probly have significant psychological problems.

I think thats where Rozi was coming from (a bit?) wink





A bit wink Although as faithinfire said, these products are becoming available to children in children's sizes and in children's clothing sections. Yep, they are identifying with an older image of sexuality, without really understanding what it is.

However setting a better example for children, does not necessarily preclude displays of sex and sexuality. I think a real danger in all this is of making sex a "dirty" and "nasty" thing.

I'm not going to advocate "no more gstrings for anyone" wink. However maybe we should all think about why we do what we do, and the message it sends and the impact it has on others. For example lot of people talk about raunch culture as being a way of confronting a lot of old attitudes about women and sexuality (basically that we are all delicate flowers who shouldn't like sex). There is truth in this. However if we also look at those who are receiving the message, are they really receiving the message that women are reclaiming their own bodies? Or are they just getting the "oh, look!! Boobies!!" message?

Sex is a complicated area where societal expectations and personal preferences are often at war. I wouldn't expect a kid to negotiate this minefield on their own, and so maybe is we can show that we as adults are reflecting on the complexities of it, we have a chance of helping kids through it all.


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What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Groovy_Dream
SILVER Member since May 2005

Groovy_Dream

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Location: , Australia

Total posts: 449
Posted:Post deleted by PsyRush (double post)
EDITED_BY: PsyRush (1169636055)


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Groovy_Dream
SILVER Member since May 2005

Groovy_Dream

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Location: , Australia

Total posts: 449
Posted:After a millenium of sexual repression society has finally broken free and is experiencing some sort of sexual frenzy - you see it everywhere, on tv, in magazines, the way people dress. Unfortunately this includes kids as well. Maybe over time this frenzy will just blow over and people will have a more mature outlook on the issue. Or is this being a bit too optimistic?

I'm sure there are plenty of well meaning parents are there, but what are you supposed to do as a parent? Discipline your kid and make them not wear the clothes? What if this alienates them from their friends, as may stopping them from watching tv or buying magazines. Also dictating what your kid wears is only going to jepordise your relationship with them. Of course you can stop them from being alienated by sending them to some sort of alternative school, but that's getting more onto the homeschooling topic. Unless all the kids at the school are following similar ideals, even good parents have limited power. It's a viscious cycle of corrupt advertising and the parents that don't care; both aspects have to be targeted.

Parents also have limited power because society is changing so quickly. Lets face it: kids live in a completely different world to that which their parents grew up in. How much of the parent's wisdom is still relevant? Of course, a lot of it is, but how is the child to know what is and what isn't. Why would a child listen to ideals that may be completely outdated? Kids are, essentially, completely guideless.. completely on their own.

At any rate here's a practical bandaid idea:
Don't let your kids watch ads.
We all know how corrosive ads are to your mind, especially to a child's. Stopping them from watching ads isn't nearly as risky as disciplining them etc, and they are very easy to filter out, eg use a tape recorder or hdd recorder and fast forward the ads, or get foxtel, or download stuff instead, or only watch dvds.


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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:In a society (ours) that seems to think that feminism means butch lesbianism I think the message of sexual emancipation isnt going to be printed on the G-string packet any time soon wink

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Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

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Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:According to a friend of mine who is undertaking Gender studies, one of Foucault's theories is that sex has replaced religion as a driving philosophy in the Western World.

This is kinda an interesting idea when you start to think about the purposes that religion has been put to over the years. Religion should be, and at points has been, an expression of the soul, the body and the mind, just like sex. Yet religion has been used by people to develop explicit and implicit rules on how to behave and what is "sanctioned" to be enjoyable, just like sex.

Religion has at times become a way of telling people how to feel, how to think and how to live their lives. If you read through a women's mag these days you would get the impression that unless you engaged in the sex life described within its covers you would be some kind of sad damaged heretic.

Humans are rather good at finding ways of creating rules for one another (and usually not for themselves). Sex is the latest.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

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The Tea Fairy
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

The Tea Fairy

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Location: Behind you...

Total posts: 853
Posted:Foucault Rocks!

Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

Bob Dylan

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