Page: ...
RicheeBRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic


Posted:
I'll not name, but here are people using word 'gay', to

have fun from others, but I think it is quite unfair.



Sexual orientation is personal thing and someone

can feel accused. Have fun, but talk moral.



no comment,



:R

POI THEO(R)IST


Neon_ShaolinGOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam


Posted:
Well you do have a thing for rainbows... That's pretty gay tongue

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
Rainbows kick ass!

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


Chronofracture333Hobo Gaylord
329 posts
Location: I am worldwide and lush


Posted:
So is sleeping with men...

Wait that means there are no straight women.

biggrin

*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"


Neon_ShaolinGOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam


Posted:
There's always your uberstaffer cloning programme you discussed the other day wink

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock


TinyPixieSILVER Member
enthusiast
394 posts
Location: in the clouds..., United Kingdom


Posted:
Chrono333: ... or are the only straight women the gay ones?? I'm so confused!

The one thing that has kinda stuck out of this whole thread for me is that there ARE lots of people reading these threads! I know it's kind of obvious, but it never really enters my mind when I post, I'm just really communicating with the other people posting, some of who I know really rather well. Makes me wonder, should we therefore censor ourselves more because this is a public forum?

shrug

NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
 Written by: Durbs


 Written by: NYC


 Written by: mcp


I don't know anyone on this board who's used 'gay' in the ironic sense, without knowing the person on the other end will be fine with it, or when one of the participants in the conversation is gay, both, or when both of those conditions are true.



I can't see the logic when there are thousands of people who are 'on the other end'.




Says Mr. Downright-Rude-if-you-didn't-know-him-from-HoP ?!
Mate, 90% of yours posts are scathingly sarcastic, yet I/we only know them to be sarcastic as we've been on HoP a while and know your "personality" (meh, need a better word).

"Hello Pot, this is Mr Kettle" wink



This isn't sarcasm. This is people actually believing that the word 'gay' means 'rubbish' and seeing no harm in that. I make a point that my sarcasm makes sense out of context so I'm sure to put a wink after it if there's a chance it will offend those not in the current discussion.

Then again, sarcasm requires a level of intelligence so I can see how you could get confused.

[See, sarcasm.]

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
ubblol

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


StoutBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada


Posted:
Ok the times they are a changin'...I can live with that.

I need a mid-life crisis or something to put my finger back on the pulse of popular culture because it seems that the attitude that the word gay being used as a negative is only a positive among young people.

I posed this question on another board today , and due to HoP posting guidelines, I won't link to the thread ( bad words ) but I'm not really sure what came out of the thread, my feeling is that using this word in this way, is less than acceptable.

Interesting to read that acceptance can be equated to assimillation, I suppose it's comparable to multiculturalisim being compared to monoculturism.

I do see your point about the reasons for wanting to reclaim the word, your insights are enlightening, but I don't think I'll be able to bring myself to use the word as a negative, but I will endevour to be less critical of those who do.

For the really bored, here's 106 opinions as to the meaning of the word gay

mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
chronos: "Ideally I don't want tolerance and acceptance of my sexuality, these are things that you actively have to do. It implies that secretly it still disturbs you. I'd rather it just be invisible. Nobody tolerates and accepts my blue eyes. Nor does anyone define me by them...."

Couldn't have said it better myself, and if I had done, it would have been off topic.

 Written by: NYC


 Written by: mcp


I don't know anyone on this board who's used 'gay' in the ironic sense, without knowing the person on the other end will be fine with it, or when one of the participants in the conversation is gay, both, or when both of those conditions are true.




I can't see the logic when there are thousands of people who are 'on the other end'.

You said it and Richee's not fine with it.

I don't think you and I having a public discussion about how "British Firespinners are all pricks" is covered under "No, it's cool, Meg's a British Fire Spinner and I we were having a private conversation even though we posted it on a public forum."




as durbs didn't quite say: Considering your 'sarcasm' has been so well disguised it insulted even your friends, you're one to talk.

Richee isn't gay. He can feel insulted in a "playing the white man" sort of way if he likes.

When I say in direct reply to someone "You're gay" I'm saying it to them. Sure thousands of people might be listening, but it isn't an open letter. It's a public forum more related to the act of talking rather than writing. That's how I view it. And nor do i consider and make sure my appearance isn't offensive to straight white people before I walk out the door, into the public street. (Though I think I would have to be undressed for it to be properly offensive.)

I'm not addressing the comment, "you are gay" at these thousands of people, so they can't talk offense that way. Sure they can go and use it outside of the context that they heard it in, just like I did when i was a kid with many words I didn't fully understand, like: transpose. Doesn't make it a tranpose correct usage. And yeah, maybe if we didn't use it and tv never allowed swearwords before the watershed, kids would never learn them. Cos kids can never have strong emotions, nor views / attitudes / language different to their parents. That would be criminal.

kids will learn from the kids slightly older than them, and their peers, cos that's the people that will run the world when they become adults. I should know, I cos the saying from my peers, and buggered if I'll listen to any of you old folk.

So maybe they can take offense at the perceived homosexuals harmed / insulted by this new use. Thanks, but no thanks. I don't think we need you to be insulted for us. We're not so weak that we need straight people to stand up for us. (and I mean straight in both senses at this point.)

And hopefully we can tell other gay peoples this same stuff using the gay newsletter, the gay telephone directory and the underground gay railroad songs. sweet!

Mollydog! FTW!

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


DrudwynForget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni


Posted:
I'm amazed. An on topic and to the point post by Meg!

Although I'd like to know what gay underground railroad songs you know...

Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...


_Clare_BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)


Posted:
ditto (the railroad songs)

Getting to the other side smile


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
 Written by: mcp



as durbs didn't quite say: Considering your 'sarcasm' has been so well disguised it insulted even your friends, you're one to talk.

I'm not addressing the comment, "you are gay" at these thousands of people, so they can't talk offense that way.



Getting weak dude.

Already addressed the difference between being sarcastic and using someone's identity as an insult.

Already addressed the difference between joking with someone publicly and degrading a third parties identity.

You understand my point and on a fundamental level I'm sure you agree with some of it. But you kinda like the joke and you think it's funny even though you kinda know it's wrong so you're constructing an argument so that you can keep doing what you're doing.

Which I actually have way more respect for than trying to ACTUALLY convince me that using the word 'Gay' in a derogatory way isn't derogatory towards gays.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


wonderloeyenthusiast
255 posts
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates


Posted:
Just something that occurred to me while I was on break...

How did "happy and bright" come to mean "homosexual"?

It didn't. They both come from an older usage of the word "gay" which referred to gay as being a prostitute, mainly towards women. So 150 years ago, a gay girl was a prostitute. Of course, the rent boys of the time also became gay boys, rent boy = homosexual (in popular belief, at any rate) and over time, the prostitution reference lost its meaning, which makes referring to homosexuals as gay to have lost its teeth, so to speak.

The main problem that I have with the use of the word "gay" meaning "generally negative" is that it is.. well.. general. Why make a new use of an existing word that adds absolutely nothing to the meaning of it? What's wrong with "odious" or "boring" or "shoddy".. why use a general negative word when there are better, non-offensive words you can use that will get your meaning accross?

"You've gone from Loey the Wonder Lesbian to everyone wondering if you are a lesbian." - Shadowman

Yesterday is yesterday. If we try to recapture it, we will only lose tomorrow.


strugzBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,964 posts
Location: Southampton - Possibly..., United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: NYC


..... trying to ACTUALLY convince me that using the word 'Gay' in a derogatory way isn't derogatory towards gays.



Depends if they take it personally........

Its like me calling all you lot Muppets!

then kermit getting upset....... shrug or miss piggy even..... eek

wink

"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."


Neon_ShaolinGOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam


Posted:
Then again 'Muppet' can be a euphemism for 'gay' tongue

(Think about it...)

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock


Rouge DragonBRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia


Posted:
*stifles a laugh*

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...


_Clare_BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)


Posted:
rolleyes

smile

Getting to the other side smile


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: NYC


 Written by: mcp



as durbs didn't quite say: Considering your 'sarcasm' has been so well disguised it insulted even your friends, you're one to talk.

I'm not addressing the comment, "you are gay" at these thousands of people, so they can't talk offense that way.



Already addressed the difference between being sarcastic and using someone's identity as an insult.

Already addressed the difference between joking with someone publicly and degrading a third parties identity.

You understand my point and on a fundamental level I'm sure you agree with some of it. But you kinda like the joke and you think it's funny even though you kinda know it's wrong so you're constructing an argument so that you can keep doing what you're doing.




Sorry, I was a bit drunk writing that.

My point was: You clearly thought you knew how the other person was going to take your sarcasm,, but you were wrong. (Never mind the silent thousands) Whereas I at least DO know how the other person is going to take it. (Or at least haven't yet had a case where they've taken it the wrong way.)

Not directly related to the point.

Frankly, all this chat is going to cement in peoples minds that using gay as to mean lame is going to get a reaction, so it's surely a good word to use to get one. Moreover, I really enjoy using offensive words when I'm being offensive, so it's got that going even more so for it now. Possibly straight would offend more people, and hence be a superior word, but it's got too many other associations mixed in.

Plus it isn't just your point NYC, it's a point expressed by many other people on this thread also. You're just the most stubborn in the face of gay joviality and horseplay.

Happily I'm going to continue to use it. Cos I like it, and it's new meaning, and that it annoys straight liberals.

It's like the C word. Surely offensive to all women? Who cares, I love it, it offends not ONLY the person I use it against, but also has a sort of shotgun scattered effect on other people listening... win! Not young people obviously, but possibly people over 28.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


Chronofracture333Hobo Gaylord
329 posts
Location: I am worldwide and lush


Posted:
A point I'm not sure has been raised....

Sometimes when I use the phrase "painfully straight" I'm saying " that persons actions resemble those associated with a grotesque caricature of straight people."

And sometimes when I say "dude that baton twirler is so gay" I'm saying " this persons actions resemble those associated with a grotesque caricature of gay people."

Straight and gay people both have great potential for stereotypical lame behavior. Often borrowing from the opposing camp. Why can't language reflect this?

Maybe I should use words like "camp" and "misogynistic" but often these are too specific and more general terms are appropriate.

So I have no problem with anybody using the words gay or straight in a derogatory or celebratory way because the stereotypes these words represent deserve both.

*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"


newgabeSILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia


Posted:
NYC rocks!!

As for MCP,

[Quote]and buggered if I'll listen to any of you old folk. [/Quote]

That's quite enough of that, young lady spank

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: newgabe


NYC rocks!!

As for MCP,

[Quote]and buggered if I'll listen to any of you old folk. [/Quote]

That's quite enough of that, young lady spank



redface frown Yesss mum....

wink ubbrollsmile ubbangel biggrin

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


Neon_ShaolinGOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam


Posted:
Enough of the 'young' and less of the 'Lady' Gabe... tongue

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
I won't stand to be disparaged. (let me at least sit down first.)

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


Chronofracture333Hobo Gaylord
329 posts
Location: I am worldwide and lush


Posted:
Are you sitting comfortably? Then we'll begin....



*SLAP* Skirtlifter!!



biggrin

*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
that's so gay magazine article

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
Yay, that article started off pretty gay then got quite fun. I can't be bothered to analyze any of it's arguments. Nice to know other gays are reclaiming gay for their own gay use also.



chronos: I'm totally gonna reread your post and comment on it... trouser-remover

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: Chrono333


Sometimes when I use the phrase "painfully straight" I'm saying " that persons actions resemble those associated with a grotesque caricature of straight people."

And sometimes when I say "dude that baton twirler is so gay" I'm saying " this persons actions resemble those associated with a grotesque caricature of gay people."

Straight and gay people both have great potential for stereotypical lame behavior. Often borrowing from the opposing camp. Why can't language reflect this?



Nice point. I tried to say it once, but I forgot about it before I could state it, and yours was well put.

So acting like a grotesque stereotype is lame / rubbish / not-cool. And then the use of gay stems from that.

To be fair thou, I originally started using 'gay' to mean lame / rubbish / not-cool without considering any other associations. So to begin with it didn't have a particular reason for meaning what it did.

But I can see how it may have come to mean that in my mind, since I do equate stereotypical behaviour with stupid / lame and rubbish. Also with fake and phony, but this is an association only in my mind. Sometimes I'll grant you the stereotypical behaviour is also the real and true behaviour.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


Chronofracture333Hobo Gaylord
329 posts
Location: I am worldwide and lush


Posted:
 Written by: magazine artcle

"we all understand that language does hurt and language can be very dangerous,"

"But censorship is worse. It's the pleasure and play of language that's so important, and once we start censoring ourselves, that's the first to go."



clap

Censorship is not the way to combat homophobia, it just causes resentment. And as I said above, pretending that the word only has positive connotations is IMO silly and counterproductive.

Let people say what they really think then I can decide what I think of them.

*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
People call me "weird" alot. And I can take that as an insult. Sometimes I do feel insulted. Most of the time though I take it as a compliment, I'm unique. smile

It's up to us whether we take offence or not, which is precisely what Chrono333 pointed out earlier smile

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
 Written by: strugz


 Written by: NYC


..... trying to ACTUALLY convince me that using the word 'Gay' in a derogatory way isn't derogatory towards gays.



Depends if they take it personally........




No. It doesn't. If you're using something in a DEROGATORY way it's DEROGATORY.

You can tell because both the word DEROGATORY and the word DEROGATORY start with the letters "DEROGATORY."

rolleyes

If it's not derogatory then clearly you weren't using it in a derogatory way.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


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