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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:I'll not name, but here are people using word 'gay', to

have fun from others, but I think it is quite unfair.



Sexual orientation is personal thing and someone

can feel accused. Have fun, but talk moral.



no comment,



:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: NYC


 Written by: mcp



as durbs didn't quite say: Considering your 'sarcasm' has been so well disguised it insulted even your friends, you're one to talk.

I'm not addressing the comment, "you are gay" at these thousands of people, so they can't talk offense that way.



Already addressed the difference between being sarcastic and using someone's identity as an insult.

Already addressed the difference between joking with someone publicly and degrading a third parties identity.

You understand my point and on a fundamental level I'm sure you agree with some of it. But you kinda like the joke and you think it's funny even though you kinda know it's wrong so you're constructing an argument so that you can keep doing what you're doing.




Sorry, I was a bit drunk writing that.

My point was: You clearly thought you knew how the other person was going to take your sarcasm,, but you were wrong. (Never mind the silent thousands) Whereas I at least DO know how the other person is going to take it. (Or at least haven't yet had a case where they've taken it the wrong way.)

Not directly related to the point.

Frankly, all this chat is going to cement in peoples minds that using gay as to mean lame is going to get a reaction, so it's surely a good word to use to get one. Moreover, I really enjoy using offensive words when I'm being offensive, so it's got that going even more so for it now. Possibly straight would offend more people, and hence be a superior word, but it's got too many other associations mixed in.

Plus it isn't just your point NYC, it's a point expressed by many other people on this thread also. You're just the most stubborn in the face of gay joviality and horseplay.

Happily I'm going to continue to use it. Cos I like it, and it's new meaning, and that it annoys straight liberals.

It's like the C word. Surely offensive to all women? Who cares, I love it, it offends not ONLY the person I use it against, but also has a sort of shotgun scattered effect on other people listening... win! Not young people obviously, but possibly people over 28.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Chronofracture333
Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush
Member Since: 15th Jun 2005
Total posts: 329
Posted:A point I'm not sure has been raised....

Sometimes when I use the phrase "painfully straight" I'm saying " that persons actions resemble those associated with a grotesque caricature of straight people."

And sometimes when I say "dude that baton twirler is so gay" I'm saying " this persons actions resemble those associated with a grotesque caricature of gay people."

Straight and gay people both have great potential for stereotypical lame behavior. Often borrowing from the opposing camp. Why can't language reflect this?

Maybe I should use words like "camp" and "misogynistic" but often these are too specific and more general terms are appropriate.

So I have no problem with anybody using the words gay or straight in a derogatory or celebratory way because the stereotypes these words represent deserve both.


*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted:NYC rocks!!

As for MCP,

[Quote]and buggered if I'll listen to any of you old folk. [/Quote]

That's quite enough of that, young lady spank


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: newgabe


NYC rocks!!

As for MCP,

[Quote]and buggered if I'll listen to any of you old folk. [/Quote]

That's quite enough of that, young lady spank



redface frown Yesss mum.... <sulk>

wink ubbrollsmile ubbangel biggrin


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:Enough of the 'young' and less of the 'Lady' Gabe... tongue

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:I won't stand to be disparaged. (let me at least sit down first.)

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

Chronofracture333
Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush
Member Since: 15th Jun 2005
Total posts: 329
Posted:Are you sitting comfortably? Then we'll begin....



*SLAP* Skirtlifter!!



biggrin


*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

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jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:that's so gay magazine article

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Yay, that article started off pretty gay then got quite fun. I can't be bothered to analyze any of it's arguments. Nice to know other gays are reclaiming gay for their own gay use also.



chronos: I'm totally gonna reread your post and comment on it... trouser-remover


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: Chrono333


Sometimes when I use the phrase "painfully straight" I'm saying " that persons actions resemble those associated with a grotesque caricature of straight people."

And sometimes when I say "dude that baton twirler is so gay" I'm saying " this persons actions resemble those associated with a grotesque caricature of gay people."

Straight and gay people both have great potential for stereotypical lame behavior. Often borrowing from the opposing camp. Why can't language reflect this?



Nice point. I tried to say it once, but I forgot about it before I could state it, and yours was well put.

So acting like a grotesque stereotype is lame / rubbish / not-cool. And then the use of gay stems from that.

To be fair thou, I originally started using 'gay' to mean lame / rubbish / not-cool without considering any other associations. So to begin with it didn't have a particular reason for meaning what it did.

But I can see how it may have come to mean that in my mind, since I do equate stereotypical behaviour with stupid / lame and rubbish. Also with fake and phony, but this is an association only in my mind. Sometimes I'll grant you the stereotypical behaviour is also the real and true behaviour.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

87wt2gxq7
87wt2gxq7

veteran
Location: Birmingham
Member Since: 12th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1502
Posted:Not entirely unrelated to Chrono's two-posts-ago, when I trail off in the middle of a sentence to watch a stunning pair of boobies go by for example, my housemate is liable to roll his eyes and say something like "you're such a breeder."

Great word, that biggrin

If I were in a position to use breeder as a mock-insult, somehow I don't think I'd think twice about it like I do with gay.

Does this make me a hypocrite?
Discuss (or, more probably, not).


Delete

Chronofracture333
Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush
Member Since: 15th Jun 2005
Total posts: 329
Posted: Written by: magazine artcle

"we all understand that language does hurt and language can be very dangerous,"

"But censorship is worse. It's the pleasure and play of language that's so important, and once we start censoring ourselves, that's the first to go."



clap

Censorship is not the way to combat homophobia, it just causes resentment. And as I said above, pretending that the word only has positive connotations is IMO silly and counterproductive.

Let people say what they really think then I can decide what I think of them.


*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

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jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:People call me "weird" alot. And I can take that as an insult. Sometimes I do feel insulted. Most of the time though I take it as a compliment, I'm unique. smile

It's up to us whether we take offence or not, which is precisely what Chrono333 pointed out earlier smile


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: strugz


 Written by: NYC


..... trying to ACTUALLY convince me that using the word 'Gay' in a derogatory way isn't derogatory towards gays.



Depends if they take it personally........




No. It doesn't. If you're using something in a DEROGATORY way it's DEROGATORY.

You can tell because both the word DEROGATORY and the word DEROGATORY start with the letters "DEROGATORY."

rolleyes

If it's not derogatory then clearly you weren't using it in a derogatory way.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:As an aside.....I suppose another example of "reclaiming the tools of the opressors" would be the use of the pink triangle..

wonderloey..gay could be more accuratly interpreted to mean "party animal", back in the day.


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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:NYC: so it's only DEROGATORY when it's in capital letters? wink

I'll get my coat...


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:I appreciate all your pro's and con's.

Is that cause I <slack>?

thank you,

:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:smile

Getting to the other side smile

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)

derogatory

tending to lessen the merit or reputation of a person or thing; disparaging; depreciatory: a derogatory remark

see, the issue here is a bit of culture clash.

voi - you think the word 'gay' is derogatory, because of your background (culture)

noi - we think that its not a derogatory word, its just another adjective. we dont care if straight peaple say it, i dont care if drunk [censored] rednecks say it.

they can say what they like, and so can i.

big applause for neon shaolin, NYC why dont you re-read his posts?

personaly im going off the word, all this talk is making it lame, its just a buzzword you see, i will say something else. its broken in a rash and it will die down again, you cant stop language, you can only ride it.

bill hicks never gave a F U C K about who he offended, and you cant say he was bad for the world or the people...

unless your really straight smile

so lighten up. ruggsniffers wink ****attention this was a friendly jibe***** wink

or,

grandad ****bit more cutting****

wink

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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FoxInDocs
FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 1848
Posted: Written by: Chrono333


Ideally I don't want tolerance and acceptance of my sexuality, these are things that you actively have to do. It implies that secretly it still disturbs you. I'd rather it just be invisible. Nobody tolerates and accepts my blue eyes. Nor does anyone define me by them....





Thankyou for articulating a view that i've held dear for a long time.


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted: Written by: 87wt2gxq7


Not entirely unrelated to Chrono's two-posts-ago, when I trail off in the middle of a sentence to watch a stunning pair of boobies go by for example, my housemate is liable to roll his eyes and say something like "you're such a breeder."

Great word, that biggrin

If I were in a position to use breeder as a mock-insult, somehow I don't think I'd think twice about it like I do with gay.

Does this make me a hypocrite?
Discuss (or, more probably, not).



No, it just shows you are caring and considerate to others. Please stop that right now...

Stallion... tongue


 Written by: Nx

bill hicks never gave a F U C K about who he offended, and you cant say he was bad for the world or the people...



Damn right!


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: Neon_Shaolin



 Written by: Nx

bill hicks never gave a F U C K about who he offended, and you cant say he was bad for the world or the people...



Damn right!



I think folks like Bill Hicks very carefully selected and focused opon who they offended. That's what made him funny.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:Yup - those who deserved to be offended...



Need I say the G-word? Who does this offend then?




Non-Https Image Link


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:nothing further to add:




Non-Https Image Link

Non-Https Image Link

Non-Https Image Link

Non-Https Image Link

Non-Https Image Link




I just think it's cute.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:Didn't know you had the capacity to find things cute confused

Then again I find them vaguely disturbing...


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: Neon_Shaolin


Didn't know you had the capacity to find things cute confused




it was a recent upgrade.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:So were to put Bugis and Mollydog in front of you...

Would they survive...? :rolleyes:

(What the hell were you doing with a bottle of 'Femme' anyway?) umm


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:I found it in strugz car. He had a poor excuse for having it. Plus I left him the bottle of 'tweed' maybe next time I'll get chronos with that...

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:bottle of tweed? is that a euphemism?

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:I totally see where Mr. NYC is coming from. Although gay adults may happy with the idea that they're reclaiming the tools of the oppressors, Educators, on the other hand are dead set against the use of gay as an insult in a school envirnment.

If you're interested, research GALE ( gay and lesbian educators ) for their take on this issue, and how it relates the ideals of social acceptance amongst the school aged.

Keep gay youth suicide statistics in mind...


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