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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:I'll not name, but here are people using word 'gay', to

have fun from others, but I think it is quite unfair.



Sexual orientation is personal thing and someone

can feel accused. Have fun, but talk moral.



no comment,



:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: Neon_Shaolin


And I thought you were dismissing my whole 'nobody cares about people using words meaning 'disabled' as negative slurs' argument by bringing up 'retard' Which has still a bone of contention in America from what I've read.



Isn't that cos most americans are... oh no wait, that would be racist.

I think people did get antsy... but then they changed the name of spastics to scope patients or some such. And morons and idiots didn't care enough obviously.

But the analogy doesn't really hold because there is a huge negative associated with all those words, the lower intelligence it implies.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:Ben: Yes I am gay. Blind deaf and dead people know that. So just ask me out already! tongue I think most of the people arguing FOR being allowed to use it are gay, and their friends and mothers too. tongue Oh God, I'm having flashbacks to that godawful, deux ex machina/dead poets ending of 'In & Out'



Stout: If nothing we do matters then all that matters is what we do...



Meg: I remember it being on the news when they changed the name of the spastics Society but 'Spaz' is still in general use with minimal fuss...


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted: Written by: newgabe


Clarify? Ben would you like to rephrase that in grammatical and possibly even comprehensible English? Or is this an example of *gay* poetry? wink


ubblol its silent grammar you read it but dont write it, its like totally fab wink


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:I think gay people getting in an uproar about the new use of the word gay would be too predictable, boring, normal and well straight really. And quite lame.

This approach is much more fun.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:To add another factor which I think is relevent.

I believe the CONTEXT of the situation is important as well. We live in a society where gays are opressed, beaten and even killed for their sexual orientation. I think that has some relevance to this arguement.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Maybe Brits don't see the point because they're brainwashed by their homophobic media.

At least that's what the Brits think.

wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:Homophobic killers will kill gays regardless of whether or not we use 'gay' as an insult.

The approach we are using doesn't shy away from prejudice and pretend it doesn't happen, it confronts you with it and forces you to think - what are you offended by? The word itself? What it implied - i.e. sodomy? Weakness? Why are you offended by it? Does being called 'gay' offend you because it shouldn't be something used as a negative or because it implies that being gay is weak and degrading?

Gay people shouldn't be victims as a 'race'. Again I reiterate the idea that its excessive ironic use here between friends (specifically that a gay person would repeatedly call their straight friend 'gay' is a subversion of its 'normal' useage) demeans its power for when a genuine homophobe or straight person uses it with genuine malice without irony.

HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION
Try a different way of thinking. Specifically with its use on HOP and the influence it MAY have. Young person sees the word 'gay' being used in the way it has been - in friendly jest - is TOUCHED by the level of friendish and camaderie ironically from the insults that they themselves feel okay to use it with THEIR friends. Homophobes would TRY use it
against said gay but due to its excessive use, it no longer has any power over them. Homophobes could either get bored and give up, or decide that 'Gay's aren't so bad, they have a sense of humour'. If they intend to beat up or kill a gay, I don't think any measures put in place in our internet etiquette is gonna change that...


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Well would you go up to a black guy and tell him not to use the N word? I wouldn't.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:Wasn't Queer as Folk originally a British tv series?

Neon Shaolin, I'm not personally offended by the way the word is being used, but I'm not gay. But if I were, I'd be offended due to both of the reasons you questioned above.

It's not really about existing homophobes, it's about creating new ones. I get the "subversion" idea, but I think it's the wrong idea. Sure a few straight people may think hey, these gays have a sense of humour, but those are going to be a minority. Mostly it's going to be the young and impressionable who are going to pick up on the idea that being gay is not ok.

I dunno know about in the UK, but the fact that our school system has the program I mentioned earlier in place, leads me to believe that the negative usage of the word gay isn't confined solely to the internet. It's not HoPers I'm concerned about.

Lemme fire this up on an American message board and see what they have to say.


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: mcp


Well would you go up to a black guy and tell him not to use the N word? I wouldn't.



That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about going up to a WHITE guy and telling him not to use the N word.

Actually, it's more like...

What if we all started using the word "Negro" for Meg's example. Like if some says something really stupid we'll say they're acting "Like a Negro."

No, no... it's cool because my one black friend said he thought it was funny.

rolleyes

I don't think that anybody here can speak for the millions of gays that are opressed and shamed on a daily basis. I would like to show them respect by not using their sexuality as an insult.

I work with kids every day, and in a High school of a thousand kids there are usually like TWO openly gay kids which means there are MANY more that are too ashamed, embarassed, uncomfortable and afraid to acknowlege their sexuality. I don't think it's fair to them for me or anybody else to use their sexuality as an insult.

That's my opinion. I know by the lack of tolerance and sensitivity I've seen in most places that I'm in the minority and there's not much I can do to change that globally.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:**************DISCLAIMER*************************
Another hypothetical arguement. Because I do believe its important to the point I am trying to make I will not be blanking out the word 'Nigger'. If you feel if necessarily to report me to the moderators then do so. I merely want to express and opinion and I feel that covering up the word 'Nigger' just as much an insult to those it has been used against as the usage itself.

This theorhetical conversation is merely my own hypothesis with no basis in fact but an 'educated theory'. I accept responsibility for my own opinion and apologise if it offends or patronises anyone. This is not supposed to encapsulate every balck person but perhaps to understand why those who would use the word might do.

WHITE PERSON: I don't like you using the word 'Nigger'
BLACK PERSON: Why not?
WHITE: It is offensive
BLACK: Why
WHITE: It was used as a derogatory term for black slaves by their white masters during slavery.
BLACK: You gave us the name, we're taking it back.
WHITE: But it was used by racists ever since.
BLACK: Does it make you feel uncomfortable guilty about the way we were treated back then?
WHITE: Yes
BLACK: Does it remind you of slavery and racism every time I use it?
WHITE: Yes.
BLACK: Do you think the slave trade and apartheid should ever be forgotten?
WHITE: No...
BLACK: After all we suffered, forgiveness aside, do you think we deserve a LITTLE bit of retribution by momentarily making you uncomfortable about the thought of what was suffered at your hands - encapsulated whenever we use just ONE word. For us, and us alone to use....?
WHITE: I'll get back to you on that...


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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HealthyTouchPro
HealthyTouchPro

Member
Location: Chicago, Il.
Member Since: 9th Nov 2006
Total posts: 18
Posted:Yes, there are places where homosexuality is Illegal and you can be Imprisoned, Beaten and Hanged for it. India for one as well as others.

Thanks, NYC for you attempt to enlighten the masses. ubbangel


Head in hands so much to learn...

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: NYC


 Written by: mcp


Well would you go up to a black guy and tell him not to use the N word? I wouldn't.



That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about going up to a WHITE guy and telling him not to use the N word.



Actually I wasn't. I don't think it's okay for straight people to use gay, without it being very obvious that they're not homophobic, or when they're around a gay person who using it a lot in the ironic sense.

but obviously this analogy is slightly broken as you can't call inanimate objects the N word. (also I meant the other N word.)

I don't know anyone on this board who's used 'gay' in the ironic sense, without knowing the person on the other end will be fine with it, or when one of the participants in the conversation is gay, both, or when both of those conditions are true.

I'm still well up for using straight instead of gay thou.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

Drudwyn
Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni
Member Since: 27th Aug 2005
Total posts: 632
Posted:Homophobia is a massive problem, but one I've never had a problem with, but I guess I'm just lucky. I've had more racist comments about the fact I'm white, or the fact that I'm a furry, or even the fact I wear baggy jeans than I have about my sexuality.

There will always be bigots, and anything different is going to be feared or hated. I'm a very lucky man by all accounts in that I'm strong enough to stand up and say "I'm gay", and I have no right to stand for all those who are opressed and discriminated against because of their sexuality, or fear to come out because of hate.

But will stopping the use of the word gay meaning lame make any difference? I don't think it will. I have no answers, although i wish I did, but I do not think that this will make any difference. All that can be done is to provide good role models, to put as much support behind them as possible and clamping down on the homophobia no matter what form it comes in or from whom.


Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:<still trying to work out if a homosexual using the word gay in the third sense is in fact homophobic... >

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

Drudwyn
Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni
Member Since: 27th Aug 2005
Total posts: 632
Posted:No, just ironic.

Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:I feel really gay, but this thread's a bit queer so now I feel sad. frown

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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87wt2gxq7
87wt2gxq7

veteran
Location: Birmingham
Member Since: 12th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1502
Posted:hey hang on, doesn't saying "using the word gay to mean lame" discriminate against mobility-impaired people?

ubblol

never mind, as you were...


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jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:not if all people with disabilities are homosexual. Which they are. so it's all ok. smile

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:but what about the gay horses? Won't they be doubly offended? wink

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:no because they have huge schlongs.

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:only the male ones!

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

HealthyTouchPro
HealthyTouchPro

Member
Location: Chicago, Il.
Member Since: 9th Nov 2006
Total posts: 18
Posted:The horses might not be offended put the Penquins are going to come after you in six inch pumps and a Rocket Launcher... hehe ubblol

Head in hands so much to learn...

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Chronofracture333
Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush
Member Since: 15th Jun 2005
Total posts: 329
Posted:It's not possible to offend someone, only to be offended. The context is ultimately provided by oneself. The contents of your mind and the connections you make.

So anyone offended really doesn't have to be.

Being attacked or having my actions restricted by another person(s) is crap. But the words that accompany these actions are hardly the issue.

hug


*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:"It is about using the word 'gay' as a generalised insult to mean lame, stupid or worthless. Which then implies that homosexual people are that."

you cant really argue with peoples usage of a word, its just a reflection of a society as a whole. you wont fix the problem by ignoring it, or limit our use to only positve connotations. by using both connotations we reclam both meanings.

yes there is the posibility of making the wrong impression, but that possibility always exists. stop trying to mother everyone, you will only damage them in the long run. peaple have to grow up and see the world as it is, without exposure you can never become 'comfortabe with your sexuality'.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:and yes, its all the straight peaple who have the problem, and all the gays are screaming that they can use it however they want.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Chronofracture333
Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush
Member Since: 15th Jun 2005
Total posts: 329
Posted: Written by: [Nx?

] its all the straight peaple who have the problem





Yes, but it's very sweet of them really.


*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:LOL chrono333

anyway, gay is lame, have you been to a gay club recently? the music is rubbish! :P

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:plus tom: answer my pm gaylord.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:in about 30 mins, assuming your coming juggling

(my inbox has one from meg entitled 'gay' and another above it entitled 'Am I gay or not?' ubblol )

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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