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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:I'll not name, but here are people using word 'gay', to

have fun from others, but I think it is quite unfair.



Sexual orientation is personal thing and someone

can feel accused. Have fun, but talk moral.



no comment,



:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:I disagree.

Few gay people I've met have found it offensive, those few who did were generally not nice people. So I'm inclided to side with the nice gay people I've met on this issue.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:"Racist" is the wrong word but I understand your point.

Most of the time I've seen it used, it's being used ironically. Sometimes that irony is lost on those reading it.

I haven't seen much actual anti-gay sentiment here on HoP. But it is tough to remember (and intimidating) that there are thousands of people reading each post even when it seems like a quiet conversation between a few friends.

Interesting point Richee.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: jeff(fake)


I disagree.




What are you disagreeing with?

The fact that people are using the word "Gay"?
The fact he thinks it's intolerant?
The fact that sexual orientation is a personal thing?
Or the fact that some can feel personally offended by the use of that word?

I completely understand all of those points.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:Yes! I'm sick of being accused of being gay! Oh wait... shrug



I think the term is 'homophobic' (not haemaphilliac as I heard someone say...!)



I think you'll find that the people who use it are themselves gay or close friends with said degenerate... Who say it with a ever-so-slight sense of irony. We use it as a negative, but to those who know us well enough to know that we are either gay or gay-friendly (sometimes not friendly-enough...) and intend it as a subversion of derogatory remarks. If we use it, then it takes away the power from those who off-handedly use it as a genuine negative.



I prefer to tackle non-political correctness head on instead of shying away from our issues with difference...



Along the similar lines of black people using 'the N-word'. The fact that wrote it like that shows that I am not insensitive to your point Meaning that I don't know many on here (hmmmm, there's a thread in itself) enough feel comfortable using it...



But this does bring-up an interesting discussion - when IS it acceptable to use a derogatory term?



I'm sure I have a point in there somewhere....


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:how can the word "gay" be racist?!! ubblol

Richee, if someone has been abusive to others, it should be addressed. If you find something someone said harmful or offensive, address it if you can. hug

to me, sexual orientation is irrelevant. smile


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted: Written by: Neon_Shaolin


Yes! I'm sick of being accused of being gay!




tongue Shut up you bummer! spank


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted: Written by: NYC


 Written by: jeff(fake)


I disagree.




What are you disagreeing with?



Yeh, I was pretty vague there.

I was disagreeing that it's being used in such a way as to cause hurt or upset.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted: Written by: jo_rhymes


 Written by: Neon_Shaolin


Yes! I'm sick of being accused of being gay!




tongue Shut up you bummer! spank



Lower please...

If you reach the ankles you've gone too far... Or I've got one hell of a saggy arse...


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:backs of the knees?

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:neon: yer gay! biggrin hug

I [censored] hate political correctness. It's like painting your prejudices with pastel happy paint so nobody else can see them. It's as bad as 'spin' and 'propaganda'.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted:umm Gay was a word that meant happy, then gay people started calling themselves gay now if someone uses the word gay we're being insulting?

Don't we just have to assess the meaning behind what people are saying? Like when someone says "you're a w**ker" or "your a f**ker" it doesn't mean they hate anyone who masturbates or has sex, so why should saying "you're so gay" offend gay people? Or why do we care?


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:i think this has been discussed before, because i remember asking my homosexual friend about it and he said that he didnt find it offensive at all. unless of course it was deliberately meant to be offensive, and when usually used in the context being discussed it isnt.

so "gay" now means "crappy" or whatever? 100 years ago, didn't "gay" mean happy? maybe the happy people should be offended it is being used to describe people of homosexual tendencies* shrug



*I'm being hypothetical and devils advocate before anyone feels they would like to crucify me for this.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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87wt2gxq7
87wt2gxq7

veteran
Location: Birmingham
Member Since: 12th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1502
Posted:Post in favour of reasonable and thoughtful political correctnessness:

My (homosexual) housemate read a couple of HoP posts a while back in which the word 'gay' was used in a derogatory fashion.

He said that he didn't personally take offense, but he could easily see how other gay people would. Specially young people, or people whose sense of irony wasn't as finely honed as others'.

Plus, what about the idolising teenager who sees their HoP heroes using the word derisively, doesn't get the irony, and is encouraged to use it derisively without the tacet "not that there's anything wrong with homosexuality and I'm using the term ironically, even 'taking it back' for the gay homies/homos, yo".

Also, what about the gay person with self-confidence issues to do with their sexuality, maybe bullied at school, afraid to come out to parents etc, who takes up spinning? They go to HoP and perceives that gay people are being insulted. Result: one person turned off HoP, maybe spinning entirely, when they could have been welcomed here and could have got a lot out of this community.

So I'm not saying that people who use 'gay' ironically should stop doing so, but maybe that they should think about the repercussions and impact on people they don't even know, if they're going to post it on a public forum.

(For the record, I use the word 'gay' derisively but only in the company of people who I know understand that I'm using it ironically)


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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:I'm not sure how relevant this is, but in Australia we apparently cannot call "fairy penguins" that anymore. They are "little penguins" as calling them "fairy penguins" may offend homosexual people.

excuse me?

rolleyes


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:OK kids, calm down cuz you're missin' the point.



I know that Richee is sometimes tough to understand so I'll try to translate.



He's not upset with the word "Gay" to describe homosexuals. He's remarking that using the word "Gay" to make fun of someone can be offensive. He's suggesting that using "Gay" in a derogatory manner can be offensive to some.



Example:

"Did you hear that they kicked us off the bus because we were making too much noise?"

"Yeah, that's gay."



Now just because you ran to your one gay friend and they said it was cool doesn't mean that some won't find it offensive.



Richee has a valid point. Using the word "gay" as a negative word can be offensive to some.



I find this in the same vein as calling someone a "woman" (or girl, or wearing women's clothing/dresses/etc.) if they are weak or somehow inferior.



Example:

Guy: I don't give blood because I'm scared of the needle.

Guy2: C'mon dude, don't be such a woman all the time, it's just a needle.



Meg also has a valid point of "If they can't handle it, f**k em"



[this post was constructed at the same time as 87wt2gxq7's and echoes the sentiments in that post as well. Well said.]


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2212170,00.html
(totally stolen from meg)

language changes, its dynamic, personally i use the word gay alot

gay = slack
gay = lame
gay = as if you just pulled that trick off that was insane
gaylord = brett
gay = inlove with yourself
gay = happy
gay = stop licking my nipples! a simple hug hello will suffice


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:Take it from the Gay Poet - he knows what he's talking about...



He's an Omega-Level Gay.... All gays bow/bend down to him...


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:gay model poet thank you very much biggrin

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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87wt2gxq7
87wt2gxq7

veteran
Location: Birmingham
Member Since: 12th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1502
Posted:Good point NYC!

replace the word 'gay' with 'Jewish' or 'black' or something. Is it still acceptable then? If not okay for 'Jewish', why okay 'gay'?


Also good point mcp - if you can't laugh about it then you're still prejudiced. However if you can laugh about it, it doesn't mean other people aren't still prejudiced though.


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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted: Written by: ben-ja-men


gay model poet thank you very much biggrin



Whatever you say Fabio... rolleyes


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted: Written by:

replace the word 'gay' with 'Jewish' or 'black' or something. Is it still acceptable then? If not okay for 'Jewish', why okay 'gay'?



Well, if Jewish or Black people were okay with it, then why not?


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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87wt2gxq7
87wt2gxq7

veteran
Location: Birmingham
Member Since: 12th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1502
Posted: Written by: jeff(fake)

Well, if Jewish or Black people were okay with it, then why not?


um... eg: because you never know quite how a stranger is going to take a comment they read on a public forum for starters!

Also, they're not okay with it! (They are not like Us. oh no*.)



*please note irony!!!!


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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:I like the penguin thing. Everybody gets upset about 'gay' but nobody does about 'queer' 'dyke' or 'fairy'

all valid words in their own right. I mean I would like to use the word queer for something bizarre but slightly britishy. But do i get to anymore... nope... frown

maybe some words just have something about them, that makes them better as swear words than other words, or they're just used because people want to say them. I think there's a theory that "f*&k you" and "shut up" imply in their saying the users feelings. The interminable argument and the length of their dealing with it and they're generall impatience are caught up in the drawn out first word, the long u.. and then the snap of the insult and the breaking of their patience comes with the short sharp final word.

Or something like that. Something to do with cellar door or somethin'... wink

dont mind me, I'm a ramblin'


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted: Written by: mcp


I like the penguin thing. Everybody gets upset about 'gay' but nobody does about 'queer' 'dyke' or 'fairy'




id think more people get upset about queer and dyke than fairy. and i think they are used in offensive ways more often.

does this also mean we cant use the word "queen" anymore either?

bearing in mind the penguins were fairies long before the homosexuals were.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:nah, we still have a queen we need the word... no not prince charles... wink

maybe 'drag' will get corrupted as well...

I always found lesbian more offensive than dyke, cos dyke is at least short and sharp, whereas lesbian is possibly one of the worse sounding words I've ever had the misfortune to come across.

I have never personally seen queer used derogatorily... "fag" and "faggot" are different cases thou. I don't even like to type them.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

87wt2gxq7
87wt2gxq7

veteran
Location: Birmingham
Member Since: 12th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1502
Posted:Yeah, the penguin thing made me chuckle lots when I first heard it.


and mcp, yeah you've just reminded me that I'm a big ol' hypocrite coz I often use the word 'queer' to mean odd or unusual. Taking-it-back styles.

And I don't usually check who's around and consider whether they'll take offence, neither.

Bad me, I guess.


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: jeff(fake)



 Written by:

replace the word 'gay' with 'Jewish' or 'black' or something. Is it still acceptable then? If not okay for 'Jewish', why okay 'gay'?



Well, if Jewish or Black people were okay with it, then why not?





If something is derogatory but folks don't mind, is it still derogatory?



What if only a few people mind?



What if a larger group of people mind but they're not currently in the conversation?


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:I would've thought the word 'dyke' would've been a more offensive but causes the least uproar because it has very limited general use. It's not been thrust into the public consciousness as an utilitarian word for 'bad'. It's still deemed offensive and treated as such.

Much like the C-word (like Dyke is very linguistically forceful word) which causes less uproar because it's COMPLETELY unacceptable for everyday PG-friendly usage.


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: 87wt2gxq7


and mcp, yeah you've just reminded me that I'm a big ol' hypocrite coz I often use the word 'queer' to mean odd or unusual. Taking-it-back styles.

And I don't usually check who's around and consider whether they'll take offence, neither.

Bad me, I guess.



Are you taking the piss? Who gives a flying monkey [censored] if anyone takes offense at the original use of the word?

"I'm sorry but you can't use the original sense of the word 'dyke'"
"WTF? I'm a town planner in Holland!"


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Neon_Shaolin
Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Member Since: 13th Jul 2005
Total posts: 6120
Posted:Henry Rollins said something like 'Gay - equals 'Happy!' but 'lesbian' sounds like something you catch... Same with Dyke, probably cooked up by men who are angry that a woman does not need your d**k'

btw - Cellar Door - J.R.R. Tolkein?

NYC - I think us gays accept the word gay so we retain the right be as bitchy and offensive to others as possible (Fair Trade and all... tongue)


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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