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RicheeBRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic


Posted:
I'll not name, but here are people using word 'gay', to

have fun from others, but I think it is quite unfair.



Sexual orientation is personal thing and someone

can feel accused. Have fun, but talk moral.



no comment,



:R

POI THEO(R)IST


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: NYC


 Written by: mcp


Well would you go up to a black guy and tell him not to use the N word? I wouldn't.



That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about going up to a WHITE guy and telling him not to use the N word.



Actually I wasn't. I don't think it's okay for straight people to use gay, without it being very obvious that they're not homophobic, or when they're around a gay person who using it a lot in the ironic sense.

but obviously this analogy is slightly broken as you can't call inanimate objects the N word. (also I meant the other N word.)

I don't know anyone on this board who's used 'gay' in the ironic sense, without knowing the person on the other end will be fine with it, or when one of the participants in the conversation is gay, both, or when both of those conditions are true.

I'm still well up for using straight instead of gay thou.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


DrudwynForget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni


Posted:
Homophobia is a massive problem, but one I've never had a problem with, but I guess I'm just lucky. I've had more racist comments about the fact I'm white, or the fact that I'm a furry, or even the fact I wear baggy jeans than I have about my sexuality.

There will always be bigots, and anything different is going to be feared or hated. I'm a very lucky man by all accounts in that I'm strong enough to stand up and say "I'm gay", and I have no right to stand for all those who are opressed and discriminated against because of their sexuality, or fear to come out because of hate.

But will stopping the use of the word gay meaning lame make any difference? I don't think it will. I have no answers, although i wish I did, but I do not think that this will make any difference. All that can be done is to provide good role models, to put as much support behind them as possible and clamping down on the homophobia no matter what form it comes in or from whom.

Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


DrudwynForget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni


Posted:
No, just ironic.

Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
I feel really gay, but this thread's a bit queer so now I feel sad. frown

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
not if all people with disabilities are homosexual. Which they are. so it's all ok. smile

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
but what about the gay horses? Won't they be doubly offended? wink

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
no because they have huge schlongs.

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
only the male ones!

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


HealthyTouchProBRONZE Member
Member
18 posts
Location: Chicago, Il., USA


Posted:
The horses might not be offended put the Penquins are going to come after you in six inch pumps and a Rocket Launcher... hehe ubblol

Head in hands so much to learn...


Chronofracture333Hobo Gaylord
329 posts
Location: I am worldwide and lush


Posted:
It's not possible to offend someone, only to be offended. The context is ultimately provided by oneself. The contents of your mind and the connections you make.

So anyone offended really doesn't have to be.

Being attacked or having my actions restricted by another person(s) is crap. But the words that accompany these actions are hardly the issue.

hug

*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"


[Nx?]BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both


Posted:
"It is about using the word 'gay' as a generalised insult to mean lame, stupid or worthless. Which then implies that homosexual people are that."

you cant really argue with peoples usage of a word, its just a reflection of a society as a whole. you wont fix the problem by ignoring it, or limit our use to only positve connotations. by using both connotations we reclam both meanings.

yes there is the posibility of making the wrong impression, but that possibility always exists. stop trying to mother everyone, you will only damage them in the long run. peaple have to grow up and see the world as it is, without exposure you can never become 'comfortabe with your sexuality'.

T wave

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


[Nx?]BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both


Posted:
and yes, its all the straight peaple who have the problem, and all the gays are screaming that they can use it however they want.

T wave

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


Chronofracture333Hobo Gaylord
329 posts
Location: I am worldwide and lush


Posted:
 Written by: [Nx?

] its all the straight peaple who have the problem





Yes, but it's very sweet of them really.

*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"


[Nx?]BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both


Posted:
LOL chrono333

anyway, gay is lame, have you been to a gay club recently? the music is rubbish! :P

T wave

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
plus tom: answer my pm gaylord.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


[Nx?]BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both


Posted:
in about 30 mins, assuming your coming juggling

(my inbox has one from meg entitled 'gay' and another above it entitled 'Am I gay or not?' ubblol )

T wave

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


StoutBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada


Posted:
Yes, it really is sweet of us, to act with tolerance and compassion in response to requests/demands from the gay community. Isn't this what they wanted ?

Now if gay is to go the way the word nigger did, that is to be acceptable for blacks to use with other blacks ( but if I, a white guy, went and called my black neighbour a nigger, he'd pop my head like a zit ) and be acceptable for gays to use with other gays, that's a different thing altogether.

DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
Er... do people actually really care this much?
8 pages of arsing around FFS

Some people (though it seems very few) seem to think other people find it offensive, even fewer find it offensive themselves.

No-one who uses it on this board uses it offensively.

So it's 8 pages of trying to persuade a small minority that they're in the minority umm and the vast majority of people on this board aren't going to change anything about the way they post/speak.

And I thought my "What is Dance" discussion was pointless... wink

You know what?
You're all GAY

tongue

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
Oh, and who changed the thread title to "HOP Gay Racism"?

a) Last time I checked, homosexuality isn't a race (Pink Passport anyone wink )
b) It's not ever said in a derogatory manner - it might have derogatory implications, but can't people just accept that actually they're 2 completely different words? So branding everyone who uses it as a slang term as a racist is waaaaaaaaaay off the mark.

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
Finally - who's to say we're not using a warped version of the original meaning of word? Hmmmm?

Would make a lot more sense...
The move is gay = That move is really happy and nice
You're sooooo gay = Gosh, you look happy and bright today
Hmmm, can you try and make that look less gay? = Please stop smiling and poncing and learn some planes hippy

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


Neon_ShaolinGOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam


Posted:
Stout, don't mean to undermime your obvious compassion and acceptance of us, but acceptance also means acknowledging that we have flaws, have differences of opinion within our own culture. Some are nice, some are obnoxious and that everyone should treated as individuals. This extends to our use of language - As I've stressed - language and communication are not the same thing. Words, as well as actions should be treated individually.



I definitely on trying to crack down on homophobic bullying in schools where face-to-face interaction and the threat of physical violence is rife but will that crackdown extend to a group of gay people who choose to use the phrase within their own circle?



It's a part of the whole 'whatever doesn't kill us makes us stronger' ethos. Most of us have had to put up with alot of sh*t either from other people or own own fragile little psyches but have come out stronger for it. Calling ourselves the derogatory names is just part of the strengthing thing.



You can't claim to know how you would be if you were gay anymore than I could claim to know what it would be like to be straight. And i don't mean in terms of sexuality but know your place in the world and how that would shape you as a human being. In all fairness I could turn out to be the most homophobic misoginist you've met, but I will never know... Saying that, your concern for those in high school, its a time when EVERYONE is vulnerable, not just gay people, struggling to find their place in the world.



Seriously, don't put this off fighting for gay rights as I realise this may come across as ungrateful but there are other gay issues that have wider implications like gay marriage, adoption, military service etc, msotly issues regarding legal rights. And those involved aren't really ones that will bandy about the phrase 'That's soooo gay!'

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
 Written by: Durbs



Oh, and who changed the thread title to "HOP Gay Racism"?



a) Last time I checked, homosexuality isn't a race (Pink Passport anyone wink )





This has been discussed. IN THIS THREAD. Do a Durbs. Or maybe read the thread.



tongue



Richee originally mistitled the thread "racist" as English is not his first language. That was cleared up after about three posts.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
 Written by: mcp


I don't know anyone on this board who's used 'gay' in the ironic sense, without knowing the person on the other end will be fine with it, or when one of the participants in the conversation is gay, both, or when both of those conditions are true.




I can't see the logic when there are thousands of people who are 'on the other end'.

You said it and Richee's not fine with it.

I don't think you and I having a public discussion about how "British Firespinners are all pricks" is covered under "No, it's cool, Meg's a British Fire Spinner and I we were having a private conversation even though we posted it on a public forum."

It's not OK for you to call me a derrogatory name for Italians on a public forum just because I don't care.

And again, it makes me uncomfortable to have this vibe of "It's OK to insult an entire group as long as that group isn't listening or the members of the group that are listening don't care."

It's prejudice and it's immoral.

shrug

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


StoutBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada


Posted:
Thing is, we, the straight community are getting mixed messages here. Back in tho oh so politically correct 1990's, when everyone who could, revelled in a sense of victimhood and complained that theie lives were miserable to to the actions, words and thoughts of us, the straight white male .A lot of fuss was made about the nature of language and communication with an air trying to "correct" just how we related to each other.

I present hate crime legislation ( and it's relation to free speech) , and sexual harassment as two examples of just HOW "we" were expected to change.

I know most of the pc ideas crossed into the realm of the ridiculous, but some of that attitude actually stuck.

So now it's OK for straight people to use gay as a negative?? I don't care how the gay community uses it, that's their choice. As to how it's used here on Hop, well that's a different matter too. Now, I'm well aware that most of you actually know each other in person, and may well have insights into each others attitudes when it comes to homophobia, but to a guy like me, who's just on one end of an internet connection, I lack these insights.

I'm not really fighting for gay rights per say, I'm more amazed that the gay community just rolled over and put all four paws in the air at ( what I percieve as a ) new meaning of the word gay. That's the mixed message I'm getting.

Do you figure I should just drop the whole thing ?

DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
 Written by: Stout


I'm not really fighting for gay rights per say, I'm more amazed that the gay community just rolled over and put all four paws in the air at ( what I percieve as a ) new meaning of the word gay. That's the mixed message I'm getting.



Ahhh, but you see - it's a "new meaning of the word" - I personally use the word without any reference to sexuality whatsoever. It's just a word
Sooo....
 Written by: Stout

Do you figure I should just drop the whole thing ?


Yes wink

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
 Written by: NYC


 Written by: mcp


I don't know anyone on this board who's used 'gay' in the ironic sense, without knowing the person on the other end will be fine with it, or when one of the participants in the conversation is gay, both, or when both of those conditions are true.



I can't see the logic when there are thousands of people who are 'on the other end'.




Says Mr. Downright-Rude-if-you-didn't-know-him-from-HoP ?!
Mate, 90% of yours posts are scathingly sarcastic, yet I/we only know them to be sarcastic as we've been on HoP a while and know your "personality" (meh, need a better word).

"Hello Pot, this is Mr Kettle" wink

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


Chronofracture333Hobo Gaylord
329 posts
Location: I am worldwide and lush


Posted:
Where is this gay community, why do I never get a newsletter?



The grouping of very different people under these sorts of general titles is actually the sort of language that concerns me. It suggests much that isn't true and helps prevent true communication and understanding.



Ideally I don't want tolerance and acceptance of my sexuality, these are things that you actively have to do. It implies that secretly it still disturbs you. I'd rather it just be invisible. Nobody tolerates and accepts my blue eyes. Nor does anyone define me by them....



meditate

*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"


Neon_ShaolinGOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam


Posted:
 Written by: Stout



Thing is, we, the straight community are getting mixed messages here. Back in tho oh so politically correct 1990's, when everyone who could, revelled in a sense of victimhood and complained that theie lives were miserable to to the actions, words and thoughts of us, the straight white male .A lot of fuss was made about the nature of language and communication with an air trying to "correct" just how we related to each other.

I'm not really fighting for gay rights per say, I'm more amazed that the gay community just rolled over and put all four paws in the air at ( what I percieve as a ) new meaning of the word gay. That's the mixed message I'm getting.




Those 'mixed messages' are just a sign of the times changing. Back then, when gays were still fighting for acceptance and want to be acknowledged as being part of society and that their activities weren't something to be clased as criminal - even after it was legalised and stuck off the mental illness register - and trying to overcome the stigma of AIDS. Section 28 a law which was put in place by the Thatcher government that makes it illegal for a local education authority to 'Promote Homosexuality' in schools. Meaning that it was not included in sex education and it was unlawful to say something like 'its okay to be gay' which effectively mde it impossible to combat homophobic bullying in the manner where its easily to deal with racist bullying.

That law has only recently been repealed. Times have changed, gay is now everywhere. It is so common place that you have openly gay children's TV presenters, a transexual can win Big Brother, Queer Eye for the Straight guy is now prime timeviewing and you can buy Will & Grace at ASDA/Walmart. Brokeback Mountain was a contender for Best Picture at the Oscars. Most importantly - kids can come out at high school without devastating consequences. Even though there is still homophobia it's now been gradually accepted into the mainstream.

But with acceptance an assimilation, there comes a price. In essence, an underground culture has been unearthed and made populists. Big corporations now market themselves to 'the pink pound'. The gay scenes have become popular and have become homogenised and somewhat sterile. There has also been a feeling of gays being treated less like humans but as issue-crusading ego boost or fashion accessory of the week (how many annoying girls have you heard say 'oh I've always wanted a gay friend!' Yes we are accepted but as people or as a status symbol - for good and bad.

Gay people now feel like - 'yes we are accepted but we want to be accepted as individuals, defined by our personality quirks, tastes in music interests etc, by our strengths, and just as importantly by our flaws.' Because we as people make mistakes. To make mistakes is to be human. How much more of a mistake is it than to allow ourselves to be privy to the use of an expression which has long been an element of oppression but now adopt it into our own venacular using it like its negative use but in the manner of a nonchalant friendly jibe.

 Written by: Stout



So now it's OK for straight people to use gay as a negative?? I don't care how the gay community uses it, that's their choice. As to how it's used here on Hop, well that's a different matter too. Now, I'm well aware that most of you actually know each other in person, and may well have insights into each others attitudes when it comes to homophobia, but to a guy like me, who's just on one end of an internet connection, I lack these insights.






It's human nature to challenge ourselves, to test our limits. Even if the edge isn't supposed to be desirable - like we watch horror films, partake in extreme sports FIRE SPIN. In this case, the use of a series of words which is SUPPOSED to hurt us. But it doesn't. Like watching a horror movie we need to seek out danger in order to know we can survive it. Now the more the homophobes call it us, the more we realise - we survive it. So them we use it ourselves against ourselves, against our straight friends, a subverse of the norm. And guess what - they survive it too. Friendship is built on trust. Trust is allowing someone to be in a position to hurt you knowing they won't. We call ourselves the name given to us by our oppressors and survive. We call it at our straight friends -THEY survive, they call it back to us WE survive.

So now you can say we use it alot to remind us of the bridge we have built, that we are friends for a reason and one of us being gay hasn't been an obstacle to that friendship. Sure, it's still an issue as something so intrinsically integral to ourselves is expected to be, but its an issue that even these people can't see why there's still such a fuss over!


 Written by: Stout



Do you figure I should just drop the whole thing ?





Not for the sake of dropping it, if you still have issues then lets hear them. How else are we gonna learn from you or you from us. Despite my bloody-mindedness on the subject you still bring up points and perspectives i;ve not even thought about. If you think we've made a mistake TELL US. That's what calling each other derogatorily contexted phrasesis about - it's a sign that its okay to challenge each other as friends and individuals...

soapbox Bloody hell its high up up here!

Shall all just hug kiss and make up? grouphug peace

Sod that I'm gonna beat the crap out of you on Tekken ya big gay!!! nana biggrin devil spank mad2

meditate

weavesmiley

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
*sigh*

I hope people don't class me purely by my sexuality. God that'd be gay.

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


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