Page: ......
RicheeBRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic


Posted:
I'll not name, but here are people using word 'gay', to

have fun from others, but I think it is quite unfair.



Sexual orientation is personal thing and someone

can feel accused. Have fun, but talk moral.



no comment,



:R

POI THEO(R)IST


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
stout, I don't think it is condescending. It's just a word that means crap, poo, lame.
I don't say the word gay. In fact it annoys me a bit. But I don't instantly think that whoever said "that's gay" is a homophobe.
Basically, people are using the word "gay" to mean unsatisfactory. smile there.

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


Twiggymember
162 posts
Location: Birmingham, UK


Posted:
In primary school calling things gay(crap) was only too natural. I'm pretty sure I didn't actually fully understand the concept of being gay and how it could be seen as offensive to those who are.

It wears off quickly too. I dont believe i called anything gay in a long time.
We've got emo's to blame things on now biggrin

NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
 Written by: jo_rhymes


stout, I don't think it is condescending. It's just a word that means crap, poo, lame.




I mean who could possibly get offended that their sexual orientation has been redefined to mean "crap, poo, lame"?

rolleyes

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


MikeGinnyGOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA


Posted:
He says, "crap, poo, lame" like it's a bad thing.

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
 Written by: mcp


What about replacing 'gay' with other hilarious words that are fun to say?

I think we should have a poll.

The words have to fit into these patterns:

You are straight

That's straight

I would learn that, if it wasn't so totally straight



Hmmm... doesn't quite fit.
I also find this very offensive mind you - I refuse to have my sexuality assigned to a negative thing... Honest wink

(I can't remember if I'm currently gay or not - I think I am, as Strugz and Meg keep pointing this out to me, however my girlfriend is un-decided)

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


Neon_ShaolinGOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam


Posted:
 Written by: Stout


Gay people should show a little self respect and fight the condescending and deragatory use of this word, starting now.



Who's to say we DON'T have self-respect? It's a word. Word has a power that you can say we are trying to take back for ourselves and those who respect us in a self-depricating manner from the people who would use it in a completely detrimental manner .

Sexuality is a part of us but in an ideal world it should matter litte. Hence us trying to belittle the importance of it being used in a negative context...

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock


StoutBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada


Posted:
Jo, yes they are using it to mean lame, but somehow the word has taken on that meaning as a defense against the user being accused as homophobic.

If I were gay, I'd be pissed off about my lifestyle being equated with lameness.

mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
cool! Nice one durbs, that's a cool new even more insulting word to use. Nice one.



I can't believe someone as straight as you managed to come up with it! biggrin



neon: I think we should use it all we like, and never ever let straight people use it. And by straight, I mean heterosexual, not lame.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


Neon_ShaolinGOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam


Posted:
Yeah - straight can be a negative too...



'Straight' - linear, boring, dull, unimaginative, non-tangent etc...



I don't remember law-biding citizens and geometric shapes being in an uproar when 'Square' was used as a negative...



Wasn't there a time when 'Lame' meant 'disabled', I don't hear any disabled people still harping on about a word meaning 'disabled' as a general negative slur? Excessive use has down de-powered it to the point of impotence and now acceptance...

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
Yeah but disabled people couldn't get up in arms.... like the word spastic... those people couldn't get offended by the use of the word. Or retard, or moron, or .... er.... invalids.... ?

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


Neon_ShaolinGOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam


Posted:
point taken and bitten me in the ass...

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock


_Clare_BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)


Posted:
Ermm...



I haven't read all ten pages of this thread...



And I probably don't have anything to add...



But... this sounds like another argument about the meaning of words...



So...



Here's some more words that don't mean wot they used to...



Wicked... Used to mean evil/bad. Now means cool.



Chill... Used to mean quite cold. Now means relax.



Gay.... Used to mean happy and joyous. Then referred to homosexuals (which is a bit insulting, I thought). Now means (for some people) rubbish. shrug



Fanny... Used to be a popular girl's name... Now means female bits.



More here:

https://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=702366&lastnode_id=0



Here's some words that mean the same as they always did...



Homo/hetrosexual.





shrug



smile

Getting to the other side smile


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: Neon_Shaolin


point taken and bitten me in the ass...



I thought I was comically backing up your point?

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


robnunchucksBRONZE Member
enthusiast
363 posts
Location: manchester uk


Posted:
how about?

You are a F%£k

and

That's F£$ked

that way we discriminate against all sexualitys equaly smile

My nunchucks vital statictics biggrin

weight: 500g
handle lenght: 16 inches
chain length: 2 inches


Neon_ShaolinGOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam


Posted:
And I thought you were dismissing my whole 'nobody cares about people using words meaning 'disabled' as negative slurs' argument by bringing up 'retard' Which has still a bone of contention in America from what I've read.



I have no idea whether disabled people are still sensitive about that word or whether they themselves are arguing between themselves about overly-PC attitudes and retaining the right to call themselves retards.



I'm just gonna plead ignorance and spank myself spank

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock


ben-ja-menGOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia


Posted:
so just to clarify is anyone who thinks that the use of the term gay to mean lame or otherwise actually gay?

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?


newgabeSILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia


Posted:
Clarify? Ben would you like to rephrase that in grammatical and possibly even comprehensible English? Or is this an example of *gay* poetry? wink

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....


StoutBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada


Posted:
Neon Shaolin, I see your point..The gay community is attemting damage control, it might just work, but I doubt it.

The whole idea of accepting "gay" as a negative or an insult is, IMO counterproductive to the whole idea of tolerance and acceptance.

mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: Neon_Shaolin


And I thought you were dismissing my whole 'nobody cares about people using words meaning 'disabled' as negative slurs' argument by bringing up 'retard' Which has still a bone of contention in America from what I've read.



Isn't that cos most americans are... oh no wait, that would be racist.

I think people did get antsy... but then they changed the name of spastics to scope patients or some such. And morons and idiots didn't care enough obviously.

But the analogy doesn't really hold because there is a huge negative associated with all those words, the lower intelligence it implies.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


Neon_ShaolinGOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam


Posted:
Ben: Yes I am gay. Blind deaf and dead people know that. So just ask me out already! tongue I think most of the people arguing FOR being allowed to use it are gay, and their friends and mothers too. tongue Oh God, I'm having flashbacks to that godawful, deux ex machina/dead poets ending of 'In & Out'



Stout: If nothing we do matters then all that matters is what we do...



Meg: I remember it being on the news when they changed the name of the spastics Society but 'Spaz' is still in general use with minimal fuss...

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock


ben-ja-menGOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia


Posted:
 Written by: newgabe


Clarify? Ben would you like to rephrase that in grammatical and possibly even comprehensible English? Or is this an example of *gay* poetry? wink


ubblol its silent grammar you read it but dont write it, its like totally fab wink

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
I think gay people getting in an uproar about the new use of the word gay would be too predictable, boring, normal and well straight really. And quite lame.

This approach is much more fun.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
To add another factor which I think is relevent.

I believe the CONTEXT of the situation is important as well. We live in a society where gays are opressed, beaten and even killed for their sexual orientation. I think that has some relevance to this arguement.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
Maybe Brits don't see the point because they're brainwashed by their homophobic media.

At least that's what the Brits think.

wink

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


Neon_ShaolinGOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam


Posted:
Homophobic killers will kill gays regardless of whether or not we use 'gay' as an insult.

The approach we are using doesn't shy away from prejudice and pretend it doesn't happen, it confronts you with it and forces you to think - what are you offended by? The word itself? What it implied - i.e. sodomy? Weakness? Why are you offended by it? Does being called 'gay' offend you because it shouldn't be something used as a negative or because it implies that being gay is weak and degrading?

Gay people shouldn't be victims as a 'race'. Again I reiterate the idea that its excessive ironic use here between friends (specifically that a gay person would repeatedly call their straight friend 'gay' is a subversion of its 'normal' useage) demeans its power for when a genuine homophobe or straight person uses it with genuine malice without irony.

HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION
Try a different way of thinking. Specifically with its use on HOP and the influence it MAY have. Young person sees the word 'gay' being used in the way it has been - in friendly jest - is TOUCHED by the level of friendish and camaderie ironically from the insults that they themselves feel okay to use it with THEIR friends. Homophobes would TRY use it
against said gay but due to its excessive use, it no longer has any power over them. Homophobes could either get bored and give up, or decide that 'Gay's aren't so bad, they have a sense of humour'. If they intend to beat up or kill a gay, I don't think any measures put in place in our internet etiquette is gonna change that...

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
Well would you go up to a black guy and tell him not to use the N word? I wouldn't.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


StoutBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada


Posted:
Wasn't Queer as Folk originally a British tv series?

Neon Shaolin, I'm not personally offended by the way the word is being used, but I'm not gay. But if I were, I'd be offended due to both of the reasons you questioned above.

It's not really about existing homophobes, it's about creating new ones. I get the "subversion" idea, but I think it's the wrong idea. Sure a few straight people may think hey, these gays have a sense of humour, but those are going to be a minority. Mostly it's going to be the young and impressionable who are going to pick up on the idea that being gay is not ok.

I dunno know about in the UK, but the fact that our school system has the program I mentioned earlier in place, leads me to believe that the negative usage of the word gay isn't confined solely to the internet. It's not HoPers I'm concerned about.

Lemme fire this up on an American message board and see what they have to say.

NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
 Written by: mcp


Well would you go up to a black guy and tell him not to use the N word? I wouldn't.



That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about going up to a WHITE guy and telling him not to use the N word.

Actually, it's more like...

What if we all started using the word "Negro" for Meg's example. Like if some says something really stupid we'll say they're acting "Like a Negro."

No, no... it's cool because my one black friend said he thought it was funny.

rolleyes

I don't think that anybody here can speak for the millions of gays that are opressed and shamed on a daily basis. I would like to show them respect by not using their sexuality as an insult.

I work with kids every day, and in a High school of a thousand kids there are usually like TWO openly gay kids which means there are MANY more that are too ashamed, embarassed, uncomfortable and afraid to acknowlege their sexuality. I don't think it's fair to them for me or anybody else to use their sexuality as an insult.

That's my opinion. I know by the lack of tolerance and sensitivity I've seen in most places that I'm in the minority and there's not much I can do to change that globally.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


Neon_ShaolinGOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam


Posted:
**************DISCLAIMER*************************
Another hypothetical arguement. Because I do believe its important to the point I am trying to make I will not be blanking out the word 'Nigger'. If you feel if necessarily to report me to the moderators then do so. I merely want to express and opinion and I feel that covering up the word 'Nigger' just as much an insult to those it has been used against as the usage itself.

This theorhetical conversation is merely my own hypothesis with no basis in fact but an 'educated theory'. I accept responsibility for my own opinion and apologise if it offends or patronises anyone. This is not supposed to encapsulate every balck person but perhaps to understand why those who would use the word might do.

WHITE PERSON: I don't like you using the word 'Nigger'
BLACK PERSON: Why not?
WHITE: It is offensive
BLACK: Why
WHITE: It was used as a derogatory term for black slaves by their white masters during slavery.
BLACK: You gave us the name, we're taking it back.
WHITE: But it was used by racists ever since.
BLACK: Does it make you feel uncomfortable guilty about the way we were treated back then?
WHITE: Yes
BLACK: Does it remind you of slavery and racism every time I use it?
WHITE: Yes.
BLACK: Do you think the slave trade and apartheid should ever be forgotten?
WHITE: No...
BLACK: After all we suffered, forgiveness aside, do you think we deserve a LITTLE bit of retribution by momentarily making you uncomfortable about the thought of what was suffered at your hands - encapsulated whenever we use just ONE word. For us, and us alone to use....?
WHITE: I'll get back to you on that...

"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock


HealthyTouchProBRONZE Member
Member
18 posts
Location: Chicago, Il., USA


Posted:
Yes, there are places where homosexuality is Illegal and you can be Imprisoned, Beaten and Hanged for it. India for one as well as others.

Thanks, NYC for you attempt to enlighten the masses. ubbangel

Head in hands so much to learn...


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