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Posted:I've been spinning for awhile and have all the basic moves down, and I'd like to take my basic moves to a higher level. I'm working on BTB moves and antispin type stuffs, so...

I've watched the tuts on BTB weave waist wraps, and still can't figure out for the life of me how/where they get the poi moving in the first place. I can do regular BTB weaves just fine (working on turns now), but once you get me in the wall plane, I tend to hit myself in the legs a lot. ubbangel

Any of the more experienced spinners have tips or hints on doing moves in the wall plane, or BTB?

Cheers!


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Imbalance
GOLD Member since Sep 2005

Imbalance

not different, just not the same
Location: Charlotte, NC

Total posts: 263
Posted:honestly, I'd stop trying to get the waist wrap for the moment. Instead continue to work on the BTB weave and turns. Once you can do a full 360 in both directions and stay BTB the waist wrap will come easy. Why? because a waistwrap is pretty much a 180 BTB turn and turn back. At least thats how I learned it. Start a btb weave, turn 180 whichever direction, hold a sec and get steady, then turn back the way you came. So if you turn right first, turn back left. Once you can do this, speed it up a bit, don't pause as much at each end of the turn. Once this feels ok start trying to move your feet less. Do the turning with hips and shoulders and keep working on getting your hand around your waist. A waist wrap is essentially a BTB 180 turn without turning your feet, and the poi always spin in wall plane relative to your feet.

Hope that helps some.


I once learned every move that there was,
Every style, Every technique.
Then I woke up, and forgot it all,
So now I struggle to dream.

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted: Written by: Imbalance


A waist wrap is essentially a BTB 180 turn without turning your feet,



No, no it's not.
A behind the back half waistwrap is made up of:
- a wallplane circle on the left, in front of your body (right arm crossed behind your back).
- a wallplane circle behind your body.
- a wallplane circle on the right, in front of your body (left arm crossed behind your back).
- a carry back to the first circle.
Obviously this pattern can be reversed to have a circle on the right first if your poi are going the other way.

That's probably not very helpful, but have a look here, particularly lesson 17 - waist circles and waist wraps, it's got very useful descriptions and diagrams.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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BlueHairSar


stranger
Location: New York, USE

Total posts: 22
Posted:I'm in the process of working on this one, and do not have it yet. Out of curiousity, have you gotten butterfly waist wraps yet? For me, the butterfly waist wrap was fairly easy to learn once you got the trick to; I know this is different for everyone, but if you're having trouble with the weave, you might want to try working on the butterfly for a bit.

I think waist wraps are the same of all moves in that you should try it one hand at a time on each side until you feel really comfortable with that, and then work your way up to the full move. Also, I would recomend working with a 2bt weave first, and then working up to 3bt, if you so desire.


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Posted:Yeah, actually I found the butterfly waist wraps pretty easy. Got em with about 10 minutes practice. But the weave seems a bit harder for me because of the arm crossing (which you don't do as much of with butterfly), I have problems controlling the poi that way.

I'll experiment some and see if I come out in one piece.


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Danny_
GOLD Member since Aug 2005

Danny_

.
Location: Brighton

Total posts: 95
Posted:i think imbalance and thebovrilmonkey, you both described the same thing. the only difference being, thebovril monkey says that the top half of your body should not move. as with a waist wraps in front of your body, it's easier to learn when you move your body more, and as you get comfortable you do not have to move as much.

but i didn't find trying one hand at a time helpful at all. it was helpful to learn both BTB weaves, but wasn't helpful in learning the waist wraps. but that's just me.

but i still can't grasp a btb butterfly waist wrap.

i'd suggest following imbalances advice, and learning both btb weaves and getting the turns comfortable.


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87wt2gxq7


87wt2gxq7

veteran
Location: Birmingham

Total posts: 1502
Posted: Written by: dannydevil


i think imbalance and thebovrilmonkey, you both described the same thing. the only difference being, thebovril monkey says that the top half of your body should not move. as with a waist wraps in front of your body, it's easier to learn when you move your body more, and as you get comfortable you do not have to move as much.



I don't think imbalance and thebovrilmonkey are describing the same thing. The key difference is the CARRY. Once you've done the circle on the left, behind your back, and then on the right (with both poi - the left leads the right in this orientation), you carry the left poi straight over to the left side, right poi follows. There's no extra circle behind the back which would make it a forward-to-backward-to-forward-again-btb-weave-in-wallplane.


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Danny_
GOLD Member since Aug 2005

Danny_

.
Location: Brighton

Total posts: 95
Posted:ok, so one is a
forward-to-backward-to-forward-again-btb-3bt-weave-in-wallplane,

the other is
forward-to-backward-to-forward-again-btb-2bt-weave-in-wallplane.

yes? as a 2 beat weave always has the same poi leading, but the 3 beat weave has the extra circle(s) to change which poi is leading.

something like that anyway. one has less beats, but are both the same kinda motion in the same way as a 2 beat and 3 beat weave are pretty much the same motion. makes sense to start on the simpler one, but to me the more complex one seems easier, as it gives a little more time to think about 'turning' or changing which side of your body you are spinning on.

a little bit too complicated an argument for what it's worth. they're similar, but not the same.


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87wt2gxq7


87wt2gxq7

veteran
Location: Birmingham

Total posts: 1502
Posted:Yes, I think that's right except I think a btb waistwrap is more accurately described as forward-to-backward-3bt-weave-followed-by-backward-to-forward-2bt-weave.-In-wallplane.-And-btb.-With-chips.

So you're right, one hand leads the entire movement as opposed to a 3bt where you do have to change which hand leads.

 Written by: dannydevil

one has less beats, but are both the same kinda motion in the same way as a 2 beat and 3 beat weave are pretty much the same motion.


That's how I see it yeah. But where i'm at with waistwraps right now the beauty is in the difference, not the similarity meditate


 Written by: dannydevil

a little bit too complicated an argument for what it's worth. they're similar, but not the same.


Yeah, you're probably right. It took about four months to get what people meant by the 'carry' (2bt) part that made it a ww, and no matter how many times people said it I still didn't get it. Until I saw it for myself.


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Imbalance
GOLD Member since Sep 2005

Imbalance

not different, just not the same
Location: Charlotte, NC

Total posts: 263
Posted:yes you are quite right, its not EXACTLY a btb 3bt weave turn. The carry does interrupt that. Its actually only half of one. If left poi is leading then you would essentially turn 180 (turning to your left) and then reset back with the carry. However the reason I said what I did is because thats the way I learned it. By learning full 360 turns in btb weave. I stand by my point that if you learn that first, the waist wrap will come much much easier then if you go for it first prior to the BTB weave turn.

Sorry I should have probably interjected about the whole 2bt similarity and all, but when I've shown other people the move I've told them the same thing about the btb turn and to not worry about the waist wrap at first as it will come after learning the btb turn. As you get more comfortable with it you learn to turn your body less and let your arms/hands/wrists etc do the work by reaching around your body.


I once learned every move that there was,
Every style, Every technique.
Then I woke up, and forgot it all,
So now I struggle to dream.

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87wt2gxq7


87wt2gxq7

veteran
Location: Birmingham

Total posts: 1502
Posted:yup. fair nuff.

I haven't got the hang of 180, let alone 360 turns with btb weave n i do my wws without turning my body so it seems we've got different styles..


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BlueHairSar


stranger
Location: New York, USE

Total posts: 22
Posted:okay okay, i finally got a 2bt weave btb waist wrap on one side... still have to work on the others, but it's a start.

First thing is to get compfortable doing on pass in wall plane (the waist wrap one) and then on behind you, then back to the waist wrap. It seems that planes are the most important part of this, so really consentrate on keeping your planes even. If it helps, think of having the poi pass as close to your ankles as possible w/o hitting them.

One thing that was especially helpful to me was , if i hit myself, consentrating on correcting it so the next pass would NOT hit me, and I could keep going.

Once you've got that, start working throwing the othe arm in there. I initially found that consentrating on following the waist wrapping arm with my other arm helped me set the timing right, so until i cleared that first waistwrap, i just kept the other arm out of the way... Once I got the feeling of it, i could start it more "normally" which was starting swinging my poi in same time in front of me. Becuase of that pass behind you, when you come around for the waist wrap, you'll magically be in split time! Whee!


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Posted:Hmmm. I may try that same-time idea.

I have the basic movement down for the 2bt BTB weave ww now, but I keep hitting myself in the legs on the ww in front (I'm not impacting my legs in the wrap itself--I'm hitting myself in the lower legs because my planes aren't even. My circles aren't vertical).

Any tips for keeping your circles clean? If I sit there and do it with one hand long enough, eventually the circle will clean itself up. However, when I try a clean start for a weave (one handed or two, doesn't matter), I hit my legs again. It only happens once I'm in front post-wrap.


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Seabadger


member


Total posts: 25
Posted:I just got my 1st full waist wrap today (still very chuffed).

I never managed the btb half on its own but once I'd strung it together with the infront waist wrap there was enough momentum to manage it.


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Posted:You know...I'd never actually thought of learning the front waist wraps first. I should do that.

I have been practicing with one hand on the BTB version, and working on cleaning up my planes in hopes that it will help when I put both hands back together. I had my second burn last night, and wished so badly that I could do waist wraps, but I'm too afraid of hitting myself with those.


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BlueHairSar


stranger
Location: New York, USE

Total posts: 22
Posted:Okay, I got the full one, and had never practiced that fwd btb waist wrap (which resulted in me wacking myself in the boob good number of times) but yea...

when first working on it, it's important to consentrate on your plane for the pass before the one that you hit yourself on. Like, if you're hitting your leg in the waist warp, then you can correct that by making sure that the btb pass before it is clean (and the best way to ensure that is to make sure the head of the poi passes as close to your ankles as you can get it w/o hitting them.

And you do need to turn your body a bit with each on, so don't be afraid to do that to keep your plane clean and from hitting you.


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Posted:I did the front version of this weave in about five minutes, but I think mostly because I don't have to turn my body when doing it. I still have issues getting the poi all the way around cleanly--maybe I should grow longer arms? ubbidea

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Seabadger


member


Total posts: 25
Posted: Written by: BlueHairSar


Like, if you're hitting your leg in the waist warp, then you can correct that by making sure that the btb pass before it is clean .



I had issues with hitting my legs too, now I often finish the wrap standing on one leg having moved the other!! ubblol


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