Forums > Social Discussion > Panic on the streets of London....

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Nonky
Nonky

member
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 8th Jun 2006
Total posts: 44
Posted:I can't help but feel that the latest annoucement by MI5 in the UK, is pure propoganda designed to keep us all on 'edge'.

After all a nation who lives in fear is easier to control and manipulate.Tougher and more restrictive laws can be brought in with virtually no opposition as its 'to protect us against Terror' - bullshit (IMO)

Am I just too cynical though? Do you think there really is a 'serious' threat to the UK right now? (Figues quoted were 1,600 Terrorist suspects, 30 so called 'active plots' and 'high risk' of an imminent attack)


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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:And that latest announcement was what?
Im in Australia right now, and as so, I havent heard anything from back home..

confused


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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:there was an article about that in todays paper and i'm in australia too UCOF wink

if i recall rightly there were a few too many "possible" and "potential"s used in the article to really make me beleive the numbers were accurate.


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:Something along the lines of "Arrrrrrrrrrrrghhh we're all going to die in horrific terrorist activities - DON'T PANIC! Reapeat - DON'T PANIC - We're all going to die...Possibly"

A bit like the whole bird flu debacle, only slightly more plausible.

Pah - no news like "no news" hey? wink


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted:What is interesting, is that the media don't seem to care about events like the UKs biggest aims haul from a private house, yet when there is a raid on a house that a "former senior British Army Intelligence Officer with decades of anti-terror and explosives experience, declares to be 'fiction'." they talk about it for days.

What they should really be talking about is why there is no proper inquiry in to the Iraq war.

IMHO, wikinews and blogs that cite sources are the only place to get news from.


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:and IMHO, Sym is the only place to get news from ubblol

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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TinklePants
TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2005
Total posts: 4217
Posted:and IMHO, Hop delivers my morning news!! biggrin

Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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marco
enthusiast
Location: uk
Member Since: 27th May 2004
Total posts: 328
Posted:
"After all a nation who lives in fear is easier to control and manipulate"

Yep, thats it, thats the one, keep up the faith.

Mark


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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:Whether the storyis true, exaggerated, or completely made up, ( I'll assume that we're all on the same page here, even though the OP didn't contain a cite ) it's a pretty good indication that the UK is pretty screwed up place.

Jut actually WHAT do you figure your government is trying to control and manipulate you to actually do and think ?

Like the US, it's on my list of places that I'm glad I don't live.


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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:cause canada is so much better

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted: Written by: stout

Jut actually WHAT do you figure your government is trying to control and manipulate you to actually do and think ?



many things.

1) That we are the good guys.
2) That they are the bad guys.
3) That the economy will continue to grow and be strong for the next 20 years at least.

I could go on. wink


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:Yep, Canada's great, no handguns, good healthcare, we've never invaded anybody, and nobody hates us. smile

Sym I can see the good guys, bad guys thing ,America's famous for this kind of thinking, with their wars on, well, pretty much everything. That's one thing about being patriotic, you need an enemy to measure yourself against.

But how could having a controlled and fearful society be good for the economy ? I'm not being facetious here, just curious.


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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:so then you're so very patriotic right
saying canada is the best
need some butter to go with the sliced bread
lol


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted: Written by: stout


But how could having a controlled and fearful society be good for the economy ? I'm not being facetious here, just curious.



That was in reply to

 Written by: stout


Jut actually WHAT do you figure your government is trying to control and manipulate you to actually do and think ?




I didn't actually mean that having a controlled and fearful society will lead to it.


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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Birgit
Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 27th Jan 2005
Total posts: 4145
Posted:I get the feeling that the UK government LOVES people to be worried. Or at least the media and whoever controls them if it's not the government.



Like: "We have fat kids because the weather is bad and they don't want to play outside." - "But the sun is shining." - "In that case, tell them not to go out because they'll get skin cancer."



I suppose it's easier to get people to forget about things like 18 month waiting lists for neurologist appointments when they're too busy being scared (or excited for the last one) by food additives, bird flu, terrorism and mortgage rates.


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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Gnarly Cranium
Gnarly Cranium

member
Location: San Francisco
Member Since: 16th Feb 2005
Total posts: 186
Posted:The US is infecting the UK, is what's happening. First Blair turns into Bush's croney, and it's been downhill from there, from everything I've heard. They're starting to use on you the same fearmongering they've been brainwashing us with for years.

As for what they're trying to manipulate the people into doing? Simple. Distract them with a scapegoat so they don't pay attention to the real problems (like lying politicians, screwed voting systems, and global warming). Frighten them so they turn to the government for help, and are actually grateful when their civil liberties are taken away. Makes it a lot easier for them to lock up anybody they don't like, and to change laws to make as much money as they can possibly get away with.

Canada is far from immune either. Remember how Canadian airport security crapped their pants over an ipod-- sounds just like the US.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread...11166&sid=1


"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

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alien_oddity
alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees
Member Since: 31st Dec 2004
Total posts: 7193
Posted: Written by: Nonky


I can't help but feel that the latest annoucement by MI5 in the UK, is pure propoganda designed to keep us all on 'edge'.

After all a nation who lives in fear is easier to control and manipulate.Tougher and more restrictive laws can be brought in with virtually no opposition as its 'to protect us against Terror' - bullshit (IMO)

Am I just too cynical though? Do you think there really is a 'serious' threat to the UK right now? (Figues quoted were 1,600 Terrorist suspects, 30 so called 'active plots' and 'high risk' of an imminent attack)




it's just another way for BABYLON to crack down harder on other crimes, an excuse to use excesive force. EVERYONE is being monitored, phone lines listened in on and internet chat being watched!!!!

nobody ever said the third world way would be a "normal" war, it's a technilogical war, a war with unknown enemy strengths and tactics the "modern world" cant account for


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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:I never claimed Canada was the best, but you're more than welcome to think that I inferred it. I'm too lazy do do and research right now, but I have a feeling I could make the same claims about New Zealand. Plus, there's places in Canada that are also on my list of places I'm glad I don't live.

I still can't make the connection between a controlled and fearful society and any benefits to the economy simply because I can't think of any examples where a controlled society has been a productive one. I can however, cite examples of controlled societies that didn't do too well. Russia? ,,heck,, the whole eastern bloc, N. Korea, China until recently......

I don't see the logic of a government creating an enemy like a terrorist threat just to keep the public under control but that's not my point, My point is to explore said governments possible motivations.

Maybe MI5 is just about to ask for a large funding increase, and releasing a document like they did might just get it for them.

Birgit. yes it could be the media, remember "if it bleeds, it leads" but I doubt it works. Would you be distracted by a terrorist threat enough to ignore your mortgage rate ? Given that this is indeed the information age, we have more than enough "issues" to keep us involved,we sort out our own priorities.

Gnarly....terrorism threats are nothing new in the UK. Are you distracted by the scapegoating tactics ??? I didn't think so, so why assume that "people" are. Do you have some special insight as to your governments motivations ? Or is that really just a guess ?

Ravehead, you figure you're in the middle of the third world war ? No wonder your paranoid about this babylon thing. Ever wonder how much manpower it would take to moniter EVERYONE ?


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Gnarly Cranium
Gnarly Cranium

member
Location: San Francisco
Member Since: 16th Feb 2005
Total posts: 186
Posted:It's not the 'economy' in general that benefits. It's a question of whether the rich get richer. All this middle east fuss is -fantastic- for the oil companies-- just look at what we've been paying for gas lately. The war brings up oil prices AND keeps us distracted from issues like global warming and alternative energy at the same time. Not to mention how the whole Iraq thing is basically a nice present for the industrial corporations that got all the juicy contracts over there-- corporations whose leaders are bestest buddies with US leaders and have been for generations. The poor get poorer, join the military since they think it's the only way to get money or have any chance at college, and get paid crap for getting SHOT AT while protecting the much higher-paid contractors from the corporations who are the reason the poor were poor to begin with. Round and round it goes. It's a very efficient system, and now they're getting other countries in on the action too.



I personally may not be 'distracted' or buying into the fearmongering and hype, but is it working on other people? You BET it is. I've seen how this country has changed since 9-11... they rub it in our faces on the news every single day, it's all fear this and terror that and what if they blow up this, and American flags turn up everywhere-- stickers, shirts, posters, every available surface... there's a tone of hysteria that's seeping in, just looking at the laws that have been getting passed here lately you can tell people are freaking out and not paying attention to hardly anything rational.

EDITED_BY: Gnarly Cranium (1163286850)


"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:Keeping the public in fear of imminent attack as a way to justify what's going on in Iraq ? Ok, I'll buy that. So that patriotic fervor is STILL going on in America ? Wow

Up here, terrorism is really just another item in the news, I mean we did go to yellow or something alert when the London bombings happened, but nobody really knew what it meant. And yes, we do have the paranoid airline security, the whole world does,,,thanks Bin Ladin

So terrorism's really dominant enough in the news to act as a serious distraction,,,,interesting,. I do scope out the right wing online newspaper every couple of days, and they have a section on terrorism but for some strange reason they're not carrying this story.

Maybe this story is cowspoo, I dunno , and the "justification" explanation may be only one of several.

How's the rest of Europe dealing with this issue in relation to the US and Britain? Are the Germans, Swiss, French.....all being fed this kind of info by their governments and news media too ?


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animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:So, if there's 1600 terrorist suspects, and 30 active plots that they know about, why haven't they stopped them?

Surely there should be NO plots etc that they know about, otherwise they're not really doing their job very well...

shrug

Or am I mistaken?


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:You're mistaken, LTC, it's MI5's job to react to threats after they've been presented ( so far ) but that's what all the fuss about the whole police state idea is about. MI5 probably doesn't have enough evidence to actually stop the "plots"

There's no info on what the plots actually are, they could just be something stupid like that 14 year old girl in California who had a "kill Bush" thing on her myspace ( she was interveiwed by the secret service ) or simply information given by people on other people they don't like.

Here's an interesting article pertaining to what I was saying yesterday about wanting an increase in funding


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Groovy_Dream
Groovy_Dream

addict

Member Since: 26th May 2005
Total posts: 449
Posted: Written by: TinklePants


and IMHO, Hop delivers my morning news!! biggrin



I second that!


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: Liquifies_Through_Contact



So, if there's 1600 terrorist suspects, and 30 active plots that they know about, why haven't they stopped them?





It's because those commie hippies demand that there be 'evidence' and 'probable cause' and such.



tongue



Plus, they often wait until they have enough evidence to arrest the maximum number of people. Arresting one or two members is less effective than taking out the whole cell.



Plus it sounds scarier.



wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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The_Pirate_Dyke_Boy
The_Pirate_Dyke_Boy

HOP Lord of the Pirate Admiralty
Location: Canterbury, UK
Member Since: 5th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1079
Posted:yhe, but it does make snse to kill thew whole thing rather than just chop an arm off, i u know what i mean.

As for the news, what pisses me off is covering utterly unimportant bollox like Britney Spears divorce, and then telling us were all in trouble because the terrorist are gonna kill us all.
its just playing into the fundamentalists hands and itll make us all extremists in one way or another.
i do trust channel 4 though up to a point, john snow is good (though the poppy thing pissed me off)


D.B.
X x X x X

Ship off the starboard! sound general quarters! noise and light discipline! man the cannons! GET ME THE RUM!

Master of the Free Hug Program

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daize
daize

member
Location: Falmouth, Cornwall
Member Since: 29th Dec 2005
Total posts: 175
Posted:It all boils down to power, and the consiquences thereafter.

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted: Written by: Sym



What is interesting, is that the media don't seem to care about events like the UKs biggest aims haul from a private house, yet when there is a raid on a house that a "former senior British Army Intelligence Officer with decades of anti-terror and explosives experience, declares to be 'fiction'." they talk about it for days.





Hmm, this thread contains the views of a couple of other Simons trying to explain why the BNP thing hasn't been big news, mainly because it probably isn't. The BNP, hateful as they are, are more likely to make Party Political Broadcasts than launch chemical attacks and blow stuff up.



I'd also say you have to draw a distinction between government propaganda and the media circus, although obviously each effects the other to a great degree. You can't really blame the govt for what papers choose to say. Thats putting the cart before the horse.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:Now we live in a world where we have learned to accept that terrorism is just another part of life. It was the same in Desert Storm, all the news carried it everyday. In Ireland, there is constant news about paramilatary activity in Northern Ireland and the entire world of politics and religous struggle surrounding it. Everyone sees it but I guarantee you if you asked around in the south they would know very little other than what they heard on the news nor would they be really worried about it. Yet its civil war thats been going on in the north of our island since the British invaded and Michael Colins started blowing things up.



One of the effects it seems to have is that people become sort of immune to it, they dont get outraged enough to want to go do something about it. What it also does is scares people from going there... Stories in the news these days in Ireland and the UK talk alot about the 'mounting tension between muslims and everyone else' muggings and the rest. Also alot about the effect the new restrictions on flying are having and the mounting body count of allied troops in Iraq.



We now live in countries that go on 'orange' and 'red alert' and stout, your reaction to it is exactly what I'm trying to point out. The effect of all the media attention on terrorism and war isnt wholesale panic, very few people want that.But it isnt civil revolt either. Its kind of apathy mixed with an underlying fear, a backround noise thats just enough that everyone knows that its going on but its become so familiar that very few people are really doing anything about it.



The right wing readers already support the war no? They dont need to be scared into inaction. Not having any of that news in a paper like that sounds like the message is 'Hey, everything is ok, life is going on as normal. Life is not going on as normal anymore though. I cant get on a plane now with my asthma medication without having to worry about explaining it to somone. The rules say no liquids at all. If I want to drink something I have to buy it on the plane. This is a massive change in basic consumer rights in the name of international safety. It should be in the news and we should all be outraged. Outraged about the people inciting voilence and outraged about the way all these problems are being handled outraged about the kind of messages that are being sent to the public. Its the most succesful terrorist campaign in history and the media are carrying out the war for them. Whoever they are. I honeslty dont know who the terrorists are anymore. There are so many different kinds of terror to choose from.



a


Love is the law.

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted: Written by: ado-p


Its the most succesful terrorist campaign in history and the media are carrying out the war for them. Whoever they are. I honeslty dont know who the terrorists are anymore. There are so many different kinds of terror to choose from.



oh so true.


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:i don't know about history
what about the crusades, or the communist hunt


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:I never thought of them as terrorist campaigns. War, Jihad even but not terrorists in the context that this discussion means.

Its funny, I read somewhere that the next most succesful one was the 'Pro-life' campaign in the states. They bombed threatened and protested almost 80% of the clinics nationwide into closure at one stage. Wasnt much of that in the news though.


Love is the law.

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