MikefromGlos
MikefromGlos

Hitman
Location: Gloucester England
Member Since: 10th Jul 2006
Total posts: 985
Posted:First i need to give the reason for this little question

I have just come back from one of the two parafin supplyers in gloucester and the only one to have it on tap. During my day to day bussiness i made it my mission to go and get a msds so i could be safe.

I went in to the shop and had a 10 minture aruguement with the shop owener who was insistant that he did not have to supply me with one if i was buying his feul. Now i always thought that if i asked for one they had to give it to me

So the question is two fold

1. do they have to give me one
2. Has anyone else had the same problem


he he i am mike the amazing gloscircus person who is mike.

Officaly an exception to the Poi Boys are Girls Thing

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animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:MSDS? What is that?

And surely it would be AN Msds... wink


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:MSDS = Material Safety Data Sheet

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:1. no

2. no



i'm pretty sure that this isn't a law.



there are some materials that you are not allowed to transport without a msds but these are usually hazchems.



you said:

"Now i always thought that if i asked for one they had to give it to me"



where did you get that information from...?



this site seems to suggest that the most important law when selling paraffin is the weights and measures act.





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:I've never found these things to be practical at all. Sure there's lots on info on them, but how much of it is really relevant and useful. The medical treatment for all petroleum distillates is the same ( do not induce vomiting ) but details, like flashpoint, vapour pressure, and density really don't mean much unless you're very familiar with the concepts, and need to make comparisons with other fuels.

They do look good if the "authorities" come calling though.

Here in Canada, the retailers are required to provide a MSDS for all chemicals sold, I've got a couple ,one for white gas, one for kerosene, but I find all the practical and pertinent safety information is readily available here, on HOP


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Why wouldn't you just look it up online? It certainly wouldn't have taken 10 minutes. There are thousands of free MSDS websites. If I wasn't on a break in a meeting I'd find one for you myself.

Do you also demand an MSDS when filling up your car?

wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Irinus
enthusiast
Location: London
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 222
Posted:I think I've used an MSDS off the internet before (when sorting out some safety forms) but it'd be nice to have one that was specifically for the brand you are using.



Does anyone know (any chemists out there?) how much variablilty there is between different manufacturers re: flash points etc?



Oh, and I wouldn't worry too much about the medical info on there (as Stout said). As long as you know:



1) What you were using and

2) What to do before the ambulance arrives (which you should tell the paramedics)



then the (UK) A&E doctor can call up a national hotline which'll tell him/her everything they need to know for treatment (especially if fuel has been ingested). Having said that, it'd still be good to have the information on hand as mistakes, of course, can happen (though these are mostly due to errors in communication rather than medical ignorance smile ).


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: Irinus



Does anyone know (any chemists out there?) how much variablilty there is between different manufacturers re: flash points etc?



I did a quick search on the Internet and found that all the MSDS sheets had the same:

Flash Point: 100 degrees F PM (minimum)
Autoignition Temperature: 410 degrees F

Do y'all not have the internet? wink

And despite the fact that kerosene is a general term for a cocktail I'd assume that most of the chemical properties are similar enough, especially those that deal with volatility which is how it's separated in the first place.

I'm sure that things like humidity and outside temperature have much more to do with how a fuel behaves than differences bewteen two things with the same name made by different companies. If an additive is used, it should be labeled differently.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Yakumo
Yakumo

veteran
Location: Oxfordshire
Member Since: 31st May 2006
Total posts: 1237
Posted:http://www.shellchemicals.com/msds/
br>
if that's any use. the manufacturers I think have to make them easily publicly available, not the retailers.


Blinded by Hyperlights, please donate generously grin

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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted: Written by: NYC


 Written by: Irinus



Does anyone know (any chemists out there?) how much variablilty there is between different manufacturers re: flash points etc?



I did a quick search on the Internet and found that all the MSDS sheets had the same:

Flash Point: 100 degrees F PM (minimum)
Autoignition Temperature: 410 degrees F





I am given an MSDS (on request) every time I buy fuel. But then, I get fuel from a wholesaler, not a corner store. And I am not buying kerosene.

The 'sameness' you mention, NYC is for various brands of kerosenes... there are of course many other fuels people use. Flashpoint is a very handly thing to know.


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Ooooh.. this is the info from HOP on MSDS'

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Kathain_Bowen
Kathain_Bowen

Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Member Since: 24th Jan 2006
Total posts: 422
Posted:According to what the Dad-type person has told me in the past (Dad-type person = chemical engineer/chemical plant manager) a company which produces the product in question, if requested by any party, must supply an MSDS for all hazardous materials or means of locating the relevent information.

However, he has also been quite quick to point out that laws vary from country to country regarding chemical manufacture. And he was also quite sure to note, on the side, that the company is not necessarily required to just mail you a printed copy. As long as they can provide you with some viable means to access the information, such as an online copy, the company's in fine stead, legally. So, if you contact the manufacturer, they can either provide you with a hard copy, an internet URL, or nothing, depending upon local law and their preference.

Case in point, the good people of Coleman : The Outdoor Company, put me on the phone with a wonderful lady who offered both. She offered to send me a paper copy, practically insisting, even after giving me the following URL, http://www.coleman.com/coleman/msds.asp.
br>
For the people playing the home game:
If you can't be bothered to call the manufacturer, or if your ordinances suck about MSDS provision, and you must have one, try this. Google the name of the company which produces your fuel, the name of the fuel, and MSDS on the end. Should be a lot faster and easier than harassing the corporate people for an MSDS.

G'luck.


"So long and thanks for all the fish."

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MikefromGlos
MikefromGlos

Hitman
Location: Gloucester England
Member Since: 10th Jul 2006
Total posts: 985
Posted:i finally manged to get one after several phone calls and got it mailed to me for free.

he he i am mike the amazing gloscircus person who is mike.

Officaly an exception to the Poi Boys are Girls Thing

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: Kathain_Bowen


According to what the Dad-type person has told me in the past (Dad-type person = chemical engineer/chemical plant manager) a company which produces the product in question, if requested by any party, must supply an MSDS for all hazardous materials or means of locating the relevent information.




There turns out to be a difference between a 'manufacturer' and a 'supplier.' Shell Petrol has clearly and readily MSDS for their gasoline. Doesn't mean that every petrol station needs to give one out whenever some overzealous customer demands it.

This thread started with a supplier being demanded. I can't imagine walking into a local mom and pop shop and demanding MSDS be kept on file for every chemical they sell.

They should certainly have information on the manufacturers, who can then be contacted for the information.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Kathain_Bowen
Kathain_Bowen

Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Member Since: 24th Jan 2006
Total posts: 422
Posted: Written by: NYC


 Written by: Kathain_Bowen


a company which produces the product in question



There turns out to be a difference between a 'manufacturer' and a 'supplier.'



Yeah.... I was having a problem with wording last night. I kept losing my train of thought everytime my new Adobe Creative Suite (*woohoo!) asked me to authorize a product update. Sorry. I assure you, it was worth the slamming derailment of everything I was trying to pay attention to for me to have new software.... at least.... in my eyes.

But, NYC, apparently, we are thinking along the same lines. Thanks for actually keeping your train of thoughts on track! biggrin


"So long and thanks for all the fish."

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Yeah and you should get all kinds of medical advice when you buy your bottle of Jack Daniels, too.



Valid point about the petrol stationas and filling up the tank of your car, NYC... also about the usage of online information...



Where's the point here?



Use more common sense = need less regulations. If unclear, ask on the spot. Definitions and terms of use should be clearly stated on the bottle... If off the tap shrug maybe you should be forced to have it filled into ONE specific, dedicated container, bearing all necessary informations [/irony]


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Kathain_Bowen
Kathain_Bowen

Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Member Since: 24th Jan 2006
Total posts: 422
Posted: Written by: FireTom


Yeah and you should get all kinds of medical advice when you buy your bottle of Jack Daniels, too.




... I wish. wink

(*side note.... I'm finding much more amusement off of that statement that I should, considering a good friend of mine, Katie, used to say she needed to "take her medicine" when we go to the bar)


"So long and thanks for all the fish."

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