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Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:G'day Mate !

oops... sorry ... am being Ozified here

hello beautiful people

I just wanted to share a realization with you and am really curious to hear your opinion.

so far I have always loved the fire gatheings, especially when tehre is good music (kudos to the drumming in Melburp by the way ).

but I get frustrated if that is all i do with my poi. I mean fire gatherings are wonderfull and nothing makes my soul smile more than to dance with fire, but I have to confess I am tired of doing just that.

i went to teh NZ juggling convention or even the jugglers meeting ehre in brisbane and all over the world. usually day time and non fire and I have to say : YAY...

I get to play more, be more creative and also interact more with people ...

you do not stop in the middle of a burn or stop someone in teh middle of theirs cause you wanna check out taht new move you just saw or thought of.. you can do that at jugglers meeting or Poi in the Park type ebvent (MISS YOU GUYS )

so just wondering if it is just me (lol... nah, I know dom agrees at least )

what do you think ?

shine on

"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"


Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:Yep, I agree.

Fire meetings are great but I miss the lighttime sessions that, for me at least, make it easier for more interaction between spinners.

Through my global wanderings I've been to so many fire gatherings that start well past dark, like 9/10pm. To me this is bizarre, as you could easily start earlier and have more spinning time with other people, but the common attitude seems to be "What's the point, it's not dark yet?"

These fire gatherings seem to be more people spinning in front of an audience of other spinners as opposed to a collective gathering.

Some cities strike a good balance, with lighttime meets as well as fire meets. And these cities (London and associated outposts , Brisbane and to some extent Auckland) have a noticeably higher level of spinning.

So, all you fire fanatics - you might have to wear sunglasses to get used to the daylight, but give it a try occasionally


Intrepid Penguin

Member Since: 12th May 2002
Total posts: 5635
Posted:I agree too!
im trying to get the local scene more enthused about having earlier spins, just for the interaction and teaching you can acheive whilst the sun is still shining! theres so much more fun to be had with the sharing of ideas, and you get to know ppl better as well! its a blessing, truly...

Currently on the right side up of the world.


Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:That is one thing that I'm really happy about in terms of what's becoming of the New York City crowd. I think we've all gone through our infancy of "Ohh look FIRE!" and now we're set on improving our craft in other directions. Most of our recent meetings and workshops have been focused on teaching others with practice poi. We've had mostly daytime meetings and with the weather getting better we'll be poiing in the park much more.

As for myself, I now see fire as "putting a tie on" in that I only use it when I really want to get formal and show something or perform. As for 99% of my poi nowadays, it's t-shirts and tennis balls.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

LuNcHbOx...(Aka. Nathan)-un-single
Location: beneath a cloak of self-tortur...
Member Since: 3rd Oct 2002
Total posts: 536
i can never be tired of fire...
i'm a total pyro!!!...

-LuNcHbOx, Aka. Nathan...Give a man to fish, and that man knows where to come for more fish...Teach a man to fish and you have just destroyed your market base...

Location: Massachusetts, US
Member Since: 30th Oct 2002
Total posts: 80
Posted:i somewhat agree.
of course we don't interrupt each other in mid burn, but afterwards when the person stops we'll ask and learn from each other.
we don't really have drummers ever, so its just this sort of meandering gathering with breaks of little or no fire. so it ends up being fire punctuated by sorta show and tell sessions.
we also only ever have about 8 people (at the absolute max), so maybe thats different. i don't know.
also we practice more than we get to do fire anyways, so it has yet to really grow old with me.


Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:I've only span with fire 3 times so far this year.
I really find that I enjoy the social aspect to it more than standing around in the dark watching balls of fire move around and speaking to someone whose face you can barely see.

Plus, spinning in the light means you can see exactly what people are doing when they're trying to show you a new move, and you can see when people are having trouble picking something up and go to help (this happens the other way around more often in my case )

It's not that I don't enjoy spinning fire anymore, rather that I'd prefer to finish off having a great time with like minded people by lighting up instead of basing my whole evening around it.

But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

Fire By Riz tm
Location: tampa fl usa
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 212
Posted:hey sunshine
I never bore with fire but sometimes i get tired of doing the same thing with it or just dont really feel the flame . I do enjoy watching other kinds of spinning stuff we have a girl here who does flags they are killer to watch.
but they even look better under the glow of the flame ::::::;laughs:::::::::;; I hope you get your smiling face back to fl soon .we mis you

I have been cursed with the imagination to envision it all

Posted:WEll - I think its all well and good to be able to do a hardcore trick, but I think the proof is in being able to pull it off while fire twirling.

I love twirling non-fire, as long as there is some music to dance to, and have been known to dance for many hours virtually nonstop.

I'm not good at twirling in front of people I dont know, so I fall down on the 'performance' aspect...

I think fire twirling requires more energy on the whole, than twirling without - and therefore is more tiring?



Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:that is interesting Josh... I think I partly agree with you fire is more tiring cause you sometimes do a whole nburn without a break, allthough I can practice daytime with music on fo a long while and will be just as tired...

is fire the "ultimate stage" of spinning ? should you consider you have nailed a move only if you have done it with fire ?

hmmm... it would make sense allthough like we were discussing with Dimitri and Dom,doing it with fire is one thing... doing it smoothly with or without fire is another thing...

very interested in having your opinion

shine on

"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"


Location: London
Member Since: 13th Dec 2000
Total posts: 2211
Posted:Well I must say I am a lazy good for nothings so light or dark I rarely work on new moves - just like dancing around and having a lark basically. I love playing with fire but I am always knackered after a burn - my adrenalin levels shoot through the roof! Rush!! Don't think I could sustain that for a whole night constantly. Yet on a night out dancing I can happily have my practice poi swirling around me for the whole night - 'specially if there is UV involved.

I like the PIP meets. You get there it's light - plenty of time for people to meet see one another and have the craic. And you don't feel like you are constantly on show - not too keen on having people watch me. Prolly why I am so keen to get my non poi friends spinning so they will get up and play with me instead of sitting around watching.

Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.

- W B Yeats

Location: Tampa, Fl
Member Since: 28th Mar 2001
Total posts: 309
Posted:i made the total discover last saturday when i got out to the beach with our crew here for the first time in 4 months...

maybe it is becuase it has been so long. fire is great, i still do not like glowsticks, but give me just regular poi and make them pretty colors and butterfly flags, how about that? the fire so much did not impress me last weekend. AND i dont like getting dirty!!!

thats just me being a snob though.



the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193

Fire is for show in my eyes. *shrug*
Spinning is for fun, whether it is old sneakers or something glowey...I just like to do it.
I don't need the fire for a good time and I think the fire does get in the way of getting to know someone.

That is what I loved about meeting a few of the HoPpers, we barely spun at all, and then it was actually in a show. The rest of the time we hung out, laughed, ate and occassionally went..."Hey can you help me with this?" It was a more honest exchange in my eyes.
I also think that it is easier to see move nuancess during the day, so I would rather get together in the day anyway.

And Shibaki....oh hells yes on the whole dirty thing! If someone could invent a set of clean fire wicks I think they would make a fortune here!

Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted:I dont think that fire is the 'ultimate stage' I think that the Ultimate Stage is where it doesnt matter what you are spinning, it all feels the same...or alternatively, perhaps the ultimate stage is where nobody pays any attention to what you are spinning, but rather its all about how you spin?

That reminds me of something my Sensei once told me;

Do a Kata 100 times,
you might start to see your opponents
Do a Kata 1000 times,
and other people will see your opponents.

I feel a bit like that with twirling - but on the whole, I think it depends on your whole view of what it is you are doing.

I still dont see how doing a trick on fire is easier than doing it without...after all, there is always a chance of pain with fire - this is far less likely when using happy fluffy poi


Location: Barnsley South Yorkshire
Member Since: 9th Mar 2003
Total posts: 18
Posted:Fire is fun there's no question, but if you want fun we do extream juggling start off passing clubs or balls between as many people as you want (start with a low number of items) then each take it in turn to add something to the pass ie shoes, irons etc (dont try ash trays, ive still got the scars) makes for alot of fun and if you try it with fire your heading to get burned. But im still at pyro at heart, you carn't beat nailing a trick for the first time with fire,

love and peace

life is a journey, if you dont enjoy it what's the point in making it!!!

Mr Petey
Location: Sunny Sheffield
Member Since: 17th Oct 2002
Total posts: 43
Posted:Fire is the most showy, but technically it's not the most difficult. the only trickyness is the extra physical effort (but you soon get over that with practice) and the fear factor.

As I started learning fire and non-fire simultaniously and played with fire alot as a kid it's never held a big fear for me. So in my case when it comes to learning new moves fire and other tailess poi are easier than tailed poi as they are much more forgiving of minor screwups. Tailed poi are more likely to become a huge tangled mess

When it comes to gatherings it'[s definatly easier to start in daylight - I've only been to a few PIPs so some people are still just shadowy outlines to me and I would like to get to know them better and maybe even find out what they look like! It also does not help when they are buried in winter clothes too


Posted:good point about the tails, Tail poi are definitely harder than non tail poi



Location: Paris, France
Member Since: 15th Jan 2001
Total posts: 356
Posted:I think they're 2 different things and complete each other very well.

To socialize, play, perfect the art, practice and learn new tricks alone or from others, daytime spinning is best. However, fire still mesmerizes me and gives me a hell of a rush. I never get to this trance-state when i spin zunis in the day.

Moreover, this art to me is more than just mastering tricks. As much as i love to get technical and learn new tricks, i really enjoy the performance aspect of spinning, i.e. putting something together that flows and feels graceful as opposed to a succession of tricks.

And i agree with Josh: executing a trick with fire is the confirmation that you can really do it well.

So in a perfect world, gatherings should start in the daylight so there's time for both things.



Location: Lancashire, UK
Member Since: 23rd Mar 2002
Total posts: 669
Posted:I span fire last week for the first time in about 4/5months & I'm still grinning from it

When I spin fire or beamers my concentration is focussed more on my poi and I use more energy than sock poi, but in return there's the whole adrenaline rush.

I wouldn't put either as better or harder than the other, just different. Fire is awesome, and doing it less often keeps the awe & respect in tact.

[ 30. March 2003, 20:15: Message edited by: FireMorph ]

.:* Moon Pixie *:.
.:* Moon Pixie *:.

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: .:*over the rainbow*:.
Member Since: 7th Apr 2002
Total posts: 3492
Posted:To me, a play day feels really different to a fire night and I appreciate both whole heartedly.

I love getting together with friends for a play day in the park... nutting out new moves, playing with new ideas and sharing in beautiful company

I love twirling fire at night... just getting lost in the dance of it, the fire swirling arround me and the glow and sound of the fire putting me in my own private bubble

for me, non fire twirling seems to be more friendly and interactive and fire twirling seems to be more internal and intermit.

Cass... I was thinking of taking up your advice and starting *Sun Fest* just in the arvo. before Moon Fest so people can come along for a day play and then stay on for the fire night so it'd just be once a month (like moonfest) but there is already juggle night on mondays at Southbank for something more regular... which I'm absolutely loving!

And on a slightly different note... I noticed how many people related the question to dance and music while spinning and it got me thinking about how music while twirling influences me.... We did a fire gig the other night where we could hardly hear the music... it felt *really* odd... it was like dancing without music... I realized how much I rely on music while fire twirling/dancing... if the music is high energy I put more energy into the dance of it..if it isn't... or I can't hear it... I can't... it feels odd... how does everyone else feel about this?... or is this too off topic for me to just slip in here...ooooops *lazy pixie who will not start her own thread*

*:...one day all the fairy fridges will be aligned and my pixie world will be complete...:*

Location: Laramie, Wyoming, USA
Member Since: 12th Mar 2002
Total posts: 38
Posted:I love the flame-I can't help it.

Still-It isn't so often that I get a chance to be with others and I agree taking time out to ask them to safety for me interupts conversation that I value so much more.

Also-without love of the dance itself, I would never be able to enjoy time spinning alone. This is a wonderful time for me to release energies that have bottled up inside of me.

For a nighttime perfomance nothing beats fire.
Ultimatly it is all about the dance.
The communion with nature and other beings.
Nothing beats the feeling of a choreographed performance or tandum performance where two or more dancers may inter-weave their art. This is an exceptional experience.

Just some of my ambient ramblings on the matter....
Now back to your regularly schedualled programme...


~~Every Object, Every Being, Is A Jar Full Of Delight...~~

Location: Mpls, MN, USA
Member Since: 29th Jan 2002
Total posts: 646
Posted:I had something simular happen with my leds, I went to see Jimmy Van M and the music was great and people were having fun, but I simply bored myself whenever I picked up my leds. I never got pumped to just release and have fun with them, they seemed to drag me down.

Yet afterwards I had a great 10 minute session in my room with the lights off listening to Radio 1 on my computer.

I probably just need to focus on myself more and ignore everybody around me. well not complete, don't want to hit them

Fuzzy Dice.......................................


Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:I just got my beamers a couple weeks ago and I think they're brilliant. No mess no fuss, night or day. Fire is a hassle sometimes. Lugging the fuel, the smell, the mess. I lit up last week for the first time in a while though and it was great.

Guess my point is that fire and non are both great but I think you'd be missing out in a way only swinging fire.

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.