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Forums > Help! > When Universities lie

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Page: 123
Irinus
enthusiast
Location: London
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 222
Posted:As you may, or may not know, I'm the former president of Balls! which is the University College London (UCL) juggling society that TinyPixie currently runs.

For the last two years (since the society grew greatly) we have been practicing in a room in UCL. It's a great venue with high ceilings, lots of space and good lighting which, as it turns out, is the ONLY suitable venue in the whole of UCL that we can meet in.

Over the summer, a big UCL cheese (who shall remain nameless for all our safety) decided that we, exclusively and solely amonst all UCL union societies, would no longer be allowed to use the room.

This person has since backed down a little and said that we can book the room, but only after 8pm (which is a c**p time for all involved).

This is a clearly discriminatory policy as no other group (let alone society) is being treated this way.


I'm guessing you all want to know his reasons which are (to the best of my knowledge):

1) That someone walking through the room (it doubles as a corridor) was hit by some poi (amazingly this person cannot be found, ditto the incident form which should report this) and the poier didn't apologise ubbcrying (we have never heard of this incident)

2) That it would bother people that were passing through UCL to go to other events (not true)

3) That it would be embarassing for He Who Shall Remain Nameless (HWSRN) to have us juggling when he is showing important people round the University (at 5.30pm to 7.30pm when we used to practice)

Unfortunately, our Union don't have much clout and don't seem to have any power to change this clearly discrimninatory policy.

I was looking for help on how we (especially TinyPixie) could go about changing things so that, at least, everyone has equal opportunities in booking these UCL rooms.

Particularly:

1) What's a good petition website in your experiences?
2) Who to target for their support i.e. I was thinking of trying to get as many professors as possible on our side, though I'd quite like to get people from other universities to give their opinion (though I don't want to scare HWSRN so much that he really puts his foot down)
3) How else would you recommend that we campaign without getting into too much trouble?


I'm open to all suggestions and happy to clarify any of the above.

Thanks


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Irinus
enthusiast
Location: London
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 222
Posted:Hola tia (I hope I didn't just swear at you)

The story has already featured in the October issue of the cheese grater magazine (though the article is now a little out of date and very slightly inaccurate (in my opinion)), and we will be in touch with the remaining media societies as soon as:

a) Nat has met / attempted to meet with the vice-provost (which might not make any further action necessary) and
b) I've got the petition, along with the rest of the campaign (i.e. Balls! Website ) up and running.

Thanks sooo much for the input though. I'm adding the link to that article to the Balls! frontpage as we speak!

btw, if I don't see you on Monday night, don't forget the talk at my building on Tuesday afternoon! I don't know why I want you to suffer with me (I don't know how good a speaker Maria is) but it'd be good if you could share my pain spank


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lilith_in_london
member
Location: floating about
Member Since: 29th Jun 2005
Total posts: 149
Posted:cool, i see you're waaay ahead smile nicely done! i hope whatshisface will meet with nat, it's so unfair that he's effectively changing our future with massive repercussions without even talking to a rep...

yay, will see you tuesday - you're right there's a potential for pain but even then at least I'm out of ich ubbrollsmile


c'est pas nous qui sommes la rue, c'est la rue ktanou!

1st official camden town (uk) meet 21st october! see the events bit

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Kathain_Bowen
Kathain_Bowen

Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Member Since: 24th Jan 2006
Total posts: 422
Posted:.... just a weird thought....

Any idea on why this HWSRN believes that the club reflects poorly on the school? Perhaps there is a particular area that could be more targetly addressed to sort of please all parties (-translation- make HWSRN shut up, and get you guys playing again!)


"So long and thanks for all the fish."

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:any hippy looking people?

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Pigeon_Wigeon
Pigeon_Wigeon

Say what?
Location: Surrey/Portsmouth
Member Since: 24th Dec 2004
Total posts: 4760
Posted:Hey guys!! I don't know how useful I can be but as a fellow President of a Juggle Soc there may be something I can do... dunno! Either way the way your being treated is clearly pants!! Have you got a commitee exec officer in your Union because they can be really useful when it comes to talking to big cheeses..

Your university should be proud of you!! Juggling Societies are an asset to any University!! They provide free/reasonably priced entertainment at Uni events!!


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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by: Brian:-)


This would stop idiots that are passing through from walking into people that are concentrating on what they are doing.



For those of us who are well used to walking through halls full of jugglers and spinners, it's easy to assume that everyone has our ability to slip through without incident.

Recently, at our juggling hall, one of the church people had to go into a back cupboard and get a white-board.

Watching her try to get through the hall gave me a real insight into just how difficult it is for non-jugglers/spinners to negotiate the hall.

We can look at a people doing various activities and pretty much instinctively know where a spinner is likely to move to, or where a club is likely to come out of a passing pattern etc, etc.

Non-jugglers/spinners have not developed that ability- it's genuinely difficult for them- they aren't 'idiots'.

A designated walkway is a great idea.

As is the jugglers/spinners of such spaces taking seriously the fact that non-jugglers/spinners have not had our experience and do not find it as easy as we do to walk across a hall full of practising people.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Pigeon_Wigeon
Pigeon_Wigeon

Say what?
Location: Surrey/Portsmouth
Member Since: 24th Dec 2004
Total posts: 4760
Posted:Thats true enough but I've had many people just walk straight into my path of poi even when I'm in a big open space.. there's plenty of room around me yet they walk straight at me so I stop spinning to make sure I don't hit them..

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MikefromGlos
MikefromGlos

Hitman
Location: Gloucester England
Member Since: 10th Jul 2006
Total posts: 985
Posted:Sounds like what ur saying is we have a more higher awareness of spacial movement so we should have a higher IQ proof spinners are more intellgant lol yay lol. only jokeing

he he i am mike the amazing gloscircus person who is mike.

Officaly an exception to the Poi Boys are Girls Thing

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:hehehe
is it funnier when they walk into the poi or when they scaddadle across the street to avoid you

maybe if you organize an event (secretly to get people to sign some sort of petition)

walkways important because it takes away an excuse for them not to allow you to do what you want, because you are taking precautions


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:comment on side topic re: idiots and dodging jugglers/spinners:



why would one attempt to walk *through* a hall filled with moving obstacles?



surely, if you are not an idiot, the obvious thing to do is to walk around the perimeter of the hall?





not saying this with context to this discussion - i'm just saying, juggler or no juggler, there are sensible ways to do things and then there is being a cretin.





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Irinus
enthusiast
Location: London
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 222
Posted:I think faithinfire has hit the nail on the head with:

 Written by:

any hippy looking people?



(the answer being yes! Many slightly red-eyed at that!).

Also, I think both Dave and Cole have a point about people getting through the hall. It's amazing the paths some people choose, even when there's a clear perimeter. Either way, we're going to have to buy some barriers as the Uni don't seem to provide them (despite owning about a million that only get wheeled out about twice a year!).

What the Uni does provide are poster boards. I'd like to see how much this would cost them to provide (in portering costs alone) for each of our meetings for a year (but I'm not that cruel to the nice porters).

It looks like we're going to have to dig into our funds pretty soon and fork out on some chain & post barriers (the cheapest I could find).

Keep the suggestions coming guys. I'm working on the whole 'making our society look really good and nice' thingy.

p.s. cole, just spotted the Tool signature. Nice cool . I can't help thinking of Simian / Bovril / other monkeys every time I hear it though!


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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted: Written by: coleman



comment on side topic re: idiots and dodging jugglers/spinners:



why would one attempt to walk *through* a hall filled with moving obstacles?



surely, if you are not an idiot, the obvious thing to do is to walk around the perimeter of the hall?





not saying this with context to this discussion - i'm just saying, juggler or no juggler, there are sensible ways to do things and then there is being a cretin.





cole. x





Sheffield juggling club is generally very crowded indeed- when it is full and I have to get from one end to another I often find the safest path is not round the edge of the hall, but is instead is a meandering path through the center.



If a hall is full of jugglers/spinners, going round the edge of it is not always the best option.



Given that i've been attending indoor juggling events for 15+ years and yet, at the 'Teapots' meets I will need full awareness to get through the hall and, even then, will fully expect to occasionally get hit, I really do think (in fact i know) that a non-juggler/spinner would have minimal chance of getting through the Teapots hall without being hit- regardless of their 'idiocy' level.



Now I don't know if the hall in question ever gets as full as the Sheffield Teapots hall, but I do feel that in this scenario of a juggling/spinning society facing prejudice/closure, it would probably be best to assume that, if some non-jugglers are finding it challenging to get through the hall, that they might actually have a point, rather than just dismissing them as 'idiots'?


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:yay i said something right

i think people are attracted to the challenge of moving past quickly moving objects


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Irinus
enthusiast
Location: London
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 222
Posted:The most annoying thing is that people getting through cloisters shouldn't even be an issue. When we originally booked the space, we were told that we could close the doors and didn't have to let anyone through after 6pm! (Given that there are alternative paths through the Uni)



Being a furry juggling society, we did no such thing as it's not very kind to make people walk outside in the cold when they could be dodging jugglers (who have tried to leave them a gangway).



Anyway, that option has, I think(I haven't checked), been repealed, but it's still another fact in our arsenal (if challenged on whether or not people could get through in the past) to say that we were under no obligation to let people through. I hope it doesn't come to that though.


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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted: Written by: onewheeldave



Now I don't know if the hall in question ever gets as full as the Sheffield Teapots hall, but I do feel that in this scenario of a juggling/spinning society facing prejudice/closure, it would probably be best to assume that, if some non-jugglers are finding it challenging to get through the hall, that they might actually have a point, rather than just dismissing them as 'idiots'?





as i clearly stated, i wasn't speaking in the context of this discussion.

i have already expressed that, to strengthen their case, it is pretty much essential for the jugglesoc to have a clear walkway to provide a safe passage for people not attending the society.





dave's 'meandering path through the centre' may well be the best option for getting from one side of the hall to the other if you don't want to disturb anyone by saying 'excuse me' and can call on 15+ years worth of experience to predict where the jugglers/spinners are likely to move.



however, if you are trying to cross a hall full of people doing an activity you're not even vaguely familiar with, i maintain that 'around the edge' is the most logical and sensible solution.



if i were to wander into a hall where any physical activity as taking place (e.g. martial arts, dance, gymastics) the last thing i would do would be to try and negotiate a path through the middle - i'd walk around the edge and say 'excuse me' if there were people in my way.



if i were to try and walk through the middle, i'd totally expect people to call me an idiot for doing so.



maybe i'm just mental shrug





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Irinus
enthusiast
Location: London
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 222
Posted:Just to keep everyone up to date, we are currently waiting for TinyPixie to email HWSRN (or his secretary) for a meeting. We'll let you know how it goes smile

As we seem to be losing a lot of momentum on this, I'll go ahead and set up the petition.


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TinyPixie
TinyPixie

enthusiast
Location: in the clouds...
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 394
Posted:I've writen the email! I'm just waiting to send it on monday, cos I didn't have ANY time at all this week to meet up with HWSRN, damn medical degrees getting in the way of LIFE!! (and by life, i do of course mean juggling).

I'll let everyone know what's happening!

Ooh! is anyone coming to next Synergy?

Big hugs and kisses you gorgeous HoPpy people!


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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:we'll be there nat biggrin

(and might see you tomorrow? - come round our house and sneeze lots hug )


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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TinyPixie
TinyPixie

enthusiast
Location: in the clouds...
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 394
Posted:yay! Ooh! sorry I missed yesterday! i only checked this this morning frown How was it?

Love and hugs! Mua! kiss hug


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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:good luck with the meeting miss nat smile



in order to stop people walking into spitz-ers we put up a barrier.



not a proper expensive tensa-barrier, but lots of stripey barrier tape wound round pillars and bollards in a haphazard and slightly different way each week.



its good fun, makes you feel all official and important when you do it, and if someone ducks under a barrier put up for their safety THEN walks through the middle of a bunch of jugglers THEN gets hit THEN gets upset THEN they quite indisputibly are an eedgit.



We generally get an eedgit ooh, one in three spitzes i'd say but their upsetness rarely extends beyond a dirty look.

smile


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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TotalEclipse
Member
Location: Nr Petersfield
Member Since: 26th Aug 2006
Total posts: 120
Posted:Just read all this...best of luck! It'd wind me up no end if someone was trying to do that to me (not that I have a juggling soc or anything, but I do plan to join one when I go to uni next year....)

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Irinus
enthusiast
Location: London
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 222
Posted:Update: TinyPixie emailed HWSRN who referred her on to the guy that manages room bookings.

ALthough it is fairly candy-assed to duck out of the meeting, we've always wanted to get the other people on the room bookings committee on our side, and this way we can do it without making it look like we're going behind HWSRN's back smile

Hopefully good things will happen from here.

Plan B: In case good things don't happen, I'm still writing the petition text. Please help me by going here and helping me edit the petition text.

'till next time hug


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Irinus
enthusiast
Location: London
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 222
Posted:Ok people, a wonderful and lovely person (who shall remain nameless until he/she knows if he/she wants to be associated with this project) has set up this wiki so that everyone can join in with helping me write the petition text biggrin

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TinyPixie
TinyPixie

enthusiast
Location: in the clouds...
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 394
Posted:Aww! He/she truly IS a wonderful person! I LOVE YOUUUUU!!! kiss hug ubblove kiss hug

Hmmm, I'm a bit annoyed about being fobbed off by HWSRN, but anywaayyy.... I'll let y'all know what happens.

Thanks again for all your support guys! You really are the most amazingly lovely and wonderful set of people I have ever met! kiss kiss kiss

Much love! MUA!


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Mascot
Mascot

enthusiast

Member Since: 20th May 2002
Total posts: 301
Posted:I've been a little transfixed by this thread

This does seem to be a problem that can be solved by some determined buerocracy and I'm impressed that you're actually doing that. The important thing about the petition is probably to get it started, because it will take time to build.

I'd love to sign it- I'm the ex-president of the Oxford uni juggling society though I don't know if that makes a diffrence. The current president would be happy to sign it too.

It's hard to know how adverserial to be, calling upon freedom of information legislation and anti-discrimination legislation seems excessive. Still that legislation is there for a reason and it may be that bringing out the big guns is the only way to get anything done. It should definitely be a last resort though.

It would be amazing if you could beat the beurocrats at their own game.


Walls may have ears but they don't have eyes

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Irinus
enthusiast
Location: London
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 222
Posted:My FOI request came back with nothing but I haven't given up. I think you're right about the petition, I'll get it started but we're still waiting to hear back from room bookings big cheese frown

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Romance
newbie

Member Since: 18th Dec 2006
Total posts: 1
Posted:Whilst at UCL, I had the pleasure of being involved in the day-to-day workings of Balls!. On hearing the news that Balls! no longer has the freedom to use the rooms it needs, I was going to write an indignant diatribe to counter the affrontery of this intolerance. However, I recalled having heard of another UCL alumnus who felt much more strongly about the matter than myself, and who had a concinnity of language I could only hope for. I take the liberty of reproducing his words here:

Intolerance is itself a form of violence and an obstacle to the growth of a true democratic spirit. Mohandas Gandhi (Laws, UCL, 1889)

Is this what UCL has become?


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Irinus
enthusiast
Location: London
Member Since: 19th Apr 2006
Total posts: 222
Posted:yes frown

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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:grrrr..... this whole thing makes me so angry! Maybe ex-members could send in e-mails to help you?

Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:an idea just ocurred to me... is it only Balls! that is banned right? so make another society, i.e the OM society (OM for Object Manipulation: but hopefully they'll think it's something tantric) then hold closely supervised, carefully arranged, 'manipulation sessions' at 5p.m in the cloisters.

Btw, send me some details, I think I might write a letter to the Alumni about this


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi

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Page: 123

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