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gάrbǿaddict
521 posts
Location: Bristol / London / Norwich / Chennai, India (UK) (...


Posted:
Hiya. There has been alot of talk recently about fuel. What is safe, what is good. I use parrafin (Kerosene) for poi, staff and breathing but as everyone knows it tastes terrible and is very smokey and dirty. I am lookiong for a fairly good/cheap alternative. Many people have recomended Shellsol T and Fire water.Problem, fire water is very expensive and I can't find anywhere in the uk That sells Shellsol T. CAN ANYONE HELP.------------------Are your ears open because the ears and not the eyes are the windows to the soul. Listen. Please Listen

be excellent to each other: safe:


PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
Hey Garbo...I use a combination of lamp oil and Kerosene for my torches. It is a bit less sooty and smokey. Coleman or White Gas is also fine on torches for outdoor use but mainly it should come down to what you feel comfortable and safe working with.I use lamp oil and then dip in Kero for torches.I will say that as far as fire Breathing goes, the sooty bad tasting nature of Kero might not be wonderful but it is worth the lack of risks. I have never had a back burn happen from blowing with Kero and for that reason alone I wouldn't try anything else.Besides, I have this feeling that no matter what you use it isn't going to taste like chocolate! grinBest to you!------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


Purple Dragonmember
23 posts
Location: Wellington


Posted:
Pegosil (i think that is how it is spelt - sorry terrible speller) is good for breathing as it pretty much has no taste but it is a little more expensive than Kero

Posted:
I hope you're not talking about blowing fire with white gas/Coleman's/camp fuel. White gas has a very high flash point. It's very likely to blow back and burn your mouth and face. Most of the kids in my neck of the woods use lamp oil. Some blow with a combination of grain and olive oil. Some have had the same blow back problem with straight grain. Diana

.draevonBRONZE Member
member
92 posts
Location: Androgen, Australia


Posted:
White gas actually has a low flash point which is what makes it so dangerous. The flash point is the lowest temperature at which a liquid can form an ignitable mixture in air near the surface of the liquid, so the higher the flash point, the less likely the fuel is to burst into flames when it comes into contact with a flame.Here are some flash points for comparision value:Shellsol T: 55CKerosene: 43CShellite / White Gas: Around -40CHence the danger fire breathing, or redipping hot equipment in Shellite. These flashpoints were taken froma variety of different MSDS's so their accuracy may not be 100% ... but they help give a rough guide.raevon.

Posted:
*Low* flash point. Sorry, wrong sematics. Another reason for no open flames or smoking near fuel dump. wink

PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
Diana,To clarify my post I said I use Coleman?White Gas on my torches...and BTW Draevon we always redunk hot torches in it and have never had it ignite on us. You simply must be certain the sparks are out first...which we do. I would NEVER blow with White Gas or recommend anyone try it. PLEASE give me more credit than that! winkThe second paragraph in my post said I always use Kero to breathe with and have never had it blow back..which is worth the bad taste in my book.Didn't mean to confuzzle you!!!! grin------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


Posted:
Sorry, sister, no offense. No, I didn't think that's what you recommended. I just wanted to make sure it was clear to everyone. Diana

Rainmember
69 posts
Location: Melbourne,Vic. Aust.


Posted:
Diana, when u say that around your neck of the woods people use a mix of olive oil and grain. what did u mean by grain and would u be able to specify mix quantities. as i have recently stopped blowing fire due to the fact that all of the fuels that i know of can cause cancer. this sounds like it could be a possible sollution to the problem. thanks. Rain.

gάrbǿaddict
521 posts
Location: Bristol / London / Norwich / Chennai, India (UK) (...


Posted:
I asume that grain is grain alcohol. that shit is rank. you don't get fuel poisoning is you swallow it you get drunk. If you do use it then it gives a really poor flame. It dosn't cause cancer but it dosn't look as good as using when you use paraffin.peace outgarbo tongue

be excellent to each other: safe:


sandmanmember
65 posts
Location: Brighton, England


Posted:
Has anyone in the UK ever seen Paraffin for sale?! I've been looking all over for weeks and nobody stocks it! I took to using white spirit instead, but from everything I've read I gather this isn't a great idea. The burn doesn't last anything like as long as I want, and I'm a little nervous of dunking hot wicks in white spirit!Anyone got any idea?

Annie Cmember
40 posts
Location: London, UK


Posted:
SandmanI went to B & Q yesterday and bought 2 litres of Kerosene (called Parasene at B@Q) for about 4 notes.....Check it out!!! You can do it when you B@Q it!!!!PS: I have not yet tried it so I will give you low down in a couple of days.....[This message has been edited by Annie C (edited 08 August 2001).]

mikeybmember
93 posts
Location: Oxford, UK


Posted:
sandman,Yup, I've seen paraffin for sale.If you go to the likes of Homebase they sell a product branded 'parasene' - this is a variant of paraffin/kerosene optimised for heaters - basic properties are the same but it burns really hot. I mean, it's OK for poi / staffs, but it's REALLY hot.But for paraffin you want a 'proper' old-fashioned hardware store, you know the dark, dingy, dusty place on the wrong side of town full of screws and bolts and washers and wire and nails and timber and weird scary sharp angle brackets and lumphammers and bradawls and bit-and-brace drills, and bottles of strange noxious solvents, with Mr & Mrs ScaryTroll behind the counter and a dog asleep in the middle of the floor. And stuiff hanging from the ceiling.You must have seen the place. Every town has one, somewhere.mikeyB

Posted:
Heyla All,I've only recently become addicted to fire poi and fire work in general. I was wondering if anyone has looked into theatrical fuel sources. There is a company in NY that offers a bunch of WONDERFUL supplies for special effects. Like...Torch Fuel Specially formulated for hand-held torch effects wicked lamps, objects emitting fire. Cool burn. SMOKELESS. Great for theatre studios, conventions, interior devices and effects. Approved by the New York City Fire Department. Zellene Fuel A gelled fuel for a variety of applications where a clean, smokeless, low volatility flammable medium is required. Superb for body burn techniques. Directly applied to ZEL JEL without run away or slip problemsI was wondering if anyone has worked with Gel fuels. Here is there site if you want to check them out.https://www.zeller-int.com/

pjmember
277 posts
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA


Posted:
Time to plug my favorite fuel yet again: https://www.clear-lite.com/Easy
to light, long burning, no smoke, no smell, little soot, and not outragously expensive. Makes great fire blasts, though I have no idea of its toxicity.-p.

PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
Torch Fuel is actually fairly toxic. It's safety factor for theater use is that it is good for large building use and fr props that need to be seen from a distance, like torches on stage for Phantom and such things. Close contact for prolonged exposure is not recommended. Gel fuel, while great for theatrical displays, and for us I am thinking in terms of sculptures and such, will come off your swinging toy when you do a wrap or thwack yourself and will continue burning, unlike Kero or white gas which will burn itself out after a second or two unless it catches your clothes (very rare except in cases of wearing the wrong material). In this respect I am thinking it might be good for trailing as long as there is a cloth to wipe it with (as I imagine it would just keep burning on the hand). Hmmmm...I smell and experiment in my future.
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Huzzah to the theater education! And my mother said it would be useless! Anyway, I want to put in a reminder in here that just because a fire department says it's good for one thing does not mean it applies safely to everything. They are trained to put fires out and to approve what they concider safe fires for venues. They rarely get to see the likes of us. When I went to my fire department I had to explain to them why I use the fuels I do, since they were suggesting ones that would've hurt/killed me. Once I explained things more they agreed, thought I was nuts, but agreed. And I earned their support and respect because I was educated. I am also working with a well respected chemist on some new fuel ideas. I had to explain the whole flash point and proximity of what I do in order for him to fully understand what I am looking for. He is now very excited about the challenge and I should be getting initial results in a couple months. What i am getting at as people who are the "authorities" in fire and fuel don't understand that we have specific needs that have to be met in order for it to be safe for us as well. They know what is safe for the air, for the buildings, what is best for pyrotechnic use but not for close contact.PJ, I am sorry to sound preachy but, I would strongly suggest that before you encourage people to use anything you fully research it. Poisoning yourself is one thing, but encouraging others to unknowingly do the same is not safe, especially when so many fuels will acheive the same effect.Experimentation and research is all I can say.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...https://www.pyromorph.com

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


sandmanmember
65 posts
Location: Brighton, England


Posted:
Thx Annie, I tried B&Q before but they said they didn't stock paraffin. I'll try again and ask for parasene. And mikeyb, yes we have one of those shops! An uncannily accurate description in fact. I'll try there too!Cheers.

Annie Cmember
40 posts
Location: London, UK


Posted:
Oooh OK Mikey BI am now worried about using the Parasene....But I guess anything is going to be really hot.....Hmmm....should I be worried!!I used it last night and all seemed OK!Annie C

Axismember
171 posts
Location: Bristol, UK


Posted:
Hey Sandman, you could also try petrol stations, the rural ones are best, farmers sometimes use paraffin.But your best bet is ye olde dusty hardware shoppe.Axis.

Chrismember
11 posts
Location: Oxford, England


Posted:
My juice of choice is lamp oil - available at b&q and probably the afformentioned crusty nuts & bolts shop - it doesn't smell much, gives off little smoke and i buy it for 3 squid a litre (quite expensive)

gάrbǿaddict
521 posts
Location: Bristol / London / Norwich / Chennai, India (UK) (...


Posted:
Have never tried half of this stuff
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will have to start buying he he he.peace outgarbo
Non-Https Image Link

be excellent to each other: safe:


CAINED-AND-UNABLEmember
214 posts
Location: Manchester


Posted:
Garbs.check this out.up here in manchester i go to a small, greasy diy shop.The fuel is called "pre-pack parrafin"its 2.50 for 4 litres. and burns with out smoke or much smell for ages. still tastes not much good, but hey,,,, small price to pay for art
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A doctor friend of mine assures me its harmless so, i trust him. even though his motto is: "start the day with a 'J'
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"anyway, i've never had any touble with it and it in over 2 years. so i'm happy.oh appart from the odd burps after fire breathing a lot but hey.

s-p-l-a-tmember
383 posts
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia


Posted:
Just wanted to mention some stuff.. any doctor who says start the day witha J shouldn't be a doctor. Unless you are his close friend and he knows your medical history and families history of illnesses. And even then that's a big stretch. I used to smoke an ounce in two days until I saw a few 'raver' friends fall down through their mental plugholes. The 'odd' burps are a sign that at the very least your stomach (and most likely your liver) are at least suffering from the fire breathing. (I don't know many that don't get at least this..)It may be a small price to pay for now, however I felt the need to say to people to understand these aren't just 'funny' things that happen - there is a reason for everything our bodies tell us. Who knows what *long-term* effects of fire breathing with these kind of fuels are? On the thousands of different kinds of bodies that do it? The only way we can make these choices is if our heads are screwed on right and we use common sense and informed decision-making. And read the fuels MSDS before we use them. It's a relief to know there are sane people that do it - its kind of scary to think that lots of people don't. Thought those went without saying but decided to say it again 'cause I care.

The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King


Blackbirdmember
337 posts
Location: London UK


Posted:
Hey, simple question, are Kero and Meths miscible?Don't think they are, but haven't got any meths to try... if they are, of course, it makes coloured flames a lot easier
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Oh and some petrol stations have paraffin dispensers, which are generally very cheap... i get mine for 1.86 / gallon (4.5 litres) - bargain!(what's up with the signs on this site anyway...)------------------"O! for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention." - William ShakespeareCheck out my Online Gallery! Å Ĉ К я

x X x Ĉ К я x X x


miggyzmember
1 post
Location: Rusthall, Kent, UK


Posted:
1.86 a gallon!!!!! Wahey that is cheap, I thought Bobs DIY was cheap (Camden Road, Royal Tunbridge Wells!) was good, but you're way ahead. I did try petrol stations around here, but they thought I was mad. ah... I am mad hoguh aren't I if I want to spin flaming lumps of kevlar wick around my head at high speed..... !

MiggyzAnyone seen my wombat?


4d1c3member
61 posts
Location: nsw australia


Posted:
hey i live in aus so i ahve alot of trouble finding good shops since every one is some were else and suggesets stuff i cant get i use kero i just get it from grocery shops

the risk is the rush


Jedimember
11 posts
Location: New Zealand


Posted:
i use a fuel called "peagusol 3440 special"don't eva use the stuff called "pegusol" that is white gas or fuellite it is leathalyeah that and or kero are the best the first tastes ok and is a very clean flamecool~Jedi------------------May the force be with you

May the force be with you


sunbeamSILVER Member
old hand
1,032 posts
Location: Madrid, United Kingdom


Posted:
MikeyB: good description. You should be a writer if you're not one already. Blackbird: where is the garage you get your paraffin at? I live in London and have been looking for a cheap source. CheersSunbeam
Non-Https Image Link
------------------Life in the circus ain't easy but the folks on the outside don't know yeah well the tent goes up and the tent goes down and all that they see is the show and the ladies on the horses look so pretty and the lions are looking real mad and some of the clowns are happy and some of the clowns are sad. Welcome to the freakshow.. here we go (Freakshow by Ani di Franco)

"I don't take drugs. I am drugs" - Salvador Dali

sunny


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
Hey kids, keep in mind that this post was started over a year ago and was idle for a good 6 months. Most people are long since gone. Keep that in mind when asking and answering questions... Most of the names at the top are well before my time even...

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


CharlesBRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand


Posted:
Jedi, it might pay to edit your spelling of Pegasol 3440 special...It's my choice of fuels too, but there are lots of other fuels out there with simlar names and we don't want anyone getting confused if we can help it.Cheers man...------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?


s-p-l-a-tmember
383 posts
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia


Posted:
I don't know if I wrote this somewhere before... so if I did ignore this okay?I saw a thing on the news a little while ago now that said that these lamps they were using in Indonesia somewhere exploded.See, they had lamp oil in them, and all was dandy for many months/years. Then someone topped the lamps up with kerosene (while they weren't lit of course) .. and at nighttime when they lit the lamps they actually exploded. Leaving all these villagers injured... (bits of broken glass everywhere etc) ... In short.. it said it was an unpredictable mixture between the two substances. I can't remember the entire conclusions they came to, 'cause at the time I was rushing out the door.I did think it was interesting though...

The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King


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