i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
Written by: stout
Rouge, I too was wondering when people were going to start talking about offering apprenticeships in these arts, it's the next logical step if one is opposed to freelancers just winging it.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Written by: Rouge Dragon
At risk of everyone hating me i'm going to ask something.
But I feel that what you are saying is a bit elitist and gives no rise for people trying to break into the industry.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
Getting to the other side
Only three things are certain: Death, Taxes, and that England will not win back the Ashes in this lifetime.
Written by: Jai, from the very first post in this thread
So we need to stand up against the corporations who make millions of dollars each year and take advantage of our unorganised artform. They will tell you that they are doing you a favour and trying to give you 'experience', but all they want is free entertainment.
Written by: NYC
I do not believe that more than 1% of the firespinning community fits into category 3. I do not believe that such things as unions and self regulation make any sense in an industry that is 99% hobbyists.
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
Written by: Mojojo
So, if performing on a voluntary basis (ie, unpaid) is such a bad thing, and takes away work from paid performers who are trying to learn a living from their profession...
I should feel awfully guilty about working for free - in Thailand recently, building houses for tsunami victims, and a couple of years ago, giving up six months of time when I could otherwise have been being paid for doing something, volunteer teaching English in a poor rural Village in the north of Thailand.
Shame on me for taking that work away from anyone.
Is there a difference? Not that much. I would perform on a voluntary basis, if there was a good reason for it being for free.
Written by: UmbiliciformCraterOnFace
As I have stated before, and I strongly believe many others follow roughly the same guidelines, I will not perform for free unless:
a) It is for family
b) It is for friends who are other fire spinners
c) It is for charity
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by: NYCWritten by: Rouge Dragon
At risk of everyone hating me i'm going to ask something.
But I feel that what you are saying is a bit elitist and gives no rise for people trying to break into the industry.
I don't think anything we've said would prevent a total noobie from LEARNING the right things to do and then doing them. Whether that's safe performing technique or getting insurance or anything else. There's obviously a level of experience that everyone should achieve before performing but I don't think it's elitist since I would think anyone that tried and practiced would be able to achieve that level.
I can't agree with it being 'elitist' because I don't think anyone here is excluding the 'non elite.'
We can call it 'safe' because we want to exclude dangerous people or we can call it 'professional' if we want to exclude unprofessional people.
Frankly, I have no problem excluding dangerous spinners. I don't think it's eliteist because it's not difficult to gain the skills needed to meet the criteria we seem to be setting.
And Dave, I think the f!re bre4thing arguement is connected to this discussion but could easily derail it into one of the many FB discussions that exist.
Do a search.
[Kidding, I mean let's not get bogged down in FB discussions]
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by:
...in an effort to get something together before the inevitable fire accident that leads to the goverment putting legislation in place- what would those things be?
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
Written by: MiG
The question still remains as to how someone, say they've been spinning for three years, are safe and all that, 'breaks in' to the professional market.
Let's hypothesise- pretend i'm a good, safe spinner. I've been going to meetings and fests for 5 years. I know almost all there is to know about safety, and i've got the best public liability insurance money can buy. I want to start doing paid performances, but there's too many people out there that have been performing pro for as long as i've been spinning, and have a name up as 'the one(s) to call'.
According to this thread, i can't perform free to get a name up, i can't charge less than the established spinners because i'll be undercutting them, and common sense says no company is going to hire an unknown for the same rate as 'a name'.
What do you do?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Written by: simian
As I have stated before, and I strongly believe many others follow roughly the same guidelines, I will not perform for free unless:
a) It is for family
b) It is for friends who are other fire spinners
c) It is for charity
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by: MynciWritten by: NYC
I do not believe that more than 1% of the firespinning community fits into category 3. I do not believe that such things as unions and self regulation make any sense in an industry that is 99% hobbyists.
What like the Football association or the Governing bodies of Sport fishing?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
Written by:
if you do a gig for free i think you are obliged to be as crap as you possibly can - turn up late, be rude to everyone you meet and make sure you set at least one part of the venue on fire.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Written by: NYC
If you want to incorporate any of the above ideas you either need to increase demand or decrease supply.
Ways of increasing demand:
contacting promoters, organizers
advertizing
doing free shows to promote paid ones
etc...
Written by: NYC
Ways of decreasing supply:
Forcing out unqualified spinners
Written by: NYC
Not teaching others (teaching others is completely stupid if you're trying to market yourself. You're creating your own competition.)
Keeping valuable information from newbies
Forming a union and forcing non-union workers to quit
Written by:
Focusing on increasing demand seems both easier and more ethical.
Written by: NYC
Most of the arguements above seem to be focusing on decreasing supply.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by: Coleman
if you do a gig for free i think you are obliged to be as crap as you possibly can - turn up late, be rude to everyone you meet and make sure you set at least one part of the venue on fire.
remember to point out as you leave that you get what you pay for.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Written by: coleman
if you do a gig for free i think you are obliged to be as crap as you possibly can - turn up late, be rude to everyone you meet and make sure you set at least one part of the venue on fire.
remember to point out as you leave that you get what you pay for.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
Using the keywords [effect * performing] we found the following existing topics.